Related Issues and Food for Thought

[SnooperDuper]

I think DM intended to put everything on MS, but it's obvious that DM is in this much deeper than MS...Perhaps DM is confused as to why all the guilt and attention is not centered on MS? Is that the obvious, that right from the start, DM intended to hang MS for this crime to save his own skin?

 

[Arnie M]

They didn't have to find Tim's phone to trace what numbers had called him, they were not waiting to check his caller id, from what I recall.

Thanks for the new photo Arnie, I hadn't seen that one before, but it again just makes me think that those wrist tattoos don't seem to have a box around them. Maybe that the thing DM thinks is so obvious that we are missing?

Just my opinion only.

I have seen better pictures of the ambition tattoos and they did not appear to have a box around them ... but they were from a couple years ago and a box could have been added later I suppose.

Could also be a (witness) error thinking there was a box around the tattoo , nevertheless he got the important stuff right.

I still say if the the first-test-drive-man had not observed and reported the tattoo DM may have gotten away with it.

That , and the earlier patrol cop who carded the tattoo info which gave police computers the cross reference. As well as the grainy video showing an SUV following the truck which fit with DM's Yukon ... the noose began to tighten.

When Detectives first questioned DM it was most likely to see if he was being deceptive , which of course he would be , and after they left it was likely to do arrest paperwork and formulate an arrest plan.

Good point about not needing Tim's phone , you are right , they would have looked up his incoming calls at the phone company.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I'm not sure DM would have gotten away with it if only his tattoos were hidden - remember, the burner phone was used and traced to locations in Etobicoke and one of those locations could have been DM's home (another could have been CN's home...)

 

[Tamarind]

I have seen better pictures of the ambition tattoos and they did not appear to have a box around them ... but they were from a couple years ago and a box could have been added later I suppose.

Could also be a (witness) error thinking there was a box around the tattoo , nevertheless he got the important stuff right.

I still say if the the first-test-drive-man had not observed and reported the tattoo DM may have gotten away with it.

That , and the earlier patrol cop who carded the tattoo info which gave police computers the cross reference. As well as the grainy video showing an SUV following the truck which fit with DM's Yukon ... the noose began to tighten.

When Detectives first questioned DM it was most likely to see if he was being deceptive , which of course he would be , and after they left it was likely to do arrest paperwork and formulate an arrest plan.

Good point about not needing Tim's phone , you are right , they would have looked up his incoming calls at the phone company.

Which important stuff did they get right?

The long or maybe short sleeved orange shirt?

The tattoo that may or may not have a box around it?
If it's witness error, how many other errors has same witness made. ?Makes witness less credible IMO

Deceptive? How do we know DM was deceptive, is there a link for that?

A grainy video showed a dark vehicle apparently, I don't believe the make and model was decipherable.

 

[Tamarind]

I think DM intended to put everything on MS, but it's obvious that DM is in this much deeper than MS...Perhaps DM is confused as to why all the guilt and attention is not centered on MS? Is that the obvious, that right from the start, DM intended to hang MS for this crime to save his own skin?

If it were that obvious, many such as myself would not be questioning the whole case due to the inaccuracies and less than obvious facts so far MOO

To say that DM was trying to frame MS is quite ludicrous IMO. Why would DM put a body and a truck on properties that would lead police to him and not MS. By that logic it is obviously DM that has been set up IMO.

 

[matou]

I'll bite. No link between murder victim #1 and Smich. But BOTH are charged with her murder. Murder victim #2 only has one person charged in that case: the victim's son Dellen Millard. Murder victim #3 has two people charged directly with this one. Why kill three people? Someone got away with it two times previously. I'm not sure about Smich's charge in Laura's murder. Likely because of the gun link only. DM is likely going to be described as impulsive and into some dark and violent stuff. Stuff that most people are only linking with Smich. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

I'll bite. No link between murder victim #1 and Smich. But BOTH are charged with her murder. Murder victim #2 only has one person charged in that case: the victim's son Dellen Millard. Murder victim #3 has two people charged directly with this one. Why kill three people? Someone got away with it two times previously. I'm not sure about Smich's charge in Laura's murder. Likely because of the gun link only. DM is likely going to be described as impulsive and into some dark and violent stuff. Stuff that most people are only linking with Smich. JMO

We do not know that three people have been killed. WM may well be suicide as was originally determined by LE.

LB's body has yet to be found. It is alleged that she has been murdered but the body as yet has been elusive. People such as myself would like to know a few details before accepting allegations as facts.

The jury has not yet come back with a verdict on any of the three, so forgive me for not buying into anything prior to trial. I am always up for debate and putting forth any questions I have or any rebuttals to views that I find unsubstantiated. Naturally anyone else is able to do the same. For me, putting all opinions out there is what gives a wider perspective and opens all avenues for discussion rather than limiting it to what the media puts out. JMO

 

[Juballee]

I'll bite. No link between murder victim #1 and Smich. But BOTH are charged with her murder. Murder victim #2 only has one person charged in that case: the victim's son Dellen Millard. Murder victim #3 has two people charged directly with this one. Why kill three people? Someone got away with it two times previously. I'm not sure about Smich's charge in Laura's murder. Likely because of the gun link only. DM is likely going to be described as impulsive and into some dark and violent stuff. Stuff that most people are only linking with Smich. JMO

I'm confused, was there a gun link in LB's case? I thought the gun link was WM and the gangster with the tattooed face. Is the link that MS and MWJ were good friends?

I don't think that we know enough to say what the link is between MS and LB was, just because there are no social media pictures of them together doesn't mean much, there was only one of DM and her in the same picture from what I recall. We only know about the calls to DM because SL told the media, but I think that was before MS was arrested and perhaps SL just never knew MS's phone number to recognize it on the bill or not.

And I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree about the impulsive, dark and violent stuff being tied to DM, when so far, other than the charges against him, we have gathered that he is a pilot, he likes skydiving, racing, building vehicles and renovating homes, and as far as I know, all those things take skills and planning, they are not impulsive activities. You cannot go for a flight on impulse like it's a car ride, you have to plan and file a flight plan and get clearance, even skydiving requires you pass a course first, that's not impulsive. Impulsive is spray painting your street name on an overpass, in my opinion.

All my opinion only.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm confused, was there a gun link in LB's case? I thought the gun link was WM and the gangster with the tattooed face. Is the link that MS and MWJ were good friends?

I don't think that we know enough to say what the link is between MS and LB was, just because there are no social media pictures of them together doesn't mean much, there was only one of DM and her in the same picture from what I recall. We only know about the calls to DM because SL told the media, but I think that was before MS was arrested and perhaps SL just never knew MS's phone number to recognize it on the bill or not.

And I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree about the impulsive, dark and violent stuff being tied to DM, when so far, other than the charges against him, we have gathered that he is a pilot, he likes skydiving, racing, building vehicles and renovating homes, and as far as I know, all those things take skills and planning, they are not impulsive activities. You cannot go for a flight on impulse like it's a car ride, you have to plan and file a flight plan and get clearance, even skydiving requires you pass a course first, that's not impulsive. Impulsive is spray painting your street name on an overpass, in my opinion.

All my opinion only.

bbm: my thoughts too!

Maybe, the connection LB+DM was formed by MS - who knows. There are drugs playing a role, therefore the union LB/MS (perhaps plus MWJ) possibly came first?

Who knows, whether LB perhaps also acted in a music video like MS? I could also imagine the Suicide Girls and fotoshooting was a connection from LB --->MS --->DM, although we haven't seen a picture of LB. The lifestyle and character of LB and MS seems to fit much more better than LB+DM (couch surfing etc.); perhaps both at some day were thankful for meeting a "normal" guy with some money/cars and opportunities for LB/MS to experience carefree party times with a friend like him?

 

[matou]

When contacted by the Star on Friday, Mathew Odlum, 27, confirmed his charge of trafficking a firearm was linked to the police case against Millard.

“I think you might think that I’m a little more involved in this than I am,” Odlum said. “We’re going years back, this is from two or three years ago.”

Odlum said his understanding is that police allege he illegally sold a gun to Millard. When pressed for details, he quickly got off the phone, saying he wanted to speak to a lawyer.

.......

According to the information filed in court, Odlum is co-accused with two others: Matthew Ward-Jackson, 26, of Mississauga, and Matthew Jackson Wawrykiewicz, 28, of Aurora.

Ward-Jackson is additionally charged with two other firearm trafficking offences from February and September 2012.

All three names appear on a newly filed list of people Millard and Smich have been ordered by the court not to have any contact with.

Police allege all three trafficked a gun between June 1, 2012, and July 30, 2012.

This article by the Spec more that suggests that the gun was linked to Laura's death IMO.

DM can PLAN and be impulsive at the same time. He's a good multi-tasker. JMO

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...efore-she-was-reported-missing-police-allege/

 

[Juballee]

I didn't see any mention of a connection to LB in that quote, other than perhaps the date of her disappearance was somewhere within the 2 month period when they suspect the gun was bought.

Planning and acting impulsively are two completely different modes of operation. One cannot plan an impulse, the two are opposites according to most.

All my opinion only.

 

[Tamarind]

This article by the Spec more that suggests that the gun was linked to Laura's death IMO.

DM can PLAN and be impulsive at the same time. He's a good multi-tasker. JMO

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...efore-she-was-reported-missing-police-allege/

What makes you focus on DM from that article? From what I see, Odlum was accused of trafficking a gun. To me, that would indicate that fingerprints belonging to Odlum ( and possibly MWJ ) were likely on a certain gun. A gun that at some time was likely passed around as a showpiece. That DM and MS are linked to this, may indicate that they at some time had held the gun or in DM case possibly the gun found at his home that was frequented by many.

This in no way singles out DM in my opinion. In fact I find it points to others that have been involved in other crimes. DM may have been used as a base for some for sleeping when homeless, parties and possibly storing of contraband. He did say he felt used. Criminals do have a habit of putting all evidence away from themselves, like storing at others homes, even without that persons knowledge, from what I have read. Just my opinion, but I feel quite valid.

 

[Arnie M]

.

On the subject of phones ....

Boy I wish we could get a glimpse behind the scenes as police work on this case. But that will not happen so it is left up to our imagination for now

Obviously police have the records for the burner phone used to call Tim and the other truck owner , depending if they left the phone on or not , police would be able to map out some locations when it was used. I wonder if DM ever used it from near his home or hangar , he may never have considered it could come back to haunt him

And then his personal cell phone , if it was left on during the drive to TB's or to the other test drive it would also make a nice map for police to use in court.

Even to the smallest detail , the call on the anonymous phone to TB would have been made a couple of hours earlier , and if DM's personal cell was pinged to the same area police could use that in court.

That would also apply to MS's phone if he had one , and for all we know police could have mapped out the drive when DM picked up MS and then headed to Trinity Road .

They may have been "smart enough" to turn them all off during those times but I doubt it , they would be counting on the anonymity of the disposable phone to keep them in the clear.

 

[Kamille]

What makes you focus on DM from that article? From what I see, Odlum was accused of trafficking a gun. To me, that would indicate that fingerprints belonging to Odlum ( and possibly MWJ ) were likely on a certain gun. A gun that at some time was likely passed around as a showpiece. That DM and MS are linked to this, may indicate that they at some time had held the gun or in DM case possibly the gun found at his home that was frequented by many.

This in no way singles out DM in my opinion. In fact I find it points to others that have been involved in other crimes. DM may have been used as a base for some for sleeping when homeless, parties and possibly storing of contraband. He did say he felt used. Criminals do have a habit of putting all evidence away from themselves, like storing at others homes, even without that persons knowledge, from what I have read. Just my opinion, but I feel quite valid.

When contacted by the Star on Friday, Mathew Odlum, 27, confirmed his charge of trafficking a firearm was linked to the police case against Millard.

“I think you might think that I’m a little more involved in this than I am,” Odlum said. “We’re going years back, this is from two or three years ago.”

Odlum said his understanding is that police allege he illegally sold a gun to Millard. When pressed for details, he quickly got off the phone, saying he wanted to speak to a lawyer.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...efore-she-was-reported-missing-police-allege/

Seems like it is singling out DM to me. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[swedie]

Regarding the burner phone, once again there is strong indication DM was the user, likely the owner of that phone. LE were able to learn immediately where the signals were bouncing off of towers once they got the production order. From what we have gathered, it seems MS was no longer living with DM prior to and at the time of TB's murder. Apparently living in DM's basement was short lived. If my theory is correct, MS moved out shortly after WM was murdered. Why? Did he suspect DM murdered his father? Was he somewhat fearful of DM after that? But he continued to chum with DM because DM had something to offer and his suspicion, well he brushed it off?

LE refer to the two men because of the fact two men were last seen with TB. Once DM was arrested, it was apparent as to why signals where bouncing off of towers in Etobicoke, DM lived there while MS was living in Oakville. Once again solid information of who the mastermind was in planning. I do not see a framing aspect whatsoever, nilch, zip, nadda. It did not happen that way. DM has not been able to point a finger at who the framer(s) could be, there is no information in MSM directing anyone to believe such and the Crown and AG have legit reason according to evidence to show who is responsible for TB's murder.

IMO people can deny DM's involvement until the cows come home, but all the reports and LE information and facts leads directly to DM, all stars align. Repeatedly, desperately some have tried to disprove or minimize DM's involvement, but it keeps coming back to him being guilty. All the nay sayers can continue to try and discredit and play devil's advocate all they desire, but in the end it won't change the outcome of what happened to WM, LB and TB. Personally I refuse to defend evil, cold blooded, murderers. There is justifiable reasons why DM is sitting in jail right now awaiting his fate and it's not because of unreasonable doubt IMHO. I DO NOT believe anyone will be shocked when guilty verdicts are handed down, but there certainly will be shock when evidence is provided during the trial for TB. The shock being at how evil and mentally deranged some individuals can be while seeming to be outwardly somewhat normal.

Just because DM hasn't had his day in court and pleads not guilty means diddly squat, guilt is guilt. Trials just bring forth evidence. This is a very common occurrence for murderers to plead not guilty. What other option does DM have? He is going on the slimmest sliver of hope there will be that one naive and/or foolish juror. I cannot see it happening as the evidence will be overwhelming strong. But who can blame him for trying. It's like playing the lottery, the deck is stacked against DM, but it beats a sentence of 25 years, to the rest of his life in prison right? ALL JMHO.

May 10, 2013
Bosma’s own cellphone was turned off shortly after his disappearance and the phone believed to be used by the two men was only active for three months – its signal bouncing off cell towers in Etobicoke – before it was also disconnected, Kavanagh said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_hold_out_hope_for_hamilton_mans_return.html

“Fate is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?” he said, adding that police found that Toronto man through calls on a disposable cellphone traced to Mr. Millard.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

 

[Tamarind]

When contacted by the Star on Friday, Mathew Odlum, 27, confirmed his charge of trafficking a firearm was linked to the police case against Millard.

“I think you might think that I’m a little more involved in this than I am,” Odlum said. “We’re going years back, this is from two or three years ago.”

Odlum said his understanding is that police allege he illegally sold a gun to Millard. When pressed for details, he quickly got off the phone, saying he wanted to speak to a lawyer.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...efore-she-was-reported-missing-police-allege/

Seems like it is singling out DM to me. :waitasec:

MOO

Yes I read it Kamille. Thank you. Odlum confirmed a charge of trafficking.
So he was charged, not yet convicted??. He says it was a few years ago. Even if convicted that tells me that at some point that gun was in his hands and that he was part of something by his own admission. He says police are alleging he sold the gun to DM. Again this tells me that Odlums prints are on the gun (along with a few others no doubt, IMO), and that the gun has possibly been found at a place connected to DM, either hidden, stored in plain sight or whatever. JMO The police are trying to make this fit to the charge against DM. However, no real details are being given out, so in my opinion others are connected to this and just because someone (O )claims that they are not more involved than people think they are, does not mean they aren't involved. JMO

When pressed for details, he runs. Why would you need a lawyer to talk to the Star?

 

[Tamarind]

Regarding the burner phone, once again there is strong indication DM was the user, likely the owner of that phone. LE were able to learn immediately where the signals were bouncing off of towers once they got the production order. From what we have gathered, it seems MS was no longer living with DM prior to and at the time of TB's murder. Apparently living in DM's basement was short lived. If my theory is correct, MS moved out shortly after WM was murdered. Why? Did he suspect DM murdered his father? Was he somewhat fearful of DM after that? But he continued to chum with DM because DM had something to offer and his suspicion, well he brushed it off?

Well if its alleged he was with DM on May 6th 2013, he must have gotten over his fear of DM quickly if thats what we are supposed to go on. We have no idea when or why MS moved out from what I have read. Maybe MS had just had a falling out with his mother, much like LB. DM kindly put a roof over his head for a time. What is the strong indication that DM was the user of the burner phone?

LE refer to the two men because of the fact two men were last seen with TB. Once DM was arrested, it was apparent as to why signals where bouncing off of towers in Etobicoke, DM lived there while MS was living in Oakville. Once again solid information of who the mastermind was in planning. I do not see a framing aspect whatsoever, nilch, zip, nadda. It did not happen that way. DM has not been able to point a finger at who the framer(s) could be, there is no information in MSM directing anyone to believe such and the Crown and AG have legit reason according to evidence to show who is responsible for TB's murder.

A lot of people live in Etobicoke and many more pass through so just because someone lives somewhere doesn't necessarily mean they are the obvious one to blame for phone usage. IMO
Lets hope the disclosure sheds light. But according to DM it's not likely to. JMO

IMO people can deny DM's involvement until the cows come home, but all the reports and LE information and facts leads directly to DM, all stars align. Repeatedly, desperately some have tried to disprove or minimize DM's involvement, but it keeps coming back to him being guilty. All the nay sayers can continue to try and discredit and play devil's advocate all they desire, but in the end it won't change the outcome of what happened to WM, LB and TB. Personally I refuse to defend evil, cold blooded, murderers. There is justifiable reasons why DM is sitting in jail right now awaiting his fate and it's not because of unreasonable doubt IMHO. I DO NOT believe anyone will be shocked when guilty verdicts are handed down, but there certainly will be shock when evidence is provided during the trial for TB. The shock being at how evil and mentally deranged some individuals can be while seeming to be outwardly somewhat normal.

Naturally the charges will 'point' to DM and/or MS. Why would they charge unless they could make it seem so? I don't defend evil cold blooded murderers either once I know thats what they are. I do defend people who quite possibly are innocent. Nay sayers are those who refuse to be forced to agree with those opinions that are spoken as truths , but that are just opinions. Nay sayers are trying to get to the truth by seeking out the truth and not blindly believing all they read. I dont believe anyone with an opinion is or should be called desperate HTH MOO

Just because DM hasn't had his day in court and pleads not guilty means diddly squat, guilt is guilt. Trials just bring forth evidence. This is a very common occurrence for murderers to plead not guilty. What other option does DM have? He is going on the slimmest sliver of hope there will be that one naive and/or foolish juror. I cannot see it happening as the evidence will be overwhelming strong. But who can blame him for trying. It's like playing the lottery, the deck is stacked against DM, but it beats a sentence of 25 years, to the rest of his life in prison right? ALL JMHO.

How do you know the evidence will be overwhelmingly strong? I am still looking for such strong evidence from the media information to date and I am still unable to see anything that points squarely to DM, and I can't include the obviously placed evidence on his property as that seems too planned. JMO HTH

May 10, 2013
Bosma’s own cellphone was turned off shortly after his disappearance and the phone believed to be used by the two men was only active for three months – its signal bouncing off cell towers in Etobicoke – before it was also disconnected, Kavanagh said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_hold_out_hope_for_hamilton_mans_return.html

“Fate is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?” he said, adding that police found that Toronto man through calls on a disposable cellphone traced to Mr. Millard.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ird-suspect-in-bosma-killing/article12370401/

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yes I read it Kamille. Thank you. Odlum confirmed a charge of trafficking.
So he was charged, not yet convicted??. He says it was a few years ago. Even if convicted that tells me that at some point that gun was in his hands and that he was part of something by his own admission. He says police are alleging he sold the gun to DM. Again this tells me that Odlums prints are on the gun (along with a few others no doubt, IMO), and that the gun has possibly been found at a place connected to DM, either hidden, stored in plain sight or whatever. JMO The police are trying to make this fit to the charge against DM. However, no real details are being given out, so in my opinion others are connected to this and just because someone (O )claims that they are not more involved than people think they are, does not mean they aren't involved. JMO

I don't know where you get the idea that there were fingerprints on the gun or that LE ever found the gun at all. It's also entirely possible that MO never touched the gun at all.

When pressed for details, he runs. Why would you need a lawyer to talk to the Star?

Because what you tell the Star can be used against you in court? CN deferred to her lawyer as well.

 

[Tamarind]

I don't know where you get the idea that there were fingerprints on the gun or that LE ever found the gun at all. It's also entirely possible that MO never touched the gun at all.Because what you tell the Star can be used against you in court? CN deferred to her lawyer as well.

I said it was my opinion. Much like all the other hypothetical opinions that are posted here ! It is entirely possible that anything is possible. I agree. MOO.

 

[matou]

The officer who arrested the three Matthews over the gun is the investigator who had taken over Babcock's case . There is obviously a link here.

On Tuesday, three men were brought before a Toronto court to face charges of weapons trafficking. The arresting officer was Const. Jennifer Cash, who took over Babcock’s missing persons file before homicide’s Det. Mike Carbone was put in charge.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...efore-she-was-reported-missing-police-allege/