Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6

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IIRC, it wasn't full out sex. Truth is, though, and please to excuse this rudeness, what the hell business is it of anyone but Deanna what intimacy she and Travis shared? I've always hated this topic of discussion, because IMO it's a win for the every time folks discuss Travis and sex.

Nope. It was full out per testimony. For over a year. It wasn't anyone's business but Nurmi had her deposed and had her testify to it. Juan brought that Travis treated her with respect. Never called her names etc.

IMO..No way Jodi "wins". Travis was a human who had sex. Jodi is the human who slaughtered him and will die alone in a cage.
 
IIRC Deanna testified they'd had sex for over a year before going to their bishops...

Were there many other women in his life by the time JA came along? I mean sexually, because he had women friends, no doubt. Having sex for a year with one's partner does not in itself make one worldly or experienced in all things sexual. Some couples engage for many years without trying anything kinky. Just sayin...one does not have to be a virgin to be considered inexperienced.
 
Were there many other women in his life by the time JA came along? I mean sexually, because he had women friends, no doubt. Having sex for a year with one's partner does not in itself make one worldly or experienced in all things sexual. Some couples engage for many years without trying anything kinky. Just sayin...one does not have to be a virgin to be considered inexperienced.

Agree. I don't think he'd experienced anything like what Jodi was offering.
 
IIRC, very not true about Deanna and Travis. I do agree that what the offered Travis was understandably impossible for him to resist. Fact is, if Travis hadn't been a Mormon, nothing whatsoever would have been the slightest bit remarkable about a 30 year old man wanting or having sex.

She chose Mormons to prey on for a reason. Travis thought she was indulging his fantasies with their sex. He had no clue until the end she was using sex as a weapon against him, to cripple him with self doubt and guilt, and to make him feel unworthy.


BBM~ I Hate Her! SO Much!! I really do!
 
I despised the path that Nurmi used with Deanna. I am certain it must have been humiliating for her to discuss in public what is/was none of anyone's business. All to defend that defendant. Totally unnecessary of Nurmi to do that. I don't know how he sleeps at night. And now I heard he is some sort of legal correspondant on a network. This is a man that cited the media and SM as the devil, mind you, and prevented his client from getting a fair trial. Gimme a break!
 
The Mormon religion is like every other religion regarding premarital sex. It's not allowed. I'm Baptist and its against the rules. Always has been always will be. Now, the revoking Temple privilege is different though.

The reason she targeted Mormons IMO is their stressing early marriage and starting families ASAP..not the sexual fantasy stuff. She wanted marriage, pronto. She may have seen Travis's Achilles Heel was sex so she...being a proper borderline...used it against him. She tried very hard to convince him that no other Mormon girl would be able to fulfill his sexual desires so he might as well just marry her. IMO


There is a difference, though, in the Mormon's prohibition against premarital sex. No mainstream religion allows it, but the Mormon faith is so opposed as to consider it (ironically, in this case) a sin secondary only to murder.

I agree she pre-selected Mormons as a target group because marriage ASAP was her goal, and, as JM argued, because she considered them, as a group, to be successful financially. IMO she also saw Mormons, again as a group, to be easy prey because of beliefs specific to that religion, including the imperative for Mormons to believe in and nurture every soul's inherent divinity. (A rough parallel to this can be found in Judaism, specifically, the obligation to forgive --6 times--any offenses against one; the High Holy day of Yom Kippur is about tending to this duty if not yet discharged).

I didn't mean to say that the first targeted Mormons because she thought Mormons most vulnerable to her sexual manipulations. She selected Mormons as targets before she met Travis. She tried, in the beginning, to portray herself as a true convert to Mormonism in order to lure Travis (which, BTW, is the one of the reasons I never believed they engaged in any kind of sexual activity before early 2007, at the earliest). Thus her strutting back and forth in front of Travis, Book of Mormon in hand, while over at Sky's house.

It was only after she realized playing the good Mormon wasn't working that she turned towards sex.

If we don't agree, we don't agree, won't be the first time ;) , but IMO the was well aware of how conflicted and guilty Travis felt about being sexual with her. He was a devout Mormon, an Elder, and being right with the church MATTERED to him, no matter his lapses. She's a psychopath, not just a Borderline. She knew his weaknesses, and she used them against him to gain control over him. IMO she was absolutely aware that the more sexual he was with her, the LESS likely he was to consider her marriage material.

Again, sex as a weapon, to drive a wedge, if you will, between Travis and his Church, his faith being in her mind the chief impediment to his being willing to marry her.

Sex to make him feel unworthy and weak, sex to make it difficult or impossible for him to be right with the Church, the recording and manufacturing of evidence of sex to drive away any and all good Mormon marriage candidates.

And when he was stripped of the Church and all other marriage prospects, there she would be.
 
I despised the path that Nurmi used with Deanna. I am certain it must have been humiliating for her to discuss in public what is/was none of anyone's business. All to defend that defendant. Totally unnecessary of Nurmi to do that. I don't know how he sleeps at night. And now I heard he is some sort of legal correspondant on a network. This is a man that cited the media and SM as the devil, mind you, and prevented his client from getting a fair trial. Gimme a break!

Deanna did well considering. She remained calm. She answered the questions honestly. She explained the Law of Chastity was not a vow but a set of rules. She and Travis dated a long time and were in love before breaking that rule. They continued to do so for about a year then quit.
She didn't seem to indicate breaking chastity was a sin secondary only to murder though. She explained she confessed, her Temple Recommend was suspended then the bishop gave her some steps to complete to get it back. That he was kind and understanding and that it's something that humans struggle with.
Deanna is a class act.
 
Tex- please forgive earlier snappish post. It wasn't directed at you. I had little tolerance for the subject during trial for the same reasons I don't now, but more than anything else, I'm just exhausted today-- too much politics & not enough sleep.
 
Tex- please forgive earlier snappish post. It wasn't directed at you. I had little tolerance for the subject during trial for the same reasons I don't now, but more than anything else, I'm just exhausted today-- too much politics & not enough sleep.

No worries Hope. We're all good. I wish your husband the best tonight. Any early returns?
 
Deanna did well considering. She remained calm. She answered the questions honestly. She explained the Law of Chastity was not a vow but a set of rules. She and Travis dated a long time and were in love before breaking that rule. They continued to do so for about a year then quit.
She didn't seem to indicate breaking chastity was a sin secondary only to murder though. She explained she confessed, her Temple Recommend was suspended then the bishop gave her some steps to complete to get it back. That he was kind and understanding and that it's something that humans struggle with.
Deanna is a class act.

BBM


Yes, Deanna is a class act. Travis was a lucky guy to have spent time with her.

But like you mentioned earlier, virtually ALL religions prohibit sex before marriage. I have little doubt that many Mormons violate that taboo, too. I don't think their situation was in any way unusual.
 
Hope --

Soooo, since election results should be in by now, did your DH win????
 
Hope --

Soooo, since election results should be in by now, did your DH win????
And... is his candidate still in the running?? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Deanna did well considering. She remained calm. She answered the questions honestly. She explained the Law of Chastity was not a vow but a set of rules. She and Travis dated a long time and were in love before breaking that rule. They continued to do so for about a year then quit.
She didn't seem to indicate breaking chastity was a sin secondary only to murder though. She explained she confessed, her Temple Recommend was suspended then the bishop gave her some steps to complete to get it back. That he was kind and understanding and that it's something that humans struggle with.
Deanna is a class act.





Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.1, Chastity, Law of, by Bryce Christensen. (greatly abridged)


The apostle Paul warned that if the Saints succumbed to sexual sin they would not "retain God in their knowledge" (Rom. 1:26-29). (….) Corianton was taught by his father, Alma2, that sexual sin is "most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost" (Alma 39:5).


In latter-day revelation, Church leaders are directed to excommunicate adulterers if they refuse to repent. The Doctrine and Covenants reproves adulterous desires as a denial of the faith, disqualifying offenders from the companionship of the Spirit (D&C 42:23-26; 63:16). (….)

Church leaders have repeatedly stressed obedience to the law of chastity. In an official pronouncement in 1942, the First Presidency promised "the exaltations of eternities" to those who remain chaste, deploring sexual immorality as a destroyer of individuals and nations.

"The doctrine of this Church," they stated, "is that sexual sin—the illicit sexual relations of men and women—stands, in its enormity, next to murder. “


 
Hope --

Soooo, since election results should be in by now, did your DH win????

And... is his candidate still in the running?? Inquiring minds want to know.


Thanks for asking, but we don't know yet. Delegates are awarded proportionally, so DH's candidate need not win our state, or even our district for DH to be elected. On the other hand, proportional means DH's odds are largely contingent upon the percentage of votes his candidate wins. Three other male delegates were on the ballot. I don't have any idea how it works if , say, proportionally one delegate is allocated, but each of the 4 on the ballot receive an identical number of votes.

Working in DH's favor is his/our fairly substantial network of supporters who know how to work this kind of vote on the ballot, but who knows.

I've done everything I could to be supportive, but in all honesty, can't wait for all this yammering and apocalyptical talk to go raging into the night if it must, but for the morning after to follow swiftly. UNCLE already. ;)
 
Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.1, Chastity, Law of, by Bryce Christensen. (greatly abridged)


The apostle Paul warned that if the Saints succumbed to sexual sin they would not "retain God in their knowledge" (Rom. 1:26-29). (….) Corianton was taught by his father, Alma2, that sexual sin is "most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost" (Alma 39:5).


In latter-day revelation, Church leaders are directed to excommunicate adulterers if they refuse to repent. The Doctrine and Covenants reproves adulterous desires as a denial of the faith, disqualifying offenders from the companionship of the Spirit (D&C 42:23-26; 63:16). (….)

Church leaders have repeatedly stressed obedience to the law of chastity. In an official pronouncement in 1942, the First Presidency promised "the exaltations of eternities" to those who remain chaste, deploring sexual immorality as a destroyer of individuals and nations.

"The doctrine of this Church," they stated, "is that sexual sin—the illicit sexual relations of men and women—stands, in its enormity, next to murder. “



Damn. Deanna didn't make it seem like she and Travis were one step removed from his murderer who shed his innocent blood!
Her testimony was they confessed, repented and the process was not harsh but more nurturing and understanding. Not saying it wasn't taken as a serious sin, just that the elders were supportive. I don't think they were as supportive of Sister Arias, thankfully.
 
Damn. Deanna didn't make it seem like she and Travis were one step removed from his murderer who shed his innocent blood!
Her testimony was they confessed, repented and the process was not harsh but more nurturing and understanding. Not saying it wasn't taken as a serious sin, just that the elders were supportive. I don't think they were as supportive of Sister Arias, thankfully.


Yeah, I was pretty taken aback during trial when I read about what's considered the second deadliest sin.

I don't think what Deanna said contradicts how serious the prohibition is. She said bishops and/or councils have absolute discretion over the "penalties" meted out for any and all transgressions. Sounds like her Bishop has been kind, mercifully, because that fine and good woman surely doesn't deserve anything less.
 
The mention of John Dixon in the Hughes'-Travis emails sent me on the mini-mission of trying to figure out....is Dixon real or all a lie?

My guess- a lie, doesn't exist. I think she invented John in December 2006 or January 2007 to make Travis jealous and afraid of "losing" her. Her story of John asking her to leave the Mormon Church to have a relationship with her reeks of trademark manipulation and arrogant grandiosity. Like some guy she'd gone out with one or two times would ask her to renounce her "faith" for him. It's just silly, especially since she told Abe around the same time that she was just dabbling in Mormonism. Abe who she lied was the intended recipient of that "accidental" email she sent Travis in Jan 2007, a few weeks before she pulled the Hughes manuever.

*********

I'd forgotten that the said on the stand the pages she'd torn out from her journal were in part about Dixon, and that she'd tried to get in that the fight that day over the backpack came after Travis took her stuff out of the backpack, saw her journal, and read about her spending time with Dixon.
********

I'd forgotten about that detail on the stand. Actually, it doesn't make sense to me, because that argument over the backpack was in October 2007 or so, and you're saying the John Dixon episodes were Dec 2006 and Jan 2007? All this crazy lying that has no purpose but manipulation.
 
I actually do believe it's likely she was on the pill, given the many clues she might well have been hooking for dollars, or just living up to that accusation of *advertiser censored*.

How much would it have cost her to be on the pill? Plus, it's Arizona and pre Obamacare. No way is she getting the cost subsidized.

Being on the pill wouldn't keep JA or TA from not transmitting an STD.

Maybe the pamphlets at the mall were pamphlets TA picked up about STD's, and the information in them nuked the sex play with JA. In revenge, JA comes up with the pedophilia BS. As always with her lies, they develop from a piece of the truth....

I still think on June 4 JA barged in on TA masturbating when she showed up at his place. She took the photos before he saw her. And that's why he threw the KY at her. And then in the trial she used this part of the encounter to construct the "he was masturbating to a photo of a young boy" BS.
 
How much would it have cost her to be on the pill? Plus, it's Arizona and pre Obamacare. No way is she getting the cost subsidized.

Most counties and larger cities have low cost clinics.
 
I'd forgotten about that detail on the stand. Actually, it doesn't make sense to me, because that argument over the backpack was in October 2007 or so, and you're saying the John Dixon episodes were Dec 2006 and Jan 2007? All this crazy lying that has no purpose but manipulation.


This was the time period the Hughes say she was desperate and upset that Travis wasn't asking her to move to Mesa. Jodi forwarded a mysterious email from someone who was stalking Jodi. The writer praised her on her amazing skills as an artist and photographer then went on about how her new guy friend couldn't protect her since he was in AZ and she was in CA
 
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