Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

[Maddalenasgirl]

Because a swamp is full of decomposing things. There is nothing unique about a decomposing human.

Did you know that the ancient druids use to sacrifice humans and offer them to the bogs/swamps?

 

[Maddalenasgirl]

Um, she did not have the jacket by the time she got to the marsh. The jacket was found either in front of Brewer's place or on Anchor Way--conflicting reports about the jacket and only LE knows where they found the jacket. (Coletti recalls seeing the jacket slung over SG's shoulders, but if the jacket was found in front of Brewer's driveway, this does not make sense.) In my lowly opinion, LE now has the jacket. Processed it. And they know where it was indeed found.

Read up on paradoxical undressing, hypothermia, preterminal burrowing, and terminal burrowing. A lot of PB's theory fits, a lot doesn't. Did SG drown in six-inch puddles as Dormer suggested? Probably not. Did her skinny jeans fly off of her as she raced through the marsh? Unlikely. In the interim, all we can do is entertain all theories and hope LE provides us with some of the evidence they are (probably) sitting on, such as the 911 call, etc.

Supposedly Coletti sees Shannan with the jacket but then it ends up near Brewer's house and she ends up in the marsh? Do you think they caught up with her and brought her back to Brewers and.............?

 

[Seajay]

Frustrated family seeks Gilbert's remains

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...ily-seeks-shannan-gilbert-s-remains-1.3858411

Why would the ME not release a body that had an inconclusive cause of death but one that was ruled an "accident?" And why would they not issue a death certificate??? They are treating this like a murder IMO/MOO. They don't hold remains like this of accidental deaths. Or ones whose deaths are inconclusive.

And why haven't they done the other tests on the remains that her mother requested??

This sure seems fishy to me. MOO

 

[Adler]

Did you know that the ancient druids use to sacrifice humans and offer them to the bogs/swamps?

Druids. Hmm. Let's think about that for a second. Hmm. I've got text on Chaldonian Magik, here, does that count? but Druids is closer to the heart and too personal for this thread.

Don't cut the sound if you like Eminem:

http://www.directlyrics.com/eminem-not-afraid-lyrics.html

The "addiction" therein has less to to with SG and her lifestyle and drugs per se and more to do with all of us here and why we return. "Jumping Jacks" could be SCPD, or any LE, or any of us--not SG--she's free (i wanna make that clear on this sidenote on Druids). If you don't get it, enjoy the tune anyway. File it away for your next cold case life, I don't care. I really don't.

On the tune from a question about Druids: it's passionate, powerful and positive. The energy right for the dichotomy that so many of us hate between the idea of a girl so full of life and WILL to live and PB's presumption that she would pre-terminally give up, and want to die. It does not add up.

Next: more logic, science, facts. Sorry for the regress. I break.

 

[Adler]

Supposedly Coletti sees Shannan with the jacket but then it ends up near Brewer's house and she ends up in the marsh? Do you think they caught up with her and brought her back to Brewers and.............?

No.

They did not bring her back to Brewer's.


She either lost the jacket at Brewer's and Coletti did not see it slung over her shoulder;

or,

she had the jacket at Coletti's and lost it thereafter.

Either way, let's go to the source as LE knows. Why not ask them? Hey, LE, where did you find the jacket?

frickin' Jumpin' Jacks!

 

[Adler]

Why would the ME not release a body that had an inconclusive cause of death but one that was ruled an "accident?" And why would they not issue a death certificate??? They are treating this like a murder IMO/MOO. They don't hold remains like this of accidental deaths. Or ones whose deaths are inconclusive.

And why haven't they done the other tests on the remains that her mother requested??

This sure seems fishy to me. MOO

Can we get some Jumpin' Jacks from SCPD to answer to this as there are some SCPD members on the thread? Or, do we have to go to outside sources to light the fire under the asses of those who heretofore have not answered these and other obvious questions in an honest, moral, and forthcoming manner?

The media, btw, will prove unrelenting to you.

 

[truthspider]

The machine that makes those ditches leaves a trench 24" wide, that after a short time, as weeds grow along it's edges, becomes barely a hint of a line in these pics. The two dark north and south, and the one dark east/ west trenches are much wider(use the 4'x8' plywood laying there for scale)and the weeds that grow over and hide the edges are gone/ covered with fresh mud vs. the undisturbed areas of the ditches just east and west. Someone dug through those spots.

Thanks mcme, I agree that if you compare aerial images over time you can tell the ditches were scraped or widened in some areas. I know why SCPD did this, I was really just trying to provoke the group to analyze the facts, analyze what the actual investigators did during their "search". The SCPD were informed by a neighbor very early on to search the vector control ditches behind the doctors house. After a long delay the SCPD finally performed that search and turned up SG's possessions, and then her remains.

I wish instead of arguing whether SG was murdered or died of other causes the great sleuth's of this forum could decipher fact from SCPD fiction and debate why the SCPD waited so long to search the location that the neighbor said to search. Was it part of a strategy on LE's part to try and scare the perp out of his hiding and get him to try and remove evidence from the area? Did they not believe the explicit information they were receiving? Or were they just not actively working on the case so they didn't bother?

The reality is that the SCPD are investigating a homicide that they believe may be linked to the biggest Serial Murder investigation in LI history. Is everyone here just to chase and chew on their own tail or are you here to analyze and research a SK case/investigation?

Web sleuths are meta-detectives, we aren't acting as detectives in reality, on the ground, pounding the pavement, knocking on doors and talking to neighbors/real people involved. Web sleuths are investigating the information released about the actual investigation. That being said, just because we (most of us anyway) are meta-detectives doesn't mean we can't investigate and analyze the real case, what is occurring in reality, not just what reporters/LE tell you or what other sleuths are saying about the case. This case is complex, it has many layers that need to be peeled away, unfortunately many here are preoccupied with chewing on the plastic dog biscuits thrown out by LE and other posters. Instead of chewing on fake bones and chasing our own tails we need to try and analyze reality, what actually happened, not what people are saying happened because the truth isn't going to come out of someones mouth and present itself, it will have to be unearthed by studying the actions of the party's involved.

Observe the actions of all party's, the details that we can see are true, the facts of the case, and debate these events we know to be true and progress will be made.

 

[Just K]

Please link any source that states the jacket was found near Brewer's house.

There are links that say that the earring was found, by a Gilbert sister, near JB's steps or sidewalk (adjacent to his door) BUT all written reports (cited at WS's) have put the jacket as being found, "presumably" by LE, on one of the other streets. No media or LE source has stated that the jacket was found on The Fairway. However, it was reported that supposedly after being taken as evidence...the jacket was lost.

So, even if it is ever recovered...chain of evidence will be a problem re: the jacket being introduced as evidence in any future trial. For that matter, losing such a huge piece of the puzzle will cast doubt on the discussion of any of the early searches.

ETA: After two hours searching, I can find NO ORIGNAL NEWS REPORT re: LE finfing Shannan's jacket and then the jacket being lost or misplaced. Every reference to the jacket is no someone's opinion or hearsay as to where it was found and when....UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[woodstick]

Thanks mcme, I agree that if you compare aerial images over time you can tell the ditches were scraped or widened in some areas. I know why SCPD did this, I was really just trying to provoke the group to analyze the facts, analyze what the actual investigators did during their "search". The SCPD were informed by a neighbor very early on to search the vector control ditches behind the doctors house. After a long delay the SCPD finally performed that search and turned up SG's possessions, and then her remains.

I wish instead of arguing whether SG was murdered or died of other causes the great sleuth's of this forum could decipher fact from SCPD fiction and debate why the SCPD waited so long to search the location that the neighbor said to search. Was it part of a strategy on LE's part to try and scare the perp out of his hiding and get him to try and remove evidence from the area? Did they not believe the explicit information they were receiving? Or were they just not actively working on the case so they didn't bother?

The reality is that the SCPD are investigating a homicide that they believe may be linked to the biggest Serial Murder investigation in LI history. Is everyone here just to chase and chew on their own tail or are you here to analyze and research a SK case/investigation?

Web sleuths are meta-detectives, we aren't acting as detectives in reality, on the ground, pounding the pavement, knocking on doors and talking to neighbors/real people involved. Web sleuths are investigating the information released about the actual investigation. That being said, just because we (most of us anyway) are meta-detectives doesn't mean we can't investigate and analyze the real case, what is occurring in reality, not just what reporters/LE tell you or what other sleuths are saying about the case. This case is complex, it has many layers that need to be peeled away, unfortunately many here are preoccupied with chewing on the plastic dog biscuits thrown out by LE and other posters. Instead of chewing on fake bones and chasing our own tails we need to try and analyze reality, what actually happened, not what people are saying happened because the truth isn't going to come out of someones mouth and present itself, it will have to be unearthed by studying the actions of the party's involved.

Observe the actions of all party's, the details that we can see are true, the facts of the case, and debate these events we know to be true and progress will be made.

As a matter of fact we are the analysers of secondary sources of case's information. We do not have an access to ACTUAL REAL LIFE police reports, coroners notes, crime scene's photos etc. We even couldn't analyse "she said/he said" matter since we didn't have any rights to interview the REAL people. All our conclusions are based on tonalities of reporters, their and our personal preferences and sympathies of all parties involved.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Yeah, I do. I see what you mean. Still, one can do some coo' coo' lampin' with a toy like that. Amazing!

PB, I am still reading up on paradoxical undressing, terminal burrowing, environs, hypothermia, etc. There is so much online it's both daunting and wonderful. Do you have any research that touches upon the length of time one moves from one mode of an indisputable indomitable and vociferous desire to survive to one of presumed terminal burrowing and a willingness to die? What we do know is that SG wanted to survive. It's on record. How long between these two states? (if i find something, i will post, too; just thought you had something on this already. if so, thnx in advance.)

I google them also:
All about paradoxical undressing
So I would be also forced to read till I find which one was the right article. However, since in this case drugs are involved, as well as bipolar disorder with out taking meds, even without hypothermia and it's consequences, the change of the state of mind can occur in minutes. With the hypothermia and in this combination with drugs and mental precondition, I wouldn't dare to estimate and longer guaranteed stable mindset for more than two minutes.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Why would the ME not release a body that had an inconclusive cause of death but one that was ruled an "accident?" And why would they not issue a death certificate??? They are treating this like a murder IMO/MOO. They don't hold remains like this of accidental deaths. Or ones whose deaths are inconclusive.

And why haven't they done the other tests on the remains that her mother requested??

This sure seems fishy to me. MOO

They can't release the remains. Or at least they think so. Hundreds of people run around and tell, they cover something up and it's murder, all murder, all foul play, and the aliens and the druids did it and JB is an aline and a maybe also he is a druid and similar nonsense. But sometimes the media give them attention and thus, SCPD thinks, they have to hold on to the body because after SG is buried, they can't prove anymore, they didn't do anything wrong. It's partially a question of the mindset in the SCPD was well. My bet is they feel in this case a little under siege.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Druids. Hmm. Let's think about that for a second. Hmm. I've got text on Chaldonian Magik, here, does that count? but Druids is closer to the heart and too personal for this thread.

Don't cut the sound if you like Eminem:

http://www.directlyrics.com/eminem-not-afraid-lyrics.html

The "addiction" therein has less to to with SG and her lifestyle and drugs per se and more to do with all of us here and why we return. "Jumping Jacks" could be SCPD, or any LE, or any of us--not SG--she's free (i wanna make that clear on this sidenote on Druids). If you don't get it, enjoy the tune anyway. File it away for your next cold case life, I don't care. I really don't.

On the tune from a question about Druids: it's passionate, powerful and positive. The energy right for the dichotomy that so many of us hate between the idea of a girl so full of life and WILL to live and PB's presumption that she would pre-terminally give up, and want to die. It does not add up.

Next: more logic, science, facts. Sorry for the regress. I break.

You go personally here. But fine. First thing, I wasn't even the first to assume paradoxical undressing. But to me it made sense so I read up, compared with own experiences and draw my conclusion. The only reason you resent me is in fact, I don't agree with your theory. And that tells more about you than about me.
And I don't hate the idea of any girl full of life and will to live ... I only doubt, your idea fully applies to someone, who has a history of self-destructive behavior in the form of drugs and untreated mental problems.
According to the TOS, I can't discuss magic, druids and psychics here. So take my apologize, but I will not follow you in that rabbit hole.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Can we get some Jumpin' Jacks from SCPD to answer to this as there are some SCPD members on the thread? Or, do we have to go to outside sources to light the fire under the asses of those who heretofore have not answered these and other obvious questions in an honest, moral, and forthcoming manner?

The media, btw, will prove unrelenting to you.

What makes you think, we have SCPD here? If, then only as guests reading in. Hawkshaw told, he is retired since 20 years, so, that is the nearest one of all members here, as far as I can see.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Thanks mcme, I agree that if you compare aerial images over time you can tell the ditches were scraped or widened in some areas. I know why SCPD did this, I was really just trying to provoke the group to analyze the facts, analyze what the actual investigators did during their "search". The SCPD were informed by a neighbor very early on to search the vector control ditches behind the doctors house. After a long delay the SCPD finally performed that search and turned up SG's possessions, and then her remains.

I wish instead of arguing whether SG was murdered or died of other causes the great sleuth's of this forum could decipher fact from SCPD fiction and debate why the SCPD waited so long to search the location that the neighbor said to search. Was it part of a strategy on LE's part to try and scare the perp out of his hiding and get him to try and remove evidence from the area? Did they not believe the explicit information they were receiving? Or were they just not actively working on the case so they didn't bother?

The reality is that the SCPD are investigating a homicide that they believe may be linked to the biggest Serial Murder investigation in LI history. Is everyone here just to chase and chew on their own tail or are you here to analyze and research a SK case/investigation?

Web sleuths are meta-detectives, we aren't acting as detectives in reality, on the ground, pounding the pavement, knocking on doors and talking to neighbors/real people involved. Web sleuths are investigating the information released about the actual investigation. That being said, just because we (most of us anyway) are meta-detectives doesn't mean we can't investigate and analyze the real case, what is occurring in reality, not just what reporters/LE tell you or what other sleuths are saying about the case. This case is complex, it has many layers that need to be peeled away, unfortunately many here are preoccupied with chewing on the plastic dog biscuits thrown out by LE and other posters. Instead of chewing on fake bones and chasing our own tails we need to try and analyze reality, what actually happened, not what people are saying happened because the truth isn't going to come out of someones mouth and present itself, it will have to be unearthed by studying the actions of the party's involved.

Observe the actions of all party's, the details that we can see are true, the facts of the case, and debate these events we know to be true and progress will be made.

You still work under the impression, that SCPD is cunning and able and therefore all they do in strange, delayed, strange & delayed, and illogical acts has to be the result of some cunning strategy. I think, you base assumption in this equation is wrong. They are in way over their head and try to cover their rears but otherwise not to cause any actions, that unleashes the media again on them.

 

[fred&edna]

They can't release the remains. Or at least they think so. Hundreds of people run around and tell, they cover something up and it's murder, all murder, all foul play, and the aliens and the druids did it and JB is an aline and a maybe also he is a druid and similar nonsense. But sometimes the media give them attention and thus, SCPD thinks, they have to hold on to the body because after SG is buried, they can't prove anymore, they didn't do anything wrong. It's partially a question of the mindset in the SCPD was well. My bet is they feel in this case a little under siege.

We can all post our speculations on how they "feel", but that's no more accurate, relevant or helpful than discussing the druids and aliens, but obviously it's still done. The legal reason they gave the family for keeping the body would be beneficial.

 

[hawkshaw]

We can all post our speculations on how they "feel", but that's no more accurate, relevant or helpful than discussing the druids and aliens, but obviously it's still done. The legal reason they gave the family for keeping the body would be beneficial.

If you read today's newsday: www.newsday.com/ you will read where the SCPD said they have nothing to do with keeping the body. SCPD said look to the M.E. for the answer. The M.E. doesn't reply.

Has the family attempted to hire their own pathologist to do another look at the body? I am sure there is someone out there that is willing to pay for it. All the family has to do is to ask and the money will go flowing in.

 

[BKS]

We can all post our speculations on how they "feel", but that's no more accurate, relevant or helpful than discussing the druids and aliens, but obviously it's still done. The legal reason they gave the family for keeping the body would be beneficial.

Hopefully they are getting another opinion on cause of death, verifying testing, calling in experts etc. LE should designate someone to be an advocate for the family. This is a very high profile case and it would serve them well to be empathetic to the needs of the family. IMHO

 

[Justiceforever]

What makes you think, we have SCPD here? If, then only as guests reading in. Hawkshaw told, he is retired since 20 years, so, that is the nearest one of all members here, as far as I can see.

I agree...for LE to spend any time at WS would for them be admitting that they coundnt solve the case without consulting a bunch of armchair dectectives...which face it thats how they think of u!

 

[Justiceforever]

I agree...for LE to spend any time at WS would for them be admitting that they coundnt solve the case without consulting a bunch of armchair dectectives...which face it thats how they think of u!

Omg I meant to say us...dumb phone...us...thats how they thi.k of us! ; )

 

[Justiceforever]

I agree...for LE to spend any time at WS would for them be admitting that they coundnt solve the case without consulting a bunch of armchair dectectives...which face it thats how they think of u!

Omg I meant to say us...dumb phone...us...thats how they thi.k of us! ; )

I know that sounded cynical and I wasnt trying to diminish all the hard work here by people who truely care It was just how I imagine LE thinks of sleuths...jmho!