SIDEBAR #16- Arias/Alexander forum

[rose222]

BBM: That's a really interesting thought. I have always believed that it didn't go down like she planned. It got way more messy than she expected it to. What has never added up to me though is why she waited so long to kill him that day, when she knew someone could be coming home any time. She could have done it any time that afternoon and had lots of time to clean up. That's why I think there was a trigger that set her off that late afternoon/early evening. Something happened that pushed her into making her paranoid fantasy of killing him a reality. I would like to know what that trigger was.

Weren't his roommates around? She said they had to be quiet. Also, she certainly needed to sleep after all that driving. Another thing is that if she did want to murder him in the shower she needed to wait till he took one. She came fully prepared to murder him. Since it was presumably her first time there were obstacles she probably wasn't aware of or couldn't handle.

 

[dcsmyth1]

Yesterday I rewatched Nurmi's closing, where he pointed out all the prior opportunities for JA to get a better drop on TA. So I agree with Princess that there had to be a 'trigger' between 2 and 5 PM. She came 'prepared' to kill him, but I don't think she really wanted to. Most likely, they argued about their relationship, and TA got angry like he was on May 26 and told her never to contact him again. In the trial JM talked about the 'longer' and 'shorter' forms of premeditation. My question is, if JA was simply preparing for the possibility that she might decide to murder TA if things didn't go right, is that sufficient to find her legally guilty of the longer form of premeditation?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Rather he know she was coming or not, he let her in and didnt report it to police.

And I've personally never known anyone in my life that allows a "stalker" in then has sex with them.... that is just ludicious. Most run far away from stalkers and call LE ...

I have to admit that I swing back and forth on this point too. I cannot understand why Travis didn't run a mile like, most men would, once Arias displayed her strange behaviour and obsession towards him. Have some of these stories been exaggerated and gained greater meaning post crime? It is possible. Observations of what happened between them as observed by others may have been tainted by later events. Nobody will ever know the whole truth, because Arias isn't telling and Travis can't do it. I've always thought too that there are 3 sides to any relationship, there's his side, there's her side, and then there's the truth.

We may find out more about what really went on as time goes by, but there's a bigger chance we will be left with more questions than answers.

 

[21merc7]

Yesterday I rewatched Nurmi's closing, where he pointed out all the prior opportunities for JA to get a better drop on TA. So I agree with Princess that there had to be a 'trigger' between 2 and 5 PM. She came 'prepared' to kill him, but I don't think she really wanted to. Most likely, they argued about their relationship, and TA got angry like he was on May 26 and told her never to contact him again. In the trial JM talked about the 'longer' and 'shorter' forms of premeditation. My question is, if JA was simply preparing for the possibility that she might decide to murder TA if things didn't go right, is that sufficient to find her legally guilty of the longer form of premeditation?

Yes it is. Short premeditation can be as short as a minute if properly argued in Court.

If she came prepared to kill him, that is flat out premeditation, longer. It is not heat of the moment, bubbling up during an argument premeditation.

 

[mka237]

I haven't posted much since the trial ended/went on hiatus for the time being...

But I want ya'll to know I still check-in to this thread every night before bed...it's my favorite nighttime ritual...besides kissing my 2 babies goodnight every evening of course!

Our evening crew here is amazing & u ladies always bring a smile to my face! Such wonderful camaraderie here w/ such a great & inspiring group of people! :loveyou:

YesorNo, m1279, Zuri, PrincessSezMe, daisymae, & all the rest of our "regulars" here -- You are all an amazing group of ladies who share hilarious jokes, uplifting messages of support, & inspiring stories from all your different walks of life.

Thanks for the late night smiles that all of u bring to my face...it's much appreciated!!!

:tyou:

BBM -- Couldn't have said it better -- my thoughts exactly Texasgirlie! Thanks.

 

[LambChop]

Yes it is. Short premeditation can be as short as a minute if properly argued in Court.

If she came prepared to kill him, that is flat out premeditation, longer. It is not heat of the moment, bubbling up during an argument premeditation.

Plus the argument now is not the premeditation but how cruel was the death. The State claims extreme cruelty and wants the death penalty. jmo

 

[dcsmyth1]

Yes it is. Short premeditation can be as short as a minute if properly argued in Court.

If she came prepared to kill him, that is flat out premeditation, longer. It is not heat of the moment, bubbling up during an argument premeditation.

I didn't ask about 'short' premeditation, I asked about the long form of premed. (Certainly I am aware that she is undoubtedly guilty of the shorter premeditation) And my question did not presuppose that she came prepared to kill him, it's that she came prepared to possibly kill him if things went badly. So you didn't answer my question.

 

[gcharlie]

BBM JM has photos from the camera that shows that they did have sex that day- we didn't see them on TV, tho'. I do think that Travis didn't know she was coming.

Remember the expert who was going to blow up the photo of Travis's eye and claim that the reflection was of CMJA? Both sides agreed to the stipulation that CMJA did not have a gun in her hand in that photo; prior to this agreement, JM said the image looked like a Chihuahua. My point is that often, the two sides will come to some stipulation due to the tenuous nature of the evidence and the amount of court time that would be spent on an argument that was nothing more than a side show. JM probably felt that there was nothing to gain by spending time on the issue and a concession would not diminish his overall theory of events.

Studying the pictures that were shown in court, neither Travis nor CMJA look to be enjoying themselves or engaged in a pleasurable activity. The poses look bored or staged and the facial expressions don't jive with looking sexy or having fun. As others have said before me, it is doubtful we will ever know what happened that day, but these pictures don't stack up to CMJA's version of events.

 

[Jane Jetson]

Rather he know she was coming or not, he let her in and didnt report it to police.

And I've personally never known anyone in my life that allows a "stalker" in then has sex with them.... that is just ludicious. Most run far away from stalkers and call LE ...

It's pretty clear from the evidence that Little Missy was a stalker. The fact that Travis let her in is, to me, part and parcel of/with the reason he was with her in the first place. Travis had self-esteem issues, and went to the lowest common denominator when he shouldn't have. He paid with his life. :moo:

'Morning, everyone! :seeya:

 

[LambChop]

I didn't ask about 'short' premeditation, I asked about the long form of premed. (Certainly I am aware that she is undoubtedly guilty of the shorter premeditation) And my question did not presuppose that she came prepared to kill him, it's that she came prepared to possibly kill him if things went badly. So you didn't answer my question.

I'm not sure we understand your question. There is a legal thread above where you could ask that question and maybe they can help get your answer. To me premeditation is premeditation whether long or short. If she thought about killing him whether she does it seconds before and had a weapon ready to use it's premeditation. JA claimed self-defense and the jury did not agree and so found her guilty of 1st Degree Murder. jmo

 

[gcharlie]

The book Exposed: The Secret Life of Jodi Arias by Jane Velez Mitchell is scheduled to be released on August 20. An excerpt from an overview of the book:

"Now, award-winning broadcast journalist and bestselling author Jane Velez-Mitchell, a veteran of some of the most storied court cases in recent memory, goes behind the scenes of the trial and into the mind of a killer. Using insider accounts from friends who knew Travis and Jodi, Velez-Mitchell turns her sharply-focused lens on Arias and offers her seasoned perspective on the case's most pressing questions. Separating fact from fiction, she reports on the bizarre and explicit stories that have both shocked and fascinated the American public—from Jodi's romantic history before meeting Travis, to their torrid sex life together, to the complicated role their Mormon faith played in the relationship's demise. With unbridled access to the evidence and the case's key players, Velez-Mitchell unearths Jodi's contentious life with those closest to her, examining the paranoid and erratic behavior behind each relationship and illustrating the disturbing pattern of a murderer in the making."

BBM-I have my reservations about how well researched this book will be.

What questions would you like researched and answered?

For starters, here are some of my thoughts:

• More history of CMJA's odd behavior prior to the murder of Travis, using school records, work history and interviews with family, friends and co-workers. I'm sure there is a treasure trove of information that did not come into court and still is not general knowledge.
• Diaries/journals of both Travis and CMJA.
• Any recoverable content from CMJA's cameras, cell phones and computers.
• Clearer picture of CMJA's previous "romantic" relationships, especially with Bobby Juarez and Darryl Brewer. IMO, DB has not been completely honest about their relationship. With BJ, there are FB posts which indicate that CMJA's stalking behavior was in play during their relationship.
• Did Victor Arias exist and if so, what kind of a relationship did they have?
• Establish CMJA's hair color on June 2, 3, and 4th.
• How often did Travis Alexander see CMJA after June 2007? Methinks that she exaggerated their relationship and that they saw each other much less than she would like people to think.
• 18 page letter written to Travis's family after his death.

 

[geevee]

I totally agree with you "Rose". I have never for one nano-second believed that Travis knew she was coming to visit. I also do NOT believe they had sex once (let alone twice) that day. I don't think she arrived at 4 a.m. unless it was unknown to Travis. I don't think we will EVER know the truth of that night/day ... I don't believe there was any kind of snuggling/sex/photo shoot etc. She surprised him in the shower and was hiding in his closet taking photos until she trapped him naked and vulnerable in the shower ... she attacked him quickly and brutally. Poor, unsuspecting Travis.

There was no way he was EVER going to be with her or forgive her for "whatever" ... after that last text message to her. She deserves the death penalty ... she is pure evil and I am still struggling with this senseless, evil and brutal murder.

Geesh ... I just got all riled up again. Gotta go breathe ... phew!!!

LOL Breathe Sydni! I agree with you both, I don't think he had any idea she was coming either. I was rewatching some of the trial last weekend (babydoll's YT, day 7) and paid close attention to some things she said to Flores:

When he tells her about finding the pics of them having sex the first thing she says is 'The last time I had sex in his bed was in April."

Also:

"Prior to him getting his camera, all of those pictures were on my camera."

"We also did a video on that camera." (Flores confirms she's talking about Travis' new camera and tells her it's difficult for them to get videos because they're so big).

When Flores is asking if Travis knew she was coming she never answers directly until he thinks she nodded her head and presumes he did know; she says she called Travis when her phone was dying but later says she called Ryan when her phone was dying. I think Ryan's cell records could confirm that she called him and not T, her records show no call to T that evening.

"I had a wall charger & I was going to use that when I got somewhere..." - during trial she denies she has a wall charger and says T's didn't fit her phone.

To me, the most significant thing she says during both interrogations is when they're talking about the shower pics the 2nd day and she says (at 2:52:05):

"In some he looked really good, the one you showed me yesterday, of him looking right at you, I think it's a great picture, he hates it. I don't know what he hates about that, I think it's a very good picture of him."

Forgetting that's she speaking of him in present tense, that pic was taken at 5:29:20, the next one (him sitting and the attack beginning) is at 5:30:30, I tend to doubt there was enough time to show him that pic and both of them express their views on it before the sitting pic was taken (accidentally or intentionally).

I think at least the nude pics were taken in March or April (anyone know exactly when she took the shaving picture?), some of the things she's said about the shower pics give me great pause. And now knowing there are 2 camera memory sticks found, that alone opens up a lot of questions.

I really wish we could have one 'evidence' thread where we can post pics and hash all of this out, there are still just too many things that don't fit that I think together we can sleuth out.

 

[Sydni]

I agree. I do NOT think he knew she was coming that night/morning. I think it was a spur of the moment visit and he was too nice to turn her away, whenever it was she showed up. He was too caring to turn her away. And no, we'll never know what really happened that day

This case has affected me more than I realized. I was on a conference call at work today and one of the callers used the word "contemporaneous." I totally lost track of what we were discussing :facepalm: JA needs to just fade away. I long for the day when she is no longer a blip on the radar.

BBM:

LOL .... I think that day has come. She is no longer a "big" blip on the radar. Maybe to a few of us here on these pages, but she is basically just a "nothing" to the world in general. I can't believe anyone was more "into" this trial than I was ... and I am happy to have let her go for the most part. I check back in with WS every now and again and leave a post or two, but I find she (and her trial of evil) is no longer my first and last thought every day. I am so grateful for that. I think it helped that we got the right verdict of her guilt .... I had a much harder time letting go of other trials (OJ, CA, R.Blake,) etc.

I don't much care if she gets DP (which she deserves) because I know either way it will be a horrible way to spend the rest of her life. Yes!!! Yes!!! Yesssssss!!!!

 

[YESorNO]

I haven't posted much since the trial ended/went on hiatus for the time being...

But I want ya'll to know I still check-in to this thread every night before bed...it's my favorite nighttime ritual...besides kissing my 2 babies goodnight every evening of course!

Our evening crew here is amazing & u ladies always bring a smile to my face! Such wonderful camaraderie here w/ such a great & inspiring group of people! :loveyou:

YesorNo, m1279, Zuri, PrincessSezMe, daisymae, & all the rest of our "regulars" here -- You are all an amazing group of ladies who share hilarious jokes, uplifting messages of support, & inspiring stories from all your different walks of life.

Thanks for the late night smiles that all of u bring to my face...it's much appreciated!!!

:tyou:

Morning TexasGirlie :seeya:
Thank-you very much for this post :blowkiss: :tyou: We have a lot of fun every night. I wish you would chime in sometimes (and anyone else reading this reply). Everyone is welcomed. We do have a great bunch of WSers, even if we don't always, unknowingly of course, follow the rules :tos:. We are really :angel: :floorlaugh: Lamby is a great Mod, too. :gomods:
Please feel free to post anytime. We 're here every night. :winkkiss: :crosseyed: :grouphug: :razz:
Don't lurk- post and join us. :lurk:
:seeya:

 

[YESorNO]

BBM:

LOL .... I think that day has come. She is no longer a "big" blip on the radar. Maybe to a few of us here on these pages, but she is basically just a "nothing" to the world in general. I can't believe anyone was more "into" this trial than I was ... and I am happy to have let her go for the most part. I check back in with WS every now and again and leave a post or two, but I find she (and her trial of evil) is no longer my first and last thought every day. I am so grateful for that. I think it helped that we got the right verdict of her guilt .... I had a much harder time letting go of other trials (OJ, CA, R.Blake,) etc.

I don't much care if she gets DP (which she deserves) because I know either way it will be a horrible way to spend the rest of her life. Yes!!! Yes!!! Yesssssss!!!![/QUOTE

BBM


:jail: :ditto: :juanettes::juanettes::juanettes:

 

[rose222]

I don't understand why JA would change the dates on the photos to make it look like she was there with Travis on the day of the murder. Initially her story was that she wasn't even there. The photos really did her in.

I go with the simplest explanation possible. At the very least Travis did not kick JA out that day. I say he was too kind to do so. It doesn't really matter whether they did have sex or not but I think they did. I'm not sure whether she snuck up on him while he took a shower or forced him to pose. Either way he was clearly uncomfortable. The photos are very telling.

 

[daisymae]

I haven't posted much since the trial ended/went on hiatus for the time being...

But I want ya'll to know I still check-in to this thread every night before bed...it's my favorite nighttime ritual...besides kissing my 2 babies goodnight every evening of course!

Our evening crew here is amazing & u ladies always bring a smile to my face! Such wonderful camaraderie here w/ such a great & inspiring group of people! :loveyou:

YesorNo, m1279, Zuri, PrincessSezMe, daisymae, & all the rest of our "regulars" here -- You are all an amazing group of ladies who share hilarious jokes, uplifting messages of support, & inspiring stories from all your different walks of life.

Thanks for the late night smiles that all of u bring to my face...it's much appreciated!!!

:tyou:

How very sweet of you! Join up with us anytime ... the door is always open. :seeya:

 

[Jane Jetson]

I haven't posted much since the trial ended/went on hiatus for the time being...

But I want ya'll to know I still check-in to this thread every night before bed...it's my favorite nighttime ritual...besides kissing my 2 babies goodnight every evening of course!

Our evening crew here is amazing & u ladies always bring a smile to my face! Such wonderful camaraderie here w/ such a great & inspiring group of people! :loveyou:

YesorNo, m1279, Zuri, PrincessSezMe, daisymae, & all the rest of our "regulars" here -- You are all an amazing group of ladies who share hilarious jokes, uplifting messages of support, & inspiring stories from all your different walks of life.

Thanks for the late night smiles that all of u bring to my face...it's much appreciated!!!

:tyou:

Aw, that's so nice! Thanks, TG! :fence:

 

[rose222]

I've often been told I'm too sensitive. Some mean it as a compliment while others think it is not a good trait to have.

I don't think I'll ever get over what happened to Travis. I looked at some of those terrible photos today which is why I'm feeling particularly sad. I can't get over the fact that JA's devious plan worked. There are so many ways in which her plan could have backfired but no.... She accomplished her wretched, murderous mission on June 4, 2008. That a grown man even with all his survival instincts and all of that was unable to survive JA's brutal attack just makes my heart ache.

Sorry for this weepy post. I don't want to drag anyone else down.

 

[21merc7]

I didn't ask about 'short' premeditation, I asked about the long form of premed. (Certainly I am aware that she is undoubtedly guilty of the shorter premeditation) And my question did not presuppose that she came prepared to kill him, it's that she came prepared to possibly kill him if things went badly. So you didn't answer my question.

No. She is guilty of premeditation period. The long version.

The short version is like this example: Husband leaves work early, enters home and sees wife in bed with another man. Wife cries, says sorry, other man puts clothes on and says sorry. Husband smokes a cig. Husband goes to find gun. Husband kills them. That is short premeditation and is determined in the moments leading to the murder.

If she came to "possibly" kill him, then killed him, it is just as stated. Premeditation, long version. Any planning before hand is premeditation. She planned before hand. This is long version.

If that makes no sense, maybe someone else can explain the time differences better.