Rebecca Zahau Wrongful Death/ADAM SHACKNAI FOUND RESPONSIBLE #5

[Imp]

Both times I’ve read Webb’s statement, the quote below has jumped out at me. Can someone explain what turned a mannequin into a “sex doll”? Or maybe not. This feels like another way to demean Rebecca IMO. And I suspect that’s how Adam viewed her...as a “custom-ordered sex doll.” When she didn’t cooperate, he brutalized her and killed her to keep her from telling anyone. His behavior at the press conference simply confirmed my impression that he is a bully who is used to having his way.

On top of that, plaintiffs’ grotesque trial stunts like bringing a custom-ordered sex doll with an exact likeness of Rebecca’s face into the courtroom, and hanging her naked body from a makeshift scaffold in front of the jury, was so vile and wildly prejudicial that it should never have been allowed to occur.

https://tribkswb.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/dan-webb-statement-on-shacknai-verdict-4-05-2018.docx

You know, I read that and then apparently blocked it from my memory because it was so despicable. Call me crazy, but I don't think anyone outside the defense bubble will take kindly to listening to them continue to disrespect the dead victim, especially anyone who watched the presser with KG, Mary and her husband. To know what the Zahaus have been through for 7 years, and then to hear the defense call the recreation of her hanging body a "sex doll" is beyond the pale. I'd suggest they stop talking and writing.

I'm wondering if Sitrick & Co. didn't try to talk Webb off the ledge before he went in front of the cameras and then issued his statement? If not, they aren't much of a reputation management firm.

 

[Lezah]

Re Just a follow up on the use of the mannequin as a demonstrative.

The defense councils words are simply not enough for an appeal court. The court will no doubt review the defense arguments and objections at the time ( of which there were many) and the judges ruling and reasons for her determinations.

I have EVERY confidence in this Judge.

The record here will certainly not be silent, the trial transcript will reveal to any reviewing court the general nature and introduction of the demonstative and - very importantly - the guidance and detailed instructions to the jury on how to INTERPRET the demonstrative - by this thorough and pragmatic Judge.

Edited to add...

This is to be expected, feigned outrage, unsubstantiated claims of jury misconduct...and a shift from first attacking the victim and her reputation in trial, to the plaintiffs attorney and the family after they LOST the case, and now on to attacking the judge as they enter the appeal stage.

When the appeal court upholds the verdict, the appeal court will no doubt be the next target for verbal abuse...

What hasn’t changed...is that Adam Shacknai was found responsible and liable for Rebecca’s death in a court of law.

Just my opinion....

 

[Lezah]

Re Just a follow up on the use of the mannequin as a demonstrative.

The defense councils words are simply not enough for an appeal court. The court will no doubt review the defense arguments and objections at the time ( of which there were many) and the judges ruling and reasons for her determinations.

I have EVERY confidence in this Judge.

The record here will certainly not be silent, the trial transcript will reveal to any reviewing court the general nature and introduction of the demonstative and - very importantly - the guidance and detailed instructions to the jury on how to INTERPRET the demonstrative - by this thorough and pragmatic Judge.

 

[Lilibet]

I’m struck by the ironic similarities in another case Webb was appointed to handle, this time as Special Prosecutor. It ended up exposing how police and prosecutors were deficient in handling a notorious Chicago case. He was on the right side as a prosecutor, but certainly on the wrong side defending Adam Shacknai and, by extension, the SDSO investigation.

I have to wonder how an attorney of his caliber got mixed up in this case. He has truly had an illustrious and admirable career (an “icon” as Greer put it), especially as a prosecutor, but he mainly defends corporations now. Why Shacknai? A favor to Jonah? Did he think it would be a slam dunk? No wonder he’s angry! And I also have to wonder at his courtroom successes. I wasn’t at all impressed with his demeanor and delivery. Perhaps at 72 he is losing his cutting edge (I can say this without being accused of “ageism” because he is my age and “the old gray mare ain’t what she used to be.”).

Investigation and Prosecution Regarding Death of David Koschman: In 2012, Dan was appointed by the Circuit Court of Cook County to serve as Special Prosecutor in connection with an investigation of the 2004 death of David Koschman. This pro bono matter was a headline-grabbing case in Chicago. Winston attorneys led by Dan were appointed to serve as Special Prosecutors tasked with investigating the homicide of 21-year-old David Koschman, who died after an April 25, 2004 incident in Chicago’s nightlife district, during which Koschman was punched by a 29-year-old man later identified as Richard Vanecko—the nephew of then-mayor Richard M. Daley. The force of the punch knocked Koschman backwards; he hit his head on the pavement and sustained fatal skull fractures. In 2004, the Chicago Police Department (CPD) and Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office concluded that they could not determine if Koschman was punched or pushed or if it was Vanecko who struck Koschman, but that whoever struck Koschman acted in self-defense. In January 2011, the Chicago Sun-Times issued a FOIA request to the CPD seeking records relating to the Koschman case. The CPD reinvestigated the case in early 2011 and concluded that Vanecko punched Koschman while acting in self-defense and that charges were not warranted. Dan and a team of Winston & Strawn lawyers empanelled a special Cook County grand jury, interviewed 146 witnesses, reviewed 300,000 pages of documents, obtained an indictment and conviction of Vanecko, and wrote a 162-page report containing 852 footnotes detailing the deficiencies by police and prosecutors in their previous handling of the case.
BBM

https://www.winston.com/en/who-we-are/attorneys/webb-dan-k.html#experience

https://www.winston.com/en/who-we-are/attorneys/webb-dan-k.html#full-bio

 

[Hraefn]

IMO the press release from the defense is predictable. The best grounds for appeal IMO are going to be that the mannequin was prejudicial, that media coverage from when the incident occurred influenced the jury, and that there is no evidence connecting Adam to the incident. So basically everything that is in the press release.

This was a tough case, and I think they will have a strong appeal. I was surprised the jury found Adam responsible, to be honest, but I was not there so it's hard to say for sure how I would have voted. Regardless of what I feel personally happened, I was not confident the legal requirements had been met.

I have the absolute utmost respect for Mr. Greer and Rebecca's family through all of this and I hope an appellate court will defer to the jury's findings. But I hope they are all emotionally prepared for a reversal on appeal and/or for nothing to happen on the criminal/investigative side of this. The last thing I want this family to experience is more heart ache and disappointment.

 

[Hraefn]

I’m struck by the ironic similarities in another case Webb was appointed to handle, this time as Special Prosecutor. It ended up exposing how police and prosecutors were deficient in handling a notorious Chicago case. He was on the right side as a prosecutor, but certainly on the wrong side defending Adam Shacknai and, by extension, the SDSO investigation.

I have to wonder how an attorney of his caliber got mixed up in this case. He has truly had an illustrious and admirable career (an “icon” as Greer put it), especially as a prosecutor, but he mainly defends corporations now. Why Shacknai? A favor to Jonah? Did he think it would be a slam dunk? No wonder he’s angry! And I also have to wonder at his courtroom successes. I wasn’t at all impressed with his demeanor and delivery. Perhaps at 72 he is losing his cutting edge (I can say this without being accused of “ageism” because he is my age and “the old gray mare ain’t what she used to be.&#8221.

Investigation and Prosecution Regarding Death of David Koschman: In 2012, Dan was appointed by the Circuit Court of Cook County to serve as Special Prosecutor in connection with an investigation of the 2004 death of David Koschman. This pro bono matter was a headline-grabbing case in Chicago. Winston attorneys led by Dan were appointed to serve as Special Prosecutors tasked with investigating the homicide of 21-year-old David Koschman, who died after an April 25, 2004 incident in Chicago’s nightlife district, during which Koschman was punched by a 29-year-old man later identified as Richard Vanecko—the nephew of then-mayor Richard M. Daley. The force of the punch knocked Koschman backwards; he hit his head on the pavement and sustained fatal skull fractures. In 2004, the Chicago Police Department (CPD) and Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office concluded that they could not determine if Koschman was punched or pushed or if it was Vanecko who struck Koschman, but that whoever struck Koschman acted in self-defense. In January 2011, the Chicago Sun-Times issued a FOIA request to the CPD seeking records relating to the Koschman case. The CPD reinvestigated the case in early 2011 and concluded that Vanecko punched Koschman while acting in self-defense and that charges were not warranted. Dan and a team of Winston & Strawn lawyers empanelled a special Cook County grand jury, interviewed 146 witnesses, reviewed 300,000 pages of documents, obtained an indictment and conviction of Vanecko, and wrote a 162-page report containing 852 footnotes detailing the deficiencies by police and prosecutors in their previous handling of the case.
BBM

https://www.winston.com/en/who-we-are/attorneys/webb-dan-k.html#experience

https://www.winston.com/en/who-we-are/attorneys/webb-dan-k.html#full-bio

O/T Could have stopped reading at "the nephew of then-mayor Richard M. Daley" LOL. He wrote the book on corruption and criminal ties. It wasn't even until Daley had been out of office for 19 months that an indictment was secured, and the nephew ultimately plead guilty to involuntary manslaughter in 2014.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-koschman-vanecko-20140131-story.html

 

[Betty P]

Guys, Can anyone give me any suggestions of examples of cases I can read into where suicide as COD was recategorized to undetermined ?

...any cases you can recommend me to look where ‘new evidence’ was utilized, and what actually constitutes ‘new evidence’?

Are either of these considered ‘new’ by the legal definition...

***The deep bruise on RZ back was only discovered at the second autopsy (thought to be caused during restraint, possibly caused by a knee)

*** Timestamped and sequential photographs of the body on the grass show unexplained lividity which was not considered at the autopsy.

(The lividity in the body was evaluated upon time of arrival of the ME at scene rather than the time of actual discovery of the body ( as evidenced in testimony at trial by lead detective of the time the photographs were taken, shortly after discovery of the body)

Some more possibilities

Ronda Reynolds

I read a book several years ago about this case, written by Ann Rule. A judge ordered the Coroner to change the death certificate to remove COD as suicide. There were no fingerprints on the gun or ammo used to kill her and she was covered with an electric blanket, presumably to interfere with estimating TOD. Her husband, whom she was divorcing, had just recently moved his ex wife into their home. Ronda had already packed and bought an airline ticket to leave the next day. Her husband and stepson were found responsible for her murder, but criminal charges were later filed and withdrawn

http://tdn.com/news/judge-orders-ch...cle_56b0aa64-fc8a-11de-86b0-001cc4c002e0.html

Here's the WS thread

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...nty-13-December-1998&highlight=ronda+reynolds

Ashley Fallis

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hou...nvestigative-missteps-in-death-ruled-suicide/

Susan Winters

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...oroner-changes-ruling-in-susan-winters-death/

Just searching on the internet reveals its not a common thing for MEs or coroners to do. Sometimes the evidence isn't as clear as it is in Rebecca's case.

 

[Jade]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-trial-20180405-story.html


There you are Adam!

We knew you ended up not happy playing the blundering hick role not even enough to squeeze out a teeninyist crocodile tear on called for occasions. And now here you are being yourself indignant and in charge!

Mary seems to be having a lovely time. Her first visit to San Diego?

Did she get to have a nice seafood dinner on the harbor?

Too bad the defense didn’t spring for bringing out all your friends and supporters from Memphis. Sort of made you look like a liar about that.

<modsnip>

 

[watergirl62]

http://kfmb.videodownload.worldnow.com/KFMB_0404201818035700000AC.mp4

That is such a moving news interview with Greer and 2 family members, The husband of Rebecca's sister and Rebecca's sister

Thanks for this link!

Mary is such a warrior. Her pain is so raw, and had me literally sobbing. Can someone please post her family's link? TIA.

 

[Imp]

Thanks for this link!

Mary is such a warrior. Her pain is so raw, and had me literally sobbing. Can someone please post her family's link? TIA.

https://www..com/rydrn-justice-for-rebecca

 

[watergirl62]

Does Mr Greer have one also and if so could you please post link? Thanks!

 

[screecher]

The argument by the defense that a plastic doll used in court as a demonstrative tool could be more prejudicial than the horrific, graphic images of the ACTUAL dead, naked, bound and gagged body of Rebecca Zahau SHOWN BY THE DEFENSE is totally ridiculous.

Just my opinion...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And even worse, she lay there for 13+ hours for the world to see. :maddening::notgood:

 

[Peaceful]

The Defense never had a PR firm guiding the media. Do you have a link for that? Strick and Co was hired to deal with the media while Jonah was mourning his child and girlfriend.



https://www.10news.com/news/coronado-mansion-owner-hires-pr-firm

Please post a link to show they worked past that on media. Otherwise, it is just an unfounded rumor.

All you have to do is google to see which side was talking with the press every chance they could. Check Radar Online and the SD papers.

I hope that the Shacknais will bring all the dubious things about Rebecca’s and the Zahau’s lives to the media now. They certainly will have the big shows calling for interviews. IMO. I hope Barbara Walters or Oprah snags the first interview.

IMO.

Hoping for anything negative for a dead woman is victim bashing, in my opinion. It’s unfortunate. I think the Zahaus continue to have such class, even expressing forgiveness of the man they believe murdered their sister. That’s taking the high ground.

 

[Mica]

Does Mr Greer have one also and if so could you please post link? Thanks!

Mr. Greer doesn&#8217;t have one as far as I know.

 

[screecher]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-trial-20180405-story.html


There you are Adam!

We knew you ended up not happy playing the blundering hick role not even enough to squeeze out a teeninyist crocodile tear on called for occasions. And now here you are being yourself indignant and in charge!

Mary seems to be having a lovely time. Her first visit to San Diego?

Did she get to have a nice seafood dinner on the harbor?

Too bad the defense didn&#8217;t spring for bringing out all your friends and supporters from Memphis. Sort of made you look like a liar about that.

Doesn&#8217;t look like it made in the news back home shall we let them know so they can be expecting you and Mary back soon?

:lol:

 

[Seattle1]

From Nov 2017...Reaction to possibility of being replaced

Commander says he's been banished to 'broom closet' for daring to run for San Diego County sheriff

"Dave Myers, a commander who is campaigning for the top post in the Sheriff&#8217;s Department, said he has been unceremoniously transferred to a new assignment in a &#8220;broom closet&#8221; and stripped of his usual duties in retaliation for running against incumbent Sheriff Bill Gore...."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-sheriff-assignment-20171129-story.html

 

[Mica]

IMO the press release from the defense is predictable. The best grounds for appeal IMO are going to be that the mannequin was prejudicial, that media coverage from when the incident occurred influenced the jury, and that there is no evidence connecting Adam to the incident. So basically everything that is in the press release.

This was a tough case, and I think they will have a strong appeal. I was surprised the jury found Adam responsible, to be honest, but I was not there so it's hard to say for sure how I would have voted. Regardless of what I feel personally happened, I was not confident the legal requirements had been met.

I have the absolute utmost respect for Mr. Greer and Rebecca's family through all of this and I hope an appellate court will defer to the jury's findings. But I hope they are all emotionally prepared for a reversal on appeal and/or for nothing to happen on the criminal/investigative side of this. The last thing I want this family to experience is more heart ache and disappointment.

Thank you SBHack for your professional opinions. However, please help me understand....

The judge was very careful in guiding and instructing the jury about how to interpret the demonstrative (mannequin.) IMO, it was a 3D depiction shown to help the jury have a visual of the distance Rebecca was from the ground before Adam cut her down, and to show the way she was bound and gagged. Adam did say he found Rebecca hanging in that condition. Also, the media is often very involved with murder cases - OJ, Casey Anthony. They were found innocent in a criminal matter. Many jurors admit hearing about a high profile case in the media prior to being selected to a panel. The jury, like many others following the case, could easily conclude there was no DNA/fingerprint evidence connecting Adam because Adam wore gloves, wiped areas of the scene, and the investigation was flawed, to say the least. The jury didn&#8217;t need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to come to a conclusion, just preponderance of the evidence. How are these things prejudicial?

 

[Tortoise]

<RSBM>

Regardless of what I feel personally happened, I was not confident the legal requirements had been met.

Hi SBHack, I wonder if you could be specific about the legal requirements you are referring to, so that we can understand this please. TIA

 

[Lilibet]

Keith Greer did such a fabulous job, I hoped to find out more about him. Outside of the Zahau case, he has a very low key online presence...just Twitter. No website, no Wikipedia, etc. that I can find. I&#8217;m interested in other cases he has been involved in, other than representing Podiatrists.
http://www.podiatricsuccess.com/speaker/c-keith-greer-esq/

How did the Zahau&#8217;s happen to hire him? What&#8217;s his track record? He is also involved in what will be a very high profile wrongful death trial involving &#8220;the case that shall not be named.&#8221; What am I missing about his background?

 

[Mica]

Lilibet, I don&#8217;t have any background info on Mr. Greer to answer your question. However, based on this case, he is a gentleman of fine moral compass, and one damn good attorney.