Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #4

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I don't think she went to Lake Powell at all, we know she was in Mesquite because of the debit on her bank statement and going to Lake Powell from Mesquite would have added 9 extra hours to her drive up to SLC. Not that she couldn't have, given how much extra time there is between the VM to Travis and her arrival in SLC but I doubt it since I'm not sure the 3 cans of gas would have gotten her to LP and then SLC (617 miles from last gas purchase in Mesquite).
 
March timeline, comparing texts, etc. with her journal entries. (Text and journal information are from Beth Karas On Crime subscription website. I've paraphrased both journal entries and texts).


Saturday March 1 - Sunday March 2.

(On Thursday Travis is desperately trying to meet his player's club end of the month quota and the killer is "helping." This is when she first gets Zach's number.

On Friday Travis had his rock climbing date with Mimi. He texted her a thanks for the date around 11pm. At 11:51pm the killer texts him that his garage door is open, he tells her to close it, she says close it yourself, she’s halfway home).


Saturday. 3.1.08 (from texts). TA text-flirting with CL. Into the early AM, ask each other if they’re going to the tax seminar next day, neither commits to going and they agree to check with each other in the morning to ask. At 9:40am CL tells TA she’s not going.

Right before 11am killer texts TA-I have an idea, he says -oh boy, she suggests going to the pizza place he was planning on taking her to the week before, but she blew him off and went to Las Vegas instead. Because there are “4 hours open now.”

He doesn’t respond. 11:20am she texts- guess that means no.

He replies to a Sky text at 11:51am, then no texts until a 6:55pm blast about his UFC party in 40 minutes.

She texts him at 9:28pm that she hopes he is enjoying the party, and can she drive his car to church the next day, that she’ll return it someday afterwards. He says sure. A little before midnight she says she’s out and about, can they switch cars now? Next and last text is from TA to CL at 1:47am saying she had stood him up.

Note: This is the day (Saturday) she says Travis hit her in the car when she told him she was moving back to Yreka.


Sunday. 3.2.08. (texts). Texted with Lisa a few times before noon, friendly, about safe topics. Next texts are around 4pm.
TA is having brake problems with her car- she tells him to pump the brakes, that she herself is stranded and needs his help, she’s missed church; then, never mind I solved the problem but I know you would have rescued me.

ALL of these texts are sent within a minute- at 4:06.

Travis replies- at 4:22 -- you don’t keep your word. Just return my car.

Three minutes later he invites folks over for a cookie bake, telling friends he’s in a bad mood and needs cheering up. He tells Michelle he has drama to tell her about.

The killer leaves him a message while his friends are over, he tells her that and that he’ll save her some cookies. Friends stay at least until 11pm.

She texts him at 2:04AM that “you try so hard to be wonderful and you are.”


COMPARE:

Sunday. 3.2.08. (her journal). Went to TA’s on Friday. Fell asleep cleaning, was there when he came back from Mimi rock date. Seemed to go OK.

On Saturday Travis picked me up to go to the tax seminar. We didn’t go, though. Ate out for breakfast at Fili B's (a Mexican restaurant, fwiw).

On the way back from that I told him I was moving back to Yreka, and some things I’ve wanted to say for a long time. Bittersweet…..he kissed me 3 wonderful sweet times.

I also told him I wouldn’t be doing PPL anymore. Then we went back to his house so I could pack up a few things, but we got naughty instead. Moving will help with that. I helped him clean for his UFC party. I don’t like UFC, but Lonnie asked me over to watch it there, and I went and enjoyed it.

Travis called after me after I got home and we talked for an hour and a half. We made jokes about Facebook and what our kids would look like. “Just funny funny.”


(A second journal entry for Sunday, March 2). Wish I could turn back the clock and make different decisions. Anxious about moving. Need to “breathe deeply and flow.” Looking forward to seeing Luna and siblings (She’s flying back to photograph a cousin’s wedding).

Wow! Fabulous juxtaposition.

It's clear from this that whatever Jodi says in her journals is fabrication. It doesn't correspond at all to the text records. I would venture to bet she and TA actually had little contact in this general time frame, certainly nothing even obliquely "romantic". Her texts to him are insertions into his other conversations or ways to tangle him up so he can't get on with his life. She's not at his UFC party or the cookie bake. She was evidently in his house without permission while he was out with Mimi and then when he presumably called her on it, she left in a huff with the garage door wide open.
 
We always go through Page (town on Lake Powell) when we go to SLC.

Would it make sense she could go to Lake Powell before visiting the friends (Ryan?) house OR is that totally out of the way?

I see that it is not too far from Hoover Dam area.
 
Sorry everybody, I have to throw another monkey wrench to our baffling timeline. Almost don't want to post what I found, but this fact may become handy later...

[video=youtube;LdKpVpc-ank]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKpVpc-ank[/video]
Day 33, retrial, Brown's testimony
Watch from 21:00 to 23:30.

According to Brown, Travis' computer was set on Pacific Standard Time (California time).
And because his computer automatically adjusts to Daylight Savings Time,
The time on computer (ie, 2:44 pm in June) = Arizona time (ie, 2:44 pm in June)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words,
During winter (Nov - Mar) : Mountain Standard Time = AZ time
During summer (Mar - Nov) : Pacific Standard Time = AZ time
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words,
During winter : Travis' computer 1:44 pm = AZ time 2:44 pm.
During Summer: Travis' computer 2:44 pm = AZ time 2:44 pm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the spybot access time was at 2:44 pm, because it was during summer. (if Brown is correct vs Neumeister)
 
I don't think she went to Lake Powell at all, we know she was in Mesquite because of the debit on her bank statement and going to Lake Powell from Mesquite would have added 9 extra hours to her drive up to SLC. Not that she couldn't have, given how much extra time there is between the VM to Travis and her arrival in SLC but I doubt it since I'm not sure the 3 cans of gas would have gotten her to LP and then SLC (617 miles from last gas purchase in Mesquite).


ok...thanks. This may answer the question I just posted about whether it made sense to go through Lake powell.
 
Yeah, and I had forgotten she probably dumped the gun and other evidence on her way back.
So if she brought a silencer then she probably dumped it too. It is possible the father had more than 1 silencer so I am leaving open the possibility that she had a silencer on the gun. But she most likely dumped it with the gun on way home if she had one.
I suppose she could have brought just the silencer back and put it back where it was if it was at her parents house too. That is possible since she may have thought nobody could ever tell a shell was fired through it. Wonder if LE tested the silencer to see if recent gunpowder residue was in it or any markings.

Also someone had highlighted that she put an "!" (exclamation point) after Lake Powell.
I wonder if that is where she dumped the evidence into Lake Powell. If that lake is on the route towards the guy friends house (Ryan?--cant remember his name?) then I would suspect Lake Powell may be where she dumped the gun.

I used to think Hoover Dam but that exclamation point really has me wondering now. She loved to write notes in her journals and that could have been a sign about where evidence is dumped.

If she had ever been to Lake Powell before with someone else then that could be the exact spot if anyone knows exactly where she went in Lake Powell.


I suppose her grandparents could also have had a silencer that got stolen along with the .25. They might even have forgotten they owned such a thing so that it wasn't reported missing.

Lake Powell was an unlikely way to get to SLC from Mesa, since her phone pinged in NW Arizona IIRC not far from Kingman. I believe she also had some receipts from the Las Vegas area. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

On the other hand, I don't put any stock in whatever she told Byrnes about her whereabouts when she called.

The Lake Powell route does have some potential—theoretically she could have seen a sign that Las Vegas was around 100 miles away (a detail she gave to RB)—but dropping murder weapons downstream from the dam would have been a really bad plan, since the Grand Canyon is chock a block with tourists, rafters, hikers, paddlers.... Upstream, a murder package could have become snagged on the dam intakes and/or got itself beached as the reservoir lowered.

She might also have considered the Lake Powell route but decided not to go that way. She's such an interstate kind of gal, and I doubt she had a chance to scout out Lake Powell. When was that "Lake Powell!" written?

Does anyone know exactly where her phone pinged? Per the EF interrogation, I thought it was in NW Arizona not in the same valley as the interstate, but I've seen on this forum that it was Kingman?

If she went via Lake Powell, she coulda got to SLC a bunch sooner than she did....
 
BBM The question about why the luggage theme and whether she had to change her lie about whether or not Travis got it for her, and whether this was to accommodate the video timing....

I think we're trying to hard on this issue....

While she's developing the lie, she gives a multiple choice answer. She does this a lot. Nurmi tells her to pick option (b).

He got her attention, so she travels on in the (b) direction....

Not because the (a) direction wouldn't fit the video timing, but because it wouldn't fit the scenario of walking in on Travis and surprising him. That simple.

And she was so in love with this image of herself and the romance of the moment and the Humphrey Bogarting of her arrival, and the tenderness, and the welcoming and warmth......She's so all carried away with the "florid" that she almost kills her lie...

Okay, so she just "peeks" and sees him in his office. Jodi's peeks are always snoops and they're scary: she can't do a 5-year-old peek to save her life.

Then, she describes him as "cute". Her lie is drifting away right here, because her vocabulary has rewound to G-rated and she's bereft of Humphrey Bogart descriptions. "Cute" is definitely not in HB's vocabulary or thoughts.

But "cute" sounds just so benign..... And then she gives out a hypothetical "Maybe he greets me" and determines that would be a good track for the next lies and it gives her her HB stage set all over.....

You can just so see her mind working, and how she starts with a seed of a lie, tests it out, and then goes with it full bore.

She makes lies by having an image in her head and then describing the image. [This might be how her "art" works, too.]

These lies have two threads going: the 5-year-old vocabulary one and the Humphrey Bogart one. With the first, she's trying to sound like an innocent child, and in the second like a movie star. Her version of both. But she leans towards the HB thing. I believe we can conclude that neither is for real.


Now, the real question, are we talking Humphrey Bogart, Rhett Butler, or Barbara Cartland?


BTW I don't think Jodi ever read a lot. She gets this stuff from movies....

Great post! You described her lying method to a T. I wish JA could read this so she knows that people see right through her.
 
She testified that while at TA's house on the 4th she realized that she wasn't going to be able to reach Lake Powell before sunset-- the route she said she intended out of AZ on her way to SLC. So she stayed awhile longer to make Travis happy.

Approx. driving time:

Mesa to Lake Powell- 10 hours
Las Vegas to Lake Powell - 10 hours
Lake Powell to SLC- 6 hours


Mesa to SLC via Lake Powell is 677 miles, 10 hours and 49 minutes.
 
I don't think she went to Lake Powell at all, we know she was in Mesquite because of the debit on her bank statement and going to Lake Powell from Mesquite would have added 9 extra hours to her drive up to SLC. Not that she couldn't have, given how much extra time there is between the VM to Travis and her arrival in SLC but I doubt it since I'm not sure the 3 cans of gas would have gotten her to LP and then SLC (617 miles from last gas purchase in Mesquite).


She definitely didn't drive the Lake Powell route. Who knows if she ever intended on doing so, or why she got cutesy in her journal about LP. That's the problem with trying to decipher the meaning or intent or truth of anything that lying liar said or wrote.

The only little glimmer I saw in what she testified to, and it likely means nothing at all, is that she might have been wrapping lies around the kernel of truth that she had intended to kill and leave more quickly, but she was enough behind schedule she figured she might as well take her time and enjoy every last minute of toying with Travis before she killed him.
 
Sorry everybody, I have to throw another monkey wrench to our baffling timeline. Almost don't want to post what I found, but this fact may become handy later...

[video=youtube;LdKpVpc-ank]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKpVpc-ank[/video]
Day 33, retrial, Brown's testimony
Watch from 21:00 to 23:30.

According to Brown, Travis' computer was set on Pacific Standard Time (California time).
And because his computer automatically adjusts to Daylight Savings Time,
The time on computer (ie, 2:44 pm in June) = Arizona time (ie, 2:44 pm in June)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words,
During winter (Nov - Mar) : Mountain Standard Time = AZ time
During summer (Mar - Nov) : Pacific Standard Time = AZ time
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words,
During winter : Travis' computer 1:44 pm = AZ time 2:44 pm.
During Summer: Travis' computer 2:44 pm = AZ time 2:44 pm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the spybot access time was at 2:44 pm, because it was during summer. (if Brown is correct vs Neumeister)



Thanks for accurate info on that important piece of the timeline. :) No monkey wrench there. IMO though, 2:44pm makes the time stamped pics more believable. Whatever came first- as in when she made herself known--if a romp then a pretty short romp. Computer at 2:44, shower at 5:20. Timestamps correct, maybe?
 
If Brown is right, JM is also wrong, as well as Pseudo, as all three (including Neumeister) believe Travis' laptop clock was ahead by an hour. I'm not sure what to think, but I'm still very doubtful that Travis set the time on his camera - we *really* need to see those 90+ pics that were also on it.
 
Wow! Fabulous juxtaposition.

It's clear from this that whatever Jodi says in her journals is fabrication. It doesn't correspond at all to the text records. I would venture to bet she and TA actually had little contact in this general time frame, certainly nothing even obliquely "romantic". Her texts to him are insertions into his other conversations or ways to tangle him up so he can't get on with his life. She's not at his UFC party or the cookie bake. She was evidently in his house without permission while he was out with Mimi and then when he presumably called her on it, she left in a huff with the garage door wide open.



She definitely lied in her journals, he definitely had a full life without her and didn't welcome her into that life, and there was absolutely nothing romantic going on between them. The lies in her journal for March though, IMO, are mostly to herself. I don't think she wrote March's entries post-murder. I'll post the rest of March's timeline with the juxtaposition of texts and her journal if y'all want, but a short summary is this: she was full blast back into magical thinking mode about most everything, in between her longer and longer spells of rage.


And...they were in pretty constant contact because she just would not leave him alone. She did have endless "ways to tangle him up," or as he said to her-ways of ruining his day, every day. She was truly relentless.

She goes out of her way to invent reasons to call him or to go over to his late at night, when she's most likely to be able to seduce him. He didn't text her constantly with that little code of "zzzz means come over " as she claimed, but I think it's pretty clear they did have sex of whatever kind, at least off and on, through the end of March.
 
Regarding how JA seemed to want to make sure everyone knew Travis took her luggage into the house....

a) 'cos gentlemen do that and she was worth the treatment

b) because Travis told her hell no

c) she's trying to suggest that TA facilitated her being there, aka she was "guilted"

d) she has to get the luggage into the house because the backpack has the weapons

e) she just likes this touch because that's what Humphrey Bogart does...

Ironically, Jodi is using "he took my luggage into the house" to convey normalcy, when it was normal for her actually to sneak into the house....


BTW....if she did the murder in that red shirt, as everyone seems to think, the murder can't have been late in the afternoon: by then, she would have worn that shirt for at least 24 hours straight without changing. Not happening for Jodi, folks: she woulda changed three times.

Lol, decent enough reasons I suppose, though why would Nurmi have been a party to them?

As for the red shirt, I can't say I had thought that, whatever happened to red being too noticeable.... or is that only for cars and not femme fatales? The red shirt might explain the koolaid coloured stains in the car however, damp/sweaty/wet brand new red shirt could easily have caused staining. Btw, I noticed she had worn a red shirt during the trial, could it have been the same one(doesn't appear as shiny as when new, but that's a common issue)?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-General-Discussion-4&p=12285701#post12285701
compare to
JAredshirta.jpg

Anyway, I believe that just TA's skin colour could have been enough to cause that reddish hue against the white tile and silver step/whatever it's called, in the shower... though we obviously can't discount the possibility of her red shirt as geevee suggested. I do think it's just as likely she may have worn some of TA's clothes(t-shirt, socks) that had been in the washing machine, perhaps had even used his track pants to help leverage him back into the shower.

Btw, for whoever had asked what TA would have been wearing if he had started the wash himself ... his dark green bathrobe was hanging right beside the shower, on my wash day I often don't bother getting dressed until I'm done my housework and had my shower, is that unusual?
TAbathrobe.jpg

I had previously thought she may have used his sheets to help move him until I confirmed with the trial testimony that all of his bedding had been found already in the dryer whereas the washer contained a towel, sweat pants, shorts, 4 pairs of socks, 3 t-shirts(1 white-L, 1 brownish-M, 1 dark green?-?) 1 pair of white boxer type underwear, the camera, the door to the back of the camera and a blue sim(memory card). From what I could see the towel, at least one pair of the socks and the brownish t-shirt were all fairly badly spotted, likely from bleach. The sweat pants, shorts and greenish t-shirt seemed to still have all/most? of their colour, not sure of the other pairs of socks. [video=youtube;OUFBQD-DP5k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUFBQD-DP5k[/video]
 
I have to question here why ANYONE would need a silencer.
Silencers are illegal in 10 states. CA is one of them. This means that there's no way Jodi Arias's father owned that silencer, as there's no way a man with limited resources and poor health could or would travel to a state where it is legal to purchase a silencer. And for what reason? Protection? How would a silent gun protect him from an intruder?

They are legal in AZ. You know, where JA's parents most likely bailed her out of in April. Imo, she probably hid the silencer, phones, and who knows what else there- which is why her things are in the shed. This also shows more premeditation. Jodi Arias probably planned on killing Travis a lot earlier than May 26th. Jmo.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
 
I have to question here why ANYONE would need a silencer.


They wouldn't. Silencers aren't exactly "silent" anyway. I don't know why anyone would use such a small caliber gun if their intent was to kill someone either. They "could" kill I suppose, but I wouldn't want to get that close to my intended target/victim to find out. JMO
 
She definitely lied in her journals, he definitely had a full life without her and didn't welcome her into that life, and there was absolutely nothing romantic going on between them. The lies in her journal for March though, IMO, are mostly to herself. I don't think she wrote March's entries post-murder. I'll post the rest of March's timeline with the juxtaposition of texts and her journal if y'all want, but a short summary is this: she was full blast back into magical thinking mode about most everything, in between her longer and longer spells of rage.


And...they were in pretty constant contact because she just would not leave him alone. She did have endless "ways to tangle him up," or as he said to her-ways of ruining his day, every day. She was truly relentless.

She goes out of her way to invent reasons to call him or to go over to his late at night, when she's most likely to be able to seduce him. He didn't text her constantly with that little code of "zzzz means come over " as she claimed, but I think it's pretty clear they did have sex of whatever kind, at least off and on, through the end of March.

Yes TA had a full life and was trying to get rid of her... at least according to his friends. As for when he finally had had enough... I think by the time he spoke to JC at the conference at the beginning of April, he was more than done, but he was trying to be a nice guy about it having never experienced someone like her before.
http://www.cbs5az.com/story/21303931/friend-recalls-last-meeting-of-alexander-arias-in-public
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/20/surfers-say-jodi-was-aggressive
 
I saw a pic of Joey and Bill together, and Joey has grown up and is going to college now, no longer lives in Yreka. Bill looks pretty good compared to the last time we saw him, he no longer looks sickly. He even had a smile on his face. I can only imagine the weight that was lifted from his shoulders when she was finally sentenced (I doubt he wanted to lose his child to a life sentence though) :thinking:
 
Mesa to SLC via Lake Powell is 677 miles, 10 hours and 49 minutes.

I don't think that fits in with her ping by Kingman while calling RB and TA's VM, or her gas purchases, let alone the time management that would have involved.

I think it's more likely she spent more time getting to Mesa than she would have us believe and may have taken the extra time cleaning up, stashing the evidence somewhere(to be picked up and destroyed later at her convenience), and yes sleeping/eating, on her way to SLC. She allegedly had to go straight home to Yreka for work and that's why she was late taking back her rental to Redding, though an extra day with the rental would have given her lots of time to burn floor mats, hide weapons, etc. and use up any extra gas.
 
Yeah, and I had forgotten she probably dumped the gun and other evidence on her way back.
So if she brought a silencer then she probably dumped it too. It is possible the father had more than 1 silencer so I am leaving open the possibility that she had a silencer on the gun. But she most likely dumped it with the gun on way home if she had one.
I suppose she could have brought just the silencer back and put it back where it was if it was at her parents house too. That is possible since she may have thought nobody could ever tell a shell was fired through it. Wonder if LE tested the silencer to see if recent gunpowder residue was in it or any markings.

Also someone had highlighted that she put an "!" (exclamation point) after Lake Powell.
I wonder if that is where she dumped the evidence into Lake Powell. If that lake is on the route towards the guy friends house (Ryan?--cant remember his name?) then I would suspect Lake Powell may be where she dumped the gun.

I used to think Hoover Dam but that exclamation point really has me wondering now. She loved to write notes in her journals and that could have been a sign about where evidence is dumped.

If she had ever been to Lake Powell before with someone else then that could be the exact spot if anyone knows exactly where she went in Lake Powell.

Ooooh, now I'm recollecting. ....a) She went with TA to SLC via Lake Powell? and/or b) TA went without her and he went via Lake Powell? The time Gus was texting her all day? and she's seething, seething,seething.......
 
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