Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 12/19-1/5 Break

[neesaki]

I'm watching a good movie about Marie Hilley -- the woman who poisoned her husband to death and then tried to poison her daughter as well. She reminds me so much of Arias. She is manipulative, cruel, uses sex to seduce men and... she even paints! I am so glad that Arias never had the chance to become a mother. Can you imagine the way she would used and then discarded her own babies? How scary. She can still get pregnant and give birth in prison but I doubt she'll be allowed to have any meaningful contact. The one thing that puzzles me is why Arias never used the old 'I'm pregnant with your baby' excuse to get Travis to marry her. She could have even faked it given her expertise in all that is fake and phony. I do think that she murdered Travis because he threatened to expose her evil-doings. I don't think jealousy was the only reason or even the main one. It's really upsetting to think about how lucky she turned out given the risks she took during that trip. Those gas cans could have caused an explosion but they did not. Travis could have successfully defended himself but he did not. A neighbour could have heard the screams and called 911 but I guess no one heard anything. Just so many things worked in her favour. :gaah:

I'm surprised she didn't try the fake pregnancy trick as well. Very scary thought thinking of that creature as a mother. Btw, What's the name of the Marie Hilley movie, sounds like something I want to see. TIA :seeya:

 

[Kensie]

I'm surprised she didn't try the fake pregnancy trick as well. Very scary thought thinking of that creature as a mother. Btw, What's the name of the Marie Hilley movie, sounds like something I want to see. TIA :seeya:

Wasn't that the lady from Alabama that was captured in New Hampshire?

 

[Ricki]

Hope I am in Texas for the holidays and just read this post. So here is my dilemma. Chris Hughes supposedly has a wealth of information about Jodi just like your post above and yet JM will not call him as a witness. This is beyond d strange to me. Something is either not right with the Hughes or with the witness list JM is using. What gives?

Who exactly is on his witness list. Karp, Demarte, Searles...who else?
The defense team is trying to keep Demarte off the stand. We all know why. I have read there are others they don't want on the stand. Who? Why, because it is going to blow their defense to smithereens.

 

[krkrjx]

Who exactly is on his witness list. Karp, Demarte, Searles...who else?
The defense team is trying to keep Demarte off the stand. We all know why. I have read there are others they don't want on the stand. Who? Why, because it is going to blow their defense to smithereens.

Under what circumstances might the DT be successful in keeping DeMarte off the witness stand? Or any other state witnesses, for that matter?

 

[geevee]

Awww, c'mon. You find it hard to believe that she found how to cure yourself of pedophilia pamphlets at the mall?

I found this pic in one of the PB albums during the first trial (disneymom's, I think), it was unlabeled but was among pics taken in Travis' garage/exterior:



Close up:



Maybe that's where she got the idea of the 'pedo pamplets'. We do know she stopped at a CVS on her way through southern California (but no clue what she bought as that part of the receipt wasn't shown), I tend to doubt she was the one who threw this bag away but it wouldn't surprise me if she looked through his trash.

 

[TexMex]

I agree the stun gun does not fit. But it is being considered because there are so many things that don't fit...one being the timeline itself!

I wonder how he got into a sitting position in the shower. I do not believe for a minute he sat voluntarily. If she was threatening him with a weapon, some might think he would obey but I just don't see it. He was confined in that tiny shower and I cannot even imagine him making himself an even easier target by sitting. Something happened that made him go from standing to sitting. And then...he managed to get himself out of the shower from that sitting position. The blood at the sink tells us he was injured as he lept out of the shower or very soon after. Seems to me that if he knew he had to try to make a break for it, he would have known that a minute earlier too, and would have tried for escape rather than following her orders. And furthermore, there is just no way, no way at all, that his sitting was part of a "photo shoot in the shower." That just does not even compute as in such a cramped space there is no room at all for any type of photogenic pose.

Just sayin...I don't believe the stun gun stuff just because she wrote about it. But she subdued him somehow in a way that got him from standing to sitting, but temporarily enough that he was able to at the very least crawl out of the shower to the sink and from there get down the hallway. And to be honest, it looked to me like he had to be on his feet after the shower--the blood evidence at the sink area points to that.

Stun guns come in varying degrees of potency, do they not? Not sure how much a low voltage one might incapacitate or for how long. I am not above saying she might have used one that day. I am not even sure there would be evidence of it--maybe it would leave some mark but possibly so minor that one would actually have to be looking for that. Given his other injuries and obvious that some were fatal, they may not have looked too extensively for anything else.

All of that is MOO.

Any potency would stun him for 20-30 seconds. No room for that in the timeline. IMO he wasn't subdued and forced to sit. It wasn't a real photo shoot. She was stalling, gathering up the nerve to stab a human in the heart. He maybe was getting annoyed...he'd been "posing" for 8 minutes! He complains and she is crouching, snapping pics and she says...sit here one second and let's see how these look..so he does. He's complying, trying to be nice. He knows she's leaving soon so humor her.
The evidence just doesn't support it. Plus it's just another post murder invention in Jodi's Journals.
The ME goes over every inch of his subject. He's not going to miss stun gun wounds. He documented every bruise or wound he saw

 

[rose222]

I agree the stun gun does not fit. But it is being considered because there are so many things that don't fit...one being the timeline itself!

I wonder how he got into a sitting position in the shower. I do not believe for a minute he sat voluntarily. If she was threatening him with a weapon, some might think he would obey but I just don't see it. He was confined in that tiny shower and I cannot even imagine him making himself an even easier target by sitting. Something happened that made him go from standing to sitting. And then...he managed to get himself out of the shower from that sitting position. The blood at the sink tells us he was injured as he lept out of the shower or very soon after. Seems to me that if he knew he had to try to make a break for it, he would have known that a minute earlier too, and would have tried for escape rather than following her orders. And furthermore, there is just no way, no way at all, that his sitting was part of a "photo shoot in the shower." That just does not even compute as in such a cramped space there is no room at all for any type of photogenic pose.

Just sayin...I don't believe the stun gun stuff just because she wrote about it. But she subdued him somehow in a way that got him from standing to sitting, but temporarily enough that he was able to at the very least crawl out of the shower to the sink and from there get down the hallway. And to be honest, it looked to me like he had to be on his feet after the shower--the blood evidence at the sink area points to that.

Stun guns come in varying degrees of potency, do they not? Not sure how much a low voltage one might incapacitate or for how long. I am not above saying she might have used one that day. I am not even sure there would be evidence of it--maybe it would leave some mark but possibly so minor that one would actually have to be looking for that. Given his other injuries and obvious that some were fatal, they may not have looked too extensively for anything else.

All of that is MOO.

I agree. No way would Travis have voluntarily sat down with Arias cornering him like that. She ordered him to sit down. This is why she needed a gun--the great equalizer. What can you do if someone with a gun orders you to sit down?She had to have had a gun pointed at him for him to, against all instinct and common sense, agree to sit down and be more vulnerable. How was she able to switch weapons and stab him first? The gun shot was last. I wonder how he managed to get out of the shower stall while she barely had a finger cut. Did she leave the bathroom for a few moments only to return and find him at the sink? And, also, it's puzzling that this entire scenario took place in two minutes. The only thing I know for sure is that she murdered him three times over on June 4, 2008. The rest of the details of that day are still murky.

 

[rose222]

I'm surprised she didn't try the fake pregnancy trick as well. Very scary thought thinking of that creature as a mother. Btw, What's the name of the Marie Hilley movie, sounds like something I want to see. TIA :seeya:

I sent you a pm, neesaki.

 

[Ricki]

Under what circumstances might the DT be successful in keeping DeMarte off the witness stand? Or any other state witnesses, for that matter?

I don't think they will be successful at all. It is a foolish motion. It is just more time wasting, which they do excellent.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

Who exactly is on his witness list. Karp, Demarte, Searles...who else?
The defense team is trying to keep Demarte off the stand. We all know why. I have read there are others they don't want on the stand. Who? Why, because it is going to blow their defense to smithereens.

One other was the Bishop's wife, and another was a forensic documents expert for the state (presumably to testify about the forged pedo letters and/or journal entries). I believe there was one other who was another friend of Travis, or the ex roommate maybe?

 

[Dmacky]

Who exactly is on his witness list. Karp, Demarte, Searles...who else?
The defense team is trying to keep Demarte off the stand. We all know why. I have read there are others they don't want on the stand. Who? Why, because it is going to blow their defense to smithereens.

For some reason I thought Dr. Karp was a psychologist who interviewed JA for the Defense ? Didn't she became ill or something I do remember Demarte indicating that she had reviewed an evaluation by Karp in which JA claimed much more abuse.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Day #19



"The jury was dismissed for lunch and Judge Stevens stayed the court. We were given a treat that the jury missed.

Juan Martinez stood up and took a few steps in front of the prosecution table, facing Dr. Geffner. He wore a gray suit with yellow shirt and a spotted design gold tie.

“Did you interview Travis Alexander?” Mr. Martinez pointedly asked.

Dr. Geffner nervously laughed. “Well, no,” he said. “I couldn’t do that.”

“Did you speak with Mr. Alexander?” Juan asked as he took a step forward.

“That’s kind of ridiculous,” he answered. “He was already gone.”

Juan Martinez stood his ground as he stared at the doctor. “Did you use the word ‘manipulative’ in regards to Travis Alexander?”

The Dr. answered and there was the slightest undertone of nervousness. “No, I don’t remember saying that.”

“Aren’t you labeling his conduct by using the word, ’manipulative’?” he asked, obviously ignoring the doctor’s memory loss of testimony he had just given minutes before the jury was dismissed.

“It could be interpreted that way,” he relented with a shrug of his shoulders.

Willmott stood up in her deep aqua colored business skirt suit. “This is discovery and not a cross-examination!” she said vehemently.

“Go on,” Judge Stevens motioned to Martinez. Jennifer Willmott remained standing, waiting to pounce.

Juan Martinez did not look at her. He looked at the judge before he continued his cross examination. He opened his arms with his palms opened and slightly turned outward, looking at the doctor. “Is saying a ‘manipulative’ relationship a diagnosis?”

Dr. Geffner looked toward the judge and saw no help being offered. He looked back at Juan Martinez as if he understood his semantics mistake. “I was looking at all the information. So, no. It’s a general behavior I may have perceived. It is not a diagnosis.”

Juan Martinez did not thank him. He turned on his heel and went back to the prosecution table while Jennifer Willmott glared at him.

Judge Stevens recessed the court for lunch. It was really an early Christmas gift from the friendly doctor seeing Martinez take a sample of his eventual prey. Dr. Geffner collapsed like a house of playing cards. His confidence seemed weak and his laugh was nervous with an artificial hollowness. It was going to be a bloodbath."

 

[Nali87]

I haven't been keeping up. Is JW done with Dr. Gefner?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I haven't been keeping up. Is JW done with Dr. Gefner?

No, she is not. Hopefully there isn't much more he can add to his mounting pile of BS.

 

[TxJan1971]

For your viewing pleasure :thinking: (and my personal "Holiday" gift to ya'all) :santahat:

I will be posting in a few seconds a 23-page "Transcript of the Recorded Phone Interviews with Detective Flores/Jodi from June 10, 21 (vm) & 25, 2008."

This transcript will be available over on the "Transcripts of the Interrogations of Jodi Arias" Thread, which has all the transcripts from JA's in-person interrogation with Det. Flores.

As you will see, there were numerous places when I couldn't hear or decipher the exact words. I "yellow highlighted" those areas. If anyone wants to take a listen to see if you can help figure out what I missed, please have a go at it and let me know and we can add it.

It truly was riveting for me to revisit/transcribe those phone conversations. There was a lot that I didn't remember and a lot of "tells..." Her demeanor throughout the entire transcript was utterly disturbing/chilling. I heard absolutely no genuine sadness, sorrow, remorse whatsoever throughout 21 pages of her incessant rambling. Never once did I hear or feel any type of sadness that the man she so loved had been murdered. It was just a another day in her neighborhood and she was good to go as long as she could hear herself talk. Just mind boggling...

Also, I have two other transcripts almost ready to post that I will add A.S.A.P. - one from her first day on the stand (w/ Nurmi) and the other from her first day of Cross with Juan. I need to fine tune them before I add them. May or may not be today.

Justice for Travis...

 

[krkrjx]

It is possible he attempted to humor her and sat at her command when she showed the gun. Maybe he tried to plead with her, to reason with her, to remind her they were friends and they could work this out, or some such thing. And maybe she turned away for a millisecond to go from gun to knife, and that's when he was able to make an escape. All I know is when I look at evidence photos I cannot see that he was seated, crawling or even on his knees when at the sink. He made it there and back on his feet somehow, maybe while being attacked the whole way. But he didn't have only superficial wounds at the sink--there was blood spray so he had a serious wound while standing there. He could have sustained it prior or as he stood there although that would be more difficult to believe since she would have been coming at his back or his side, not facing his chest.

I think he did drop to his knees and crawl away after the sink. She stabbed him in the back and head, then got the better of him and he could not resist anymore once he could no longer feels his legs, and we know what happened next.

I guess we would all like to understand, though probably never will really know, what all happened. Likely the level of evil Killer Arias possesses is what accounted for her ability to butcher a man who was totally conscious and aware of what was going on and walk away with no more than a cut finger. It is difficult to grasp that such evil exists in our society--but clearly it does.

 

[Bernina]

Posted a few days ago on the side bar about the "Stun Gun"............and Yes or No got me grounded again, "The Book of Jodi" aka "All Aboard the Crazy Train".

I've had a stun gun for about 8 years. Never used it. Just triggered it a few times to check out the "noise" it makes.

I'm not saying CMJA used a stun gun, just putting out a "what if":

This is a stun gun:

They work best on bare flesh. The grips are made of non-conducting material so you don't inadvertently shock yourself when you "fire" it. This is NOT a Taser that shoots 2 electrical filaments with metal prongs (and a bunch of "dots" that can trace the Taser to it's owner).

What if.....and bear with me..........TA is in the shower, CMJA hits him with the Stun Gun, not only bare flesh but WET bare flesh. CMJA's hand is "grounded" by the grip. (Notice most of the shower pics had TA with his arms up? Exposing the nerve centers that make the best contact point)

The best points of contact would be the upper hip, below the rib cage or the upper shoulders. This is due to there being nerve centers at those points, however the stun gun will work when touched at any point of the body. If touched to an arm or leg - it will stun that limb but it may not affect their whole body. As a rule of thumb - aim for any area on the torso. Hold the stun gun against the assailant as long as is necessary to incapicitate them and allow you to escape. (1-5 seconds depending on voltage)
While using you cannot suffer a charge back to your own body, even if the assailant is holding you.

http://www.actionstunguns.com/howtousestungun.htm

TA slumps into the shower stall,

The pulsed current causes muscles to work super fast, depleting them of needed blood sugars*. It also interrupts the tiny neurological impulses that control muscle movement. The results are disorientation and loss of balance. The entire process takes only a few seconds and is very painful. It can disable a person for up to 30 minutes.

http://www.milestonesafety.com/stun-...formation.html

* Read an article on the effects and the blood sugar returns to normal very quickly, lost the link, grrrr! so it's not detectable in an autopsy.

CMJA goes all stab happy, one glove and her finger get cut cause she is MAD, TA isn't making a sound because he's gotten big time electrocuted. She ASSUMES he going to bleed out, the End. And she made sure she had her latex gloves on, you know, the ones she has BOXES of.

CMJA goes back to the room to do a clean up of any of her stuff, (she may have been the one who stripped the bed while TA went to take a shower) while TA has somewhat "come to", in a daze, the shower has flooded parts of the bathroom (the soaked boxes in the closet) because his body was on the drain. He struggles to the sink and then tries to make it to his bedroom to his phone. Blood trail as he tries to steady himself with the wall.

CMJA catches site of TA, grabs the knife, stab, stab, stab, to his back, she's going gonzo and she already stashed the Taser in her pack. TA makes an effort to turn over, he can't breath, CMJA goes for his throat. Now she's got to drag him back to the bathroom because she doesn't want someone finding him in the hall. Her adrenaline is pumping. Oops, used the wall to steady herself, BAM, bloody palm print, both blood types, she forgot to put another pair of gloves back on when she grabbed the knife.

TA is still breathing and starting to moan, CMJA stuffs him in the shower........CMJA goes back to her pack, grabs her gun, and shoots him (could she have used one of the decorative pillows? She's made the whole situation pretty quiet so far). Shell casing falls in blood pool not effected by the overflowing shower. Starts using towels to mop up......

Oh CRAP, the camera, totally misses the shell casing, grab some gloves, duh, Jodie, "delete, delete, delete", ah screw this, throw it in the washer, she removes the bedding into the dryer and puts various items in the washer with the camera. Put in half a container of bleach, shut the lid, turn on the washer.......................and off to Utah.

*I thought of this as I was taking a shower......the "Stun Gun" revelation in CMJA's journals really stuck with me.*

And.............who brings a stun gun to a knife fight? Cause wasn't that what TA would actually be doing if he borrowed it to "catch" the slasher? I mean, COME ON!

Why wouldn't JM get into the stun gun:

1. No proof CMJA ever owned one other than her word (no receipt, registration, photo, eye witness, or actual stun gun)

2. No way to prove it was used, by the ME, through the autopsy (decomp)

Some people thought it was a stretch connecting her gramp's gun to the crime:

1. CMJA was living in G & G's house when the .25 was stolen

2. Police report of the "stolen gun" (staged and all)

3. Shell casing and bullet left at the scene

but no one could actually put the gun in her hand, had seen her with it, or the gun recovered........took one of those "walk on the beach, footprints in the sand" conclusions.

JM picks the most damning evidence and scenario that can't be explained away easily by the defense. He chose the palmprint w/both blood types, the photos w/timestamps, and the stolen .25 cal. (and CMJA's own words in the Flores interview) to put CMJA at the crime doing the deed. JM didn't get into the knife, how she surprised him when the murder started, or what happened second by second during the actual crime or cleanup "in detail" because, again, "beach", "footprints", just "make it simple" and "connect the dots".

I'm just throwing out a possible hypothesis on how the murder happened within JM's portrayal. If there was more evidence of a stun gun, JM would have probably used it. It will be really interesting if Flores or JM write a book about this, or comment on what they regarded or disregarded during the investigation and why.


Again, this is just pretending that CMJA *might* be telling the truth about the stun gun.

Yeah, right.

 

[krkrjx]

Bernina, I am also in the "what if" mode. It is not totally out of the question, imo. It's just weird that she would make any reference to a stun gun. I know she is a liar and even lied to her journals but don't all liars intertwine bits of truth? Even the totally delusional Casey Anthony sprinkled bits of truth here and there.

 

[Bernina]

Bernina, I am also in the "what if" mode. It is not totally out of the question, imo. It's just weird that she would make any reference to a stun gun. I know she is a liar and even lied to her journals but don't all liars intertwine bits of truth? Even the totally delusional Casey Anthony sprinkled bits of truth here and there.

Unfortunately, only the killer knows for sure. A "good" liar stays as close to the truth without implicating themselves, CMJA just isn't that "good" at it but she does drop a few things here and there.

 

[daisydomino]

I haven't been keeping up. Is JW done with Dr. Gefner?

It didn't seem like it to me. When they left off they were still in JA's journals and the text and phone messages from April 2008.