Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

[RickshawFan]

Correct, that's what I stated though, that you can have psychopathy, however the environment is KEY. As for whatever the parents CLAIM the environment was, one thing I've learned is that, you can't really take the word of a biased individual who raised said child. EVER. There is a desire to conceal, you can place toys around your child, yet, neglect and/or influential observance(s) is what seems to make the difference if abusive is absent. Corrective behavior is also key, as is therapy.

I don't see JA's parents as gotten this well off with her, nope. And I see some of those traits in THEM as well. I just read over the post about what Bill said to Sky too in their book (I forgot so many things after I read that book); that's just another example of how ridiculous this family will be to mess with someone's mind after the loss of a loved one, nonetheless.

I do think it's important to note that the absence of abuse does not necessarily keep psychopathy inactive. My point of view comes from this article on children psychopaths. They sound exactly like Jodi.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?_r=0

 

[Hope4More]

TA actually wrote about it in his journal dated May 27/08, P.35/36. Note he said they talked the day before, so the 26th! Sorry if I misread/typed anything, his writing can be a wee bit difficult to read.

"Well I'm in the briefing awaiting my turn to speak. All is well but I have plenty to do tonight. Qualifying for E.D. at the end of the month is getting really old. Not much I can do about this month but soon enough I'll get it fixed. So I talked to Lisa yesterday. She actually called me. It was her being slightly cold me being slightly too nice, and me doing all of the talking. She listened to me. I expressed regret, love, and a desire to be more cordial to each other. She agreed. It was about 30 minutes long. It will allow me to get over stuff. Later Mimi came over, we discussed Cancun. We discussed the whole "friends" thing. I don't really care. It is what it is. However the good news is on Saturday I met a cutie pie on Saturday at my UFC party. I saw her Sunday again at church. Two days ago she requested me as a friend on Facebook. We have been sending email flirts ever since. I got the phone number. We've been texting and now we are hanging out tonight. She is young, 19. She is cute and she has great taste in men. Now I'm excited about something, so it helps. Her name is Brooke Rogers. So time will tell. I'm just happy to have something to think about it. Anyhow it's my time to hit the stage. I'm out. T.V.A."

Val- you are absolutely correct about the date Travis spoke with Lisa. It was on the 26th, not the 28th, and reading back, I think this is the second time you've had to correct me. One bad /incorrect note from awhile ago that keeps on giving.....

Thanks for getting it right.

So, corrected.

May 24 Sat. The off-key warbling of Ntl Anthem by killer, what she thought would be a highlight of her year (center of attention by a crowd). Travis may have agreed at one point to attend (or not), but he not only doesn't go but isn't in touch with her at all.

Travis instead has a UFC party at his house that Saturday. He meets Brooke then, sees her at church the next day-the 25th, and she "likes" him on FB. Flirty texts ate exchanged.

26th. Quite the day for Travis, then. He has the very long email then gchat exchange with the killer (25th into 26th), AND finally has his come clean conversation with Lisa (AFTER the text fight then??), AND has the final yah, just friends conversation with Mimi that afternoon when she comes over to discuss Cancun.

(I guess the full May texts may still clear up a few points).

 

[RickshawFan]

If you study the DOC picture of the killer you can see the hopeless look in her dead eyes. She wasn't startled by the lights, she was crushed by the realization that she was in that awful place for life. I really think she thought something would happen and she would not have to go there. She couldn't keep that desolate look off her face and she wasn't far from tears. Finally a real emotion from her. She is not happy there like she wrote in that stupid note. And no matter what those AA tell her she will not be able to resist writing the COA or the SCA because she thinks she is so smart. Just like the 12 page letter to JSS. I hope she drives them crazy and deny her appeal outright.

BBM. There was a 12-page letter to JSS? After the sentencing? Or is this just the one defending Nurmi?

 

[Hope4More]

From where I sit here looking at this, I don't believe they were ever boyfriend/girlfriend in the sense of being exclusive. In TA's world, monogamy or exclusiveness seems to equate with "marriage material". JA was never marriage material to TA. There was no wish to commit. He doesn't seem really to have worked at commitment. I will leave open the possibility that Sky coerced him into a half-assed version, but Jodi seemed already to have been "not marriage material" by then.

Can you imagine what this all might have looked like if Travis had married Jodi quickly as his faith more or less directed? Travis at least knew himself well enough not to make this happen. Very perceptive. You'd think with her psychopath manipulations, she could have made marriage happen, but no.

Jodi's skills at psychopathy developed substantially during this period—she was getting a lot of practice—but it speaks to Travis' credit that he never buckled on the marriage issue or committed to much of anything.

I don't think they had sex nearly as often as JA wants to claim, but once he had a taste for it, he figured out he could get his jollies with many different kinds of women. It doesn't seem as though Travis was a "player" until he had experience with Jodi.

My question for the day: Why didn't Jodi just chase Gus Searcy? He seems to have been available in the sense that he had a relationship outside of marriage, so faithfulness to vows wasn't an issue. And, he was substantially better off than Travis.

I don't think she had to chase Gus. Just my own speculation, but I think the two did hook up for more than PPL exchanges. Beyond stroking Gus's ego (and whatnot) in exchange for expensive gifts like the "free" Helio, her sights were set on more than the $$$$.

She wanted the friends,the youth, the lifestyle, the reputation etc too....the Travis package, then the Ryan Burns package as substitute. Nothing but the very best.

 

[LinTX]

On that entry it says "No movement". Does that mean she's in solitary, no intermingling with other inmates? Also, it lists "special management". Isn't that a downgrade? Wasn't she able to have lunch with other inmates at some point?

I'l bet she hasn't done her homework yet and done the required reading of the prison rule book as well as her practice exercises on drama management.

Jodi is not getting any review of her status until a year from sentencing. I'll bet that is a looooooong time when you're in solitary and have no chance of advancement. I wonder how she's enjoying having her hair in the required ponytail?

No movement means that her initial classification of 5/2 & placement in Max wasn't changed after her review on 10/28/2015. She has been in PV Special Mgt since the May review - that is basically the 30 yard MaxUnit @ Lumley. With no infractions, she's advancing through the phases of LumleyMaxCustody and is most probably in phase 3 which does increase allow out of cell time for meals, group activities, recreation and eventually possible contact visits.

Not sure what kind of review she had 10/28/2015: Classification rules state a review of Max Custody placement after 180 days and then annually, but for lifers it's still 2 yrs minimum AFAIK. It hadn't been 180 days from her orig classification of 5/13, but if the day count begins when they enter DOC it would have been over 180days. The phase rules for Max also say that after a minimum of 30days in phase 3 the inmate can be reviewed for a change in custody/housing status so that timing may have also prompted the 10/28/2015 review. Either way she might have more movement out of cell, etc. but she's in Max for awhile.

 

[Val1]

From where I sit here looking at this, I don't believe they were ever boyfriend/girlfriend in the sense of being exclusive. In TA's world, monogamy or exclusiveness seems to equate with "marriage material". JA was never marriage material to TA. There was no wish to commit. He doesn't seem really to have worked at commitment. I will leave open the possibility that Sky coerced him into a half-assed version, but Jodi seemed already to have been "not marriage material" by then.

Can you imagine what this all might have looked like if Travis had married Jodi quickly as his faith more or less directed? Travis at least knew himself well enough not to make this happen. Very perceptive. You'd think with her psychopath manipulations, she could have made marriage happen, but no.

Jodi's skills at psychopathy developed substantially during this period—she was getting a lot of practice—but it speaks to Travis' credit that he never buckled on the marriage issue or committed to much of anything.

I don't think they had sex nearly as often as JA wants to claim, but once he had a taste for it, he figured out he could get his jollies with many different kinds of women. It doesn't seem as though Travis was a "player" until he had experience with Jodi.

My question for the day: Why didn't Jodi just chase Gus Searcy? He seems to have been available in the sense that he had a relationship outside of marriage, so faithfulness to vows wasn't an issue. And, he was substantially better off than Travis.

BBM Iirc JA herself had told us they hadn't been exclusive in that letter/email? she had sent TA where she was complaining about him not giving her credit for typing up any of his book, let alone never really acknowledged her as his girlfriend, as opposed to just one of his girl friends. As for GS, she wanted the security and financial advantages that marriage provides and when she first met GS he was still married and apparently going through a nasty divorce, an even worse scenario that she'd just left to chase after TA.

 

[RickshawFan]

No movement means that her initial classification of 5/2 & placement in Max wasn't changed after her review on 10/28/2015. She has been in PV Special Mgt since the May review - that is basically the 30 yard MaxUnit @ Lumley. With no infractions, she's advancing through the phases of LumleyMaxCustody and is most probably in phase 3 which does increase allow out of cell time for meals, group activities, recreation and eventually possible contact visits.

Not sure what kind of review she had 10/28/2015: Classification rules state a review of Max Custody placement after 180 days and then annually, but for lifers it's still 2 yrs minimum AFAIK. It hadn't been 180 days from her orig classification of 5/13, but if the day count begins when they enter DOC it would have been over 180days. The phase rules for Max also say that after a minimum of 30days in phase 3 the inmate can be reviewed for a change in custody/housing status so that timing may have also prompted the 10/28/2015 review. Either way she might have more movement out of cell, etc. but she's in Max for awhile.

Oh, okay. So "special management" is AZ's term for max? Then she goes to "close custody" or something? I'm focused on these terms and privileges, because it seems as though DeVault "upgraded" faster.

Interesting that some of the slapdowns, e.g. for communicating with the outside via her ventmate and soliciting funds, didn't result in an official infraction. No hissy fit infractions either? I guess she's figured out her walls and floor are cement and don't lend themselves to damage from flying fists and tantrum-y feet.....

A little later..... Since I'm always fascinated by institutional rules.... I notice that "movement" also describes moving from e.g. Phase I to Phase II. And 6 months have to be spent in Phase I? And Jodi was listed as "no movement" even though she's already had a 6-month review? So she's still in Phase I?

My favorite education obligation for inmates is "cognitive restructuring"..... This sounds like self-induced brainwashing. I can't even imagine how this concept applies to psychopaths.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

It's her eyes and that hair color.. that color might work on other women, definitely not her. The rest of her face... sigh, I don't want to say anything about her genes but... all she does is highlight the rest of her issues
with that pronounced hair color and blank eyes... :notgood:

I can see why she would be going back to brunette . She has three different shades going on. The ends are the most over processed, and she's got a lot of brassy blonde at the roots. It looks like she has some brown underneath. It looks like she's done the chucking (?) it in the May photo's of her and the dog and others.

The chuncking was popular around that time, so maybe that was the blonde the guy at budget rental saw, and dyed it dark brown on her trip.

 

[Night-owl]

From where I sit here looking at this, I don't believe they were ever boyfriend/girlfriend in the sense of being exclusive. In TA's world, monogamy or exclusiveness seems to equate with "marriage material". JA was never marriage material to TA. There was no wish to commit. He doesn't seem really to have worked at commitment. I will leave open the possibility that Sky coerced him into a half-assed version, but Jodi seemed already to have been "not marriage material" by then.

Can you imagine what this all might have looked like if Travis had married Jodi quickly as his faith more or less directed? Travis at least knew himself well enough not to make this happen. Very perceptive. You'd think with her psychopath manipulations, she could have made marriage happen, but no.

Jodi's skills at psychopathy developed substantially during this period—she was getting a lot of practice—but it speaks to Travis' credit that he never buckled on the marriage issue or committed to much of anything.

I don't think they had sex nearly as often as JA wants to claim, but once he had a taste for it, he figured out he could get his jollies with many different kinds of women. It doesn't seem as though Travis was a "player" until he had experience with Jodi.

My question for the day: Why didn't Jodi just chase Gus Searcy? He seems to have been available in the sense that he had a relationship outside of marriage, so faithfulness to vows wasn't an issue. And, he was substantially better off than Travis.

Gus Searcy? Gus?? Have you seen pictures of Gus? Look, Gus may be fine to take money from, but the goddess that is Jodi sure doesn't want to be seen as his squeeze toy. How debasing.

Plus Gus has been to a few rodeos, doubt he was entranced by her persona at all, just wanted whatever benefits he could get from the deal.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

From where I sit here looking at this, I don't believe they were ever boyfriend/girlfriend in the sense of being exclusive. In TA's world, monogamy or exclusiveness seems to equate with "marriage material". JA was never marriage material to TA. There was no wish to commit. He doesn't seem really to have worked at commitment. I will leave open the possibility that Sky coerced him into a half-assed version, but Jodi seemed already to have been "not marriage material" by then.

Can you imagine what this all might have looked like if Travis had married Jodi quickly as his faith more or less directed? Travis at least knew himself well enough not to make this happen. Very perceptive. You'd think with her psychopath manipulations, she could have made marriage happen, but no.

Jodi's skills at psychopathy developed substantially during this period—she was getting a lot of practice—but it speaks to Travis' credit that he never buckled on the marriage issue or committed to much of anything.

I don't think they had sex nearly as often as JA wants to claim, but once he had a taste for it, he figured out he could get his jollies with many different kinds of women. It doesn't seem as though Travis was a "player" until he had experience with Jodi.

My question for the day: Why didn't Jodi just chase Gus Searcy? He seems to have been available in the sense that he had a relationship outside of marriage, so faithfulness to vows wasn't an issue. And, he was substantially better off than Travis.

It would be awful hard for me to let Gus Scercy touch me, but Jodi wouldn't of minded as long as she had spending money from him. She writes in her journal that he expressed an interest in becoming a Mormon once, but didn't when he found out that he couldn't play cards.

So, who sent Jodi another phone on the 22nd to replace the Helio?

 

[MistyM]

Maintaining that blonde "do" will have cost a fortune. I never understood where all the money was coming from.

i've been a bottled blonde for 25 years and that girl is putting a couple of boxes of drugstore l'oreal product all over her head. if she got her hair done at the salon, it would probably be foiled and different shades of blonde, i can't see a self respecting colorist letting someone walk out with that brassy yellow going on. of course it IS jodi, she may have special requested to make her hair look cheap, it's so damn debasing, and she likes it!

 

[MistyM]

It would be awful hard for me to let Gus Scercy touch me, but Jodi wouldn't of minded as long as she had spending money from him. She writes in her journal that he expressed an interest in becoming a Mormon once, but didn't when he found out that he couldn't play cards.

So, who sent Jodi another phone on the 22nd to replace the Helio?

i'm thinking any hanky panky that may have went on with gus searcy 'empowered' jodi, i mean she was used to using her sexuality to get what she wanted... i doubt she was mentally even in her body while earning her little perks, ALLEGEDLY. lol.

 

[Frigga]

It would be awful hard for me to let Gus Scercy touch me, but Jodi wouldn't of minded as long as she had spending money from him. She writes in her journal that he expressed an interest in becoming a Mormon once, but didn't when he found out that he couldn't play cards.

So, who sent Jodi another phone on the 22nd to replace the Helio?

Helio did, IIRC. Replaced a lost/damaged phone.

 

[T-4-2]

It's not suspicious. I think it's very simple. she said she mailed it two days ago. he checked the mail. There it was. he opened it. Tossed away the envelope in the recycle bin. That could be a bin inside or outside, a shredder, who knows. She wanted to know the postmark--for whatever reason. He didn't bother getting the envelope out of the bin to look at it or he couldn't because he was no longer in the room and didn't feel like going back, he had shredded it, who knows.

Why did she want to see the postmark? Maybe she had to drop it in the mail bin at the post office instead of waiting to get it stamped at the counter. Maybe she put it in the mail bin at the PO after hours. Who knows. But now that he has the handwritten pages, which I'm assuming she copied for herself, he's onto the next thing. Are you still typing it for me?

I don't find this exchange suspicious at all unless she actually mailed it while pretending to have problems doing so between when he asked and the day he got it.

ETA--

My original reason for bringing it up was to show another lie in her manifesto about bringing him the pages on June 4th. But this also shows Jodi's pattern of not dong stuff for him that she says she'll do. There's other instances of her taking forever to do stuff elsewhere in the journals.

BBM. I don't have the intestinal fortitude to read the (ahem) manifesto (or Post-Offense Manipulation Investigation Communication*), so I don't know what all Heinous says there. I'm wondering this, though: In it, does she still maintain that the "detour" to see Travis was a last-minute decision she didn't make until she was en route from Southern California to Utah – an important "fact" in her "mind" because it disproves pre-meditation?

And does she also say that she left Yreka with stuff for Travis (parts of his book, CDs, DVDs, etc, who knows)? During the trial, IIRC, she said that the visit was unplanned, and she said that she brought him stuff. This seems pretty sloppy, even for her.

* AKA "POMIC," as discussed here (using letter to Alexander family as the example):

[video]https://youtu.be/9EyycBXwMzM[/video]

 

[Caylee Advocate]

From where I sit here looking at this, I don't believe they were ever boyfriend/girlfriend in the sense of being exclusive. In TA's world, monogamy or exclusiveness seems to equate with "marriage material". JA was never marriage material to TA. There was no wish to commit. He doesn't seem really to have worked at commitment. I will leave open the possibility that Sky coerced him into a half-assed version, but Jodi seemed already to have been "not marriage material" by then.

Can you imagine what this all might have looked like if Travis had married Jodi quickly as his faith more or less directed? Travis at least knew himself well enough not to make this happen. Very perceptive. You'd think with her psychopath manipulations, she could have made marriage happen, but no.

Jodi's skills at psychopathy developed substantially during this period—she was getting a lot of practice—but it speaks to Travis' credit that he never buckled on the marriage issue or committed to much of anything.

I don't think they had sex nearly as often as JA wants to claim, but once he had a taste for it, he figured out he could get his jollies with many different kinds of women. It doesn't seem as though Travis was a "player" until he had experience with Jodi.

My question for the day: Why didn't Jodi just chase Gus Searcy? He seems to have been available in the sense that he had a relationship outside of marriage, so faithfulness to vows wasn't an issue. And, he was substantially better off than Travis.

BBM:

My hubby asked me this very question a long time ago. I think she used Gus for money, and perhaps gave him a little something in return. :shame:

 

[RickshawFan]

Gus Searcy? Gus?? Have you seen pictures of Gus? Look, Gus may be fine to take money from, but the goddess that is Jodi sure doesn't want to be seen as his squeeze toy. How debasing.

Plus Gus has been to a few rodeos, doubt he was entranced by her persona at all, just wanted whatever benefits he could get from the deal.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

"Squeeze toy." Bwahahaha! Yeah, but Jodi was attracted to all kinds of creeps, and doing oneself up like a hussy kinda lends itself to creep karma. It's mind boggling to me that she thought the hussiness she was projecting with every body part and draping herself over unavailable (including married) men would ever fit in the Mormon scheme of things. I bet JM's book has more to say about her insidious inroads into the lives of many other men. She probably stole their ID's as well, not to mention taking compromising photos to be sent to their wives.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

It would be awful hard for me to let Gus Scercy touch me, but Jodi wouldn't of minded as long as she had spending money from him. She writes in her journal that he expressed an interest in becoming a Mormon once, but didn't when he found out that he couldn't play cards.

So, who sent Jodi another phone on the 22nd to replace the Helio?

Hmm.. Gus or Daryl, Daryl or Gus? ICK, neither!! :scared:

 

[T-4-2]

And speaking of Jodi's sloppier lies... I wish Det. Flores had said something like "Jodi, WTF are you even talking about?" She tells him that one day while she was cleaning Travis' house, one of his roommates took it upon himself to tell her that "Travis is dating," to which Jodi replies, "I know." Then she tells Det. Flores that she confronted Travis about it that night, they had a big fight, and he assured her he wasn't dating anybody. But he was, Jodi knew he was, so what could she possibly have had to confront him about? It's like she hadn't decided yet to go with the "he was trying to court me back" nonsense, or go with the we're-just-friends-and-I-want-him-to-be-happy nonsense. It's really no wonder Travis was infuriated by her lies – she says things that are so ridiculous that they actually insult a person's intelligence. Which reminds me of something else (see clip 2).

[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7421619[/video]

[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7421759[/video]

 

[LinTX]

Oh, okay. So "special management" is AZ's term for max? Then she goes to "close custody" or something? I'm focused on these terms and privileges, because it seems as though DeVault "upgraded" faster.

Interesting that some of the slapdowns, e.g. for communicating with the outside via her ventmate and soliciting funds, didn't result in an official infraction. No hissy fit infractions either? I guess she's figured out her walls and floor are cement and don't lend themselves to damage from flying fists and tantrum-y feet.....

A little later..... Since I'm always fascinated by institutional rules.... I notice that "movement" also describes moving from e.g. Phase I to Phase II. And 6 months have to be spent in Phase I? And Jodi was listed as "no movement" even though she's already had a 6-month review? So she's still in Phase I?

My favorite education obligation for inmates is "cognitive restructuring"..... This sounds like self-induced brainwashing. I can't even imagine how this concept applies to psychopaths.

DeVault shows a review at 6 mos too, also with "no movement". She began working 5 mos after entry, even with min violations. I suspect they may have JA classified as high profile for now. If so, working may require too much oversight to risk having her out of her cell for work, especially since her fans keep her commissary acct filled anyway. Any time allowed out of her cell per her phase incentives may only be in 'selected' groups of inmates.

Movement on her status page does not include phases, that info is not furnished to the public. What you see on that chart is movement in terms of custody status and/or housing placement as determined by staff&Admin review process. Rules call for reviews at specified times for all inmates in Max, but most are not serving life - that sentence is what makes 2 yrs in Max mandatory. So even though her status can't change, I suppose they review anyway b/c the rules call for one @ 6 mos for everyone? The "review" was probably just signing paperwork from a stack of ineligible inmates.

The chart shows 30days min between all phases. With no infractions as shown, she should be in Phase 3, and has probably been for 3 to 4 months now .

 

[RickshawFan]

And speaking of Jodi's sloppier lies... I wish Det. Flores had said something like "Jodi, WTF are you even talking about?" She tells him that one day while she was cleaning Travis' house, one of his roommates took it upon himself to tell her that "Travis is dating," to which Jodi replies, "I know." Then she tells Det. Flores that she confronted Travis about it that night, they had a big fight, and he assured her he wasn't dating anybody. But he was, Jodi knew he was, so what could she possibly have had to confront him about? It's like she hadn't decided yet to go with the "he was trying to court me back" nonsense, or go with the we're-just-friends-and-I-want-him-to-be-happy nonsense. It's really no wonder Travis was infuriated by her lies – she says things that are so ridiculous that they actually insult a person's intelligence. Which reminds me of something else (see clip 2).

[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7421619[/video]

[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/7421759[/video]

Wow! That detective is hard-assing Jodi. I didn't realize she was ever like that during the interrogation. Jodi doesn't seem to know what to do with a hardass woman detective.