Searches for Lisa

[Whisperer]

Vinnie P. did a video on it. They are huge...made of cement and appeared to be about 5/6 ft tall and dry. A huge, dry, clean cement tunnel structure.

 

[Blessed2Bme]

Wow.... that could have been an escape route but highly unlikely that night with the 2 sightings reported "man seen with baby".
Who knows though if these particular tunnels were accessed by Jersey prior to this night.

 

[cityslick]

I was curious about that storm drain because it doesn't only have to be a path going down to the river, but it can also be an access to the house on Lister. It can be accessed at anywhere along the way as well.

Just for fun, I put the route from Lister to the river near the end of Birmingham, near the grain elevator, on Google maps and mapped it as a walker. It gave me a path down Lister, down Brighton. . .time 15mins.

I assume that route would stay strictly via the road. Well, if you're carrying a dead baby I would think you would try to stay out of view as much as possible, no matter the time. Also, does the route take you over 210? I know you mentioned there isn't a whole lot of traffic at that time there, but how common would it be to see someone walking across it at that time, carrying something?

 

[In da Middle]

Vinnie P. did a video on it. They are huge...made of cement and appeared to be about 5/6 ft tall and dry. A huge, dry, clean cement tunnel structure.

The ONLY cement part of the drain is where is goes under NE 37th St upstream from JI's house, not downstream. The very short stretch of ditch that goes from NE 37th to where it meets the creek behind the mid 3500 block of N LIster is the ONLY part that was dry at the time. The ONLY other part of the creek that is concrete is where it travels under 210 hwy. The creek is never dry except for the one time LE drained it for the search.

I assume that route would stay strictly via the road. Well, if you're carrying a dead baby I would think you would try to stay out of view as much as possible, no matter the time. Also, does the route take you over 210? I know you mentioned there isn't a whole lot of traffic at that time there, but how common would it be to see someone walking across it at that time, carrying something?

Yes, that route would strictly be taking the roads. There is no way traveling via the creek would take 15 minutes. Even by a seasoned traveler. The creek is never dry and the bottom of the creek is rock and very sticky clay mud. Then you have to add total darkness to the equation.

 

[prayers4missing]

I just wanted to point out that carrying a 25+ pound baby wouldn't have been heavy to a parent who has been carrying that child for months. My toddler is 30+ pounds and I can carry him without a problem, because I'm used to having that weight in my arms/hips. MOO

 

[cityslick]

I just wanted to point out that carrying a 25+ pound baby wouldn't have been heavy to a parent who has been carrying that child for months. My toddler is 30+ pounds and I can carry him without a problem, because I'm used to having that weight in my arms/hips. MOO

It's still not the same thing as doing it at night, in the dark, over uneven terrain. Plus you wouldn't be carrying the baby (assuming she was already dead) in the same manner as you would a live child I would think.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I get the Shanes and the Danes confused but whomever the new neighbor was..he says the two women were out on the stoop smoking and drinking. He didn't drink with them but smoked.

And one would presume that Samantha Brando coorberated DB's assertion that she had been drinking. I realize that's an assumption on my part but if SB denied it (and again we don't know for sure that she consented to an interview but I think we would if she did) I think that would have leaked out. If SB had said her friend wasn't drinking, I can't imagine that wouldn't have leaked out in those initial days.

I think Phil Netz's testimony and the clerks and SB's is what led KCPD to the Festival Foods to begin with (along with the receipt found at the house). We know that KCPD drained the box of wine so that they could see how much had been consumed per CS.

BBM I've seen speculation that LE may have drained it, but I haven't seen anything on MSM saying they did. Do you have a link please.

 

[indepmo]

BBM I've seen speculation that LE may have drained it, but I haven't seen anything on MSM saying they did. Do you have a link please.

I believe when Cyndi Short toured the home, she stated she thought LE drained it to measure the remaining alcohol to see how much was consumed.

 

[Elley Mae]

It's still not the same thing as doing it at night, in the dark, over uneven terrain. Plus you wouldn't be carrying the baby (assuming she was already dead) in the same manner as you would a live child I would think.

And don't forget she was :drink: too.

 

[cityslick]

And don't forget she was :drink: too.

Yup, that part always gets forgotten. Even if you believe she was never blacked out, it's pretty much a fact she was drinking, based on two different witnesses (SB and Shane, who didn't see them drink but could see they had been drinking).

 

[prayers4missing]

I do not for one second believe she was drunk. Drinking sure probably, but in my mind no way she was drunk. Also carrying your child is the same regardless if it's day or night. I never said that she carried Lisa through the woods to the river. Many people keep saying it would be hard for DB to carry Lisa because Lisa weighed so much, I wanted to point out that IMO DB would be used to how much her daughter weighed.

 

[prayers4missing]

It's still not the same thing as doing it at night, in the dark, over uneven terrain. Plus you wouldn't be carrying the baby (assuming she was already dead) in the same manner as you would a live child I would think.

BBM

:waitasec: How would you carry the child differently? I can only imagine if my child was deceased in my arms I would be cradling her to me, much like the same way I would carry a sleeping baby. MOO

 

[cityslick]

BBM

:waitasec: How would you carry the child differently? I can only imagine if my child was deceased in my arms I would be cradling her to me, much like the same way I would carry a sleeping baby. MOO

For almost a one year old? I think she would be holding her vertical normally. BL was not an infant.

 

[cityslick]

I do not for one second believe she was drunk. Drinking sure probably, but in my mind no way she was drunk. Also carrying your child is the same regardless if it's day or night. I never said that she carried Lisa through the woods to the river. Many people keep saying it would be hard for DB to carry Lisa because Lisa weighed so much, I wanted to point out that IMO DB would be used to how much her daughter weighed.

She was drunk enough that it was apparent to Shane. How do you tell someone is drinking if you never saw them drink?

 

[prayers4missing]

For almost a one year old? I think she would be holding her vertical normally. BL was not an infant.

No she wasn't an infant, but if she was deceased then head control would be an issue.....MOO

 

[cityslick]

No she wasn't an infant, but if she was deceased then head control would be an issue.....MOO

Correct, but in most cases, carrying 25-30 lbs horizontally, especially if you are in a rush as she would have to be, would be a little more cumbersome IMO.

 

[prayers4missing]

She was drunk enough that it was apparent to Shane. How do you tell someone is drinking if you never saw them drink?

Actually did Shane say they were drunk? I just recall him mentioning knowing they had been drinking but that he didn't see them drink. For all we know he could've known they had been drinking because they told him they had, not because they were drunk. MOO

 

[cityslick]

Actually did Shane say they were drunk? I just recall him mentioning knowing they had been drinking but that he didn't see them drink. For all we know he could've known they had been drinking because they told him they had, not because they were drunk. MOO

I'll have to search for it but I believe it was stated that 'he could tell they had been drinking' which to me is a little different than saying 'they told me they were drinking'.

For example, I can tell when someone has been drinking, both by smell and their reactions.

 

[hambirg]

I assume that route would stay strictly via the road. Well, if you're carrying a dead baby I would think you would try to stay out of view as much as possible, no matter the time. Also, does the route take you over 210? I know you mentioned there isn't a whole lot of traffic at that time there, but how common would it be to see someone walking across it at that time, carrying something?

Yes, the route was via the roads.

But my point was that the back of the house could be accessed many ways. Someone who is parked along the road, or at the condos, or at the school could access the back yard. Same with leaving, same thing. So, on foot all the way to the river isn't the only scenario.

ETA- I also think it is very likely that BL was in something to be carried. . .a bag. . .a baby carrier. . .a sling. If we are thinking that the dumpster fire is related, then there had to be "stuff" to burn.

MOO

 

[In da Middle]

Yes, the route was via the roads.

But my point was that the back of the house could be accessed many ways. Someone who is parked along the road, or at the condos, or at the school could access the back yard. Same with leaving, same thing. So, on foot all the way to the river isn't the only scenario.

ETA- I also think it is very likely that BL was in something to be carried. . .a bag. . .a baby carrier. . .a sling. If we are thinking that the dumpster fire is related, then there had to be "stuff" to burn.

MOO

But how would she get a hold of someone? The phones did not work. LE has taken the computers so I think if she got a hold of someone that way, we would already have an arrest by now. Or did someone just happen to stop by asking if they just happened to have a dead baby they needed disposing of?