Rebecca's cell phone records

[time]

Good points.

I want to caution that even *IF* medical staff noted in Max's medical records that the parents such as Dina was present, we have to take into account the specific time that that was noted and not assume that that means Dina was physically present at the hospital the ENTIRE Tues night into Wed 7am.

It could simply mean that at the time the staff popped into the hospital room, s/he saw Dina briefly there. Who's to say Dina then did NOT leave the hospital soon after she was sighted?

The only foolproof evidence is *IF* Dina were captured on video surveillance. For the life of me, I cannot imagine how one parent -- Jonah -- was captured in multiple videocameras/tapes at the hospital/RMH Tues night into Wed morning whereas Dina was captured in NONE!!!

NOT ONE SINGLE CAMERA caught Dina at the hospital OR the RMH!!! Just doesn't make sense if Dina was actually at the hospital at any time Tues night into Wed 7am. For me, THAT is conclusive, irrefutable, physical evidence that Dina was NOT at the hospital "sitting vigil" by Max's bedside Tues into Wed. which leads me to strongly believe that Dina was at the Spreckels mansion committing humiliating torture/heinous murder of Rebecca.

I agree bourne. Some hospital staff seeing her at some point is nothing. Where are they anyway even if that is true.

BBM - I have suspected for a long time that Dina was not in the hospital at all between 6-9pm Tuesday and 6 am Wednesday. That does not even take into account where she was most of the rest of Tuesday either.

 

[bourne]

===============================================
So we're suppose to believe that Thompson/Gore thoroughly investigated Dina's statements....according to statements she and NINA arrived at Rady after 4:30pm Tuesday - Jonah left after 5:00pm with Howard when RZ and Adam picked them up - JS came back at 8:00pm-NINA claims she left at 9:00pm borrowing JS car - JS calls RZ at 11:48pm Tuesday night - JS calls Dina 7:00am Wed. morning about RZ death.

So from Tuesday late afternoon at 4:30pm thru Wed. morning.....Dina never went to the restroom? Dina bought coffee? Dina never went to the cafeteria for dinner or a sandwich? Hmmm.....

Precisely! It's physically and logically IMPOSSIBLE for Dina to NOT have been captured on surveillance video at both the hospital and/or RMH Tuesday night into Wednesday morning while Jonah was captured on NUMEROUS OCCASIONS by the same camera videos during the same time period!

Remember by Dina's own admission she went to the hospital at 8pm Tuesday to alternate shifts with Jonah. So why was she not captured on the hospital video ONCE during that entire Tues night? Of course, Dina's admission contradicts Jonah's statement that Dina arrived at the hospital at 6pm Tuesday so that he, Adam and Dr. Luber could go to dinner with Rebecca who was waiting outside the hospital for the men. And that when Jonah returned at 8pm Tues, Dina then WENT WHERE????

Remember according to both Dina & Jonah, they were taking shifts watching Max. So since Jonah returned to the hospital at 8pm Tues and Jonah was captured on surveillance videos time and time again that Tues night into Wed morning, where the heck was Dina Tues night into Wed morning?

According to their own statements about alternating shifts at Max's bedside at the hospital, Jonah and Dina were NOT BOTH physically sitting vigil at the same time, right?

So WHY DID DINA *LIE* that she was "sitting vigil" by her one and only son Maxie's bedside Tues night into Wed morning when only Jonah is seen on hospital videos during that time period?

Let's also point out that according to Jonah, he called Dina at 7am Wednesday morning to tell her Rebecca had passed away. So WHEN was Dina FINALLY captured on hospital surveillance video? Was it on Wed 7am???

If Dina is FINALLY seen ENTERING the hospital by surveillance video Wed 7am, then we KNOW she was DEFINITELY NOT in the hospital Tues night through Wed morning. Now, WHY would a "loving mother of her one and only son Maxie" not be at the hospital as she CLAIMED she was "sitting vigil" all night Tuesday into Wednesday?

Again, WHY would Dina *LIE* about being at the hospital EXCEPT to give herself an alibi for the night in which Rebecca happens to have been ROPE-BOUND/TORTURED and MURDERED viciously?

Any way we look at this, in my educated opinion, Dina was physically involved in Rebecca's murder. There's just NO OTHER PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION for Dina's DISAPPEARANCE from the hospital Tues night into Wed morning at 7am and for Dina's BLATANT LIES that she was "sitting vigil" at her one and only son Maxie's hospital bedside. NO OTHER PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION.

Take this fact along with the fact that Dina was PHYSICALLY SIGHTED at the Spreckels mansion lurking and acting bizarrely carrying a huge BLACK PURSE that Tues night around 10pm to 11pm by independent impartial eyewitnesses (an entire family of bicyclists in the full moon and bright streetlamp shining at the door of the Spreckels mansion front door) PLUS the two separate earwitnesses from either side of the Spreckels mansion who HEARD a woman (Rebecca) screaming FOR HELP shortly after Dina was sighted at the mansion. None of these eye- and ear-witnesses have any personal bias as they knew neither Dina nor Rebecca personally, nor does any one of them benefit from stating that they saw Dina at the mansion or that they heard a woman cry for help that night. What does all this mean?

In my informed opinion based on facts and evidence, it means that there is CLEAR and CONVINCING PREPONDERANCE of CIRCUMSTANTIAL AND DIRECT EVIDENCE that Dina was physically involved in Rebecca's torture/murder. The wrongful death suit by Rebecca's family should have no problems bringing Dina's culpability in Rebecca's murder to light.

 

[Bonepile]

I too was open to the suicide argument and one of the things that strongly brought me away from suicide was this very fact of the attitude of murdering her reputation as well. Something has been very wrong with this case from the beginning with the 13 hours of having her lay in the yard uncovered. I will never let that terrible fact escape.

and as far as I am concerned this attitude and ineptness on the part of the authorities doomed their investigation from "hour one" as summarized in the small graphic to the left of my name.

 

[time]

Remember by Dina's own admission she went to the hospital at 8pm Tuesday to alternate shifts with Jonah. So why was she not captured on the hospital video ONCE during that entire Tues night? Of course, Dina's admission contradicts Jonah's statement that Dina arrived at the hospital at 6pm Tuesday so that he, Adam and Dr. Luber could go to dinner with Rebecca who was waiting outside the hospital for the men. And that when Jonah returned at 8pm Tues, Dina then WENT WHERE????

Remember according to both Dina & Jonah, they were taking shifts watching Max. So since Jonah returned to the hospital at 8pm Tues and Jonah was captured on surveillance videos time and time again that Tues night into Wed morning, where the heck was Dina Tues night into Wed morning?

It never made sense to me that she went to relieve Jonah at 8 pm?!

Let's also point out that according to Jonah, he called Dina at 7am Wednesday morning to tell her Rebecca had passed away. So WHEN was Dina FINALLY captured on hospital surveillance video? Was it on Wed 7am???

If Dina is FINALLY seen ENTERING the hospital by surveillance video Wed 7am, then we KNOW she was DEFINITELY NOT in the hospital Tues night through Wed morning. Now, WHY would a "loving mother of her one and only son Maxie" not be at the hospital as she CLAIMED she was "sitting vigil" all night Tuesday into Wednesday?

Again, are we supposed to believe that Dina was there from 6-8pm until Jonah went to RonMc House after midnight? And that she stayed in the hospital after that until 7 am?

The whole timeline doesn't make sense for Tues (all of it) - Wed morning.

 

[*Lash*]

I don't think we know that Dina wasn't at all caught on Rady's video surveillance for Tuesday. She may have been videoed at some point just not during the crucial timeline? It would be interesting to know more about the Rady video surveillance. Was Dina absent from video for the entire day? Did Nina appear on video? Did the video show HL and JS leaving for dinner? Surely the parking garage also had video surveillance. Was Nina seen on video leaving in Jonah's car? Was Dina's car seen? Of course, Nina could have left in Jonah's car and picked Dina up down the street so it would appear as if Dina's car never left. Unless Dina was never there in the first place. Did SDSO even attempt to piece together the puzzle of why Dina was absent yet others appeared on video surveillance? In my opinion, nope they absolutely did not. The surveillance and cellphone records were requested a mere 7 days before the big press conference on 9/2.

I would like to see the cellphone records of Dina. If Dina's phone was at Rady's, but she was physically not there, I would expect to see a large block of time with zero outgoing communication on Dina's phone. Unless this was all premeditated and someone else was intentionally using Dina's phone in her absence. I would also like to see any calls or texts between DS and NR.

Of course with Jonah's records I would like to see what time he called Rebecca and left the alleged voicemail. I would also like to see any calls or texts between AS and JS.

Too many missing details were never given an explanation. In my opinion, an explanation was not given because SDSO had already concluded Rebecca committed suicide and the big man wanted the case closed. I wish the Zahau attorneys would release Rebecca's file.

 

[time]

<snip>Of course, Nina could have left in Jonah's car and picked Dina up down the street so it would appear as if Dina's car never left. Unless Dina was never there in the first place. Did SDSO even attempt to piece together the puzzle of why Dina was absent yet others appeared on video surveillance? In my opinion, nope they absolutely did not. The surveillance and cellphone records were requested a mere 7 days before the big press conference on 9/2.
<snip>

I don't think they did either. At some point SDSO obviously set about proving this was suicide and just checked some things to cover their behind. Most telling was that Gore had to be pressed about Dina's alibi and finally admit they did not even have her on surveillance, period.

 

[*Lash*]

In my opinion, Rebecca's death was NOT thoroughly investigated as a homicide. The simple fact the video surveillance and cellphone records were not requested until 8/24, therefore not reviewed until 40 days after Rebecca's death, is very telling of what was really happening in Gore's department.

 

[time]

In my opinion, Rebecca's death was NOT thoroughly investigated as a homicide. The simple fact the video surveillance and cellphone records were not requested until 8/24, therefore 40 days after her death, is very telling of what was really happening in Gore's department.

I think it happened early on, the decision to try for suicide. Otherwise, they would have checked out Rebecca's phone before it was too late (they claim).

Here is the news on Sep 21, 2011 again

Sheriff's homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit said that within the past week technology experts from his department started using newly-identified software to download data from Zahau's phone for forensic review.

News 8 has learned Sheriff's detectives never attempted to recover a deleted voicemail message, which Nesbit confirmed was left for Zahau by her boyfriend Jonah Shacknai, 54, hours before she died.

Investigators have said the voicemail may have caused Zahau to commit suicide, because the message allegedly informed her that Shacknai's 6-year-old son, Max, would not survive injuries he suffered during a fall at the mansion while under Zahau's care.

In the early days of the investigation, Jonah Shacknai told detectives he had left the voicemail message, Lt. Nesbit recalled.

"If we could have gotten it (the voicemail), yes, it would have been helpful but it was not critical to the case," said Lt. Nesbit.

...Unfortunately, Zahau's phone was relatively new and examiners were unable to identify a software package that would properly copy the phone's data, Lt. Nesbit said.

"Once we found out that the technology did not exist to forensically examine the phone, the detective manually opened the phone and learned that the message had been deleted; and she knew from prior case experience that if the message had been deleted from the phone, it would not have been stored on an AT&T server," Nesbit said.

Nesbit explained further that the voicemail "is not stored on the phone itself but once it's deleted from the phone, after a certain number of days it's also deleted from the AT&T server; and at that point it had been at least a week and she (the detective) knew that it was no longer on the server.

A spokesperson for AT&T did not respond to repeated News 8 messages seeking clarification on the company's ability to retrieve deleted voicemail messages.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...nesses-accounts-reported?clienttype=printable

Let's not forget that SDSO claimed Rebecca only became suicidal after 12:50 a.m.

And, that was after merely hearing a voice message and not even attempting to call Jonah back nor anyone else.

 

[*Lash*]

I don't think they did either. At some point SDSO obviously set about proving this was suicide and just checked some things to cover their behind. Most telling was that Gore had to be pressed about Dina's alibi and finally admit they did not even have her on surveillance, period.

I agree. The surveillance and cellphone warrants were only requested as a CYA. I tend to believe SDSO did not anticipate what they found or did not find from these 3 particular search warrants. By this time the suicide group think was already in place and the missing explanations were purposely ignored.

 

[bourne]

I don't think we know that Dina wasn't at all caught on Rady's video surveillance for Tuesday. She may have been videoed at some point just not during the crucial timeline?

Respectfully snipped and BBM.

I agree. It would have been most helpful had Sheriff Gore at the presser, when pressed about Dina's alibi, stated during WHICH SPECIFIC TIME PERIOD(S) Dina wasn't captured on hospital surveillance videos. All we know is that after much hesitance, and then asking a reporter to REPEAT the question re: Dina's alibi, he finally said they used "cellphone triangulation".

 

[time]

I agree. The surveillance and cellphone warrants were only requested as a CYA. I tend to believe SDSO did not anticipate what they found or did not find from these 3 particular search warrants. By this time the suicide group think was already in place and the missing explanations were purposely ignored.

From the same article, Sept 11, 2001

To date, sheriff investigators have served no search warrants or subpoenas on AT&T seeking to obtain either the deleted voicemail or call logs related to Rebecca Zahau's phone, according to Lt. Nesbit.

Nesbit said because they had possession of the phone itself, there was no need to subpoena Rebecca's call logs.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...nesses-accounts-reported?clienttype=printable

We are supposed to buy this crazy reasoning! Talking in circles, here's how it goes...

We've served no warrants because we had possession of the phone, never mind we couldn't retrieve the message because we never asked the phone company for that and, by the way, we didn't need them to give us the call logs. HOWEVER, we will claim that very message we are saying isn't important was important for the motive for suicide.

And, per bournes' post.... we don't need to tell anyone what time period we looked at for Dina's alibi because we had cellphone triangulation for some time period (that was obtained how?). Was that obtained by a search warrant perhaps and only late in the game because we had to have it or we had nothing.

 

[bourne]

I think it happened early on, the decision to try for suicide. Otherwise, they would have checked out Rebecca's phone before it was too late (they claim).

Here is the news on Sep 21, 2011 again

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...nesses-accounts-reported?clienttype=printable

Let's not forget that SDSO claimed Rebecca only became suicidal after 12:50 a.m.

And, that was after merely hearing a voice message and not even attempting to call Jonah back nor anyone else.

Excellent points, particularly BBM.

Why did Rebecca NOT return the phone call from Jonah to verify the "dire condition/imminent death" of Max if she heard his voicemail? Why would a young, healthy woman with no history of mental illness not confirm that Max was beyond the point of no return before allegedly deciding to kill herself? Why would she base the most important life decision -- to end her own life -- on a single voicemail without verifying the facts with Jonah/doctors of Max? That makes NO SENSE and leads me to believe she did NOT even listen to the voicemail, that it's highly likely that Rebecca's murderer(s) listened to the VM and deleted it at 12:50am Wed while in the process of torturing/murdering Rebecca and staging their silly "suicide" scene.

For heaven's sakes, we see Rebecca's pattern of past behaviors regarding text messages and phone calls. She IMMEDIATELY replies to text messages and VMs and FOLLOWS THROUGH. She doesn't leave people hanging!

However, that Tues night in which she was hung, the only two people Rebecca did not answer/reply to were Nina's text message on Tues 10:40pm and Jonah's voicemail at 11:35pm! I think that is highly suspicious and implies that Rebecca was already tied up against her will/murdered by then and that is why she NEVER replied to either Nina's text or Jonah's VM.

Also, if Rebecca was so distraught from this single voicemail, you'd think she would have at least contacted her sisters and spoken to them one last time before making the ultimate decision to allegedly end her life. Like to say "goodbye" or provide them with some closure given how thoughtful, considerate and caring she was towards other people her ENTIRE LIFE.

 

[K_Z]

I think it happened early on, the decision to try for suicide. Otherwise, they would have checked out Rebecca's phone before it was too late (they claim).

Here is the news on Sep 21, 2011 again

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...nesses-accounts-reported?clienttype=printable

Let's not forget that SDSO claimed Rebecca only became suicidal after 12:50 a.m.

And, that was after merely hearing a voice message and not even attempting to call Jonah back nor anyone else.

BBM

Yes, I think it happened early on, too. As in, the first 5 words of the 911 call by AS.

"I got a girl, hung herself."


And I think it is beyond incredulous to believe that SDSO DID NOT KNOW about Jonah Shacknai's voice mail at 1250 for more than a week, while the VM was still on the server. I would think that was one of the first questions asked by LE when they talked to JS-- "When did you last talk to her or see her?" Even a rookie cop can think of that question. Heck, even a 12 year old can.

And that conversation almost certainly happened while Rebecca was STILL laying nude and uncovered on the Spreckles lawn for nearly 13 hours, while helicopters hovered taking pictures and teenage boys leered and jeered snapping pics from the rooftop.

I used to think the SDSO "bungling" of Rebecca's investigation was just mere incompetence of leadership, coupled with confirmation bias, and racism/ sexism. Over the 2 years since her death, as I have learned more about what they DIDN'T do in the first crucial hours, I am more convinced than ever that corruption produced this travesty at the leadership levels, and the confirmation bias followed among the rank and file.

Even a rookie cop would know to tent the body. Even a rookie cop would know Paul Pfingst didn't belong inside the crime tape. Even a rookie cop would know that you don't wait 40 days to subpoena phone records from principal suspects. The forensic techs certainly knew the clock was running on the server storage for the crucial "motive for suicide" VM.

And SDSO also knows with absolute certainty, IMO, when Dina and Jonah appear, and did not appear, on multiple areas of hospital surveillance footage. I'm hoping these very tough questions are part of the discovery process in the Zahau wrongful death suit. The jury needs to know how many "mistakes" were made related to the investigation of Dina, Adam, and Nina.

 

[time]

BBM<snip>
And I think it is beyond incredulous to believe that SDSO DID NOT KNOW about Jonah Shacknai's voice mail at 1250 for more than a week, while the VM was still on the server. I would think that was one of the first questions asked by LE when they talked to JS-- "When did you last talk to her or see her?" Even a rookie cop can think of that question. Heck, even a 12 year old can.

One of the first things you would do in such a violent death (especially given how close in proximity it was to Max's death) is get a search warrant for the decedent's phone. I'm not buying it. They short skirted it all to save on resources and so they didn't have evidence that contradicted the suicide theory.

 

[MissJ]

My argument is clear..RZ did nothing wrong....why would she kill herself (in such a manner) over an accident? JMO, she wouldn't.

 

[Carioca]

In my opinion, Rebecca's death was NOT thoroughly investigated as a homicide. The simple fact the video surveillance and cellphone records were not requested until 8/24, therefore not reviewed until 40 days after Rebecca's death, is very telling of what was really happening in Gore's department.

BBM 40 days AFTER Rebecca's violent and suspicious death as opposed to a matter of days in recent HA/DiMaggio kidnapping and murder investigation. In Gore's case, it's all self-serving. Gore makes me sick.

 

[inthedark14]

So, just to throw this out there...Everything below is MOO and (at least to me) disturbing, fair warning.

NR has calls to RZ (RZ's phone says 9:41, NR's 10:41) NR says that she didn't get an answer. (IMO if she treated RZ they way she said she did in a MSM interview, why in the world would RZ take her call?!) Many people believe that RZ's TOD was much earlier than SDSO has stated. What if it was that quick, if not her actual death, but RZ being incapacitated. RZ was a very small woman. She was also very healthy and fit, but in the event of a brute attack, how would one small woman do against, say someone weighing a hundred pounds more than her (or more) and more than half a foot taller than her? Going with this theory or RZ being attacked (let's say 9:50/10:50 depending on whose cell phone records are producing the truth--I lean towards the non-internet printed records for RZ's phone being the true one).

What if the person who showed up was so upset, so worked up into a seething rage that somehow this larger person hurt RZ when trying to "ask questions" about what happened to poor MS. What does that person do then? (How much contact were the Romano sisters having during the time frame where RZ was incommunicado--RZ, a person who by her own phone records was in constant contact with several people at nearly all times? Wouldn't NR be texting her sister stating that RZ wouldn't answer her phone?? That she was walking over there--EVEN THOUGH SHE HAD JS's CAR AT HER DISPOSAL--by her own admission NR was there at DS's request, to find out more about what happened to MS, because DS believed that RZ knew more than she had told EMS, JS, and a police detective).

It wouldn't be odd that there was so much time for all the overkill staging to happen. A person or persons being there would possibly go with one plan and then on to another rather quickly and in the heat of the moment, I can easily see how they could overdo it and at the same time leave behind all the things that make this so obviously a murder. It would also leave time for help (with this horrible, disgusting murder) to come. Here is where it becomes clear that more than one person was involved with RZ's death. Which, I'm sure, is why her family's suit names three people at this time, with the option to add more in the future. Who wouldn't freak out if they had just seriously hurt a woman (possibly choking her out (leaving that second mark as stated in the autopsy report, or possibly hitting her over the head, as stated in the autopsy report as the four head injuries).? Perhaps this is when the others (whoever they are) came and helped stage the scene, there is no reason for all of the extras without more than one person being there.

Also there would be time, in this scenario to contact others, say using a phone that belonged to one of the (at least four??) people who were staying at the G Street house to contact someone to leave a VM on a phone that was turned off? We've never seen that person's phone records, so we don't know who contacted that person during the time frame. Has it even EVER been stated exactly who was staying at the G Street house with DS,for support for her dealing with MS' horrible fall or for....whatever reason? (THANK YOU SHERIFF GORE FOR THE STUPENDOUS INVESTIGATIVE WORK).

Thanks for dealing with a long post everyone...and ALWAYS MOO