Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #9

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Kinda coming back into this without reading the last pages to see what u guys have been discussing. Im kinda over Arias. I was there from almost the beginning. My first following of a trial. I work from home and didn't miss a beat. Watching it delayed a little to skip over hln ads and online. Consumed it. Discussed it. Obsessed over it. Picked it apart rebuilt it.

But it still perks my interest.

I wanted to observe the stuff about Martinez's behavior was disappointing. Sure, I cringed thru some of his behavior but thought it was an Arias-specific tactic. So there's that. Then the indelicate blogger thing. That's just being self indulgent. When he shouldve been above that. At least at work!!! She was a gorgeous woman and had a great personality.

I still follow her.

And I thought Martinez figured out how to deal with the psychic disorders Arias has and his bulldoggery was brilliant. I loved his strategy overall!

Anyway, it's always hard finding out your heroes' feet of clay. It's not my first.
 
The State of Arizona v. Jodi Arias ... and Juan Martinez

Guys! Sorry if repeat. Just found this looking for Perryville virus news.

The parts of this article i found interesting are the Martinez case; the author's assertion there was no premeditation; and the apparent fact Martinez changed the order of wounds...I had missed that last. I struggled over the order of wounds, too, since the bullet couldve been moved to the top of blood inadvertently by someone.

Saw this just as I was about to retreat. It's new, and thanks for posting it.

There are too many inaccuracies and distortions of fact in Kiefer's article to tackle them all. To limit myself to 2 of the most glaring:

1. He says that "unlike the COA" he never bought into the circumstantial evidence of the killer's premeditation. Hello? Appellate courts are not triers of evidence. Juries are. And the killer's jury believed there was overwhelming evidence of premeditation, a fact Kiefer neglects to mention at all.

2. Kiefer says that JM changed his narrative about the order of wounds inflicted "days before trial," and suggests without subtlety that JM changed the order to justify asking for the DP.

What? And wrong. Flores. Kevin Horn. What Flores said and what Horn said about the order of wounds was litigated, extensively, pretrial.

Horn testified in what was the most key pretrial hearing on the issue that the gunshot could not have come first, AND that he had never opined otherwise. So Kiefer is now alleging that Horn perjured himself, both before and during trial?

Kiefer seems incapable of controlling his biases every time he writes about JM or the killer's trial, even if he has to misstate facts and the record to make his points.
 
So true about Michael Kiefer. He even got himself hired by another Arizona paper just so he could write this despicable article. JA’s fans hang on Keifer’s every word.

I am very happy the killer’s appeal was denied.
There was in fact overwhelming evidence of her guilt that is indisputable, which is why going forward any attempt JA makes to “get herself free” will fail.
It’s pretty clear to me that JA is dangerous and should never be released back into society.

Time will tell in Juan’s case. It’s very sad that he lost his job & has to fight for his reputation now. I only hope he doesn’t lose his retirement benefits! I am hung up on that as he & I are about the same age and for him to lose those benefits would be awful.
 
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Fact is we really don’t know why he was fired & we shouldn’t. It’s private & confidential. But I doubt realistically it was “for nothing” .

(...) Juan is only human. He is not infallible. Chances are he wasn’t fired because AZ DA office simply chose to end employment “at will”- which any employer can do if they decide to focus on the behavior of that employee, document infractions and move through their disciplinary process to termination anyway.

Unfortunately his behavior had something to do with it. Other lawyers filed complaints about Juan way before JA. If you note, the DA office DID move Juan through their disciplinary process....write ups, then suspension, then termination. And because an employer can fire someone “at will”, Juan will have an uphill battle appealing his dismissal, imo. (....)

To assume he had no blame in his termination is unrealistic.


IMO, this timeline (and some context) suggests what likely prompted JM's firing:

Early January, 2017: Karen Clark filed her sex sex sex Bar complaint against JM. Her allegations were all over the place, but the central underlying theme was that JM (unethically) used bloggers during the killer's trial, AND that his behavior was consistent with a larger pattern and history of unethical/inappropriate treatment of women, up to and including sexually harassing MCAO employees.

February 2018. The Bar dismissed Clark's sex sex sex complaint. Clark immediately appeals the decision, and cites additional "research" she's conducted since first filing the complaint. Some portion of that "research" seems to have involved scouting MCAO for dirt on JM.

March 2018. The Probable Cause committee reinstates Clark's sex sex sex complaint.

April 27, 2018. Bill Montgomery issues a formal reprimand to JM, allegedly following a rather thorough investigation of sexual harassment allegations. JM's salary is dinged and he's ordered to take a class on (best guess) sexual harassment in the workplace.

The Bar requests/orders that the investigative report be turned over to the Bar. Montgomery agrees to do so. Either Montgomery or Bar counsel instructs that the report and record of JM's discipline be sealed.

Michael Kiefer begins a (unsuccessful) months long campaign of pressure to force Montgomery to make the full record public. All that is made public are Clark's lurid accusations, which were leaked, not officially released by the Bar, as ongoing Bar investigations are supposed to be confidential.

March 1, 2019. The Probable Cause committee formally charges JM with several counts of ethical violations. One of the charges includes information that had to be taken directly from Montgomery's investigation and report, relating to JM's sexual harassment of "several" MCAO employees (short-term law clerks), between 2016-2017, iirc.

The Prob Cause's charges against JM are made public.

August 24, 2019. The Bar's Chief Disciplinary judge, William O'Neill issues a prelimary ruling on one portion of Clark's sex sex sex complaint. The ruling grants JM's motion for summary judgement on the MCAO sexual harassment charges.

JM argued, and O'Neill agreed, that the sexual harassment charges be dismissed because of lack of jurisdiction. Unlike in many other states, AZ's Code of Professional Conduct for attorneys (the ethics rule book) does not specifically include sexual harassment as an ethical violation. No rule, no jurisdiction.

September 5, 2019. Bill Montgomery is appointed to the AZ Supreme Court. His appointment was months in the making and VERY controversial. Multiple organizations fought against his appointment, including most of the groups that had joined/weighed in on the Bar's appeal of the dismissal by the Bar's Disciplinary committee of the defense attys Bar complaint against JM.

A few days before Montgomery's appointment is announced, Karen Clark strikes again. This time she files Bar charges against Montgomery too, accusing him of inadequate supervision of JM, and for violating ethical rules by allowing JM to write and publish his book.

The Bar wants NOTHING to do with the charges against Montgomery. They ask that the charges be reviewed by an AZSC special counsel. Request granted. (And there the matter still remains).

September 2019. The first interim County Attorney to replace Montgomery (and rather self-selected, from within MCAO) reassigns JM to the AutoTheft division. Her public explanation for the move was that it was to give JM time to prepare his defense for the Bar investigations he was facing. (THIS EXPLANATION MATTERS. NEXT POST. :)).

January, 2020. Disciplinary Judge O'Neill formally dismisses the MCAO sexual harassment charges against JM, on the basis of lack of jurisdiction. In other words, McNeill rules that how those charges were or should be handled is up to MCAO, not the Bar.

February 7, 2020. JM is put on paid administrative leave by the newly appointed interim County Attorney, Adell. No explanation is provided, but for some unknown reason, given that details about the leave were supposed to be kept confidential (per MCAO spokesperson), the media was allowed to read the full 5 page letter to JM notifying him of the leave and to report about what they read.

A few days before JM is put on leave, word filters out that the Bar will file a complaint against Chief Disciplinary Judge O'Neill. The accusation? That he abused his power by granting JM's motion for summary judgement of the sexual harassment charges.

February 11, 2020. The Bar files a special petition to the AZSC accusing McNeill of abuse of power.

February 21, 2020. Adell/MCAO fires JM.
 
Wow @Hope4More - you have everything down! And I would like to know if the 4/20 hearing is still a go - you must have that handy! :)
TIA if you do!

(Hi, Niner! :))

AZ courts were quasi-shuttered through the end of March, due to the obvious. Bar disciplinary hearings could be held, but only if considered urgent. I don't see a similar court order for April, but it may be in place and nobody is around to post it online.

What had already happened before the world turned upside down, and what is tentatively scheduled:

1. The Bar filed a special action to the AZSC, accusing Disciplinary Judge O'Neill of abusing his power by dismissing the MCAO sexual harassment charges that the Probable Cause Committee had included in their formal charges against JM.

2. On February 26, 2020, five days after JM was fired, the Bar requested a "Stay of the Underlying Disciplinary Proceedings" against JM.

In other words, the Bar requested that JM's
disciplinary hearing scheduled for April 20 be postponed until the AZSC had heard and ruled on the Special Action against O'Neill.

Which makes it's own kind of sense, because O'Neill is the one and only Chief Disciplinary judge for the Bar, so the one and only judge permitted to preside over disciplinary hearings, including JM's. No can do with an accusation hanging over his head that he had abused his power for dismissing charges against JM (that summary judgement of Aug 2019, finalized in Jan 2020).

The Special Action against O'Neill is currently scheduled on the AZSC docket for April 28, 2020. (With a notation that "no oral arguments" will be heard. Maybe a hearing by phone or screens, then?)

3. I have no idea if or how JM's (pending) dismissal might affect the Bar proceedings against him. I imagine timing might matter. If JM loses his appeal over being fired (I think that's a fairly lengthy process, especially now with so much being shut down or curtailed), he, not MCAO will have to foot what have been very costly legal bills. And towards what end, then, if he no longer has a job practicing law?
 
(Especially for Salberg 7).

About the rules that apply to JM's dismissal. JM is not at "all will" State employee. By choice. In 2012 AZ Governor Jan Brewer led a successful legislative effort to "reform" State civil servant protections. AKA, to deprive civil servants of many of their legal protections, including their due process rights on matters of discipline and dismissal.

Since 2012, all new State employees are considered At Will. Also in 2012, existing State employees were all offered an across the board raise of just under 4% IF they surrendered their protected status and agreed to become At Will employees.

JM clearly had the wisdom, common sense, and financial means to refuse the offer. So...he's protected, meaning he can only be fired for cause, and that he has an absolute right to due process- including the right to appeal his dismissal.

BTW. (Sadly? :D) I've read the entire AZ State Personnel handbook, as well as info on how the AZ Board of Personnel functions (where JM's appeal is/will be heard). I've also read a (successful) appeal of a decision by the Board of Personnel (yikes, yep).

Too much is unknown of what MCAO did or told JM to know whether or not they dotted all their I's and crossed their T's in dismissing him, much less whether or not the Board will find merit in what MCAO offered as grounds (cause) for dismissal.

For whatever it's worth, I can't imagine the Board
would find alleged FEAR OF, not actual retaliation by JM sufficient cause. And IMO it isn't anything short of absurd (and a denial of JM's due process rights) to accuse him of not taking his discipline in 2018 seriously because he apparently objected to/appealed having his salary reduced that year as a result of being disciplined.

If JM did actually sexually harass a MCAO employee after being disciplined in 2018, he's toast and rightfully so. What little of the leaked 5 page dismissal letter reported on says that didn't happen.

But yep, I agree with you, Salberg, that JM's odds of overturning his dismissal are exceedingly dismal.
 
FYI, Nurmi has released volume 2 & 3 of his trilogy.

Trust Nurmi to try to capitalize on this brief interlude of renewed (minimal) interest in the killer.

I might download it if he reduces the price from $9.99 to $1.99. Though, I do appreciate his brazenness in taunting the killer and Karen Clark by publishing again, just when Clark may be dusting off her civil suit against him over his first book, lol.
 
FWIW it’s been my experience that it’s extremely difficult to terminate even “at will” employees without due process. If there’s a union, it can be nearly impossible. I had “at will” people working for me who were terrible employees. If I had fired anyone for less than a criminal act without progressive disciplinary write-ups, counseling and action plans, every one of them would have been bounced right back to the job no matter how poorly they performed. My boss was actually fired for firing people without those steps. I was told by an attorney who rep’d one of mine, who stayed fired after I fired him, that “at will” pretty much means nothing. It’s good verbiage and most companies include it nowadays but doesn’t really enhance job protection. If JM’s superiors didn’t document every single infraction and all of the specific, progressive, rehabilitative steps they took to correct him, he’ll get his job back with benefits, missed pay and his retirement. IMO he’s got a very good chance of winning.
 
Regarding “At Will” states of course you need to go through the disciplinary process of (what is usually) verbal, written warnings, then suspension then termination. “At Will” does not mean someone can fire you for no reason immediately (unless it’s an awful breach of policy). But “At Will” is very important as it protects employers from having employees sue them for wrongful termination. So I suppose the lawyer who told you it meant nothing may have been speaking to you in reference to your particular case, but “At Will” employment is a principle that protects employers from lawsuits as long as the employer follows the disciplinary process (which is probably why Jan Brewer fought to change the law) as the state was probably paying too many lawyers to fight the employees because of not being an “At Will” state. It’s not meant to protect employees. Sounds like your boss just fired people “at will” without following the company’s discipline process.
It’s not hard to fire a union employee if the employer has all his ducks in a row - meaning the process of verbal, written, suspension then termination has been followed to a “T”.
I managed a clinic with patient care techs that were in a union. That union never interfered with those I had to terminate as I did follow the process.

So H4M will he lose his retirement benefits? I surely hope not.
 
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It's just so Nurmi to jump out of his seat when JM is getting all the attention. Good timing with JA's appeal done for, too. Grab the chance to stick it in her eye, especially since the Appeals decision narrowed on the aspects of the case that were all Jodi, the things that weren"t Nurm's decisions, not least by referencing JA's unauthorized interviews with media, confession, overkill, slaughter details... And, as far as I could see, not even a whiff of "ineffective counsel" in those opinions.
 
I sincerely felt for bad for Nurmi when I heard about his health issues. I read that he had teased the readers in his first book that part two and three were to come. Hopefully his writing made the reader want to turn the page.

When I think back to his performance in court, I can still hear his monotone, boring voice drone on and on. If I was on the jury I would have fallen asleep. I would probably have been awoken when he said "AND" every once in a while though. He was the most boring, ineffective speaker I have heard in many years. I know that shouldn't take away from the points he was trying to make but zzzzzz.
 
I too am very happy Nurmi is healthy now but during the trials his voice was just so annoying to me. His pauses, his monotone, and that darned pen of his! He constantly picked it up and then put it down. So annoying!
I’ll have to pass on the book as I don’t have the device.
 
I'm thinking the now-delayed Elizabeth Holmes's (Theranos) trial will feature a variant of JA. No murder, but billions in fraud, fake good looker, fake blonde, fake voice, creepy eyes, pretend "genius", spinning lies. Sleazy bed partners. Creepy crazy. Documentaries, interviews, lies lies lies. TV will be everywhere. Probably psychologist expert witnesses. I'll bet Holmes has the gall to take the stand, too.
I can't wait to watch this one for the same reasons I stuck with JA all these years. There's something compelling....
 

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