SC - Heather Elvis, 20, Myrtle Beach, 18 Dec 2013 - #4

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escape2sc said:
I had a very intense conversation with a friend in LE..making every arguement I could think of for LE to obtain the records of the cell phone towers where HE's phone pinged during a certain time. Answer was the same for every arguement. LE has to have probable cause , cannot go on a fishing expedition and hope something turns up. Invasion of privacy issues.

I disagreed and felt it was no different than LE investigating a crime at a business and running all the fingerprints found there. And that since everyone knows their phones ping off cell phone towers , IMO they waive the privacy issue if they didn't turn their phone off by said tower.
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I just spoke with one of my cousins. He told me the same thing you & CC880 said. I then showed him what Topcat found and he said he'd have to read up on it but that's not the way it's handled around our county. So now my question is could both be right and maybe the rules change from state to state? Or no? If its law, wouldn't that be nationwide? Is there a way to find out if it actually changed the law for good and pull up the new statute? What Topcat pulled looks legit.
 
Jerseygirl.. One issue, I believe, is there is no evidence , that we know of, that a crime has been committed..

My contact did say, the FBI could probably access those records easier than the local LE..but still no evidence of a crime..yet
 
Myrtle Beach is a convention town also!
Maybe they need to check the schedule of the conventions at the center and see if any of them mesh!
 
Jersey*Girl said:
I just spoke with one of my cousins. He told me the same thing you & CC880 said. I then showed him what Topcat found and he said he'd have to read up on it but that's not the way it's handled around our county. So now my question is could both be right and maybe the rules change from state to state? Or no? If its law, wouldn't that be nationwide? Is there a way to find out if it actually changed the law for good and pull up the new statute? What Topcat pulled looks legit.
Click to expand...


I guess the best way to find out is someone call T Mobile ATT or Verizon and see if you can get her cell phone records. When they say no just give them that article. :floorlaugh:

Ok sorry had to give my brain alittle release.

It all boils down to reasonable expectation of privacy.
 
Cgs said:
Thanks Foxfire and Jersey Girl...I wasn't one of the smokers (17 months smoke free, whoop whoop!). Sorry if I gave the impression that I was, or that I was ok with people smoking out there!
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You didn't give that impression at all. :)
 
CC880 said:
I guess the best way to find out is someone call T Mobile ATT or Verizon and see if you can get her cell phone records. When they say no just give them that article. :floorlaugh:

Ok sorry had to give my brain alittle release.

It all boils down to reasonable expectation of privacy.
Click to expand...

Lol

Escape just mentioned FBI could pull those records. I wonder if they're working behind the scenes, not public yet. Would that be a common thing or do they wait to be professionally asked for assistance? Wouldn't it depend on the circumstance?
 
Topcat said:
this was a court decision based on a 2010 case. This ruling stands as law..
in a misguided 2-1 decision, the Fifth Circuit reversed the privacy-protective lower court opinions and instead ruled the government did not need a search warrant to access historical cell site records. That's because the court focused not on what the data revealed -- a person's location over an extended period of time -- but rather on who owned and generated that data: the cell phone providers. Since these records were owned and created by the phone providers, the user has no expectation of privacy in them and thus no search warrant was needed to access that data.

keep in mind the article was written with a bias against the courts ruling.
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But only in the 5th Circuit's area of jurisdiction, which does not include South Carolina (which is the 4th Circuit):

The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit (in Case citation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, 5th Cir.) is a Federal judiciary of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia with Appellate jurisdiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia over the United States district court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in the following Southern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia United States federal judicial district - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

The court is composed of seventeen active judges and is based at the John Minor Wisdom United States Court of Appeals Building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in New Orleans, Louisiana, with the clerk's office located at the Felix Edward Hébert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Federal Building in New Orleans.[1] It is one of thirteen United States courts of appeals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also, if you read further in the article, it talks about the need for a search warrant in New Jersey, which would be the 3rd Circuit.


It will not apply to the nation unless the Supreme Court of the US reviews and upholds the ruling.


Salem
 
Jersey*Girl said:
Lol

Escape just mentioned FBI could pull those records. I wonder if they're working behind the scenes, not public yet. Would that be a common thing or do they wait to be professionally asked for assistance? Wouldn't it depend on the circumstance?
Click to expand...

I would think HCPD pulled everything from the wireless provider within the first 24 hours. And probably that of a POI or Suspect as well.
 
escape2sc said:
I had a very intense conversation with a friend in LE..making every arguement I could think of for LE to obtain the records of the cell phone towers where HE's phone pinged during a certain time. Answer was the same for every arguement. LE has to have probable cause , cannot go on a fishing expedition and hope something turns up. Invasion of privacy issues.

I disagreed and felt it was no different than LE investigating a crime at a business and running all the fingerprints found there. And that since everyone knows their phones ping off cell phone towers , IMO they waive the privacy issue if they didn't turn their phone off by said tower.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make me feel any better. (Not your fault, though.) I would think that by allowing your phone to be on and sending a signal to a tower, this should not require a search warrant. NOW, if LE wants to listen in on a conversation, maybe they can make an argument for a SW. But to simply determine a location AFTER the fact, I would think that is fair game. Kind of like LE going through your trash after you've thrown it out - once it is out on the curb it is fair game!
 
Salem said:
But only in the 5th Circuit's area of jurisdiction, which does not include South Carolina (which is the 4th Circuit):

The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit (in Case citation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, 5th Cir.) is a Federal judiciary of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia with Appellate jurisdiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia over the United States district court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in the following Southern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia United States federal judicial district - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

The court is composed of seventeen active judges and is based at the John Minor Wisdom United States Court of Appeals Building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in New Orleans, Louisiana, with the clerk's office located at the Felix Edward Hébert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Federal Building in New Orleans.[1] It is one of thirteen United States courts of appeals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also, if you read further in the article, it talks about the need for a search warrant in New Jersey, which would be the 3rd Circuit.


It will not apply to the nation unless the Supreme Court of the US reviews and upholds the ruling.


Salem
Click to expand...

Salem, you ROCK! I'm saving this to my bookmarks for further cases too! Thank you so much!
 
Welcome!!! Glad you joined us!!​
emeraldisle said:
Hi I'm new here! I've read through everything posted and it's gotten so frustrating that nothing else has been told to the public,nothing to go on at all really! But my god u lot are fantastic,bright,caring and well I think u are all brill!! I hope I can add something somewhere sometime in this mighty site! :) xx
Click to expand...
 
JnRyan said:
That doesn't make me feel any better. (Not your fault, though.) I would think that by allowing your phone to be on and sending a signal to a tower, this should not require a search warrant. NOW, if LE wants to listen in on a conversation, maybe they can make an argument for a SW. But to simply determine a location AFTER the fact, I would think that is fair game. Kind of like LE going through your trash after you've thrown it out - once it is out on the curb it is fair game!
Click to expand...

But IMO its a catch 22 bc anyone can search anybody's location can be found simply by searching the data with their pictures if they have a smart phone with location services turned on. You don't need to be a cop to do it.
 
JnRyan said:
That doesn't make me feel any better. (Not your fault, though.) I would think that by allowing your phone to be on and sending a signal to a tower, this should not require a search warrant. NOW, if LE wants to listen in on a conversation, maybe they can make an argument for a SW. But to simply determine a location AFTER the fact, I would think that is fair game. Kind of like LE going through your trash after you've thrown it out - once it is out on the curb it is fair game!
Click to expand...

I also just confirmed with someone hi up with VZW even the account holder cannot get this information like the tower pings or locations and this request if referred to the LE division of the wireless provider.
 
escape2sc said:
Jerseygirl.. One issue, I believe, is there is no evidence , that we know of, that a crime has been committed..

My contact did say, the FBI could probably access those records easier than the local LE..but still no evidence of a crime..yet
Click to expand...

Not to make light of it, but if the NSA can pull everyone's records, Horry Country LE should be able to get a ping from a cell phone tower...especially since the girl is reported as missing.
 
JnRyan said:
That doesn't make me feel any better. (Not your fault, though.) I would think that by allowing your phone to be on and sending a signal to a tower, this should not require a search warrant. NOW, if LE wants to listen in on a conversation, maybe they can make an argument for a SW. But to simply determine a location AFTER the fact, I would think that is fair game. Kind of like LE going through your trash after you've thrown it out - once it is out on the curb it is fair game!
Click to expand...

That argument might possibly apply if there was any evidence that a crime had been committed.
 
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