Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #4

[Hope4More]

Re BBM

Yes, I think maybe the purpose of resetting the dates on the pics was twofold.

1-to get Travis in trouble with his girlfriends and ruin his reputation forever. This was the main reason as she was very vindictive and it wasn't good enough just to kill him.

2-to leave the pictures on the camera as proof of Travis liking her so she would not be a suspect in his murder. She would have to make the dates old enough to be back when she was known to last be there.

I think what happened is she had too much trouble with the dates and it was taking too long messing with it and so she then tried just deleting them all but the thumbnails remained.
I think she may have gotten some blood drops or stains on it too in the nooks and crannies and I think she intended on taking the camera with her OR tried to wash the camera and was going to put it back after the wash cycle but just plain forgot about the camera in washer.

I do think the time was getting late and she began rushing towards the end and she started to panic to leave.

Watching the interview with detective when he tells her about the pics is hilarious seeing her reaction. She never expected any photos to be on the camera. She thought she had deleted them all. And if I remember right she seemed to be hinting that the dates could be manipulated on the pics which is a sign she had fooled with the dates.

Travis bought the camera after she left Mesa, and she didn't return there until June 4th to murder him. So, she couldn't plant nekked pics on his camera without incriminating herself.

So, one question has been if she could have used a memory stick belonging to TA, without realizing there were nekked pics on it.

She did take those pics of Travis in the shower on the 4th, though its possible the timestamps are incorrect.

Assumption- he knew she was taking the pics. Why would she want to take them? Most logically- to place herself near the shower without making him suspicious.

Assumption- he didn't know she was taking the pics. Why would she take them? As trophies for herself? To suggest TA had been intimate with his killer, no evidence that it was she?

 

[RickshawFan]

writing all those words on yourself would be funny. the girls might be a more likely reason? lol, who knows. i remember this video from 2007/8

[video=youtube;lLYD_-A_X5E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYD_-A_X5E[/video]

eta: no wonder she called the video silly or stupid. she was probably jealous he was looking at other girls!

Not to get the general drift thrown off.... But we've come to the conclusion neither he nor Jodi saw this video, right? That it was a video without the boxes? Same young women? Same Daft Punk? But different silliness?

And now Hope is suggesting JA got to his computer, used the backspace (or maybe History?), to snoop and see what he was doing for the last day or so, saw the Daft Punk words, was relieved it was a video and he wasn't emailing/texting girlfriends, didn't realize there were other Daft Punk videos of similar name, was so obsessed she watched it when she got on the road (at a rest area?) 'cos she just had to see what Travis was up to, dragged up the Daft Punk thing with the tin foil boxes when EF questioned her, but that was not, in fact, the video TA was watching?

Yeah, I could see her doing that...

In response to a different question, telling EF they were watching videos after she got there was to demonstrate that TA was relaxed when he saw her and they proceeded to do relaxed and mundane things: that it was nothing unusual for them to "hang out".

 

[Hope4More]

Tried to watch my second tape of the PP2 trial (the first and only I've watched is of Demarte, bless her).

Flores was up...and all Nurmi wants to discuss is whether, line by line, each thing she invented on the May 2 email is consistent with LDS values.

No can do. Ever. Still as vile as it was originally.

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM1 - Imo JM confused her with the time zone differences so she tried to keep it vague.

BBM2 - Imo it has to do with what she said in her initial contact with Det.F. when "she asked how she would go about getting some of her belongings she left at Travis' house. She apparently left some of her clothing behind."
http://murderpedia.org/female.A/images/arias-jodi/flores-investigation-report.pdf


I have a question too, what ever happened with the whole thing about JA having initially been booked for Cancun until sometime in April after she'd finally left Mesa, when TA gave the ticket to MH, but had apparently told JA it was to pay back the Hughes' and was giving it to their nanny? http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/22/was-jodi-booked-cancun-trip-travis

Did the source not pan out, or was this yet another bit of evidence that JM felt wasn't necessary to get a conviction?

Regarding how JA seemed to want to make sure everyone knew Travis took her luggage into the house....

a) 'cos gentlemen do that and she was worth the treatment

b) because Travis told her hell no

c) she's trying to suggest that TA facilitated her being there, aka she was "guilted"

d) she has to get the luggage into the house because the backpack has the weapons

e) she just likes this touch because that's what Humphrey Bogart does...

Ironically, Jodi is using "he took my luggage into the house" to convey normalcy, when it was normal for her actually to sneak into the house....


BTW....if she did the murder in that red shirt, as everyone seems to think, the murder can't have been late in the afternoon: by then, she would have worn that shirt for at least 24 hours straight without changing. Not happening for Jodi, folks: she woulda changed three times.

 

[RickshawFan]

Posted this in wrong thread- journals. Sorry. Reposting here.


(Got side-tracked from March timeline, lol).

June 4 story on direct. (David Lohr video, Day 19)
*****

I had a key, but after moving back to Yreka I took it off my keyring. Didn’t knock on front door because I never did, it especially when I was expected. It was easier to just go inside.

Luggage. I had- a backpack, carry on size luggage, my laptop (it reappears, I guess) my purse. And did you bring these items with you or leave them in car?

I think….he came outside to get them for me, or I just went inside. (1:43)

Nurmi- WHAT WAS THAT???

She says very quickly- I just went inside. (wouldn’t match timeline about watching videos?)

I went to his office, the light was on, assumed he was in there. Peeked inside. He was on his laptop with his back to me. Watching music videos -or something -on YouTube (Lohr, day 19, 1:45).

Did he see you initially? No. With Naps. I thought he looked cute sitting there watching really dumb videos so I just stood in the doorway for a minute. Naps was laying down so didn’t notice for me for about a minute.

To the best of my recollection the video he was watching had people with boxes on their heads or tin foil on their bodies or just on their heads.

Travis came over to doorway where I was. What did he say? “Maybe he greets me.”

After a prompt from Nurmi: I remember more what he did. A smile and a kiss. Definitely a romantic kiss. Maybe sexual, definitely sensual and warm, his body language…pulling me in.

******

BBM The question about why the luggage theme and whether she had to change her lie about whether or not Travis got it for her, and whether this was to accommodate the video timing....

I think we're trying to hard on this issue....

While she's developing the lie, she gives a multiple choice answer. She does this a lot. Nurmi tells her to pick option (b).

He got her attention, so she travels on in the (b) direction....

Not because the (a) direction wouldn't fit the video timing, but because it wouldn't fit the scenario of walking in on Travis and surprising him. That simple.

And she was so in love with this image of herself and the romance of the moment and the Humphrey Bogarting of her arrival, and the tenderness, and the welcoming and warmth......She's so all carried away with the "florid" that she almost kills her lie...

Okay, so she just "peeks" and sees him in his office. Jodi's peeks are always snoops and they're scary: she can't do a 5-year-old peek to save her life.

Then, she describes him as "cute". Her lie is drifting away right here, because her vocabulary has rewound to G-rated and she's bereft of Humphrey Bogart descriptions. "Cute" is definitely not in HB's vocabulary or thoughts.

But "cute" sounds just so benign..... And then she gives out a hypothetical "Maybe he greets me" and determines that would be a good track for the next lies and it gives her her HB stage set all over.....

You can just so see her mind working, and how she starts with a seed of a lie, tests it out, and then goes with it full bore.

She makes lies by having an image in her head and then describing the image. [This might be how her "art" works, too.]

These lies have two threads going: the 5-year-old vocabulary one and the Humphrey Bogart one. With the first, she's trying to sound like an innocent child, and in the second like a movie star. Her version of both. But she leans towards the HB thing. I believe we can conclude that neither is for real.


Now, the real question, are we talking Humphrey Bogart, Rhett Butler, or Barbara Cartland?


BTW I don't think Jodi ever read a lot. She gets this stuff from movies....

 

[RickshawFan]

From looking at the whole pic of the office, I would say it's a bundle of things labeled with #32, I can see a laptop on the bottom and what looks like a landline/answering machine on top of that with one of the cordless receivers and possibly a wired mouse with the wire wrapped around it on the right with the exhibit number to the right of the bundle and what looks like the other phone cordless receiver on the other side next to the speaker and what's likely the laptop power cord. The desktop cpu is down beside the desk, not sure where or what kind of monitor TA would have used... or where the keyboard for the cpu is, though I suppose it could be hidden on the slide out on the desk.

Is that maybe a video/TV remote towards the right? Just at a weird angle?

 

[RickshawFan]

Re BBM

Yes, I think maybe the purpose of resetting the dates on the pics was twofold.

1-to get Travis in trouble with his girlfriends and ruin his reputation forever. This was the main reason as she was very vindictive and it wasn't good enough just to kill him.

2-to leave the pictures on the camera as proof of Travis liking her so she would not be a suspect in his murder. She would have to make the dates old enough to be back when she was known to last be there.

I think what happened is she had too much trouble with the dates and it was taking too long messing with it and so she then tried just deleting them all but the thumbnails remained.
I think she may have gotten some blood drops or stains on it too in the nooks and crannies and I think she intended on taking the camera with her OR tried to wash the camera and was going to put it back after the wash cycle but just plain forgot about the camera in washer.

I do think the time was getting late and she began rushing towards the end and she started to panic to leave.

Watching the interview with detective when he tells her about the pics is hilarious seeing her reaction. She never expected any photos to be on the camera. She thought she had deleted them all. And if I remember right she seemed to be hinting that the dates could be manipulated on the pics which is a sign she had fooled with the dates.

Great input.

And yes, she volunteered to EF that the time clock on the camera could be manipulated and she knew how to do it.

Maybe she had already rehearsed meddling with the time on the Sony when she "borrowed" Zach's camera. Then, at crunch time, when she wanted to fiddle with Travis', she forgot exactly how she did it. I wonder if Zach's settings were off when the camera was returned....

 

[geevee]

Perhaps murder had been done before 3pm... really, the only thing that "proves" what time it happened was the pics from a camera which could not be checked for the accuracy of it's time or date because the battery was dead before it was tested.

It occurred to me last night as I was falling alseep - unless a person plans on taking pictures intentionally with a time and date stamp - who ever sets the time on a camera? Most probably don't even set the date, and if you have a camera with removable batteries you might take them out after using the camera to preserve the battery life and lose the time and date settings each time (I did that with my Kodak that had non-rechargable batteries, not sure which type Travis' Sony had but they look like AAs in the pics).

I don't think many people ever set the Time on a camera, so why would we expect that to be correct in the nudes or the shower pics? It just hadn't occurred before that we're talking about a camera, shoot, how long did he have the laptop and never set it to Windows' particular time zone for Arizona so that it was off by an hour for more than half a year every year?

 

[Hatfield]

It occurred to me last night as I was falling alseep - unless a person plans on taking pictures intentionally with a time and date stamp - who ever sets the time on a camera? Most probably don't even set the date, and if you have a camera with removable batteries you might take them out after using the camera to preserve the battery life and lose the time and date settings each time (I did that with my Kodak that had non-rechargable batteries, not sure which type Travis' Sony had but they look like AAs in the pics).

I don't think many people ever set the Time on a camera, so why would we expect that to be correct in the nudes or the shower pics? It just hadn't occurred before that we're talking about a camera, shoot, how long did he have the laptop and never set it to Windows' particular time zone for Arizona so that it was off by an hour for more than half a year every year?

Agree. I never set the date/time on my Canon digital camera.

Like you mention, it gets to be too much of a hassle and since all I want is the pictures and I usually place them in folders that are labeled with a date so I don't really care what the camera does with them since I delete them once I put on laptop folder.

I also don't set the date/time on other devices like my car's radio clock. LOL

 

[Hatfield]

Great input.

And yes, she volunteered to EF that the time clock on the camera could be manipulated and she knew how to do it.

Maybe she had already rehearsed meddling with the time on the Sony when she "borrowed" Zach's camera. Then, at crunch time, when she wanted to fiddle with Travis', she forgot exactly how she did it. I wonder if Zach's settings were off when the camera was returned....

Good point about Zachs camera. I agree and I bet he found something different when he got his camera back. She had to have done something with it. He probably didn't think it was important whatever it was he noticed.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I.e. It jammed because of a silencer when she reached for it first to kill him, she stabbed him etc., then she thought to remove the silencer and the gun worked?

So she tried to shoot him first? And ended up successfully shooting him last?

She wouldn't even necessarily have had to use the silencer found in her grandparents' house. Maybe that silencer was for the gun she bought? Some random silencer altogether?

She could have bought a silencer for the .25 not knowing the grandparents had a silencer? And then ditched it with the gun?

I believe the silencer was at her parents home, it was her Dad's IIRC. Still, she could have "borrowed" it.

 

[Hatfield]

Travis bought the camera after she left Mesa, and she didn't return there until June 4th to murder him. So, she couldn't plant nekked pics on his camera without incriminating herself.
So, one question has been if she could have used a memory stick belonging to TA, without realizing there were nekked pics on it.

She did take those pics of Travis in the shower on the 4th, though its possible the timestamps are incorrect.

Assumption- he knew she was taking the pics. Why would she want to take them? Most logically- to place herself near the shower without making him suspicious.

Assumption- he didn't know she was taking the pics. Why would she take them? As trophies for herself? To suggest TA had been intimate with his killer, no evidence that it was she?

Re BBM

I didn't realize he bought the camera after her last normal visit there.

Hmmmm. That is interesting. I guess I am back to maybe she was planning to take the camera with her and make it look like the murderer stole it. And back to the theory that she rested it on top of washer and as it went through a cycle with the vibrations, it fell into washer and with all the suds and water she did not see it in there and forgot where she left it and couldn't find it. LOL

I keep flip flopping because JA makes my head spin. LOL

 

[Hope4More]

March timeline, comparing texts, etc. with her journal entries. (Text and journal information are from Beth Karas On Crime subscription website. I've paraphrased both journal entries and texts).


Saturday March 1 - Sunday March 2.

(On Thursday Travis is desperately trying to meet his player's club end of the month quota and the killer is "helping." This is when she first gets Zach's number.

On Friday Travis had his rock climbing date with Mimi. He texted her a thanks for the date around 11pm. At 11:51pm the killer texts him that his garage door is open, he tells her to close it, she says close it yourself, she’s halfway home).


Saturday. 3.1.08 (from texts). TA text-flirting with CL. Into the early AM, ask each other if they’re going to the tax seminar next day, neither commits to going and they agree to check with each other in the morning to ask. At 9:40am CL tells TA she’s not going.

Right before 11am killer texts TA-I have an idea, he says -oh boy, she suggests going to the pizza place he was planning on taking her to the week before, but she blew him off and went to Las Vegas instead. Because there are “4 hours open now.”

He doesn’t respond. 11:20am she texts- guess that means no.

He replies to a Sky text at 11:51am, then no texts until a 6:55pm blast about his UFC party in 40 minutes.

She texts him at 9:28pm that she hopes he is enjoying the party, and can she drive his car to church the next day, that she’ll return it someday afterwards. He says sure. A little before midnight she says she’s out and about, can they switch cars now? Next and last text is from TA to CL at 1:47am saying she had stood him up.

Note: This is the day (Saturday) she says Travis hit her in the car when she told him she was moving back to Yreka.


Sunday. 3.2.08. (texts). Texted with Lisa a few times before noon, friendly, about safe topics. Next texts are around 4pm.
TA is having brake problems with her car- she tells him to pump the brakes, that she herself is stranded and needs his help, she’s missed church; then, never mind I solved the problem but I know you would have rescued me.

ALL of these texts are sent within a minute- at 4:06.

Travis replies- at 4:22 -- you don’t keep your word. Just return my car.

Three minutes later he invites folks over for a cookie bake, telling friends he’s in a bad mood and needs cheering up. He tells Michelle he has drama to tell her about.

The killer leaves him a message while his friends are over, he tells her that and that he’ll save her some cookies. Friends stay at least until 11pm.

She texts him at 2:04AM that “you try so hard to be wonderful and you are.”


COMPARE:

Sunday. 3.2.08. (her journal). Went to TA’s on Friday. Fell asleep cleaning, was there when he came back from Mimi rock date. Seemed to go OK.

On Saturday Travis picked me up to go to the tax seminar. We didn’t go, though. Ate out for breakfast at Fili B's (a Mexican restaurant, fwiw).

On the way back from that I told him I was moving back to Yreka, and some things I’ve wanted to say for a long time. Bittersweet…..he kissed me 3 wonderful sweet times.

I also told him I wouldn’t be doing PPL anymore. Then we went back to his house so I could pack up a few things, but we got naughty instead. Moving will help with that. I helped him clean for his UFC party. I don’t like UFC, but Lonnie asked me over to watch it there, and I went and enjoyed it.

Travis called after me after I got home and we talked for an hour and a half. We made jokes about Facebook and what our kids would look like. “Just funny funny.”


(A second journal entry for Sunday, March 2). Wish I could turn back the clock and make different decisions. Anxious about moving. Need to “breathe deeply and flow.” Looking forward to seeing Luna and siblings (She’s flying back to photograph a cousin’s wedding).

 

[Hatfield]

I believe the silencer was at her parents home, it was her Dad's IIRC. Still, she could have "borrowed" it.

Yeah, and I had forgotten she probably dumped the gun and other evidence on her way back.
So if she brought a silencer then she probably dumped it too. It is possible the father had more than 1 silencer so I am leaving open the possibility that she had a silencer on the gun. But she most likely dumped it with the gun on way home if she had one.
I suppose she could have brought just the silencer back and put it back where it was if it was at her parents house too. That is possible since she may have thought nobody could ever tell a shell was fired through it. Wonder if LE tested the silencer to see if recent gunpowder residue was in it or any markings.

Also someone had highlighted that she put an "!" (exclamation point) after Lake Powell.
I wonder if that is where she dumped the evidence into Lake Powell. If that lake is on the route towards the guy friends house (Ryan?--cant remember his name?) then I would suspect Lake Powell may be where she dumped the gun.

I used to think Hoover Dam but that exclamation point really has me wondering now. She loved to write notes in her journals and that could have been a sign about where evidence is dumped.

If she had ever been to Lake Powell before with someone else then that could be the exact spot if anyone knows exactly where she went in Lake Powell.

 

[Hatfield]

One other point about a silencer.

I actually have seen one once. They make different kinds. The one I saw would be almost impossible to tell what kind of shell was ever fired through it because the inside of the barrel of the silencer was made up of small wires. It was like a wire brush.

It had all these small wires on inside like a wire brush. The hole was almost invisible because the bullet would force its way through the bristles and reduce the sound of the noise.

Anyway just wanted to add this since if she had known about that then she may have thought she could bring it back and LE would never be able to prove what shell was ever fired through it.

Because it would leave no shell markings or anything like that. LE could find gunpowder residue though. Not sure if they would be able to tell if recently used or not.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I'm Not Going To Be Ignored Travis!

 

[RickshawFan]

I believe the silencer was at her parents home, it was her Dad's IIRC. Still, she could have "borrowed" it.

Correct. But I'm also not suggesting she used that particular silencer. Hatfield's description of what happens when you use a silencer gave me a hypothetical....

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Val1 had posted this in Feb. 2015.





I also find her revised list of goals, Vol.5,P.81-83 rather interesting, particularly on her list of places, isn't #10 on one of the backroads between Mesa and SLC? Btw, the all caps is from her.

14. Places on the list:
1. Cooperstown
2. Hotel del Coronada
3. Death Valley
4. Mo Tab
5. Zion Nat. Park
6. Moab Desert
7. Oregon Coast
8. Shakespeare Festival
9. DC
10. LAKE POWELL!

 

[Hope4More]

Val1 had posted this in Feb. 2015.





I also find her revised list of goals, Vol.5,P.81-83 rather interesting, particularly on her list of places, isn't #10 on one of the backroads between Mesa and SLC? Btw, the all caps is from her.

14. Places on the list:
1. Cooperstown
2. Hotel del Coronada
3. Death Valley
4. Mo Tab
5. Zion Nat. Park
6. Moab Desert
7. Oregon Coast
8. Shakespeare Festival
9. DC
10. LAKE POWELL!

She testified that while at TA's house on the 4th she realized that she wasn't going to be able to reach Lake Powell before sunset-- the route she said she intended out of AZ on her way to SLC. So she stayed awhile longer to make Travis happy.

 

[franquerolane]

We always go through Page (town on Lake Powell) when we go to SLC.