SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #2

[Diddian]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Am I correct that this criminal defense attorney had already been engaged to defend PM in the criminal case before PM was killed? If so, it may be that AM involved him in handling the reward and speaking on the family's behalf simply because they had already established a relationship when he was representing PM.

Edit to add link (see caption below photograph, Griffin was PM's criminal defense attorney):
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article252101158.html

 

[stmarysmead]

Am I correct that this criminal defense attorney had already been engaged to defend PM in the criminal case before PM was killed? If so, it may be that AM involved him in handling the reward and speaking on the family's behalf simply because they had already established a relationship when he was representing PM.

Or he could be a family friend that offered to help. That happens when tragedies strike.

 

[T rex]

If targeted, there is a long list, IMO
But who would benefit the most ???
if not benefit, then who would be the must disgruntled to maybe "even" a score or get revenge ??

Those are my 2 thoughts with #1 being the main motive at this time.

Those are some good reasons, there could possibly be a few more.

What if, and I'll be as vague as possible, PM knew something about something and had confided in his mother about it and she was encouraging him to do the right thing but this right thing wasn't going to happen as long as a certain someone was still around but when they were gone all bets were off?
Theres something strange about the timing of all this. For some reason I get the feeling whatever the evidence was LE found in regards to the SS case was about to come out anyway.
I don't know why, I just do. I think something was coming to a head.

 

[Barry]

Strictly my on thought on this. I can't quite make the pieces work in my mind with all the localized drama that had been going on for years. The revenge factor for the cases we know about doesn't seem to support not waiting it out on some of the proceedings, legal and civil (but the SS case reopening is interesting). I can't shake the feeling that given the M's MO with legal proceedings, that somewhere along the line they may have stepped on some bigger toes. MOO.

 

[stmarysmead]

When I look at the photos we have of this place…the isolation…it makes me think these killings were not planned. How easy it would have been to drive in there at midnight and kill AM with PM and MM!

I am beginning to think the provocation for this was recent. If MM ran the household, it could be a fired employee that came back to retrieve something that person thought he was owed or thought was his….and the confrontation began with MM.

At the moment, my guess is that she pulled out her phone to call someone, maybe police… and it was taken from her. Then discarded as the killers left. I do think there were two of them.

Hadn’t PM jumped in to help his Father in a physical fight with someone recently? Maybe he likewise was defending his Mother.

just some speculation and opinion this morning….

 

[MoeInVA]

I agree with @stmarysmead that I am leaning toward unplanned murders. I see this as a recent disagreement/altercation as she described above OR as a robbery gone wrong.

Given the unconfirmed reports that two different fire arms were used, I am leaning toward a robbery gone wrong with multiple perpetrators. Also given all the meth arrests in the area, a meth fueled robbery seems to fit.

The hour of the killing seems a bit early for a robbery (or planned assassination) though, so that is one point toward the disgruntled employee/ recent altercation scenario. It would just have been getting dark at 9pm.

Like some others my initial thought was murder-suicide for many reasons. I still think that makes the most sense, but of course that is much less likely since we learned both suffered more than one pre-mortem gun shot wound. Multiple gunshot wound suicides are not unheard of (with both shot gun and assault rifle and with wounds in one or more locations), but statistically multiple wounds makes suicide much less likely than homicide.
JMO

 

[Sustained]

I agree with @stmarysmead that I am leaning toward unplanned murders. I see this as a recent disagreement/altercation as she described above OR as a robbery gone wrong.

Given the unconfirmed reports that two different fire arms were used, I am leaning toward a robbery gone wrong with multiple perpetrators. Also given all the meth arrests in the area, a meth fueled robbery seems to fit.

The hour of the killing seems a bit early for a robbery (or planned assassination) though, so that is one point toward the disgruntled employee/ recent altercation scenario. It would just have been getting dark at 9pm.

Like some others my initial thought was murder-suicide for many reasons. I still think that makes the most sense, but of course that is much less likely since we learned both suffered more than one pre-mortem gun shot wound. Multiple gunshot wound suicides are not unheard of (with both shot gun and assault rifle and with wounds in one or more locations), but statistically multiple wounds makes suicide much less likely than homicide.
JMO

If it was a planned robbery, why were PM/MM killed down by the kennels and not at the main house ? What was stolen ? Why didn't the killer(s) take MM's car ? And why so early and why when AM/MM/PM were staying @ Moselle ?

If it was a murder-suicide, how did MM's phone get out on the highway outside the property ? What would be the motive for a murder-suicide from either MM/PM ?

Given that PM was severely disfigured by the shotgun blasts, I still see this a targeted hit on PM with MM as collateral damage.

 

[sunshineray]

What I am saying is that we shouldn't begin making speculations based on pre-supposing that official facts are false.

Once a statement has been proven false, scrutiny can be fully focused there. That's sleuthing.

Yes but so is questioning and confirming. Don't get the wrong ideas about where my head is at, I'm a firm supporter of LE. I also think bad cops need to be exposed so the good guys don't get lumped in by association.

I think this area/county of SC needs a big magnifying glass laid on it's LE. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I agree with @stmarysmead that I am leaning toward unplanned murders. I see this as a recent disagreement/altercation as she described above OR as a robbery gone wrong.

Given the unconfirmed reports that two different fire arms were used, I am leaning toward a robbery gone wrong with multiple perpetrators. Also given all the meth arrests in the area, a meth fueled robbery seems to fit.

The hour of the killing seems a bit early for a robbery (or planned assassination) though, so that is one point toward the disgruntled employee/ recent altercation scenario. It would just have been getting dark at 9pm.

Like some others my initial thought was murder-suicide for many reasons. I still think that makes the most sense, but of course that is much less likely since we learned both suffered more than one pre-mortem gun shot wound. Multiple gunshot wound suicides are not unheard of (with both shot gun and assault rifle and with wounds in one or more locations), but statistically multiple wounds makes suicide much less likely than homicide.
JMO

It's possible Mom got stuck in the middle of a situation created by her son Paul. In a portion of the depositions released from the lawsuit Paul had pending, his girlfriend stated he was involved with marijuana and cocaine.

Depositions shed new light on the death of Lowcountry teen | WSAV-TV

IMO when you have people who readily make available such things and you have people with lots of money to spend and a young partying attitude...it can cause violence at some point if thos two worlds clash. AJMO

 

[stmarysmead]

It's possible Mom got stuck in the middle of a situation created by her son Paul. In a portion of the depositions released from the lawsuit Paul had pending, his girlfriend stated he was involved with marijuana and cocaine.

Depositions shed new light on the death of Lowcountry teen | WSAV-TV

IMO when you have people who readily make available such things and you have people with lots of money to spend and a young partying attitude...it can cause violence at some point if thos two worlds clash. AJMO

This is very possible as well.

 

[MoeInVA]

If it was a planned robbery, why were PM/MM killed down by the kennels and not at the main house ? What was stolen ? Why didn't the killer(s) take MM's car ? And why so early and why when AM/MM/PM were staying @ Moselle ?

If it was a murder-suicide, how did MM's phone get out on the highway outside the property ? What would be the motive for a murder-suicide from either MM/PM ?

Given that PM was severely disfigured by the shotgun blasts, I still see this a targeted hit on PM with MM as collateral damage.

All just guesses/ theories - answering in line below.
If it was a planned robbery, why were PM/MM killed down by the kennels and not at the main house ? What was stolen ? Why didn't the killer(s) take MM's car ? And why so early and why when AM/MM/PM were staying @ Moselle ?
My theory is a meth fueled robbery so not really a planned thing. Just a theory: Cash, valuables that can be traded or sold for drugs, and/or drugs may have been stolen. It is common for people to trade stolen goods for drugs.

If it was a murder-suicide, how did MM's phone get out on the highway outside the property ? What would be the motive for a murder-suicide from either MM/PM ?

Just a theory as two family members are found dead murder suicide is a common reason. The family and especially PM seemed to be under a lot of stress. PM is said to have extreme anger issues when drinking. I could see someone with extreme anger issues shooting a family member and then regretting it and then staging the scene to make it look like they did not commit the murder. It could have been a dispute over his drinking or his need to go to rehab or anything really. 9 pm would be a fitting time frame for an alcohol fueled dispute. MOO

Given that PM was severely disfigured by the shotgun blasts, I still see this a targeted hit on PM with MM as collateral damage.
It’s certainly possible! Typical shotgun would suggest shot from a distance has a bigger entrance wound. However a contact wound to the head can be extremely destructive and disfiguring.

It’s hard to know since we have so little information.

 

[sandy_80]

surprising intruders/ home invasion seems the most likely
followed by..argument with someone they know
I still can't wrap my head around.. what is said about powerful family that rules the town and the fact is that , this has been too easy just by the look of it .. unless its an inside job

 

[Sustained]

All just guesses/ theories - answering in line below.
If it was a planned robbery, why were PM/MM killed down by the kennels and not at the main house ? What was stolen ? Why didn't the killer(s) take MM's car ? And why so early and why when AM/MM/PM were staying @ Moselle ?
My theory is a meth fueled robbery so not really a planned thing. Just a theory: Cash, valuables that can be traded or sold for drugs, and/or drugs may have been stolen. It is common for people to trade stolen goods for drugs.

If it was a murder-suicide, how did MM's phone get out on the highway outside the property ? What would be the motive for a murder-suicide from either MM/PM ?

Just a theory as two family members are found dead murder suicide is a common reason. The family and especially PM seemed to be under a lot of stress. PM is said to have extreme anger issues when drinking. I could see someone with extreme anger issues shooting a family member and then regretting it and then staging the scene to make it look like they did not commit the murder. It could have been a dispute over his drinking or his need to go to rehab or anything really. 9 pm would be a fitting time frame for an alcohol fueled dispute. MOO

Given that PM was severely disfigured by the shotgun blasts, I still see this a targeted hit on PM with MM as collateral damage.
It’s certainly possible! Typical shotgun would suggest shot from a distance has a bigger entrance wound. However a contact wound to the head can be extremely destructive and disfiguring.

It’s hard to know since we have so little information.

More thoughts and questions ...

If it was a drug-related robbery, why would LE state there is no danger to the community ?

If it was a murder-suicide, the weapons would have belonged to the M's and why would AM offer a $100K reward for info to catch the killer(s) ? Since both victims had multiple gunshot wounds, a murder-suicide is highly improbable.

Now if you were to tell me that PM was killed over a drug dispute and MM was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I might be on board. That might even explain why LE was searching PM's apartment in Columbia.

 

[sunshineray]

All just guesses/ theories - answering in line below.
If it was a planned robbery, why were PM/MM killed down by the kennels and not at the main house ? What was stolen ? Why didn't the killer(s) take MM's car ? And why so early and why when AM/MM/PM were staying @ Moselle ?
My theory is a meth fueled robbery so not really a planned thing. Just a theory: Cash, valuables that can be traded or sold for drugs, and/or drugs may have been stolen. It is common for people to trade stolen goods for drugs.

If it was a murder-suicide, how did MM's phone get out on the highway outside the property ? What would be the motive for a murder-suicide from either MM/PM ?

Just a theory as two family members are found dead murder suicide is a common reason. The family and especially PM seemed to be under a lot of stress. PM is said to have extreme anger issues when drinking. I could see someone with extreme anger issues shooting a family member and then regretting it and then staging the scene to make it look like they did not commit the murder. It could have been a dispute over his drinking or his need to go to rehab or anything really. 9 pm would be a fitting time frame for an alcohol fueled dispute. MOO

Given that PM was severely disfigured by the shotgun blasts, I still see this a targeted hit on PM with MM as collateral damage.
It’s certainly possible! Typical shotgun would suggest shot from a distance has a bigger entrance wound. However a contact wound to the head can be extremely destructive and disfiguring.

It’s hard to know since we have so little information.

Since Paul was shot twice with a shotgun I don't think it could be self-inflicted and I don't believe there's even a possibility of Maggie killing her son. I just don't see it at all after reading about her. Plus Maggie was shot multiple times. Murder/suicide doesn't fit the wounds in this case, IMO

 

[evilwise]

I'm currently suspecting likelihoods of about 75% "settling of scores", 20% "familicide" for a total of 95% sure it was a planned killing and only 5% "other" including robbery or crime of passion including murder/suicide or escalation of a smaller confrontation.

 

[T rex]

It's possible Mom got stuck in the middle of a situation created by her son Paul. In a portion of the depositions released from the lawsuit Paul had pending, his girlfriend stated he was involved with marijuana and cocaine.

Depositions shed new light on the death of Lowcountry teen | WSAV-TV

IMO when you have people who readily make available such things and you have people with lots of money to spend and a young partying attitude...it can cause violence at some point if thos two worlds clash. AJMO

It's possible Mom got stuck in the middle of a situation created by her son Paul. In a portion of the depositions released from the lawsuit Paul had pending, his girlfriend stated he was involved with marijuana and cocaine.

Depositions shed new light on the death of Lowcountry teen | WSAV-TV

IMO when you have people who readily make available such things and you have people with lots of money to spend and a young partying attitude...it can cause violence at some point if thos two worlds clash. AJMO

I wasn't aware of the alleged drug use. This does add another element and it could be considered an isolated incident but I just dont see how LE could have came to that conclusion so quickly.

If it was a planned robbery, why were PM/MM killed down by the kennels and not at the main house ? What was stolen ? Why didn't the killer(s) take MM's car ? And why so early and why when AM/MM/PM were staying @ Moselle ?

If it was a murder-suicide, how did MM's phone get out on the highway outside the property ? What would be the motive for a murder-suicide from either MM/PM ?

Given that PM was severely disfigured by the shotgun blasts, I still see this a targeted hit on PM with MM as collateral damage.

Regarding a murder suicide. There are other ways these things could have happened. I will stop short of saying what things other than this: just think of someone that really wouldn't want this to come out and then put that person at the scene first and by themselves. I'm just saying its not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[eag]

At the moment, my guess is that she pulled out her phone to call someone, maybe police… and it was taken from her. Then discarded as the killers left. I do think there were two of them.

I agree with this!

 

[Marklhc1988]

Three main newspapers in NYC area, NY Times which believe it or not doesn't always get the whole story right but usually has top notch reporting. Then you have the NY Post and the Daily News which are more sensationalistic but do report the widely known facts as well. NY Post has some tabloid in it's blood over some stories but has also broken some stories, the insider story, that later is widely picked up by the more reputable papers.

It's maddening they use unnamed sources but remember Deep Throat was an unnamed source too. I've always thought it was possible everything started at the main house and that Paul was shot with his own weapon.

Personally I am leery of literally anything associated with NY including newspapers. JMO

 

[nao]

Moo .maybe some people were trying to steal the dogs (good hunting dogs are worth $ or to use as bait dogs). Son hears dogs flipping out. He goes to check. ..his mom following behind. Then boom . Moo

 

[waldojabba]

Personally I am leery of literally anything associated with NY including newspapers. JMO

I had to laugh at this one !!
Assuming you are from the south?
IMO