SC - Heather Elvis, 20, Myrtle Beach, 18 Dec 2013 - #4

[Topcat]

Seems right. Like I know sometimes mine will be dark on the desk and suddenly light up for no reason. Wonder if its pinging.

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it can be a app receiving info....

 

[SharetheLight]

That doesn't make me feel any better. (Not your fault, though.) I would think that by allowing your phone to be on and sending a signal to a tower, this should not require a search warrant. NOW, if LE wants to listen in on a conversation, maybe they can make an argument for a SW. But to simply determine a location AFTER the fact, I would think that is fair game. Kind of like LE going through your trash after you've thrown it out - once it is out on the curb it is fair game!

I agree because the argument can always be made that your phone was somewhere but you weren't with it. So if LE did obtain info that your phone was in a certain area that alone doesn't definitively mean you were. Other evidence would be needed.

The thing I worry about is if they do look at records of tower pings, let's say the person whose phone also pinged on that tower at the same time is local to the landing area. I don't know what type of square area the towers cover but what if whoever was with Heather, IF someone was with Heather, lived in the same area that tower covers then they may be discounted because their phone pings there all the time.
Does this make sense?

I do feel if foul play was involved, the person is local to the landing area or used to be local to that area.


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[JnRyan]

Here is case where the secret service was brought into help with cell phone analysis.

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2013/05/jessica_heeringas_abduction_in.html

THAT was where I first heard about it!!! And that is what I hope they do here!

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I just thought of something! Would it be possible to pull the data of Heathers last postings to find out if she was actually home when she posted those pictures? Or wouldn't it show her location in the metadata of the pics bc she only reblogged them? Would she have to personally take her own pictures with her phone & post online in order to gather the geo data of the pics?

 

[jkloc420]

THAT was where I first heard about it!!! And that is what I hope they do here!

There is so much technology that can used in missing person cases. It's just certain people abuse that power. Basically what can be used to help is used for the wrong reasons.

 

[Topcat]

I also just confirmed with someone hi up with VZW even the account holder cannot get this information like the tower pings or locations and this request if referred to the LE division of the wireless provider.

Tower dumps( data such as numbers/locations) have been a tool used by LE without warrants for the last 20 years.....

 

[Topcat]

I just spoke with one of my cousins. He told me the same thing you & CC880 said. I then showed him what Topcat found and he said he'd have to read up on it but that's not the way it's handled around our county. So now my question is could both be right and maybe the rules change from state to state? Or no? If its law, wouldn't that be nationwide? Is there a way to find out if it actually changed the law for good and pull up the new statute? What Topcat pulled looks legit.

this quote may clarify the laws and how it's interpreted:

"Its been up to state courts and legislatures to proactively protect people's location privacy while federal courts are reluctant to act, relying on the third party doctrine to reject a search warrant requirement for the data."

emphasize proactively

 

[Topcat]

this quote may clarify the laws and how it's interpreted:

"Its been up to state courts and legislatures to proactively protect people's location privacy while federal courts are reluctant to act, relying on the third party doctrine to reject a search warrant requirement for the data."

emphasize proactively

the third party is the local/state governments..if they don't legislate laws protecting peoples cell phone privacy the Federal government won't step in and do it.

 

[passionflower]

To all people who have missing loved ones, bless your hearts, I don't know how you can ever cope or be the same again. This is so depressing, no answers at all............

 

[margarita25]

For HE's cellphone, yes. But what about going to the carrier(s) and see which cellphones pinged in the area of PTL during that general time frame? What about in the vicinity of where her cellphone last pinged? (If it happens to be in the city, though, this maybe like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.)

<respectfully snipped>.

I assumed this was being done already, immediately after her car was found at PTL.


Can somebody please do me a favor-- I'm trying to help shed some light on some of the cell phone, ping, warrant discussions here. There is a list of many of the specific warrants, as attachments, somewhere around this page: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201717&page=14 from Jessica Ridgeway's case which shows how LE virtually immediately secured warrants for every cellphone carrier to show everyone's cellphones who pinged in the area during a certain window (must have been thousands of numbers to look through).... I am trying to find the posts but am getting too sick and upset over there, I just can't do it right now, I tried...I think a link to these warrants will help clear some things up here. (Foxfire, you were there during the ARS verdict, you know what I'm talking about...)TIA

*warning, it is extremely graphic over there. Do not go over there unless you are willing to be scarred for life. That's why I say someone should go over there who has already been over there and can "handle it", know what I mean.

 

[passionflower]

IIRC...Scott Peterson (they knew where his cell phone (s) were pinging..........way before his arrest.

 

[Salem]

I just spoke with one of my cousins. He told me the same thing you & CC880 said. I then showed him what Topcat found and he said he'd have to read up on it but that's not the way it's handled around our county. So now my question is could both be right and maybe the rules change from state to state? Or no? If its law, wouldn't that be nationwide? Is there a way to find out if it actually changed the law for good and pull up the new statute? What Topcat pulled looks legit.

The Feds have been able to get the tower dumps for some time under a 1986 law. But it didn't apply to state and local jurisdictions. Each jurisdiction has had to wage their own fight. As often happens, some will use the methods and won't bother to fight for them until they are caught and called on the carpet, so to speak. Then they will go to court - which is what happened in the 5th Circuit.

According to the article I linked up thread, South Carolina has been using tower dumps and now they are being called on the carpet for it. So So. Carolina is going to have to court and push the issue and get a ruling for the local jurisdictions.

New Jersey has already been to court and the state of New Jersey requires a search warrant based on probable cause.

Every jurisdiction is different until the Supreme Court speaks on the issue. I don't think that has happened yet.

So yes, both posters could be right.

Salem

ETA: here's the article again: http://reason.com/blog/2013/12/04/police-use-tower-dumps-to-collect-your-c

 

[andalso]

I do know for a fact LE is reading here. jmo

Well then, here goes.

Dear Law Enforcement Officer,

I am struggling. I struggle watching Heather's families anguish and pain. I struggle to understand what could have happened to her and where she could be. I struggle to understand why you are keeping the public in the dark about this case. I do know you are struggling too. I just want to make you aware that we at Websleuths are here to help, but in order to do so, we need some more details and facts. Would a press conference be too much to ask?

Thank you kindly,
andalso (proud websleuther)

 

[margarita25]

They don't even have to have a POI---they can just look at everyone's phones who pinged there from every carrier (after they get the info from the carriers via warrant), then go from there...(a needle in a haystack task!!)

 

[zelmajane]

I'm sitting at my MIL's reading this thread. She asked what I was reading. Then said she had a friend murdered in MB in 1972! Her case was solved. She said it was an airman, but it was completely random. She walked over the dune from a party with girlfriends and he stabbed her to death.

Not trying to take away from HE's thread, but just thought it was interesting.

 

[passionflower]

I'm thinking of the Drexel's searching for HE and their dear little girl's bones may be what searchers have found also. Bittersweet............prayers

 

[Cgs]

I have a question that's been on my mind since Heather's very first thread. I feel sort of ignorant asking it but its a legitimate question that concerns me. It's actually something that's come up in my church and it sort of itched me...

There are 186 registered sex offenders in Myrtle Beach alone. Idk how many are in Horry County (could be more than double the amount) as I only searched Myrtle Beach at the moment. This is a very religious area, state for that matter. Churches teach forgiveness and not to judge, that there's a higher power to do that, to give people a chance to turn over a new leaf and make a positive difference. Churches tend to bring everyone together as an extended family: worshipping together, mourning together, celebrating together, etc. Well my question is what about if that leads people to let their guard down around these offenders? Is it possible an offender could have gone to her church and befriended her family? Her family seem very spiritual, religious, like they have an aura surrounding them that says they only try to think good things & do good things. Idk. Like, they seem genuinely good. Could somebody have taken advantage of their trust? This is speculation, I know, but its also something that's real. I mean, I guess sex offenders have to go to church too, idk. All I know is that I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable sharing a pew with somebody that raped somebody else and I wouldn't want my kids around them. Is that a very bad Christian thing to say, to judge somebody like that, to be that protective? Or is that non Christian? I wonder if there was anybody that targeted her that could have been an offender and if so where would they see her? Church? Her job? Are sex offenders allowed to attend church if children are there.

Wow, such good questions...I don't think it's bad or judgmental at all, very legitimate concerns. As a parent I certainly wouldn't want my kids around any registered sex offenders! But even though I'm signed up for email alerts when one registers within a certain radius from me I'm horrible with faces and could be talking to one in line at the grocery store and not even know it...ugh! From what I've read and after watching today's interview I agree that Heather's family seem like such kind and good people and I could definitely see them helping someone they thought was in need and getting taken advantage of (to say the least.)

 

[passionflower]

I'm sitting at my MIL's reading this thread. She asked what I was reading. Then said she had a friend murdered in MB in 1972! Her case was solved. She said it was an airman, but it was completely random. She walked over the dune from a party with girlfriends and he stabbed her to death.

Not trying to take away from HE's thread, but just thought it was interesting.

WOW! did they get the sicko??

 

[eileenhawkeye]

WOW! did they get the sicko??

Yeah, I think this is an article about it:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...oEsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=V80EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3423,3629340

ETA: They've also been showing a Forensic Files on HLN recently about a woman who was murdered in Myrtle Beach...Heather Stigliano

 

[Topcat]

interesting read re:cellphone and your right to privacy

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gIHoDQ&usg=AFQjCNGOlMxn6GY9igVtKVV4EZynsvHfpw