Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[Hope4More]

Last post for the night.

I found a National Park Service telecom planning doc for the Lake Mead Ntl Recreation Area, dated July 2008. That rec area covers not just Hoover Dam, but most of the 27 miles on 93 from the dam towards Kingman.

There were only 3 cell towers on NP land in that area in 2008. The doc says each had a range of 10 miles, max, optimally, and that otherwise the only wireless coverage was happenstance, if a signal was picked up (btw, as recently as 2012, Sprint, the carrier she used, was tested at Hoover Dam and was second to last in connectivity and speed).

The 2 relevant towers - one at Boulder Beach, very close to the dam visitor's center, and one at Callville Bay, on the opposite side of Las Vegas Bay, the lake mentioned near the bypass Vegas route.

 

[Val1]

I hope I can post this... thought it might be useful to this discussion:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...he-Unresolved-Questions&p=9748395#post9748395

08-12-2013, 08:33 AM #254
Tuba

"Mesa Det. Larry Gladysh testified that C.M.'s tel. records show she was 27 miles from the Nevada border, 45 miles north of Kingman when she made a 31" call to Travis (deceased). She had traveled 256 miles in 4 hours & 33 minutes. That means leaving Mesa at 7:04 p.m., June 4. She had avoided, in the most conspicuous way, leaving her mark anywhere in Arizona. I think she believed she had exited the state when she still had 27 miles to go. Eleven minutes later she left the longer voice mail, recording her disgust at going over 100 miles out of her way because she got lost. I also think she is in a bit of panic because she has realized that she is traceably in Arizona, so that is explained by going astray, a lie. Of course, we are pretty sure she did not leave Mesa at 7 o'clock, there is lost time to account for on the road, therefor. Was she franticly disposing of contaminated clothes, belongings and the gun? Or about to do that, just inside Nevada?"
-------------------------------

So basically, does that mean she pinged a tower that was 45 miles north of Kingman but only 27 miles east of the Nevada border? How does that compute with that break in the mountains you noted H4M?

Answering my own question after reviewing the video testimony from 5:00-6:40, they play the recorded call for a second time for the jury at 14:25, it's much clearer the second time:

[video=youtube;F0z5Ux-BdJw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0z5Ux-BdJw[/video]

The witness says that the call records he received from Horizon Wireless showed that the caller who left the message for TA on June 4th at 11:48pm would have been approximately 45 miles North of Kingman and 27 miles South of the Nevada border. So she must have been on 93... during that call is when she claims to have driven over a hundred miles in the wrong direction.

 

[RickshawFan]

According to this one map, if you go east on 93 at the 93/95 junction, then north on Lakeshore Rd, you can bypass Las Vegas and have a handy lake on your right which would definitely allow for pings hitting any towers on the east side of the lake, which would still be south of the AZ border. Anyway, great pics and hope you're taking breaks too!

http://www.travelmath.com/drive-distance/from/Mesa,+AZ/to/Las+Vegas,+NV

Lake Mead? Unlikely she's pinging into Arizona north of Kingman from the other side of Lake Mead. It's not exactly a small body of water. She is more likely to have pinged off I-15 if she's north of Lake Mead. Besides, could she even have driven that far?

My problem with all of this, is that she agreed with Flores that she was on 93. I just think she did something stupid; just couldn't restrain herself from making those phone calls. She also was stupid if she went over Hoover Dam. She could easily have been video-ed. She did alot of stupid things, but only got caught on a small fraction of them.

My other problem with any route other than 93 is that she would have pinged off towers on 95 or the I15 corridor.

 

[Val1]

I just came across this info again, could she have called from the Arizona Last Stop if that was just after the turnoff to Dolan Springs?

http://arizonahighwayguides.com/kingman-to-hoover-dam/page2.htm
"The Arizona Last Stop Restaurant and Bar is located on US 93 between Kingman, Arizona and Las Vegas.

They are at mile marker 27 and literally your 'last stop' for food, gas, and supplies as you head towards the Hoover Dam and Nevada."

http://www.dolanspringschamber.org/#!about-us/tg9mj
Dolan Springs(where the Joshua trees are)
"To find us, travel north from Kingman or south from Las Vegas, on highway 93. At mile marker 42, turn east. Our community is about 5 miles east of the highway on Scenic Route 25 (aka Pierce Ferry Road)."

 

[Val1]

Lake Mead? Unlikely she's pinging into Arizona north of Kingman from the other side of Lake Mead. It's not exactly a small body of water. She is more likely to have pinged off I-15 if she's north of Lake Mead. Besides, could she even have driven that far?

My problem with all of this, is that she agreed with Flores that she was on 93. I just think she did something stupid; just couldn't restrain herself from making those phone calls. She also was stupid if she went over Hoover Dam. She could easily have been video-ed. She did alot of stupid things, but only got caught on a small fraction of them.

My other problem with any route other than 93 is that she would have pinged off towers on 95 or the I15 corridor.

Do you have to drive over at the checkpoints for Hoover Dam or is that somewhat north of the main hwy? I've never been that far south and east, just to Las Vegas, Tijuana... the usual Canadian roadtrip.

 

[RickshawFan]

The route now near Hoover Dam is different than in 2008, so current maps and signs are different too. The bypass you noticed is interesting. I didn't see any signs for it coming up north on 95, but she might have if she travelled on 93. On my map the bypass begins near the visitors center, which if in same place would be a very logical place to pull into to make calls, IMO.

I don't think she had any need to bypass Las Vegas, but she could have. I disagree with Tuba's analysis of a missing hour, btw. I think the timeline is extremely tight for making those calls when she did, and that they were likely made near the dam, either at the visitor's center (if she went via 93), or near the gap before 93 and 95 merge (less likely, because there is no place to pull over/into there other than the side of the road).

Again, there is no way she could have mistaken being in Nevada if she drove on 93 from Kingman. Every mileage sign on the road (and they are plentiful) marks the distance to Hoover dam, and she had travelled that road just a few months earlier.

Is it possible she thought there was a bypass for Hoover Dam and she didn't figure out until she was on top of it that there wasn't?

In her haste, she maybe didn't check the map as she drove, and mixed up 93 and 95 and it was too late when she figured it out. After all, she couldn't buy gas in AZ. .???

 

[RickshawFan]

Last post for the night.

I found a National Park Service telecom planning doc for the Lake Mead Ntl Recreation Area, dated July 2008. That rec area covers not just Hoover Dam, but most of the 27 miles on 93 from the dam towards Kingman.

There were only 3 cell towers on NP land in that area in 2008. The doc says each had a range of 10 miles, max, optimally, and that otherwise the only wireless coverage was happenstance, if a signal was picked up (btw, as recently as 2012, Sprint, the carrier she used, was tested at Hoover Dam and was second to last in connectivity and speed).

The 2 relevant towers - one at Boulder Beach, very close to the dam visitor's center, and one at Callville Bay, on the opposite side of Las Vegas Bay, the lake mentioned near the bypass Vegas route.

My atlas has Callville Bay quite a bit east (rather than across from) Las Vegas Bay. That would ping in NV?

 

[RickshawFan]

I can't recall when and where she got stuck somewhere and pretended to have searched for the charger. Is that a detail in this conversation?

 

[RickshawFan]

I just came across this info again, could she have called from the Arizona Last Stop if that was just after the turnoff to Dolan Springs?

http://arizonahighwayguides.com/kingman-to-hoover-dam/page2.htm
"The Arizona Last Stop Restaurant and Bar is located on US 93 between Kingman, Arizona and Las Vegas.

They are at mile marker 27 and literally your 'last stop' for food, gas, and supplies as you head towards the Hoover Dam and Nevada."

http://www.dolanspringschamber.org/#!about-us/tg9mj
Dolan Springs(where the Joshua trees are)
"To find us, travel north from Kingman or south from Las Vegas, on highway 93. At mile marker 42, turn east. Our community is about 5 miles east of the highway on Scenic Route 25 (aka Pierce Ferry Road)."

That AZ last stop looks totally like Jodi's kind of a place. She could have gone in to get something to eat between phone calls or even afterwards. I wonder if there's a dumpster there.
77 photos of that last stop under yelp. I don't know how to cut and paste on ipad.www.yelp.com/biz_photos/arizona-last-stop-white-hills Genius!

There's a gun range there, bikers, oh my gosh, a whole sales line up of big knives. She could so easily have left the evidence here, on a bike, in a pickup, rags in the gas station trash.

Who would have complained if a lost gun showed up in the saddlebag of an ATV? No one would blink if a stolen gun showed up there. She could easily have left the knife at the kitchen back door. A smoker would just have assumed it belonged in the kitchen and taken it inside.

Sick! More photos. Totally this place, and there must have been cell service here:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attract...ews-Bullets_and_Burgers-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html

 

[pocketaccent]

TA's house, left side (faces west, front faces south).

Wow, my favorite Websleuther was in Mesa!! What a treat!
Some great pictures you took!! So much better than what we've been seeing.

Re: Where did the park on June 4th?
It's possible she just backed into right in front of the smaller garage door. Arizona doesn't require front license plates so she took both front and back license plates off prior to arriving at TA's house. TA used the small garage only for storage and no roommate would use that door to go in and out, so the missing back plate wouldn't have been noticed by anyone.

If Zach stopped by the house in the afternoon, it's possible he just didn't notice anything strange about the plain white Ford Focus parked in the driveway and didn't save that in his memory.

Thank you for the great street pictures too. You are right, a car with plates off would stick out like a sore thumb in those narrow streets.

Have a fun and safe road trip with your family Hope4More! I don't know how anyone can drive thousands of miles for days. I'm known as a 10 mile radius lady here at home. I can happily fly for 15 hours straight with no problem and even enjoy the trip, but I tend to complain profusely after an hour or two of driving :facepalm:

 

[RickshawFan]

Do you have to drive over at the checkpoints for Hoover Dam or is that somewhat north of the main hwy? I've never been that far south and east, just to Las Vegas, Tijuana... the usual Canadian roadtrip.

I'll bet she hadn't paid attention to blood on the carpet and may not have known about it before she was already upon or over the dam, so she either didn't have cause to worry or it was too late to turn back so she just threw away the carpets. She could have done everything except get gas at the AZ last stop. She might even have assumed that location would ping in NV since "last stop" suggests "border right here".

 

[Hope4More]

Wow, my favorite Websleuther was in Mesa!! What a treat!
Some great pictures you took!! So much better than what we've been seeing.

Re: Where did the park on June 4th?
It's possible she just backed into right in front of the smaller garage door. Arizona doesn't require front license plates so she took both front and back license plates off prior to arriving at TA's house. TA used the small garage only for storage and no roommate would use that door to go in and out, so the missing back plate wouldn't have been noticed by anyone.

If Zach stopped by the house in the afternoon, it's possible he just didn't notice anything strange about the plain white Ford Focus parked in the driveway and didn't save that in his memory.

Thank you for the great street pictures too. You are right, a car with plates off would stick out like a sore thumb in those narrow streets.

Have a fun and safe road trip with your family Hope4More! I don't know how anyone can drive thousands of miles for days. I'm known as a 10 mile radius lady here at home. I can happily fly for 15 hours straight with no problem and even enjoy the trip, but I tend to complain profusely after an hour or two of driving :facepalm:

I can't believe it!! (((Pocket!!!))). So glad I have insomnia and checked back in.

About parking in the driveway. Both roommates would have had to blank on seeing her car in the AM, and then Zack again when he returned, and his neighbors as well, because those streets are very narrow and cars very obvious.

I think she parked around the corner with just the front plate off. But...who knows.

 

[Hope4More]

I'll bet she hadn't paid attention to blood on the carpet and may not have known about it before she was already upon or over the dam, so she either didn't have cause to worry or it was too late to turn back so she just threw away the carpets. She could have done everything except get gas at the AZ last stop. She might even have assumed that location would ping in NV since "last stop" suggests "border right here".

She had been over the dam before, and the dam itself (top of) used to be the border between NV and AZ, which she would have had to have known, having seen it both going and returning from her Vegas trip.

But...tidbits from her interrogation , and her testimony on the stand about getting lost and being on 93 , and those pesky cell records do suggest she made her calls from AZ.

It may be she knew she had to stop before the checkpoint to clean the car and herself, that it would take awhile, that she was already delayed by hours from an original time plan, and that the danger of Ryan calling all over about her being so late was more a risk than making the calls when and where she did....in AZ.

After all, we are talking about a who believes she can lie her way out of anything.

 

[Hope4More]

Do you have to drive over at the checkpoints for Hoover Dam or is that somewhat north of the main hwy? I've never been that far south and east, just to Las Vegas, Tijuana... the usual Canadian roadtrip.

Yep. Not negotiable.

 

[RickshawFan]

I got timed out so I have to repost this with changes:

I just came across this info again, could she have called from the Arizona Last Stop if that was just after the turnoff to Dolan Springs?

http://arizonahighwayguides.com/kingman-to-hoover-dam/page2.htm
"The Arizona Last Stop Restaurant and Bar is located on US 93 between Kingman, Arizona and Las Vegas.

They are at mile marker 27 and literally your 'last stop' for food, gas, and supplies as you head towards the Hoover Dam and Nevada."

http://www.dolanspringschamber.org/#!about-us/tg9mj
Dolan Springs(where the Joshua trees are)
"To find us, travel north from Kingman or south from Las Vegas, on highway 93. At mile marker 42, turn east. Our community is about 5 miles east of the highway on Scenic Route 25 (aka Pierce Ferry Road)."

That AZ last stop looks totally like Jodi's kind of a place. She could have gone in to get something to eat between phone calls or even afterwards. I wonder if there's a dumpster there.

77 photos of that last stop under yelp. I don't know how to cut and paste on ipad.www.yelp.com/biz_photos/arizona-last-stop-white-hills Genius!

There's a gun range there, bikers, oh my gosh, a whole sales line up of big knives. She could so easily have left the evidence here, on a bike, in a pickup, rags in the gas station trash.

Who would have complained if a lost gun showed up in the saddlebag of an ATV? No one would blink if a stolen gun showed up there. She could easily have left the knife at the kitchen back door. A smoker would just have assumed it belonged in the kitchen and taken it inside.

Was there a fish cleaning station? Great place to lose a bloody knife. Great place to wash blood off hands.

Jodi would have known about this place from prior trips and felt comfortable with the layout, demographic, bathrooms, weaponry...

Sick! More photos. Totally this place, and there must have been cell service here:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attract...ews-Bullets_and_Burgers-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html

 

[Val1]

I got timed out so I have to repost this with changes:



That AZ last stop looks totally like Jodi's kind of a place. She could have gone in to get something to eat between phone calls or even afterwards. I wonder if there's a dumpster there.

77 photos of that last stop under yelp. I don't know how to cut and paste on ipad.www.yelp.com/biz_photos/arizona-last-stop-white-hills Genius!

There's a gun range there, bikers, oh my gosh, a whole sales line up of big knives. She could so easily have left the evidence here, on a bike, in a pickup, rags in the gas station trash.

Who would have complained if a lost gun showed up in the saddlebag of an ATV? No one would blink if a stolen gun showed up there. She could easily have left the knife at the kitchen back door. A smoker would just have assumed it belonged in the kitchen and taken it inside.

Was there a fish cleaning station? Great place to lose a bloody knife. Great place to wash blood off hands.

Jodi would have known about this place from prior trips and felt comfortable with the layout, demographic, bathrooms, weaponry...

Sick! More photos. Totally this place, and there must have been cell service here:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attract...ews-Bullets_and_Burgers-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html

Anyone still conversant enough with all the other details to see if this place fits? I keep getting confused between all the calls, gas, miles, time frame... while trying to keep in mind that she may or may not have still had enough blood visible to have made a well lit public place too dangerous to stop at. That was why I was thinking Havasu, with all its waterfalls, pools, creeks, etc to clean up and dispose of unwanted evidence in what would seem to be total privacy, at least that's the impression from the pics I've seen online. Hmm, would that account for the "over a hundred miles" that she claims to have driven in the wrong direction?

 

[pocketaccent]

I can't believe it!! (((Pocket!!!))). So glad I have insomnia and checked back in.

About parking in the driveway. Both roommates would have had to blank on seeing her car in the AM, and then Zack again when he returned, and his neighbors as well, because those streets are very narrow and cars very obvious.

I think she parked around the corner with just the front plate off. But...who knows.

Umm, you are probably correct. As long as no one can correlate her and the California plated car, parking in that in-between street would be more desirable than parking in the driveway. Gee, what was I thinking. My sleuthing skill is getting rusty.

 

[Val1]

Umm, you are probably correct. As long as no one can correlate her and the California plated car, parking in that in-between street would be more desirable than parking in the driveway. Gee, what was I thinking. My sleuthing skill is getting rusty.

She may have used TA's plates while she was parked there, she knew he wasn't going to need them.:/

 

[RickshawFan]

As I thought some more about Arizona Last Stop.....

I too had always assumed Jodi had pulled over somewhere in the dark and dealt with the bloody evidence. But several factoids argue against that.

1. Jodi is not a brave gal. She likes to be in someone's lap, not the wilderness.

2. It would have been dark.

3. Have you ever tried to do something in the pitch black dark, no street lights, no nothing? You can't see what you're doing! You can't see where you are! In fact, you can get lost in a moment. I have had this happen to me. I couldn't even see where I should put my foot for the next step. I had to stop right there in my tracks, bivouac for the night, and then proceed in the morning.

4. Well......she probably took a flashlight. Buuuuutttt....it wasn't her car. Do you take a flashlight in a rental car?

5. Flashlights lose power very quickly. A headlamp then? On Jodi's narcissistic locks? Ummmm....

6. Have you ever gone camping, answered a nature call in the night, headlamp and all, and not been able to find your tent? You might be able to see your hands or feet or read a book, but you can't scope out your whereabouts. You get disoriented very quickly. Been there, done that, too, in a flock of cayotes.

7. Look for firewood? Heck no. Nuttin' out there. Been there, done that too, in a bevvy of lions and hippos. Yowza. And it's not exactly as though 93 and 95 are in firewood land. Besides, I'll bet Jodi doesn't know what good firewood looks like; I doubt she's ever picked a piece up.

8. Jodi really didn't take elaborate measures not to be seen on this trip. Otherwise, she would have dressed like a hippy and hitched to Arizona.

9. Thanks to Hope's great photos, we can see that there was a whole lot of nothing along 93 and 95. This means black black black night. June 4 2008 had the skinniest possible moon: http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_june_2008.phtml. Whether it was cloudy or clear, we're talking black.

10. If Jodi's using car headlights to light up her wood gathering bonfire building escapade, she's attracting all kinds of attention.

11. Jodi couldn't have gone far off road because she had already decided that the way to hide her trip was not to buy gas in Arizona. She fixated on that little detail even though she was stupid in so many others (like her selfies). She couldn't afford to use up any gas not directed at getting her out of the state.

I think we are mistaken to assume she'd do a whole lot of anything out there in the darkness.

I say the time lapse for her to get to Mesquite was spent right here in burgers and bullets.

I say she did all her clean up work in the warm embrace of drink slingers, truckers, waitboys. She would have blended right in. No one in a place like Arizona's last stop would have paid any attention to her. And she had spent her career in places like this. And she had to have been hungry from all that slaughter work. She had to be craving company for reassurance that she wasn't evil. She might even have been craving sex. Make that, she almost certainly was.

There may even be a hose in this place for RVers or dog water. Great place to wash off. Wow...it has a "campground", prolly just picnic tables and RV pad. Barbie pretty useless unless you're carrying fake logs or charcoal, but maybe enough to burn up some bloody stuff.

It could easily have been here, since the lights were bright, that she noticed there was blood on the upholstery.

WAIT a minute!!!!!! Ding ding ding! Do you see what I see? https://www.facebook.com/arizonalas...4840589576310/291297924263908/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/arizonalas...4840589576310/130096073717428/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/arizonalas...4840589576310/111824302211272/?type=3&theater

Hardly any lights......


Oh, my gosh, this is that place where: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...nge-mishap-popular-tourism-attraction-n190081

 

[Hope4More]

She may have used TA's plates while she was parked there, she knew he wasn't going to need them.:/

Fwiw, TA still had temporary tags on his Prius, hadn't traded them in yet for regular tags.

About time possibly spent at Last Stop or someplace else civilized. She couldn't have been covered in blood, had to have left the house reasonably clean to not have left blood traces downstairs and in the garage or outside. Further washing up of herself could have been done anywhere along the way at a rest stop. I don't see her wandering off into the desert and mesquite bushes to do anything either, especially since she didn't have to.

What she did have to do is to make sure nothing in the car looked suspicious going through the checkpoint, so I'm thinking she got rid of the car mats and bloody clothes before she reached the dam. That too could have been anywhere along the way, after dark perhaps. The weapons- who knows. It would have been risky to have them at the checkpoint, but not overly so, since she wouldn't have matched any profile warranting more than a cursory check of her car, IMO.

And that's that for now. Meeting my boys in a few hours, and onto the cooler temps and awesome scenery of Yellowstone and the Tetons!