Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 1/29 thru 2/2 - Break

[Katharine]

I absolutely do. The evidence is clear that he did allow it. Why? Many reasons. He is a man. Most likely he hadn't had sex with anyone since she left in April. It's June 4! He's about to go to Cancun with a girl who had just punted him into the Friend Zone. Here comes Jodi...she's sorry! She feels so bad about the fight! She even brought a check for the car! Oh...by the way...she's freshly waxed and...brought the KY! She wants to see his new camera and take some pics like they spoke about three weeks ago...come on Travis!
In the same fight where he called her out for invading his privacy he tells her that she knows he will always take her back. She knew alright. She counted on it. They had sex, took pics. Trust? It was his camera. They either deleted them together or he knew he'd do it when she left.

This has been my contention also. You hit every area I have thought about, including the fact that it was his camera, the new camera (not hers) as in let us try out your new camera or can I (JA) try out your new camera. It would seem like that she would have needed some what of a crasher course to the new camera to take the shower scene photos. He was definitely weak when it came to her and despite everything that had previously transpired, her unique manipulation skills of knowing just how to play Travis won him over. I do think that all evidence as in all of the sex photos have not been given in public evidence (introduced to the Court). Yes, Flores was using certain police techniques to get her to confess, but I do think everyone (both PT and DT) knows they did have some kind of sex that day on June 4, 2008. (JMO)

 

[tlckgram]

When reading this motion that JA filed in October 2013 to remove kirk nurmi, she talks in it about Nurmi not being nice to her when she freaked out in response to her DT deciding to play the sex tape in open court. Remember back to the day they went into chambers and all of sudden court was cancelled? it wasn't a migraine, it was her flipping out about the upcoming sex tape. This motion she wrote is pretty informative about some things. If you have time, read it.

Jodi Arias letter.pdf (not sure if this is going to be a link...but I tried)http://www.businessinsider.com/jodi-arias-wants-to-fire-kirk-nurmi-2013-10

 

[cindymac]

Hiya Elle! I'm not sure if you meant to quote my post instead of ICit's but I'll comment on point 3/sequence anyhow since I like ya so much.

I wonder what changed JM's mind about gunshot first/last, in the 8/7/09 evidentiary hearing JM was arguing it was first (mentioned on page 2, second paragraph of this minute entry:

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/082009/m3846408.pdf

It's hard to believe it was to throw the defense off course and make Nurmi blow a gasket (which he's still doing over this) but what in the evidence would make JM decide a month before trial that it was really last instead of first? In light of this though, we know his view of the sequence is able to change, just wish we knew why in the gunshot area.

I think it's largely explained by context.

The Minutes relate to the State's intent to seek the death penalty. The key objective in that context was to establish the existence of aggravating factors - notably, that the murder was "especially cruel". To this end, what mattered most was establishing that Travis suffered, and actual sequencing was not especially important - it was especially cruel regardless of actual sequencing.

Also, at that time - August 2009 - Arias was still sticking to her ninja story.

When she changed to the self-defense story, a new context emerged - one in which sequencing became very important, as a means to evaluate her story. And, on closer scrutiny, it became apparent (from medical testimony, blood spatter analysis, etc.) that the actual sequence of events was different, not only from Arias' version, but from any rough-and-ready notions formed by the State in the early days of the trial.

Defense was not able (by any means) to credibly rebut the state's assertion that the gun shot must have been last. And it's difficult to imagine why on earth they they would want to. After all, what's to be gained by saying that Travis was shot but conscious, and then stabbed 27 times?!

Nothing of course, but they had to dispute it anyway, in an effort to give some semblance of truth to Arias' version of events.

 

[ElleElle]

We know the gunshot didn't happen first because JA said it did.

The truth about JA and TA will always be the opposite of what she claims.

BBM ~ True, but originally so did LE.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

This is not dated but I think it's 2-23-08

she mentioned Ruby Tuesday

"I'm driving to Las Vegas tonight. It reminds me of Rich Webster. He's from Vegas. There's definitely potential there. She goes on about how much she likes his philosophies, and that he's more conservative than her. She ends with - Anyway, hopefully the drive won't be too long.

The entry for Sunday 2-24-08 Well, I'm still in Las Vegas, I'm going to a family ward today. I would of chosen a singles ward. but yesterday Gus Searcy expressed mild interest when I mentioned I am a Mormon. He said he almost became a Mormon once. So I jumped on the opportunity and invited him to come along. So one down and 2 to go on my goal this year of inviting 3 non members to church. That makes me happy. He would've gotten baptized if it weren't for some missionary telling him he couldn't have cards . That's rediculous. In fact I don't know which is more rediculous a missionary telling him he'd have to give up his deck of cards to join the church (that's after talking most of the discussion ) or Gus choosing a deck of cards over the church.


I've always believed Gus Scercy was in there somewhere drooling all over Jodi, and he didn't like Travis.

Jodi writes that she was to of met up with Gus on her trip to Utah/Mesa. I wonder what she was picking up at Gus's?

 

[ElleElle]

The bullet didn't ricochet. It was lodged in Travis's left jaw and showed very little signs of deformity. If it had ricocheted it would have been obviously deformed. The handgun ejects the spent casing out of the pistol after it's fired, then it landed on top of the blood. I believe that he was shot last to silence the sounds or noises that his body was still making (Air escaping his lungs and gurgling sounds) even after the throat slashing. The angle in that pic would be the same if she were standing over him at the shower after dragging his body back there.

Maybe it was second shot? We don't know how many bullets were in the chamber. She could of shot a second time. JMO

 

[Hatfield]

Until just now I've always thought the gunshot could have been first, despite the shell casing on top of pooled blood or any other kind of logic or evidence or forensics to suggest otherwise. But I'm now 99.99% sure the gunshot was last and here's why...

#1- she liked knives so she took her rage out on him with what she got off using, and torment him at the same time

#2- she probably wanted to make it look like two people killed Travis, and a gunshot would help do that

#3- even though a gunshot wasn't even necessary after that bloodbath, a shot to the side of the head was probably her final "FU" to him

Just thinking about all that gives me the creeps. C'mon jurors... don't fail us and don't fail the Alexander family.

Ok and #4- because she said it wasn't

Good points.

I agree she wanted to make it look like 2 killers. I also wonder if she maybe shot last because she didnt want the sound of the gun to alert neighbors or anyone else. I kind of wonder if maybe that was like the last thing she did right before leaving. She may have even cleaned up already, showered, changed clothes, and been ready to walk out the door and did the shot right before she left because she knew the sound would be loud.
I have always wondered if she left wearing dark ninja type clothes. It is too bad someone in the neighborhood did not notice the person leaving Travis house that day.

For my personal opinion on it, I think I have resigned myself to always stay on the fence about it. I flip-flop too much about it.

 

[MeeBee]

I still believe gunshot was first. Occam's Razor.

There is also a damaged bathroom tile that to me, looks like a bullet ricocheted, which could of caused the bullet casing on top of the blood.

This is what I can picture what happened, and why else would she steal the gun?

View attachment 68560

I now believe it was first too. I can understand why Dr. Horn believes it was last, but I think this is one of those weird instances where something unusual happened. Jodi used an old gun that was already a low caliber. It his brain but it grazed it. The disorientation and confusion placed Travis at a severe disadvantage while trying to defend himself from the knife attack. The gun probably jammed or the gun hurt her hand. And imo, it doesn't change the cruelty of it. It actually makes it worse. Travis may have been able to fight her off if he hadn't been shot first.

The gun was first. Jodi has been telling us all along.

 

[ElleElle]

Say what? Ricocheted? The bullet was still in TA head. It didn't ricochet at all. :what:

I should have been more clear, a second shot. Not the one lodged in his jaw.

 

[cindymac]

During the original trial, the DT fought hard to exclude Jodi's reactions on the sex tape, they only wanted Travis's parts played, which would make him look really bad out of context, not that Jodi was asking him leading questions and to repeat himself because she didn't hear it loud enough. To me this proves she planted to do just that and blackmail him if she hadn't decided to kill him. She could've sent it to anyone to destroy him, whether it be his bishop or prospective new girlfriends. I also think she caught him offguard sleepy in bed when she took the nude shots of him, posed the KY as a prop, and took the ones of herself nude on a timer (selfies laying down). Doesn't prove to me that they had sex the day she killed him.

BBM

TOTALLY agree.

 

[RickshawFan]

Isn't it a caldera like the Valles Caldera here in New Mexico?

I believe that's what you'd call it, but I don't know a whole lot about calderas. The center of the volcano blew up and left a rim with water in it. Santorini is a caldera, but the rim doesn't go all the way around. At Crater Lake, the rim goes all the way around.

Try this for an idea of what the rim looks like from a turnout (the road is one way only):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Skell_Head_viewing_area_above_Crater_Lake.jpg

 

[ElleElle]

I now believe it was first too. I can understand why Dr. Horn believe it, but I think this is one of those weird instances where something unusual happened. Jodi used an old gun that was already a low caliber. It his brain but it grazed it. The disorientation and confusion placed Travis at a severe disadvantage while trying to defend himself from the knife attack. The gun probably jammed or the gun her hand. And imo, it doesn't change the cruelty of it. It actually makes it worse. Travis may have been able to fight her off if he hadn't been shot first.

The gun was first. Jodi has been telling us all along.

I also agree that it does not change the mitigating factors. The fact that she had him defenseless, cornered in a shower stall with a weapon is good enough for me, and to add the stab wounds and throat slit, that is the worst of the worse especially cruel and heinous acts one can commit.

 

[RickshawFan]

The entry for Sunday 2-24-08 Well, I'm still in Las Vegas, I'm going to a family ward today. I would of chosen a singles ward. but yesterday Gus Searcy expressed mild interest when I mentioned I am a Mormon. He said he almost became a Mormon once. So I jumped on the opportunity and invited him to come along. So one down and 2 to go on my goal this year of inviting 3 non members to church. That makes me happy. He would've gotten baptized if it weren't for some missionary telling him he couldn't have cards . That's rediculous. In fact I don't know which is more rediculous a missionary telling him he'd have to give up his deck of cards to join the church (that's after talking most of the discussion ) or Gus choosing a deck of cards over the church.


I've always believed Gus Scercy was in there somewhere drooling all over Jodi, and he didn't like Travis.

Jodi writes that she was to of met up with Gus on her trip to Utah/Mesa. I wonder what she was picking up at Gus's?

I'm gathering Gus is a gambler.

 

[TorisMom003]

If this was possible why would the prosecution have not brought it up?

IMO, because bringing this up could then call into question the accidental pictures taken of JA dragging Travis back to the shower.

 

[Wing Ding]

I wonder if Travis felt horribly betrayed by his great friends, Chris & Sky?

I think the Hugeses did what they could to warn Travis about Jodi, and protect him from her.

TA may have felt betrayed at first when Sky told JA she wasn't welcome at their house, but I think when TA realized JA wasn't marriage material for him, he was probably thankful Chris and Sky intervened. TA was probably more mad at himself for being too nice to JA. Once she got a taste of the good life, his good life, she just wouldn't leave him alone.

 

[Hatfield]

I think the Hugeses did what they could to warn Travis about Jodi, and protect him from her.

TA may have felt betrayed at first when Sky told JA she wasn't welcome at their house, but I think when TA realized JA wasn't marriage material for him, he was probably thankful Chris and Sky interceded. TA was probably more mad at himself for being too nice to JA. Once she got a taste of the good life, she just wouldn't leave him alone.

I often wonder at when was the first time that Travis began disliking JA. Like what was the first thing that really happened that Travis began not liking her.

Wonder if it was 1 episode of something she did OR maybe he found out she was spying on him or something like that. From her perspective she obviously did not want the relationship to go sour so she most likely was being nice to him.

At some point things changed to where she was doing evil things to him like slashing tires, and he began telling her to stay away and stuff.

So I often wonder what was the first thing that happened that made things go sour. It may have not been just one thing either. Perhaps Travis just began to realize she was not all there in the head and he tried to distance himself and she would not accept that.

 

[geevee]

I think it's largely explained by context.

The Minutes relate to the State's intent to seek the death penalty. The key objective in that context was to establish the existence of aggravating factors - notably, that the murder was "especially cruel". To this end, what mattered most was establishing that Travis suffered, and actual sequencing was not especially important - it was especially cruel regardless of actual sequencing.

Also, at that time - August 2009 - Arias was still sticking to her ninja story.

When she changed to the self-defense story, a new context emerged - one in which sequencing became very important, as a means to evaluate her story. And, on closer scrutiny, it became apparent (from medical testimony, blood spatter analysis, etc.) that the actual sequence of events was different, not only from Arias' version, but from any rough-and-ready notions formed by the State in the early days of the trial.

Defense was not able (by any means) to credibly rebut the state's assertion that the gun shot must have been last. And it's difficult to imagine why on earth they they would want to. After all, what's to be gained by saying that Travis was shot but conscious, and then stabbed 27 times?!

Nothing of course, but they had to dispute it anyway, in an effort to give some semblance of truth to Arias' version of events.

Agreed, it would be silly and counterproductive for defense to argue that she intentionally inflicted those stab wounds on a gunshot-wounded man, but my point was this in the minute entry:

"The State presented evidence that the victim was first shot in the right side of his head near his eye with a .25 caliber handgun and that the bullet lodged in his left cheek. This wound was not fatal and may or may not have rendered the victim unconcious."

So what evidence did the prosecution present to show the gunshot came first, and why did they change their opinion not long before trial? It seems an even stronger argument for cruelty if she disabled him first and stabbed him countless times afterwards, so why change the order? I just find it confusing, that's all.

 

[Ransom]

I should have been more clear, a second shot. Not the one lodged in his jaw.

What second shot? Where did that come from? TA had one bullet in his head. ONE casing was on the floor. IF there was a second shot, where is the casing? TIA

 

[mugwump*]

When reading this motion that JA filed in October 2013 to remove kirk nurmi, she talks in it about Nurmi not being nice to her when she freaked out in response to her DT deciding to play the sex tape in open court. Remember back to the day they went into chambers and all of sudden court was cancelled? it wasn't a migraine, it was her flipping out about the upcoming sex tape. This motion she wrote is pretty informative about some things. If you have time, read it.

Jodi Arias letter.pdf (not sure if this is going to be a link...but I tried)http://www.businessinsider.com/jodi-arias-wants-to-fire-kirk-nurmi-2013-10

Also interesting in this motion is the tidbit about confiscated books with writing comparing Buddhism and Christianity. Interesting because in one of the first days of trial she talks about Matt Mc exploring these things. Perhaps another kind of "code" was developed.

Almost all of her complaints have been given free rein in this penalty phase, so far "her way" looks like it's not such a good idea.

 

[Hatfield]

I now believe it was first too. I can understand why Dr. Horn believes it was last, but I think this is one of those weird instances where something unusual happened. Jodi used an old gun that was already a low caliber. It his brain but it grazed it. The disorientation and confusion placed Travis at a severe disadvantage while trying to defend himself from the knife attack. The gun probably jammed or the gun hurt her hand. And imo, it doesn't change the cruelty of it. It actually makes it worse. Travis may have been able to fight her off if he hadn't been shot first.

The gun was first. Jodi has been telling us all along.

I had brought up an example earlier of how the casing could end up in the blood the way it did and also the shot still coming first.

During the 1st trial, I remember some of us describing another way it could have happened with the shot coming first and the shell casing still ending up that way.
You reminded me about it regarding the old gun with such a small caliber.

A small caliber .25 automatic can sometimes be prone to jam for a couple different reasons.
1-Like you mentioned since the gun was an older gun and if it had not been cleaned and oiled then it may have been prone to jam. OR
2-if JA bought ammo for it that was "regular" grain gunpowder and not like a "high magnum" gunpowder it would be more prone to jam. You can buy ammo with varying amounts of gunpowder and the less gunpowder then the more chance an automatic will be prone to jam. Because an automatic needs the blast of the shell to automatically *advertiser censored* back the action. I have a .22 automatic handgun that jams unless I buy a certain type of ammo for it. Once I get this certain ammo, it works fine. Im not sure if JA found shells when she stole the gun but if JA had to buy shells, then she may have just bought typical regular shells with basic amount of gunpowder and it may have jammed on the 1st shot.

Back to shell casing in blood.
So if JA shot him first, and the gun jammed and she could not fire another round, then TA may have stumbled out of the shower and JA drops the gun to run the other way. She then retrieves another weapon (Knife) and begins to finish him off. Then after all is over, she picks up gun and works the action to free the jammed shell casing which could have still been stuck in gun (Ive had this happen before) and it flies onto the floor in the pool of blood.