Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #7

[IWannaKnow]

Not legally anyway but he was on life support and a machine was keeping him 'alive' and once the machine is unhooked he couldn't sustain life on his own. I have no doubt whatsoever all the doctors were very honest with Jonah and Dina from the very start and tried to prepare them.

I really don't know but from the feelings I get about Rebecca I do think she would have taken care of Maxie no matter what condition he was in..had he lived.

I think because she cared so much is why this had such a profound affect on her.

IMO

Well, when my father died they said there was zero hope of recovery due to all the bleeding in the cranial cavity which could be seen on the MRI. Blood destroys brain tissue. If it had only been swelling there would have been hope although he most likely would have been severely impaired. For RN to be that despondent two days later leads me to believe it was a VERY serious accident, one I can't wrap my brain around given the pictures of the stairs we have seen. MS was pronounced dead a WEEK later....we unplugged my father the next day, and the organ harvesters were urging us to make the decision sooner. MS's organs would have been much more valuable than my 75 y.o. fathers. I guess my point is that if she felt that guilty, a fitting "punishment" would have been to care for him for the rest of his life rather than taking her own. IMO.

Sorry about your daughter's friend. :hug:

 

[jjenny]

Not legally anyway but he was on life support and a machine was keeping him 'alive' and once the machine is unhooked he couldn't sustain life on his own. I have no doubt whatsoever all the doctors were very honest with Jonah and Dina from the very start and tried to prepare them.

I really don't know but from the feelings I get about Rebecca I do think she would have taken care of Maxie no matter what condition he was in..had he lived.

I think because she cared so much is why this had such a profound affect on her.

IMO

But it's a complete speculation that RN would know that there was no hope at the time of the supposed suicide. The child was taken to the hospital, his mother and father were there. Did RN ever got to visit? Like was already pointed out, for organ donation, the sooner the support systems are turned off, the better for organ harvesting. But the system was not turned off at the time of this supposed suicide.

 

[IWannaKnow]

BBM

The following is a much repeated bit of info that is nearly fact:

MS was known to all close to him to be brain dead on Monday, the day of his fall. The official death was delayed due to the generous decision of his grieving parents to donate his organs. Three very lucky children benefited.

That being said, I'm having a hard time believing this was suicide based on what little we know.

If, by some miracle, MS had survived, I would strongly bet that DS would do everything in her power to make sure that MS was never again in the care of RN, regardless of fault.

Thank you for that piece of information, however, it really makes it even cloudier for me. If they knew he was brain dead on Monday why wait a week? The longer the body stays on life support, the harder it is on the organs.....they deteriorate. The list of people who needed organs was already in place, they would have known immediately after testing MS who was compatible and who wasn't......why the long wait?
To recap:
MS falls 7/11/11, found without pulse, not breathing. (Brain death due to hypoxia and not trauma?)
JS and DS issue joint statement 7/18/11 stating he died.

I suppose they could have simply waited to issue the statement about his death and I am just reading too much into it, but all the parts do not fit together properly IMO.

I bet you are right however, DS would have made sure RN never got close to him again had he survived in any capacity.

 

[Pach]

ocean,

i think your stand on this issue has been colored by your experience of suicide/s around you ??

or take Carioca, her stand is colored(??) by her experience with the BF's ex.


I think there are certain things we can all agree on:
1.) if this deaths had happened to a homeless or poor person, the police would not have this excessive secrecy and assign 15 investigators to the case nor would media take more than a passing interest

2.) since at least one of the possible suspects(if ever) are powerful and monied, and can get excellent defense lawyers, it stands to reason that if there is evidence pointing at one of them that such evidence needs to be bolstered by other corroborating evidence to make it more airtight. This assumes police and prosecutor are methodical and deliberate in their approach.

3.) the appearance of that ex-prosecutor(?) forgot his name on the mansion grounds just adds to the weirdness factor.

4.) I havent seen the news copter videos(believe it or not) when her body was found, but were those videos the basis for the posts here that evidence/items of interest were taken out by police? e.g. mirror, table, carpet. i wonder what else was taken out of the house by police as items of interest ?? hmmmm

whether murder or suicide, I will bet it will be a media frenzy after police announce their findings more so if it was a murder. the media will be like a school of piranha :floorlaugh:

Not legally anyway but he was on life support and a machine was keeping him 'alive' and once the machine is unhooked he couldn't sustain life on his own. I have no doubt whatsoever all the doctors were very honest with Jonah and Dina from the very start and tried to prepare them.

I really don't know but from the feelings I get about Rebecca I do think she would have taken care of Maxie no matter what condition he was in..had he lived.

I think because she cared so much is why this had such a profound affect on her.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

Well it's not a fact that everybody knew he was brain dead at the time of "suicide." When RN talked to her sister it certainly does not appear RN knew there was no hope and the child was brain dead.

 

[time]

[/b]

BBM

:goodpost:

So true!! What if JS's silence is not for himself but for someone else.......

Would he keep quiet to protect his daughter?
Would he keep quiet to protect his ex-wives?
Would he keep quiet to protect his brother?
Would he keep quiet to protect himself?

Could possible answer "YES" to all...........

Exactly ... interesting to ponder, eh?

 

[time]

But it's a complete speculation that RN would know that there was no hope at the time of the supposed suicide. The child was taken to the hospital, his mother and father were there. Did RN ever got to visit? Like was already pointed out, for organ donation, the sooner the support systems are turned off, the better for organ harvesting. But the system was not turned off at the time of this supposed suicide.

Jenny ... excellent point. What did Rebecca actually know? We haven't heard any evidence she ever went to the hospital - another strange silence. We haven't heard she talked to anyone but the dog guy and her sister either. I think LE also said when Adam called 911 he said 'a woman' was hanging. Perhaps it was difficult to explain who she was on the phone, but it struck me as odd as if a stranger was found hanging in the courtyard. I know this probably isn't true, but it seems no one on Jonah side even admitted her existence.

 

[Quester]

BBM

Thank you for that piece of information, however, it really makes it even cloudier for me. If they knew he was brain dead on Monday why wait a week? The longer the body stays on life support, the harder it is on the organs.....they deteriorate. The list of people who needed organs was already in place, they would have known immediately after testing MS who was compatible and who wasn't......why the long wait?
To recap:
MS falls 7/11/11, found without pulse, not breathing. (Brain death due to hypoxia and not trauma?)
JS and DS issue joint statement 7/18/11 stating he died.

I suppose they could have simply waited to issue the statement about his death and I am just reading too much into it, but all the parts do not fit together properly IMO.

I bet you are right however, DS would have made sure RN never got close to him again had he survived in any capacity.

Re the delay: Yours are all good questions to which we don't yet or won't ever know the answers.

We do know that MS was scheduled for an MRI on Wednesday afternoon (some have said it was for Wed am).

 

[jjenny]

Re the delay: Yours are all good questions to which we don't yet or won't ever know the answers.

We do know that MS was scheduled for an MRI on Wednesday afternoon (some have said it was for Wed am).

I don't think they would do an MRI on someone they already know is brain dead, would they?

 

[jstwondering]

What has led you to believe that RN placed herself ahead of the welfare of the child?

If you don't know the answer to the previous question, then how can you be so certain that the outcome was preventable?

TIA

Totally agree.

Also, I don't know what happened at the house, but an idiom just keeps popping into my head while reading messages that blame RN for MS's fate.

There but for the grace of God, go I

which means
I too, like someone seen to have suffered misfortune, might have suffered a similar fate, but for God's mercy.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/there-but-for-the-grace-of-god.html

If I am lucky enough to never have a child experience any accidents, then I will thank my higher power, and knock on wood.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

ocean,

i think your stand on this issue has been colored by your experience of suicide/s around you ??

or take Carioca, her stand is colored(??) by her experience with the BF's ex.


I think there are certain things we can all agree on:
1.) if this deaths had happened to a homeless or poor person, the police would not have this excessive secrecy and assign 15 investigators to the case nor would media take more than a passing interest

2.) since at least one of the possible suspects(if ever) are powerful and monied, and can get excellent defense lawyers, it stands to reason that if there is evidence pointing at one of them that such evidence needs to be bolstered by other corroborating evidence to make it more airtight. This assumes police and prosecutor are methodical and deliberate in their approach.

3.) the appearance of that ex-prosecutor(?) forgot his name on the mansion grounds just adds to the weirdness factor.

4.) I haven't seen the news copter videos(believe it or not) when her body was found, but were those videos the basis for the posts here that evidence/items of interest were taken out by police? e.g. mirror, table, carpet. i wonder what else was taken out of the house by police as items of interest ?? hmmmm

whether murder or suicide, I will bet it will be a media frenzy after police announce their findings more so if it was a murder. the media will be like a school of piranha :floorlaugh:

BBM

I certainly think you are right. If my daughter's friend had not committed suicide just three weeks before Rebecca did I really wouldn't have known that much about females hanging themselves, binding their hands and feet and stripped naked. Now of course I had read previously about cases where a female hung herself but either I didnt pay attention to the particulars of how they did it or the media didn't release it.

I am not sure I agree on the secrecy part though, Pach. In many ongoing cases LE keeps the investigation very close to the vest.

If LE announces that they investigation determined Rebecca's death was a suicide I don't see that much media attention. It will be announced of course on local and national news but if it is deemed a homicide then you are exactly right. It will be another very high profile case garnering a lot of attention.

IMO

 

[Quester]

Well it's not a fact that everybody knew he was brain dead at the time of "suicide." When RN talked to her sister it certainly does not appear RN knew there was no hope and the child was brain dead.

That's why I used the term "nearly fact". My reason is that since the early-teen aged daughter of DS' manfriend knew the brain dead state of MS, I would presume the adults close to MS knew this as well.

Whether RN knew or not is pure speculation but I would guess that she would have been informed.

That the media reports of RN's call with her sister did not include the info you listed does not mean that RN didn't know and didn't discuss it.

 

[jjenny]

That's why I used the term "nearly fact". My reason is that since the daughter of DS' manfriend knew the brain dead state of MS, I would presume the adults close to MS knew this as well.

Whether RN knew or not is pure speculation but I would guess that she would have been informed.

That the media reports of RN's call with her sister did not include the info you listed does not mean that RN didn't know and didn't discuss it.

When did the daughter know? I've not seen anything to suggest it was already known at the time of "suicide."

 

[IWannaKnow]

I don't think they would do an MRI on someone they already know is brain dead, would they?

They would if the family insisted upon it. One last "I gotta know". I made them bring in another specialist to do testing on my father before I would agree to sign the papers. But FWIW, the definitive tests are not MRIs. They instill ice water into their ears, manipulate the endotracheal tube, etc to see if there is an autonomic response. It wasn't nice but proved the point.

 

[Quester]

When did the daughter know? I've not seen anything to suggest it was already known at the time of "suicide."

Posted online Monday evening, if I remember correctly.

ETA: included references to MS and "brain dead".

 

[defense101]

Jenny ... excellent point. What did Rebecca actually know? We haven't heard any evidence she ever went to the hospital - another strange silence. We haven't heard she talked to anyone but the dog guy and her sister either. I think LE also said when Adam called 911 he said 'a woman' was hanging. Perhaps it was difficult to explain who she was on the phone, but it struck me as odd as if a stranger was found hanging in the courtyard. I know this probably isn't true, but it seems no one on Jonah side even admitted her existence.

When asked, Captain Curran stated about the 911 call AS said "There is a woman on the property and she appears to be dead". The hanging and cutting her down statement was made to responding officers.

 

[sdcali]

BBM


Thank you for that piece of information, however, it really makes it even cloudier for me. If they knew he was brain dead on Monday why wait a week? The longer the body stays on life support, the harder it is on the organs.....they deteriorate. The list of people who needed organs was already in place, they would have known immediately after testing MS who was compatible and who wasn't......why the long wait?
To recap:
MS falls 7/11/11, found without pulse, not breathing. (Brain death due to hypoxia and not trauma?)
JS and DS issue joint statement 7/18/11 stating he died.

I suppose they could have simply waited to issue the statement about his death and I am just reading too much into it, but all the parts do not fit together properly IMO.

I bet you are right however, DS would have made sure RN never got close to him again had he survived in any capacity.

I'm thinking they were told very early on and perhaps there was some discussion about whether to donate or not, with one parent resisting and wanting to wait, more tests, to be sure, etc. I think I would feel that way. Then, perhaps they waited to officially announce it (days after it had occurred) for privacy reasons. They were already in the spotlight. So they wait until after the organs were harvested and MS' body had been flown to AZ to announce it. So it was not really a week in real time...only in the announcements. Remember, GS posted on her FB two days before the official announcement. Perhaps that was the day that his organs were donated and he was pronounced.

 

[sdcali]

When asked, Captain Curran stated about the 911 call AS said "There is a woman on the property and she appears to be dead". The hanging and cutting her down statement was made to responding officers.

I find it interesting that he never used the word hanging when he called 911.

Do we have the transcript to the 911 call? I am guessing no.

Re-reading that statement by Capt. Curran, it sounds very detached and without any emotion.

 

[sdcali]

GS posted on Facebook on Friday, I am not certain of the time, though. That is what led me to believe what I posted about the timeline for the public announcement of MS' passing.

It could be that one of the parents insisted on an MRI-despite perhaps being told it was futile--before the consent for organ donation was given and MS taken off life support. A parent's desparate wish that his/her son could be saved.

 

[MyBelle]

And Rebecca's has not been ruled a suicide. From the articles I have read LE had not planned on even investigating Max's death until Rebecca died. It had been viewed as an accident. Speaking of accidents, what happens if a child darts out in the road in traffic and gets killed by a car? Should the parent or whoever is watching the child at that time be blamed? Is it not just an accident? Accidents do happen, unfortunately.

I know of several cases where children have darted into the road and been injured. Parent was asleep in one incident and not even home in the other. And, yes, they were prosecuted. Accidents are still investigated and decisions are made whether it was an accident. We have not been told the conclusion of the investigation into Maxie's death.