SIDEBAR #7- Arias/Alexander forum

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"Glad its over but there is a feeling that we did not do what we were supposed to do because we didn't come up with a verdict. We had no clue that it would be declared a mistrial. That's part of the ambiguity of the jury instructions. Not that it would have made a difference because we worked hard to come to the decision we did."
I know there has been much discussion over this jury foreman's public statements and ITA with all of those who are literally shocked and appalled at what he has thus far stated with such open sympathies for the defendant to a degree that IMO it definitely shows that this individual did not and was not able to divorce his own emotions and feelings from the unbiased, objective view that one is charged to take as their POV in making decisions as a juror.. I am simply amazed beyond words that this individual was complicit in the first two verdicts rendered in the Guilt and Agg Factor Phases.. Truly baffling that this individual who is spouting all of these IMO extremely inappropriate opinions regarding this defendant found that exact defendant GUILTY OF FIRST DEGREE PREMEDITATED MURDER as well as THE PROVEN EXTREME CRUELTY AGGRWAVATING FACTOR.. its truly mind boggling, is it not?.. Mind boggling to such a degree that I honestly cannot equate the glaringly obvious two polar opposite sides of the coin, so to speak, that we are seeing wrt one side being this juror now..and the opposite side being this juror then, just 2 weeks ago that found her guilty of this especially heinous premeditated murder..

But to go even deeper wrt the above quote from the jury foreman I become only more baffled along with I become angry(whether ppl want to say that I am wrong for my thoughts and opinions is of neither consequence or care to me so blast away) at what I am learning was the IMO literal all out negligence on the part of this man who accepted the role as this jury's foreman. In taking on that crucial role I am floored, dumbstruck, and just in literal shock as to what he is clearly stating as his having quite literally no clue what he was doing, and most seriously no clue in what the severe negative consequences were for his not even bothering or finding it of importance or necessity that he as the accepted role of jury foreman to even know, much less even begin to understand what was his duty not as foreman, but even just as a juror on this case, at this stage of the judicial process in actually deliberating to attempt to if at all possible reach a verdict.. He clearly states that he is clueless to what was his duty, period and indicates nothing whatsoever was even attempted to be done to learn what that crucial duty was..what and how that duty was to be done..and what and how the deliberations were to be led by him as the foreman ensuring the process was followed and there for the greatest likelihood of their being able to render the final phase verdict.

If that process had been even bothered to have been sought out, learned, or understood by this foreman, and in seeing through that process was followed by himself and his fellow jurors, yet they found after having followed the process unable to reach a unanimous verdict, then so be it. His job was done fully and there was indeed no verdict reached for the final phase. Their job is complete, they are dismissed and thanked for their hard work in following the due process of the law as it is set forth.. We move forward from there and truly NOTHING WHATSOEVER to be angry or upset with as far as non-verdict.

But this jury foreman is telling us that he did not at all follow the process..he is telling us that there was no effort to even know and understand what was the process that he, himself, as the foreman had a duty to uphold..to ensure he and his fellow jurors correctly proceed forward in this final phase of their duty. He states he had no clue. The process was not followed, the job was not completed, and we know this due to the fact it is the jury foreman, himself that has told us!

Unfortunately that appears not to be this individuals main concern or top priority in his need to come forward and speak out to us, the public(ie. His top priority is to speak out on behalf of this mistreated by the public, guilty defendant). But in his speaking out for her we have learned these facts regarding what steps taken by him, as the leader of this group, in this their final duty of rendering a verdict in this sentencing phase.. Of most importance we have learned that he is of the firm stance it was not/is not his duty to render a verdict of life or death(REALLY WTF???)... This foreman has stated that his belief was that this duty was not appropriate as being he is a "mere mortal", therefor NOT appropriate for him to render a verdict of life or death for the guilty defendant.. Did he inform the judge that his belief was that he, in this accepted role as this jury's leader and foreman, was of the firm stance that it was not his duty to decide this guilty defendants sentence??

No, he did not and let me tell you while yes, I'm thoroughly disgusted with his extremely inappropriate and emotionally bias statements in defense of the guilty premeditated murderer..but what I am angry and have every right to be angry, disappointed, as well as very much believe that it is exactly these type issues that are STRONG INDICATORS our system is not properly working and indeed is In desperate need of attention..much needed attention to certain processes and even changes if need be in order to make the well oiled machine of what is our justice system be up and running on all cylinders again..it needs to be inspected.. It needs to be found where those leaks are that are directly causing the machine to falter..to misfire..to stall out at times preventing it from running as it was made and intended to do..

It is called maintenance and it is an absolute necessity when speaking in literal terms of a well oiled machine.. Just as it is an absolute necessity when speaking in figurative terms of our justice system being that well oiled machine.. Both have the necessity of maintenance..it is in that maintenance that finds those areas that are causing the overall machine to falter..in finding those faulty areas they are fixed, they are remedied, and yes even at appropriate times they are updated with improved parts added, replaced, or adjusted in areas of most concern.. Areas that are in need of repair due to repeated issues with its performance or lack thereof.. Figuratively speaking it is the exact same for our wonderfully and intricately designed justice system.. Damn it we do not hesitate to fix, repair, and improve our machinery..and damn it we sure as hell should not hesitate to fix, repair, and improve our justice system!

All Jmo and I'm entitled to it..and I do in fact feel very strongly about it at this point in time!k
 
Which is why Flores said ain't no way you are seeing those photos.

It's interesting, because up to the time she was talking about the ninjas, she had not seen the photos, but was able to accurately describe the scene and match it Travis's injuries. So much for her fog. Until she became the perpetrator, she remembered everything.

She was pretty vague where it mattered when it came to the ninjas. Said she didn't actually see a lot of what happened, for various completely ridiculous reasons. The one detail she stayed consistent with throughout was that the gunshot came first, and one honest thing she said, several times, was that there was a lot of blood.
 
Yes I do. She was absolutely "breathless" when she described the experience on the HLN talk shows that night. She claimed it was a "daunting" experience....pffffft. She crowed about it all night long.

I get the feeling the dew is off the rose with JC and NG.

NG has been ultra sharp with her lately.
 
Yes, you are correct. They do it every time. But it is in the instructions and a foreman is the gatekeeper and somehow the court is failing to properly instruct those who have that position. It could very easily go the other way in terms of not being fair to the defendant. Hard to believe but it could because of them not following instructions. I don't think the foreman liked JM telling him there were no mitigating circumstances that pertained to the crime. I think he took that as "talking down to them" because the foreman had already made up his mind there were mitigation factors that he would consider. So the foreman (even though JM was telling him this) he decided to ignore what he was being told. Had the foreman been someone who felt the DP was appropriate they would have still deliberated until they were unanimous.

Precisely. Mr. F came up with his own "mitigating factors." :twocents:
 
She was pretty vague where it mattered when it came to the ninjas. Said she didn't actually see a lot of what happened, for various completely ridiculous reasons. The one detail she stayed consistent with throughout was that the gunshot came first, and one honest thing she said, several times, was that there was a lot of blood.

I figured she maintained that the gun was first was because Flores had been telling her that he believed that it was ("you shot him then you stabbed him") and she figured she should make her story fit this so he'd believe her. That's why, for me, it's hard to know how accurate that is.

I agree she was vague when she needed to be, but there were other things that screamed she remembered important details, like him being on all fours and pleading, his screams, him grabbing the right side of his head/neck. Just different things. When you consider that she was supposed to be in a fog, she was pretty spot on in her description and knows more about things that she shouldn't know.
 
OK, scrolled back many pages and can't find... what exactly was the "throw away" comment?

i posted the whole twitter convo b4 - i will nead to refind, but it was the jke about alyce making $300 per hour and the court couln't afford to but the jury more comfortable chairs - i am paraphrasing
 
But as far as I know this juror's comment was not reported in social media. It had to have gotten back to them in some other way.

It HAD to have been another juror or a member of court staff/personnel who reported it. They never spoke in the courtroom and no one else had access to them or could have overheard their conversations in the jury room.
 
What real info have you found most surprising now that its over?


Tara Kelley Tara Kelley ‏@tarakelley320: probably all the stalking stuff that wash admitted!!
 
Huh? Such as as?

ALL my posts are my opnion. If it's a fact, I would normally accompany a link.

ElleElle...would you please state that something is just your opinion when posting speculative posts.

Thank you
 
Precisely. Mr. F came up with his own "mitigating factors." :twocents:

FYI, but as part of the 'rules,' he and the other jurors were allowed to do that. They did not have to go with the list the defense team provided; they were legally permitted to consider other mitigating factors--specifically ones they came up with themselves.
 
I'm honestly confused. Why keep stirring that big black pot by making full page public statements dripping with moral outrage and giving interviews if what you want is to go back to a quiet life?

Oh. wait.

My personal fave-

"Let me explain to you how the media works. I am a media *advertiser censored*. I want nothing more than an open mic, a bully pulpit, a captive audience. But no one cares what I have to say, and therefore the media doesn’t care."

Did you notice the obligatory dig at Nancy Grace as well? Stay klassy son, stay klassy.
 
It HAD to have been another juror or a member of court staff/personnel who reported it. They never spoke in the courtroom and no one else had access to them or could have overheard their conversations in the jury room.

juror 17 is very adamant that it was court staff, not another juror, and btw she said when the were questioned about the juan autograph incident that they were never told it was juan, it was very general
 
I asked Tara, Juror #17 which came first, the gun shot or the knife wounds...

Here is her answer...

Tara Kelley ‏@tarakelley320 5m Idk that it truly matters ..he suffered so much pain either way! But I think the stab def did!
 
Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, Travis was pushed to the brink and with a different man it would have been him on trial for hurting or killing JA instead of the other way around

Ahhhh ok....whew.... :)

What has always amazed me, and I wish juan would have stressed more, is the fact that even when Travis was fighting for his life, he didn't hurt JA at all!!!!

That's mind boggling to me in the face of her abuse allegations!
:stormingmad:
 
I'm honestly confused. Why keep stirring that big black pot by making full page public statements dripping with moral outrage and giving interviews if what you want is to go back to a quiet life?

Oh. wait.

One word comes to mind.....agenda
 
What real info have you found most surprising now that its over?


Tara Kelley Tara Kelley ‏@tarakelley320: probably all the stalking stuff that wash admitted!!

I don't have a twitter account can someone ask her a really important question like "is Dr. Horn as beautiful in person as he appears on TV"
 
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