Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

[Justiceforever]

I cant see how acting crazy in the way that she did would be a good stratedgy to getting paid I believe she was genuinely afraid. In my opinion she was afraid of her driver because she refused to leave with him. Normally if a client refuses to pay in the first five minutes for the upcoming hour of your time...you should insist on a cacellation fee. If he refuses to pay that then you call the service( in this case she wasnt working for one so she shoulve called her driver to see if he could negotiate a cancelation fee. Remember he drove all the way out there using his gas money and would not be happy to get no money at all. Now if he still refuses well Its to each his own of course but you can only do so much...I would chalk it up to a loss. Sometimes when all goes well the client pays upfront and if at the end of the hour you have dragged it out with alot of seduction and only partial nudity then you can talk him into another hour. Ideally you would collect before the next hour began. (just a thought here did they leave to make a trip to the time machine for more cash?) well for whatever reason they left SG was not afraid of him at that point or she mever wouldve drove away from her safety net with him she coulve just as easily stayed in the car with her driver and waited for him to get back with whatever. So they make this trip come back (maybe doing drugs has Shannon slipping on her game a little and she lets the time get away with her without collecting for the second hour. Maybe she told her driver they were going to the atm and since she stayed the second hour her driver assumes she was paid. She couldve relized...ooops I forgot to get the money up front or just trusted that since she saw the money and she had everything under control thus far that he would pay up. Well maybe he decided to beat her at her own game esp if he thought she was overcharging for her time and then refused to pay? She knows her drivers going to be pissed and who knows maybe even her boyfriend when she comes home with little or no money after being gone so long. Maybe she had her *advertiser censored* whooped in the past and is terrified her driver and or her boyfriend is gonna hurt her again
bad. My thoughts might sound jumbled but I am typong on a small screen wit
h small keys so I apoligize I cant quite get it all out consisely! So n e wayz shes terrified now to face her boyfriend and driver and panics...maybe under the ifkuence combined with mental illness combined with genuine fear from these two men.( was it SG who had a metal plate in her jaw from her boyfriend hittting her?) So she runs away from her driver and gets hopelessly lost in the brambles and it could be a coincidence that there are dead bodies all over the area or maybe not...maybe she had heard stories/ threats of what had happened to other girls who ripped them of and that it would happen to her too if she ever tried. jmo once again I apoligize...I really do write better than this ; )

 

[Justiceforever]

Wow just read your Linatove...you mustve posted while I was struggling to type on my tiny phone lol...pretty close to what I was thinking though : )

 

[Justiceforever]

My last post was in response to Adler and redbird who expressed an interest in my pov...I didnt quote them when replying because of my current handicappp... this dangblasted tiny touch screen on my dangblasted stupid smart phone! N E wayz I was asked so I told what I thought Could have happened based on my experience and as soon as I finished typing...you have no idea how hard it is to write that many words on a cell phone while trying to write it cohesively...forget taking an extra hour revising!...Lo and behold LInative had JUst posted a theory right along the same lines! can I just jokingly say...great minds think alike! seriously though I kinda felt like...well dang...ya ll didnt need me to figure that out lol I couldve saved myself the frustration. my fingers are cramping and my eyes are burning lol I have a laptop but being on the road its hard to always get internet access on it! ; )

 

[Seajay]

Maybe she ran from GC's to the basketball courts and through the clearing along the trail parallel to the parkway. MP follows on foot after parking his truck in the clearing there and then perhaps a confrontation takes place. Ive heard her purse and shoes looked in "perfect" condition after being in the marsh for what would have been a year and a half. Maybe they were put there after the fact. I dunno, just thinking outloud. Not married to anything.

BBM. That's interesting. I had not previously heard about the condition her belongings were in when found. If they didn't have silt and mud embedded in them, then they couldn't have been out there for 1 1/2 years. At the risk of someone getting upset with me, would you provide me a link to this information, I'd like to read it. TIA.

 

[fred&edna]

I have already posted links to the statements in the media by her family, her neighbors and her friends at least three other times. Go back and read the posts. All of the articles are there. Everyone knows that I am always very thorough and go out of my way to post every source. All of the proof is out there with the proper references posted to back it all up.

You have many amazing posts here (including aerial photos, charts, links to additional information) and yes, there's no question as to your thoroughness! I've read/perused many of these, including going back and re-reading AND recently watching (possibly a 3rd time) a video link you provided of SG's family/friends discussing her past (it was reported that she had a troubled childhood, battled depression, didn't take meds, while also being described as bright, warm and funny). Maybe, some day, I will arrive at your conclusion, but right now... I'm still not convinced her death was accidental.

 

[LINative13]

Until I see more concrete evidence, I can not make a decision if she was murdered or not. Hypothermia is a very real possibility (I do not care if it was 80 degrees out....once you are wet hypothermia is a very real possibility) It has been documented of people being adrift at sea in 85 degreee water and catching hypothermia. The morning fog that time of year is enough moisture to make your body start losing heat. All you really need to do is drop your body temp a few degrees. Our body's are 98 degrees. Any air or water temp under 98 degrees to some extenet will leave you with possible exposure to hypothermia depending on time, wind, etc. Being high on drugs is another possibility. What if she did an 8-ball and then went running through the neighborhood and her heart simply shutdown due to drugs and the physical activity. Most stimulants constrict blood vessels while exercise wants them to expand. Being snatched and murdered is also a possibility.

We do not know. And I think it is not very smart for any of us to stick to one side of the argument without being open minded to atleast hearing out another side.

 

[Theforeigner]

BIG TIME DRUG PARANOIA ANNO 1975

Her is a little story from real life, my life:

37 years ago, one of my very good and close friends, and I, went to a big conCert outside Copenhagen.
My friend at the time was 23, I was 20, and some years prior, when she was about 17-19, she had been using heavy drugs on a regular basis, she then more or less stoped. I didn't use drugs, only smoked a little pot 4-5 times a year.
Well at this concert some people offered us some "speed" (amfetamin) , and we accepted.

Noting extrodinary happened, we just had a good time, I thought! and we went home early the next morning, my friend went home with me and we just went to bed sleeping.

When I woke up she was gone, no message or anything, just gone, I tried to call her but could not get hold of her.
Later that night her boyfriend called me.
And guess what?
He told me that my friend had left my apartment as soon as I was a sleep and had gone to the hospital emergency room and asked them to take bloodtests as evidence for the police because she was absolutely sure that her friend (me!!!) through the concert had sliped poisen into her sodabottle with intention to poisen and kill her!!!
I WAS IN TOTALY SHOCK!!! I COUND NOT BELIVE WHAT I HEARD!!!
It took her several days to drop out of her paranoia/psychosis, and it ended with that she was totaly devastated that she ad acted/thought that way.

Of course it was not her fault, it was the "speed" drug that had caused some kind of temporary paranoia/psychosis.
She had never before experienced anything like that and never did herafter.

Prior to this insident she and I had NEVER EVER had a quarrel or anything like that EVER!, she was a sweetes person you could ever meet, and so am I


Just wanted to share this story because I belive it might shed a little bit of light on what can somtimes happen when on drugs.

I am NOT saying that Shannan Gilbert had such a paranoia /psychosis experience that horrible night back in may 2010, but it is a possibility.

I simply can not decide what I think happened to that poor girl.

Thanks for listening.

 

[hawkshaw]

I will take JusticeForever as the one most expert on such matters.

 

[Maddalenasgirl]

I came up with a new theory...what do you think?

SG showed up and got paid by JB for the hour or so she was supposed to be there. They hang for a while; For some reason SG stays longer than she was originally paid for. SG tries to collect an amount from JB for the extra time that JB does not agree with. A disagreement starts. MP is called by SG. JB tries to make her be quiet because he dont wanna draw attention to fact he got a hooker at his beach house. SG freaks. Finally after a little freaking out, SG is finally gotten out of the door. JB stays in house, because the last thing he wants anything to do with is a psychotic hooker running around his quiet beach neighborhood when they all know he is married. Closes his front door because he wants nothing to do with whats going on out front. (lets not sugar caot things please). I have said it before, JB and SG were not trying to split the atom in that house. From there she plits, MP follows. SG goes to GC. Then leaves once MP shows up. From there we are pretty foggy. WHy would MP stop SG and get her in the car going down the other road. Besides if she gets caught he will get in trouble because she will squeal about why and who brought her out there. So MP tries to find a girl he knew for a pretty solid period of time. From what goes on from there...I am confuised. I find it hard to belive MP stopped looking for her after she ran out from GC's boat.

Fire away, what do you guys think?

I think something was done or shown to Shannan that triggered a shocking level of fear to call the police. The last thing she is going to want to do is call LE and get handed an arrest for prostitution so whatever if was had to be bad. I agree with Redbird and believe she may have been shown snuff or someone grabbed her hard around the neck. Not sure what it was but it seems that something happened in there that is not being told. In my opinion, Shannan was a fighter and survivor and would have not gone down without a fight- drugs or no drugs. Why was she missing an earring? Does Gus remember how many earrings she had on when she showed up at this door? If he remembered her wearing two, how did her earring end up back near Brewer's house? Wonder if LE asked Gus this question?

 

[Justiceforever]

I will take JusticeForever as the one most expert on such matters.

Unfortunately sometimes even the experts are wrong! I had another thought..If there was a dfifter there this shouldve been a big money call for her as he wouldve had to pay too! The way I see it and the way her driver and boyfriend wouldve saw it...@$200.00 an hour per person. IMO I really believe that she was afraid of her boyfriend and/or driver who wouldve been extremely pissed at her for spending all that time with two clients and not having the amount of money they felt they deserved. I really dont think gb is a killer. I think that section of LI has been a "pimps dump" for a very long time used by many different ones. Reminds me of a popular threat used by some of these abusive lowlifes" "B*tch I will leave your *advertiser censored* stankin ( stinking) in a ditch!" Which is exactily what happenened to these girls

 

[Justiceforever]

Unfortunately sometimes even the experts are wrong! I had another thought..If there was a dfifter there this shouldve been a big money call for her as he wouldve had to pay too! The way I see it and the way her driver and boyfriend wouldve saw it...@$200.00 an hour per person. IMO I really believe that she was afraid of her boyfriend and/or driver who wouldve been extremely pissed at her for spending all that time with two clients and not having the amount of money they felt they deserved. I really dont think gb is a killer. I think that section of LI has been a "pimps dump" for a very long time used by many different ones. Reminds me of a popular threat used by some of these abusive lowlifes" "B*tch I will leave your *advertiser censored* stankin ( stinking) in a ditch!" Which is exactily what happenened to these girls

Having said that...I Dpnt necessarily believe that ALL the dead people out there were dumped by pimps...O have a different theory about Some. Its hard to keep track of them all which is crazzy!

 

[fieldnotes]

BBM. That's interesting. I had not previously heard about the condition her belongings were in when found. If they didn't have silt and mud embedded in them, then they couldn't have been out there for 1 1/2 years. At the risk of someone getting upset with me, would you provide me a link to this information, I'd like to read it. TIA.

No worries. The condition of Shannan's belonging were discussed by several posters on this WS page

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162330&page=50

and was part of an argument about who was privy to secret outside information and who wasn't which I do not wish to see repeated. But lets just say Ive heard these rumors enough to personally believe them. But that's just me so take it for what it's worth to you.

 

[Adler]

Unfortunately sometimes even the experts are wrong! I had another thought..If there was a dfifter there this shouldve been a big money call for her as he wouldve had to pay too! The way I see it and the way her driver and boyfriend wouldve saw it...@$200.00 an hour per person. IMO I really believe that she was afraid of her boyfriend and/or driver who wouldve been extremely pissed at her for spending all that time with two clients and not having the amount of money they felt they deserved. I really dont think gb is a killer. I think that section of LI has been a "pimps dump" for a very long time used by many different ones. Reminds me of a popular threat used by some of these abusive lowlifes" "B*tch I will leave your *advertiser censored* stankin ( stinking) in a ditch!" Which is exactily what happenened to these girls

So, if in the final hours under Brewer's roof the mood shifts from business to overt hostility, real intentions; and somebody makes a threat about leaving SG's "*advertiser censored* stankin in a ditch!" with a bit of physical evidence to show he or they truly mean it, she would very well run for her life! Makes sense.

I don't think we are really ever going to know for sure about any of this unless some other evidence is presented. Time to wait and see. It would be nice if any of the players would consent to an interview.

 

[Justiceforever]

Was SG the one with the plate in her jaw or was it ALC? There are so many players and victims and threads to read I get hopelessly lost sometimes. It crazy making!

 

[Adler]

I think something was done or shown to Shannan that triggered a shocking level of fear to call the police. The last thing she is going to want to do is call LE and get handed an arrest for prostitution so whatever if was had to be bad. I agree with Redbird and believe she may have been shown snuff or someone grabbed her hard around the neck. Not sure what it was but it seems that something happened in there that is not being told. In my opinion, Shannan was a fighter and survivor and would have not gone down without a fight- drugs or no drugs. Why was she missing an earring? Does Gus remember how many earrings she had on when she showed up at this door? If he remembered her wearing two, how did her earring end up back near Brewer's house? Wonder if LE asked Gus this question?

Snuff is a myth for the most part, but she may have been shown something that triggered the need to run. Her earring went missing when she fell down Brewer's front steps on her way out, I think. Her jacket, too, was found there as well. I think it was found in front of Brewer's place, although Gus C recalls Shannan having the jacket slung over her shoulder. Lots of questions about the jacket.

As far as the condition of items found in the marsh: I say an OB resident recreate by placing comparable items in the march starting with May 1 of some year, wait 18 months, retrieve, compare with the actual items to see if it comes to similar states of pristineness as original set. Piece of cake. Somebody ought to do it.

 

[Adler]

Was SG the one with the plate in her jaw or was it ALC? There are so many players and victims and threads to read I get hopelessly lost sometimes. It crazy making!

Yes, SG has a plate in her jaw.

 

[PreciousDust]

So, if in the final hours under Brewer's roof the mood shifts from business to overt hostility...

During which part did they sit around playing cards, the business part or the overtly hostile part?

 

[Adler]

I would really be interested in hearing what you think happened to Shannan in that house to scare her so much into calling 911.

I really do not know. Quite a few different scenarios can all seem to make sense and there is simply not enough information from surviving members, such as Pak, Brewer, the drug dealer, et al.

I do not think Shannan ran through the marsh, though. I think she was placed there.

 

[Adler]

During which part did they sit around playing cards, the business part or the overtly hostile part?

Did they play cards? Who knows? If a moment came when Brewer and his guest reveal their intentions to not pay SG, that, to me suggests an overtly hostile environment--the beginning of a true conflict, a time where threats would plausibly emerge and escalate to a bad, bad situation whereby SG is bolting out the door with 911 on the line, and running for her life.

 

[PreciousDust]

Did they play cards? Who knows?

Not me, though I've read both that there was a trip to the store for "lube and cards", and also that they did play cards. Doesn't much matter, to me, if either thing is true, as it would all fall within the Vast Unknown that comprises those hours that SG supposedly was in JB's house. And none of it makes sense to me, because:
1) A hooker who goes to a client's home expects to provide some sort of sexual act for a fee. They don't dilly-dally about determining what the client wants, naming a fee for it, and collecting that fee before any of the action starts. If even a half hour goes by and there's no money produced, a hooker leaves, and mad as hell.
2) A client who receives a hooker into his home expects some sort of sexual act. If the john determines they don't want sex from the provider who has shown up at their door, they negotiate for that provider to leave, and in a short period of time. No john will pay a hooker's hourly rate for the privilege of watching the hooker have a fit, or to play cards with the hooker, or for anything else that doesn't include the reason for which he asked her there in the first place. It wouldn't take JB two hours to ask MP to take SG home, if that's what he wanted.

Was JB paying SG to wait for someone else to show up, so that the party could start? I don't know, though that would at least make 1) and 2) above have some sort of explanation. Again, though, all Vast Unknown.