Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #7

[IWannaKnow]

The news articles I have read state that MS fell down a flight of stairs. The photos of the staircase on the net show a U shaped staircase with two flights of stairs and one landing, 11 treads each, very thickly carpeted (not marble). The only thing that my mind can imagine is that MS fell down the stairs and perhaps hit his head on that mirror/painting frame that LE removed (perhaps a big, ornate metal or wood frame with square or even just big corners, etc) hanging on the landing of the stairwell. I can't figure any other way for a healthy child to be brain dead after a fall on those stairs. I had the impression he had head trauma, not a broken neck. If that was what happened, they might have cut out the carpet under or around the incident to reconstruct exactly how the fall occurred to attempt to determine if it was an accidental fall or not.... IMO of course.

hdear: Ohhhhh. Just had a thought, hope it is incorrect. Hope that wasn't a big portrait of RN (if indeed my scenario could be correct). :dunno:

 

[Quester]

Originally Posted by Quester ... added for clarity ...

Hi MyBelle
I’m curious, you seem to believe that RN intentionally, willfully, maliciously harmed MS.
Why?
What is your theory?
TIA

My theory is that she was asleep or otherwise preoccupied with her own interests to pay attention to the child. I really have no idea. All I know is the outcome was preventable.

Child endangerment happens every day, unfortunately, by those who place themselves ahead of the welfare of a child.

What has led you to believe that RN placed herself ahead of the welfare of the child?

If you don't know the answer to the previous question, then how can you be so certain that the outcome was preventable?

TIA

 

[believe09]

The knots have to be the answer in a major way imo-either she could have tied them herself, or she couldnt have.

 

[time]

My theory is that she was asleep or otherwise preoccupied with her own interests to pay attention to the child. I really have no idea. All I know is the outcome was preventable.

Child endangerment happens every day, unfortunately, by those who place themselves ahead of the welfare of a child.

So, you know that Rebecca placed herself before the welfare of Max basically and that is why he is now dead?

 

[Quester]

Originally Posted by Quester ... added for clarity ...
Thank you for your clarification.

I understand your thoughts on negligence but was Maxie in need of constant surveillance?

If not, most parents/care-givers give some leeway/freedom in the family home to a child of 6 especially when accompanied by a 14 year old older sibling.

And, unfortunately, tragic accidents can and do happen.

Supervision of children is the law. It's not a teen sibling's responsibility to ensure safety, it is the adult in charge. If you disagree, feel free to write your elected officials and complain.

What leads you to believe that RN wasn't supervising the child?

Was Maxie a special needs child in need of constant surveillance?

TIA

 

[time]

I could see DS accusing JS and telling him this is all his fault for allowing that woman to take care of their little boy and I could see her telling him "she killed my baby!" I could see her saying "how could you allow this to happen...I trust you...and you let her kill my baby!"

Sometimes I feel like I am really in tune with people's emotions, and like I understand what they feel in certain situations. I put myself her in her shoes.

To me this was a crime of passion -- in the heat of pure rage and anger. 1 + 1 = 2.

That was my train of thought about it also.

 

[Carioca]

That was my train of thought about it also.

I ditto that! Have been there, had this happen to me (my very wealthy boyfriend's ex-wife left their daughter's ER bedside in middle of night, went to our residence, luckily I wasn't there, and proceeded to slash all my clothing and belongings with a knife and scissors, broke photo frames, everything). Even though it was she who left their marriage and she had already remarried, she was extremely jealous of me, needed to be the alpha woman in his life, and distraught at the seriousness of their daughter's condition, needed to regain control of something in her life, thus she directed her anger at me. BTW I was home alone when the daughter became so ill, and it was I who took daughter to the hospital.

I have no doubt her intention that night was to harm me (she had a key to our residence; their 3 children lived with us and my BF felt she should be able to have access to them at any time...). Throughout my 5 year relationship with my BF, I let it me known to my family and friends that if anything strange ever happened to me, they would know she was responsible. I finally had no choice but to end the relationship. :banghead:

This is why I became utterly intrigued with this case. So many across the Internet have commented that a distraught mother would never leave her child's bedside. Due to my personal experience, I beg to differ. I am not accusing nor implying here (hmmm, well...), simply sharing my experience while waiting and waiting and waiting for what I hope and pray, in the event LE deems RZ's death is a homicide, that justice will be served.

OK, while I'm at it: as to the suicide scenario, it's a no brainer RZ felt horrible, distraught, devastated, felt at least some way responsible (if only I had, what if...), so maybe the pain WAS too unbearable and she felt there was only one solution. That is understandable. That is believable. But her M.O. -- nude, outside, hands bound behind her back, feet bound. Not believable. Why? IMHO Good ole common sense.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I think the fact that an Asian woman allegedly hung herself while naked is the biggest sticking point for me, in connection with the tied feet. I don't know that this has been posted (probably so and I missed it....sorry) but I found it interesting:

http://www.mwaf.org.mm/Activities/Paper Read/Eng3.pdf
Adorable Customs and Traditions of Myanmar Women
Author
Dr. Khin Aye
Professor (Head)
Department of Myanmar
Yangon University

Myanmar Women look after their husbands just as they look after their parents when they were young. They share housework and duties with their husbands, hand in hand when they become housewives. When they get children, they bring them up systematically, preventing them from doing bad things, making them do good things, cultivating them to be educated, providing them investment and marrying them off as good parents should.

This was how Myanmar women abided by the traditional moral codes.

BBM

It is obvious that Myanmar women were always raised to be ashamed and afraid of sinning and exposing oneself, the two things that guard the world, which preserve the virtue and moral code of Myanmar women. The traditions which Myanmar people have cherished through the periods are obvious.

Also this:
http://www.mwaf.org.mm/Activities/Paper Read/Eng8.pdf
Rights of Myanmar Women Endowed by Myanmar Customs and Traditions

A significant trait and an inherent character of a Myanmar woman is her modesty and her sense of propriety maintained through shame and fear of sinning.

http://www.icundv.com/vesak2011/panel4/12KawamotoFINAL.pdf

3. Suicide from the Theravada Buddhist perspective
3-(1) Consideration in the Theravada principles
BBM

On the contrary, how does the Theravāda Buddhist define the case of suicide? In Myanmar, for example, they are generally afraid that one suicidal deed will results in five hundred suicides repeated in one’s future rebirths. It is not merely one of groundless fo lk beliefs but has a substantial reason connected to the Buddhist texts. Matakabhatta-jātaka22, unlike the compassionate mortal practice of Bodhisatta, instead it warns of the kammic fruition of evil deeds. The story is: a Brahmin in his past time had killed a goat to be offered at a ritual. Due to the retribution of even the single evil deed, he had to be reborn as a goat and had his head cut off five hundred times.23 That makes suicide interpreted as an unwholesome action (akusala kamma) equated with the taking of life (pānā��ipāta).

I cannot imagine her choosing to hang herself in the nude. She would have had to consider herself beyond guilty to want to do something like that. If MS's fall were truly an accident, I can't imagine her going to those lengths, even if she did feel guilty. IMO of course.

 

[jjenny]

I dont think anyone can say it isnt likely when over 20% of females choose this method.

IMO

20 % females might chose this method, but are they naked, outside, with hands bound behind back and feet bound (using an extension cord, no less)? I don't think so. Even the articles that claimed that similar cases of suicide happened in the past, haven't actually came up with anything quite the same. Like others already pointed out, she is an Asian female, in her photos her clothing doesn't suggest she was an exhibitionist. So why was she hanging outside in a completely nude state? Especially if supposed motive for it is guilt over the child's injuries?

 

[jjenny]

where have you read that they didn't do the reenactment? thanks the only article i've seen on a reenactment says that they were planning to do one, but didn't give any confirmation one way or another.

I don't remember exactly in what article, but LE decided not to do it, and said they will relay on forensics instead.

 

[scorekeeper]

I ditto that! Have been there, had this happen to me (my very wealthy boyfriend's ex-wife left their daughter's ER bedside in middle of night, went to our residence, luckily I wasn't there, and proceeded to slash all my clothing and belongings with a knife and scissors, broke photo frames, everything). Even though it was she who left their marriage and she had already remarried, she was extremely jealous of me, needed to be the alpha woman in his life, and distraught at the seriousness of their daughter's condition, needed to regain control of something in her life, thus she directed her anger at me. BTW I was home alone when the daughter became so ill, and it was I who took daughter to the hospital.

I have no doubt her intention that night was to harm me (she had a key to our residence; their 3 children lived with us and my BF felt she should be able to have access to them at any time...). Throughout my 5 year relationship with my BF, I let it me known to my family and friends that if anything strange ever happened to me, they would know she was responsible. I finally had no choice but to end the relationship. :banghead:

This is why I became utterly intrigued with this case. So many across the Internet have commented that a distraught mother would never leave her child's bedside. Due to my personal experience, I beg to differ. I am not accusing nor implying here (hmmm, well...), simply sharing my experience while waiting and waiting and waiting for what I hope and pray, in the event LE deems RZ's death is a homicide, that justice will be served.

OK, while I'm at it: as to the suicide scenario, it's a no brainer RZ felt horrible, distraught, devastated, felt at least some way responsible (if only I had, what if...), so maybe the pain WAS too unbearable and she felt there was only one solution. That is understandable. That is believable. But her M.O. -- nude, outside, hands bound behind her back, feet bound. Not believable. Why? IMHO Good ole common sense.

Carioca,

Thank you for sharing you story and :welcome:

You guys have been busy since last evening....so here's my :twocents:

The dog, Ocean - why did RN board him? Was she told too? Did she go to the hospital after boarding him? If so, what happened? Did seeing RN anger DS or JS

Jealousy - well, that is an emotion that can be very deadly. It may lay dormant and upon seeing the person, explode....now add to that a child (only child for DS) being brain dead. I wouldn't be surprised that JS was seeing RN before he left DS. We know RN was divorced this year. Did DS view RN as a "trophy wife"? Was DS also upset at JS for leaving Maxie with RN?

Which leads to revenge with the jealousy rage......RN took my son away from me, so I will take RN away from you...

To Maxie's accident....there is one set of stairs then a large landing, and then another set of stairs. Did he fall from the top balcony or the landing balcony? Did he tumble down the top flight and end up on the landing? Did he tumble down the 2nd flight of stairs and land on the entryway floor?

LE has said from the get-go that it was a tragic accident. Yes, they re-opened his case once RN was found, but Coronado Police have maintained the primary investigatory agency (meaning NOT HOMICIDE). They do not handle homicides.

Tragic accidents can and do happen. I have read nothing that says RN was being investigated as being neglectful. We must remember that another teen was in the mansion....either JS's daughter or RN's sister......

Also, if JS's daughter was in the home and somehow saw the accident or where her and Maxie horsing around and in order to protect her....RN had to be silenced. What extend would JS go to not draw attention to his other children? What if the dog caused the accident?

RN had been with JS for 2 or 3 years. The children appeared to spend close to equal time with their mothers and father (also evidence by JS's employment contract) so RN had to be aware of their needs. Did they have the same arrangement for the summer of 2010, meaning JS's kids stayed at the mansion with RN and JS?

Sorry this is so long, but didn't want to respond to each individual post
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[time]

I ditto that! Have been there, had this happen to me (my very wealthy boyfriend's ex-wife left their daughter's ER bedside in middle of night, went to our residence, luckily I wasn't there, and proceeded to slash all my clothing and belongings with a knife and scissors, broke photo frames, everything). Even though it was she who left their marriage and she had already remarried, she was extremely jealous of me, needed to be the alpha woman in his life, and distraught at the seriousness of their daughter's condition, needed to regain control of something in her life, thus she directed her anger at me. BTW I was home alone when the daughter became so ill, and it was I who took daughter to the hospital.

I have no doubt her intention that night was to harm me (she had a key to our residence; their 3 children lived with us and my BF felt she should be able to have access to them at any time...). Throughout my 5 year relationship with my BF, I let it me known to my family and friends that if anything strange ever happened to me, they would know she was responsible. I finally had no choice but to end the relationship. :banghead:

This is why I became utterly intrigued with this case. So many across the Internet have commented that a distraught mother would never leave her child's bedside. Due to my personal experience, I beg to differ. I am not accusing nor implying here (hmmm, well...), simply sharing my experience while waiting and waiting and waiting for what I hope and pray, in the event LE deems RZ's death is a homicide, that justice will be served.

OK, while I'm at it: as to the suicide scenario, it's a no brainer RZ felt horrible, distraught, devastated, felt at least some way responsible (if only I had, what if...), so maybe the pain WAS too unbearable and she felt there was only one solution. That is understandable. That is believable. But her M.O. -- nude, outside, hands bound behind her back, feet bound. Not believable. Why? IMHO Good ole common sense.

Oh, geez. I had one partner whose ex wife was weird. I could see her doing something like that. She did weird things even without provocation. The worst being leaving a long message on his phone that his boys heard about what a 'W' I was. Same thing, she started an affair before filing for divorce, was living with him at the time, but I guess didn't want anyone to replace her?

I can easily see DS having far more rage than JS about this. I'm just going on what I surmise mostly. M was her only child and probably the only one she would ever have due to her age. RN was now living in a nicer house than she was (BTW, I can't find any property records in Phoenix are that show DS owns a house there). I wonder if JS was holding up support and that led to the La Jolla rent being behind but showed up as DS was irresponsible and not him. She did say in court records he would destroy her. Maybe after MS death she felt like destroying him as this was the final straw? Just conjecture. I would feel it was awkward and humiliating having my ex take up with a woman so much younger, but after MS death, it was then possible RN would have JS children on top of it. All of that could be a painful pill to swallow. Maybe she wanted to hurt JS as much as possible. He acquiesced after Rebecca's death and released joint statements, not wanting to recognize RN's role in his life? He couldn't say he believed it was suicide, but he couldn't say go look for her murderer either? His silence is telling, but there are a few options about what it is telling us.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I remember the gym trainers claiming that RN said they were having a party......was that ever disproven? I wondered if she was preparing for the party and had the other girl watching MS or helping her and no one watching MS.....thus the guilt. Still, why hang yourself over a tragic accident and especially in such a fashion?

Didn't I also read that JS and RN got together before the divorce from DS was final? Is that another "fact" that I have wrong?

 

[time]

<respectuflly snipped>

Which leads to revenge with the jealousy rage......RN took my son away from me, so I will take RN away from you...

..

Tragic accidents can and do happen. I have read nothing that says RN was being investigated as being neglectful. We must remember that another teen was in the mansion....either JS's daughter or RN's sister......

Also, if JS's daughter was in the home and somehow saw the accident or where her and Maxie horsing around and in order to protect her....RN had to be silenced. What extend would JS go to not draw attention to his other children? What if the dog caused the accident?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

JS may have had two ex's breathing down his throat and enraged. One because of how the accident happened, their child was involved/there, and what might come out in the news - the other because it was her child that died.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

20 % females might chose this method, but are they naked, outside, with hands bound behind back and feet bound (using an extension cord, no less)? I don't think so. Even the articles that claimed that similar cases of suicide happened in the past, haven't actually came up with anything quite the same. Like others already pointed out, she is an Asian female, in her photos her clothing doesn't suggest she was an exhibitionist. So why was she hanging outside in a completely nude state? Especially if supposed motive for it is guilt over the child's injuries?

The problem with that though jjenny no suicide methodology is set in concrete. There are always variations and the overall studies do not keep up with the particulars of a hanging and what each and every victim did who hanged themselves. All they keep up with is if the suicide was an overdose of drugs, shooting, poisoning, drowning or hanging, etc.

While my daughter's friend did not hang herself outside she did hang herself inside and she stripped naked leaving her clothing on the floor and bound her feet and hands. She had always been a very discreet woman.

Maybe Rebecca thought hanging herself inside where Maxie fell causing his death would dishonor him.

IMO

 

[IWannaKnow]

BBM

The problem with that though jjenny no suicide methodology is set in concrete. There are always variations and the overall studies do not keep up with the particulars of a hanging and what each and every victim did who hanged themselves..

While my daughter's friend did not hang herself outside she did hang herself inside and she stripped naked leaving her clothing on the floor and bound her feet and hands.

Maybe Rebecca thought hanging herself inside where Maxie fell causing his death would dishonor him.

IMO

Except he wasn't dead yet, right? Why take that step before he even died? Might she not have thought that her duty would be to take care of him for the rest of his life if he recovered but had significant brain injury? She wouldn't be able to do that dead....

 

[time]

I remember the gym trainers claiming that RN said they were having a party......was that ever disproven? I wondered if she was preparing for the party and had the other girl watching MS or helping her and no one watching MS.....thus the guilt. Still, why hang yourself over a tragic accident and especially in such a fashion?

Didn't I also read that JS and RN got together before the divorce from DS was final? Is that another "fact" that I have wrong?

I tend to agree with others. I don't believe it's suicide for these reasons

1. too weird, complicated, improbable, and possibly impossible of a method
2. not enough time for Rebecca to decide her life was not salvageable
3. the effect of the method does not really match with any motive of grief
4. nothing we know of where those close to her said she was despondent/depressed/suicidal/etc. or had any past history of mental illness

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM


Except he wasn't dead yet, right? Why take that step before he even died? Might she not have thought that her duty would be to take care of him for the rest of his life if he recovered but had significant brain injury? She wouldn't be able to do that dead....

Not legally anyway but he was on life support and a machine was keeping him 'alive' and once the machine is unhooked he couldn't sustain life on his own. I have no doubt whatsoever all the doctors were very honest with Jonah and Dina from the very start and tried to prepare them.

I really don't know but from the feelings I get about Rebecca I do think she would have taken care of Maxie no matter what condition he was in..had he lived.

I think because she cared so much is why this had such a profound affect on her.

IMO

 

[scorekeeper]

Oh, geez. I had one partner whose ex wife was weird. I could see her doing something like that. She did weird things even without provocation. The worst being leaving a long message on his phone that his boys heard about what a 'W' I was. Same thing, she started an affair before filing for divorce, was living with him at the time, but I guess didn't want anyone to replace her?

I can easily see DS having far more rage than JS about this. I'm just going on what I surmise mostly. M was her only child and probably the only one she would ever have due to her age. RN was now living in a nicer house than she was (BTW, I can't find any property records in Phoenix are that show DS owns a house there). I wonder if JS was holding up support and that led to the La Jolla rent being behind but showed up as DS was irresponsible and not him. She did say in court records he would destroy her. Maybe after MS death she felt like destroying him as this was the final straw? Just conjecture. I would feel it was awkward and humiliating having my ex take up with a woman so much younger, but after MS death, it was then possible RN would have JS children on top of it. All of that could be a painful pill to swallow. Maybe she wanted to hurt JS as much as possible. He acquiesced after Rebecca's death and released joint statements, not wanting to recognize RN's role in his life? He couldn't say he believed it was suicide, but he couldn't say go look for her murderer either? His silence is telling, but there are a few options about what it is telling us.

BBM

:goodpost:

So true!! What if JS's silence is not for himself but for someone else.......

Would he keep quiet to protect his daughter?
Would he keep quiet to protect his ex-wives?
Would he keep quiet to protect his brother?
Would he keep quiet to protect himself?

Could possible answer "YES" to all...........

 

[Quester]

BBM


Except he wasn't dead yet, right? Why take that step before he even died? Might she not have thought that her duty would be to take care of him for the rest of his life if he recovered but had significant brain injury? She wouldn't be able to do that dead....

The following is a much repeated bit of info that is nearly fact:

MS was known to all close to him to be brain dead on Monday, the day of his fall. The official death was delayed due to the generous decision of his grieving parents to donate his organs. [There may, of course, have been additional reasons for the delay.] Three very lucky children benefited.

That being said, I'm having a hard time believing this was suicide based on what little we know.

If, by some miracle, MS had survived, I would strongly bet that DS would do everything in her power to make sure that MS was never again in the care of RN, regardless of fault.