Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call

[cherrymeg]

A 23 minute phone call with 911 seems like it could be serious. She is running from people or a person or something. Looking for Shannan ends up leading LE to a mass burial ground. She seems to have a reason to be afraid. One thing that bothers me is that residents on that stretch of beach don't seem freaked out like you would expect. If it's a gated community and we pretend the killer isn't living there it still means there is a killer out there comfortable with the area. If I had a daughter I would be scared . MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Cherrymeg, Good points. The local residents did not appear to get too excited about Shannan's demise, or the discovery of the other bodies.
One could speculate
a) Local residents were aware of what was happening previously and learned to live with it.
b) Local residents knew what was going on, but were afraid of being too vocal, so as to provoke the perpetrator(s) to seek retribution on the activists.
c) Local residents believed local authorities were corrupt and/or colluding with the perpetrator(s) and any protest was meaningless.
d) all of the above.

All these scenarios sound familiar to a neighborhood that is controlled by organised crime in many urban communities. Until the grass roots start exerting political pressure, not much will change.

 

[hawkshaw]

When I was in NYPD we had a triple homicide in the 112 PCT on Yellowstone Blvd. Three Panamanian drug dealers were neatly stacked on top of each other in a common driveway/backyard. Heavens to Betsy. Those sort of things don't happen in this sort of neighborhood. BUT as soon as the shock wore off.....and that was as soon as the folks realized it had nothing to do with them or the neighborhood it was like it never happened.

These guys were killed in Brooklyn. Loaded on a van and driven to a place to dump. The killer (s) just drove around to look for a suitable place to dump the bodies and that was that.

These people in OAK BEACH know what this is all about and they are no different than the people on Yellowstone Blvd.

We 'solved' the case on paper with creative writing with 3 murders in the cleared file. Nobody went to jail or was even arrested. But we solved it !

 

[GrayShadow]

I can sum up both of your post replies with one word: Brilliant

Thanks, Hawk. I seriously doubt we have met as I have no personal ties to New York and the few business ties were in a profession entirely outside LE and prosecution.

 

[GrayShadow]

We 'solved' the case on paper with creative writing with 3 murders in the cleared file. Nobody went to jail or was even arrested. But we solved it !

Happens under all departments, for sure.

 

[Fabra]

Let's send out plenty of positive vibes and prayers that John Ray has a good day in court tomorrow and will succeed in getting the Shannan Gilbert 911 tapes made public.
That would be HUGE.

 

[Blueeyedbrowngirl]

Judge denies public release of 911 tapes tied to Shannan Gilbert death

 

[GrayShadow]

Justice Sanford Berland’s decision this afternoon should not be a surprise. It is unfortunate in some regards but so very much communication and information exchange takes place ‘behind closed doors’ and outside public access, it is hard to tell what LE and JR have expressed to the Justice in Chambers. This process and its necessary secrecy (at least temporarily, pending other/additional litigation) cuts both ways. Both sides have equal interest in the integrity of justice and both sides have their ‘charge’ and pursue every means possible thereof.

The FOIA is very important and his its due place to insure government entities at all levels. But FIOA should never interfere or impede an ongoing investigation. This is not to say I feel that a “good” or even “active” investigation is (still?) taking place. I recognize the overwhelming temperature here that LE “doesn’t care”, “is protecting”, and/or is “afraid of how the truth would impact politics, Suffolk County administration and its LE”.

There are very few politically correct, or polite and courteous ways to accurately weigh in on the early handling of the SG disappearance and all that blossomed thereafter. As I have stated here previously, I consider the original investigation(s) as fiascos regardless of incompetence or intent. It was previous LE and prosecutorial leadership that administered to and guided those original/initial ‘investigations.’ That said, it is too easy to blame those persons who have followed in their footsteps for the earlier malfeasance.

Fault me if you wish, but I see the situation somewhat analogous to someone (the victims) having homes built for them. The builder (2010 and earlier LE and prosecution) gets into trouble (LE and prosecution indictments and sentences) and is replaced by a new builder (post 2011 LE and prosecution). But the new builder is still obligated to use the same contractor(s). While the new builder acknowledges that previous builds (investigations) were done improperly and desire to provide well-built homes (investigations), contractors and the previous builder are cautious and afraid that their management and builds (investigations) will disclose less than savory actions that may also be most illegal. The new builder (current LE and prosecution) is suffocating from ways to do the quality builds (investigations) due to previous and still embedded protectionism.

Those homes (investigations) that were started years ago, the original foundations, framing, plumbing, gas and electrical may never be completed because the inferior work originally done is now irreparable and irrecoverable. That does not mean that the current builder is not trying to effect correction and resolution. It remains a difficult situation that the current builder has [in my view] not yet given up or given in.

I think Justice Sanford Berland’s instruction for JR “to file a written request, under seal, for permission to share the calls with specific individuals that the judge will consider” is very encouraging. Justice Berland certainly would not permit sharing with the general media and it is not likely that JR would share anything with rank-and-file LE. But this might allow sharing (to whatever degree the Justice decides) with family(ies) members. A step in the right direction.

My take on the decision? Mixed. Not good, not bad. But I think it is a tiny step forward.


I have other postings in progress.

 

[WINDSOR]

Gray, I am trying to think of what could be on the tapes, that after 10 years would impede the Police investigation. the only person on the phone beside LE people was Shannan. The only things Shannan could have disclosed was why she felt her life was in danger and details about the inside of Brewer's house. It is not likely she even knew the names of the individuals in Brewer's house. I cannot fathom what information would be on the tape, if publicaly known, would impede a investigation.

I am not even sure the SCPD even believes SG death was a homicide. If that is the case, what crime(s) are they investigating? Does the SCPD believe what happened in Oack Beach that night is related to some other crimes? It would be nice to know what the SCPD is investigating.

 

[hawkshaw]

How about other voices questioning her what she saw and heard? How about her trying to convince she saw NOTHING and wouldn’t say Nothing? Then she is dead.

 

[GrayShadow]

Windsor -- Suppose for a moment that SG (1) was actually able to provide more precise location information but it was mishandled (beyond the transfer of the call to NY State Police); (2) provided additional information as to why she feared for her life; (3) was able to provide names or provide descriptions; or what if (4) when SG was on 911 while still at JB’s and the background voices were not just JB and MP as has been reported and (5) those voices were identifiable and in contradiction to what JB and MP gave in following investigative discussion; (6) as SG went door to door while still connected to 911 that the homeowners’ voices were also recorded and later testimony found contradiction; or, OMG, even worse (7) the tapes reveal SG encounters someone while running who identifies themselves as LE; what if that voice is identifiable?

If releasing the 911 tapes were to simply reveal a terribly mishandled call that would be an embarrassment to the County, current LE and prosecution would jump to release them with great fanfare if only to be able to say “that was then, this is now” and “that happened under the old guard and we are here now fixing things.”

There is very likely something tangible on those tapes that indicates a culpability and LE has not yet compiled enough evidence to secure a conviction. And if that intended conviction is for a government official? There need be a lot of credible, solid, untainted evidence. Things need be done by the book.

“SG death was a homicide?” My personal opinion? ABSOLUTELY. But much is clouded in the original (non)investigation effort and (non)disclosure. More later.

 

[GrayShadow]

GROUPINGS

Between December 2010 and December 2011, eleven sets of remains (or partial remains) were discovered on Jones Island. The last remains were those of SG. These remains can be initially grouped into five separate fragments based on (dis)similarities for initial investigation.

A. Baby Doe because she is the only child;
B. Asian male because it is the only set of male remains;
C. ALC, MB, MBB and MW because their remains were all (reported) to have been wrapped in burlap;
D. Four sets of partial remains, and;
E. SG because she almost got away.

FRAGMENT A: Initially, Baby Doe could have simply been an abandoned child. Later DNA testing proved that Baby Doe was the child of one of the partial remains on Jones Island. It is not a stretch to assume baby Doe was with “mom” at the time of her demise. It is logical to add Baby Doe to FRAGMENT D (with her mother).

FRAGMENT B: The only male remains. Dressed in women’s clothes. Might have been advertising as an escort. Might have just been picked up ‘at the bar’. Might have been killed after true sex was discovered. Variously reported as “teeth removed” or “poor dental health”. To date, no DNA identification. Not enough detail available to the public to work with.

FRAGMENT C: The easiest. All four remains were reported “wrapped in burlap” placed within 1500 feet of each other. There were no reports that these victims were dismembered or that they were partial remain. All four disappeared within two years of each other. All Craigslist/Backpage escorts. Various revelations of “leave your cellphone behind”, “client is trustworthy”, “high paying client” and “don’t want/need a driver either way.” These were ‘newer’ and ‘intact’ victims. High likelihood they are victims of the same perpetrator(s).

FRAGMENT D: These four sets of remains began as unknowns. All four were dismembered with only partial remains on Jones Beach. Two were linked to partial remains previously found in Manorville and ultimately identified as VM and JT. Another matched partial to remains found on Blue Point Beach and referred to as Fire Island Jane Doe. The last set were matched to remains found previously in Rockville Center and known to be ‘Peaches’. It is further determined Peaches was the mother of Baby Doe. The first remains of these four victims were found in 1996 (two victims), 1997 and 2003. The Jones Beach remains had been in place for as long as 14 years prior to discovery. These are ‘older’ crimes.

FRAGMENT E: This piece is unique because it was relatively fresh and afforded a lot of investigatory promise because of witnesses, testimony, 911 tapes, dispatch tapes/logs, phone records, security video. For all intent and purpose, this case had a wealth of evidence not available to LE regarding the other ‘older’ victims recently discovered.

Some, or all, or none of these fragments (B through D) may or may not be related.

 

[GrayShadow]

WHAT IF?

What if SG was an accident? Not saying that her “death” was an accident, but the “location” was an accident? If this incident had occurred somewhere else (say Nassau County or just about anywhere else in Suffolk County), how would it have been investigated? A fearful woman banging on doors, screaming “they’re trying to kill me”. It quite likely would have been investigated accordingly and come to resolution long ago. But that did not happen with SG. I believe the SG investigation, such as it was, was hampered from the very beginning due to two factors.

First, LE knew early on it was dealing with an escort. JB was candid with LE about his ‘involvement’ with her that immediate morning. Unfortunately, LE was not particularly interested in a missing escort, especially hearing from GC of the Asian man in the SUV looking for her as well. “He was probably her pimp, picked her up and they are long gone now. There’s nothing left to investigate.” Or so they thought May 1. Even on May 3 when MP and JB went to Suffolk LE, there was understandably, still little interest. She was an adult, she was an escort, so she is probably just doing what she does.

Consider, LE received multiple 911 calls from OB residents at roughly 5:30am on May 1 reporting a frantic woman. Then on May 3, JB (SG’s client) AD (SG’s ‘roommate’) go to LE and state SG is still missing. That conversation likely included AD indicating SG’s driver (MP) left the area without her. That would logically rule out the supposed ‘pimp driver’ having helped her leave the area.

Second, the incident involving an already known to be escort happened in Suffolk County on Jones Beach Island. As the ‘missing escort on Jones Beach Island’ began to circulate in SCPD, I believe panic began to rise among certain LE. A full and legitimate investigation extending beyond Oak Beach might be particularly damaging.

 

[WINDSOR]

GRAY Shadow, excellent summaries. Thanks

 

[Fabra]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=356461918922292

Ray gave this presser in October. In it, he raises some key points that have not been adequately addressed by SCPD:

* SCPD claims that SG died by accidental drowning; therefore, how is this an "active investigation" if her cause of death has been ruled out as homicide?
*Ray has compiled "enormous amounts of evidence," including over 17 binders of witness transcripts from Oak Beach, 7 or 8 of SG's cell phones, one of which was in her possession at the time of her death, and a laptop. Ray has offered the evidence to SCPD, but they have never come to pick it up.
*Hart herself said the best source of information is the public, but yet the public has been shut out of hearing the tapes and has not been actively or sincerely engaged as a viable source of leads in this "investigation"

So yes, the temperature of the public is reaching critical mass with all of the logical contradictions that insult our collective intelligence. If SCPD were to address each of these points as a show of good faith and transparency, people might feel the case is being handled with the seriousness and integrity it deserves.

 

[hawkshaw]

I learned a new word today: RATIOCINATE. It comes with my email. Try using it some time when you are trying to figure things out.
These guys in Suffolk County seemed to have missed their true calling - mystery writers. Might offer their services to renowned author Stuart Woods as a ghost writer.

AND when is someone in authority going to say YOU CAN'T HAVE IT? PC Hart? DA Sini? Maybe Chief Cameron?

It's all BULLSHYTE!

 

[fred&edna]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=356461918922292

Ray gave this presser in October. In it, he raises some key points that have not been adequately addressed by SCPD:

* SCPD claims that SG died by accidental drowning; therefore, how is this an "active investigation" if her cause of death has been ruled out as homicide?
*Ray has compiled "enormous amounts of evidence," including over 17 binders of witness transcripts from Oak Beach, 7 or 8 of SG's cell phones, one of which was in her possession at the time of her death, and a laptop. Ray has offered the evidence to SCPD, but they have never come to pick it up.
*Hart herself said the best source of information is the public, but yet the public has been shut out of hearing the tapes and has not been actively or sincerely engaged as a viable source of leads in this "investigation"

So yes, the temperature of the public is reaching critical mass with all of the logical contradictions that insult our collective intelligence. If SCPD were to address each of these points as a show of good faith and transparency, people might feel the case is being handled with the seriousness and integrity it deserves.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

 

[GrayShadow]

Ouch?

 

[burntsnoop]

A friend had a quick correspondence with Sherre via fbook. She said that the tapes were infact analyzed recently when asked that and if she knew if they were tampered with..

“Yes they were analyzed but I didnt hear they were tampered with... the judge wont even let me hear them!”

Very interested in what was analyzed, if anyone else is on those tapes besides the 3 reported to be (SG, JB, MP), etc..

I find myself also wondering who Ray could possibly play those tapes for now, besides the family (if Berland even approves) that might lead to something. Losing the public release is yet another huge blow to this case. And not allowing the family to hear them is just plain disgusting.

 

[Disco1]

Just watched a news reporter ask SCPD Geraldine Hart about the reasoning the 911 calls from Shannan Gilbert have not been released. Hart states that SCPD isn’t allowed by law! That’s because SCPD (according to a judge denying the release of the calls) doesn’t want them released stating it will hinder their investigation.
Please, please, please somebody! I’m going to lose my mind with the absolute craziness of this case!