Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

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Part 3.

I think the threads- and threats- began converging around May 18. We don't have the full texts yet for May, but I'm sure they'll reflect that T continued to seek out advise about Lisa from Taylor and from Michelle, as he had done throughout April.

On May 18 T writes in his journal of not being able to sleep, of weeks now spent feeling deep regret, sadness and depression as he comes to understand that he is genuinely in love with Lisa. He realizes that chasing after Mimi et al was his way of diverting himself from those feelings, AND from facing up to what went wrong.

What went wrong, he begins to see with great clarity, keeps coming back to JA.


He writes of Lisa:

"I miss her. I still love her. I thought I'd be over her by now but I am not. Strange feeling." TA. 5/18.


Around this time TA is also IM'ing with Regan H. Some of the IM's flat out mock the killer about her snooping spying ways, the term "stalker" comes up, as does the tire slashing.

May 21. After agonizing about Lisa for many weeks- at least since the end of March, Travis decides at last that he needs to act on his feelings. He writes in his journal "Freaking!!!!!" He's going to call Lisa in 10 minutes to "clear the air." (Texts this to Taylor and Michelle ?) He says- "I'm doing the right thing. Stay tuned."

May 22. Travis writes that Lisa hasn't called back. He says " I am broken up. I made some big mistakes and I am paying for them."
He is even more determined to reach her. He's not going to let it drop, and he's not going to be diverted by anything.


MAY 22. The day the killer texted Travis that she'd done something serious enough that she was calling a lawyer, involved T, urgent, Travis tells her he knows what she did, won't talk with her until she comes clean. They won't be in touch again until May 26.

She writes in her journal this is the day they agreed to share passwords anymore, that they had a big fight because they'd talked about their involvements- she was fine with his, he went ballistic over hearing about Abe and John Dixon, etc.

May 23. Travis writes he still hasn't heard from Lisa, so he will call her again.

May 24. The killer sings the Pledge of Allegiance. Travis not only doesn't come to see her, he stays completely out of touch.

---------

My conclusion: It was always about Lisa. Travis began dating Lisa immediately after breaking up with the killer. Lisa stood in the way when the killer arrived in Mesa. JA became more and more unhinged over Lisa. Seeing Travis with Lisa in August, peeping in the back window, reduced her to incoherent rage and hysteria. She writes in her journal in the fall of something happening that causes her what sounds like a breakdown, that tosses her into an abyss. My guess? One of the days she walked in on Travis hugging Lisa and the two of them exchanging I love you's.

Her journal entries in fall 2007 speak to a woman trying to hold back truly awful thoughts, dark enough she is scared by them. She writes she knows thinking thoughts will make those thoughts reality so she needed to be careful. She hopes thinking good thoughts will bring her what she wants.

She loses control by December, slashing tires, full out stalking Lisa and Travis. She succeeds in breaking them up, twice in 2007 and then again in February 2008. She is no doubt reading T's journal throughout. I believe he wrote of his regret as early as mid-March, which is what prompted her to steal the Lisa journals and the diamond ring.

The killer claims that Travis "came clean" to her about Lisa just before she left Mesa. ( iirc, the killer says Travis physically attacked her during the conversation). That of course was a gigantic lie in the sense that she'd always known about Lisa. I've always thought she told it to distance herself from the tire slashing, etc, and still think that's true.

But I think there was also a grain of truth in what she said, in that I think Travis talked to her about Lisa then, and his feelings for her, and his suspicions about what the killer had done. Travis says as much (though not the feelings part) when he and Michelle text on April 3 and he tells her JA denied slashing the tires and the nasty letter to Lisa had been discussed.

Michelle asks him....how can you believe her when she's lied to you about so much? And T 's reply makes clear he's still willing to believe the killer. Until he finds out by April 8th that she's lied again about how she knew so much about what he said and did with Lisa and Mimi over the previous 6 months.

The killer soothed him yet again after that, but she knew the precariousness of that "understanding." If Travis believed and trusted her enough he would never act on his threat to expose her, or on the "bitter feelings" he was having about her, or on his threat of "revenge" if she kept it up.

By May 21, she knew he'd speak with Lisa and be completely honest with her, the two would compare notes and realize just what she'd done. She would be exposed. Travis would hate her, Lisa would tell, Travis would tell, the word would spread, Travis and Lisa would reconcile, Travis would marry Lisa. It was over.

I think she tried one last thing...the "putting something in the pipeline" when she signed into his FB account as him-- he caught her red handed, and the hacking into his computer to erase a letter he intended for Lisa( he mentions both on May 26).

She may have brought up the sex tape on the 26 but I don't think so. What Travis was waiting for was that last email from her...she'd already said she refused to put anything incriminating in writing.

I don't think there was one last thing on the 26 because I think that last thing had already happened a few days earlier. I think she reached the tipping point of hating Travis by early May, dwelt upon and fed her hatred until the 3rd week of May, and deliberately pushed Travis beyond his breaking point on the 26th to justify to herself the decision she'd already made to kill him.



ETA-- the killer has consistently placed a huge emphasis on that "come clean confession" by Travis of his interest in Lisa. It's there in her journal, in her Manifesto, and in her letter to his family.

I suggest reading what the killer says about wanting to tell Lisa about "being the other woman, " and why she says she didn't. Very revealing, IMO.
 
Just a question for anyone.

The subject of "marriage" came up often for Travis. The question I have is why did Travis feel time pressure to entertain marriage and pursue it as a goal?

He was still relatively young and I don't quite understand why the talk of marriage came up as often as it did.
 
Just a question for anyone.

The subject of "marriage" came up often for Travis. The question I have is why did Travis feel time pressure to entertain marriage and pursue it as a goal?

He was still relatively young and I don't quite understand why the talk of marriage came up as often as it did.

If he was not married before 30, he cannot be in the singles ward.
 
If he was not married before 30, he cannot be in the singles ward.

Thanks. I suspected it may have something to do with his Mormon faith but wasn't sure since I don't know much about it.
 
Just a question for anyone.

The subject of "marriage" came up often for Travis. The question I have is why did Travis feel time pressure to entertain marriage and pursue it as a goal?

He was still relatively young and I don't quite understand why the talk of marriage came up as often as it did.
I'm not Mormon, so not an expert. But I thing the church encourages marriage at a relatively young (20s) age. I read something about Travis soon to be aging out of the singles association in the church soon. Couple that with the fact that they are trying to stay celibate until marriage, you got motivation to marry up.

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Just chuckling to myself and wondering how JA is handling Nurmi's book.

Anyone have access to her file in jail to check to see if she has had any infractions lately (I no longer have the link).

Am sure she is having all kinds of issues with anger, depression, rage not being able to spin his words nor control what he has written.
 
Thanks. I suspected it may have something to do with his Mormon faith but wasn't sure since I don't know much about it.

I know exactly one Mormon family so my knowledge is pretty limited. Their daughter told me she was considered (in Mormon circles) an old maid at 22 because she had just graduated college and wasn't married yet. The only reason she wasn't married was because her boyfriend was converting to Mormonism and had to complete that process and his mission before she could/would marry him. All of her Mormon friends were married before graduating college or right after graduation.
 
Hey Hope, Thanks for the posts- they were well thought out, cross-referenced and incredibly insightful. You did all the work for us- I appreciate it very much. Anyhoo- would you happen to have a link for the manisfesto handy or the letter to his family, whichever one it was your last post references? TIA
 
I know exactly one Mormon family so my knowledge is pretty limited. Their daughter told me she was considered (in Mormon circles) an old maid at 22 because she had just graduated college and wasn't married yet. The only reason she wasn't married was because her boyfriend was converting to Mormonism and had to complete that process and his mission before she could/would marry him. All of her Mormon friends were married before graduating college or right after graduation.


Which may have something to do with Travis choosing younger women to pursue. Most suitable women closer to his age were already married. Mimi was the exception in terms of age, and the only way Travis could understand her not being married yet was that she'd told him she for the most part just didn't like people.

....Travis said Mimi told him that while he was at her house having a meal with Mimi and Mom. Travis joked, what was I supposed to say- pass the salt?
 
Hey Hope, Thanks for the posts- they were well thought out, cross-referenced and incredibly insightful. You did all the work for us- I appreciate it very much. Anyhoo- would you happen to have a link for the manisfesto handy or the letter to his family, whichever one it was your last post references? TIA


Thanks. The only ready links I have to manifesto and letter are on BK's site. If you don't have access...maybe Juror 13's page? Or Court Chatter/Wild About Trials' JA archives?


ETA.. Available as PDF file on State v (FB page, justice4travis).
 
Which may have something to do with Travis choosing younger women to pursue. Most suitable women closer to his age were already married. Mimi was the exception in terms of age, and the only way Travis could understand her not being married yet was that she'd told him she for the most part just didn't like people.

....Travis said Mimi told him that while he was at her house having a meal with Mimi and Mom. Travis joked, what was I supposed to say- pass the salt?

In general, most Mormons tend to get married right after serving a mission, even if they haven't finished college yet. I know someone who got married over the summer, and is now pregnant, all less than a year after getting done with the mission. Both had just served missions, and didn't date for very long before getting married to avoid the temptation of premarital sex. It's not surprising that for Travis, most of the suitable women were married in their early 20's since in some cases, a Mormon woman is considered an old maid if she's not at least engaged by the age of 23.
 
Just chuckling to myself and wondering how JA is handling Nurmi's book.

Anyone have access to her file in jail to check to see if she has had any infractions lately (I no longer have the link).

Am sure she is having all kinds of issues with anger, depression, rage not being able to spin his words nor control what he has written.
If smirking a bit about a lovely turkey dinner with family makes me wrong, I don't wanna be right!

Hope you enjoy that prison fare, girl genius!

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I posted the 4th post from "Picture Perfect" by Shanna Hogan. I can really see why people weren't thrilled with her book. It appears most of the info came from CMJA as she was quoted all through the book. It kinda made me sick.

What I did find interesting, if the dates are actually correct, was that Lisa finally reached back out to Travis on May 28th after his attempts to speak with her went unanswered. If CMJA saw this, could it have prompted the gun theft?
 
I posted the 4th post from "Picture Perfect" by Shanna Hogan. I can really see why people weren't thrilled with her book. It appears most of the info came from CMJA as she was quoted all through the book. It kinda made me sick.

What I did find interesting, if the dates are actually correct, was that Lisa finally reached back out to Travis on May 28th after his attempts to speak with her went unanswered. If CMJA saw this, could it have prompted the gun theft?


I didn't like SH's book for the same reason- she relied heavily on the killer's word, and seemed to accept a great deal of those lies without questioning/research. A fair number of details and dates in the book are inaccurate.

May 28th. Yes, he and Lisa did finally talk that day. I believe it was Taylor who has said Travis to told Lisa everything, including his certainty that JA had slashed the tires and had stalked them even more than she was suspected. Taylor also said Travis was extremely relieved that Lisa gave him a chance to come clean with her.

The killer did steal the gun on the 28th, but I don't know if those two things were directly connected. The killer didn't have much time before Travis left for Cancun, and IMO she didn't need any more motivation to kill him after May 22 at the very latest.
 
I didn't like SH's book for the same reason- she relied heavily on the killer's word, and seemed to accept a great deal of those lies without questioning/research. A fair number of details and dates in the book are inaccurate.


it is an interesting read to compare the newly obtained info we have with the phone call and txt, email records. we can see where she lied (again).
 
Hells ya!

View attachment 85054

I bet after this trip, that's when she decided to go brunette.

Look how much alike the two women are in that photo, as far as bone structure, the cheeks, the eyes, the bared teeth....! But one is "off" in her features, just enough to be not close in attractive quality to the brunette, plus, the brunette just glows.... JA is tense around the mouth, the color of her hair, the lifelessness in her face and hair, the fake cheeks and the McDonalds Golden arches for eyebrows make her look forced. I'm thinking Barbie is JA's heroine.
 
Look how much alike the two women are in that photo, as far as bone structure, the cheeks, the eyes, the bared teeth....! But one is "off" in her features, just enough to be not close in attractive quality to the brunette, plus, the brunette just glows.... JA is tense around the mouth, the color of her hair, the lifelessness in her face and hair, the fake cheeks and the McDonalds Golden arches for eyebrows make her look forced. I'm thinking Barbie is JA's heroine.

BBM. This is the second time in the last week or so that I've seen reference to cheek implants. Did JA get more than a boob job?
 
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