SM as a potential focus of the investigation

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I have no doubt I could fail a poly. I overthink everything. If I had a missing child and I was asked if I was responsible, I would fail, because in my mind I would be thinking about all the things I could have done differently/prevented. The only honest answer would be yes, I was responsible. Polys do not measure the truth, they measure emotional reactions to questions/ideas. People who pathologically do not have emotional responses to particular questions will pass. People have passed polys only to be convicted on DNA.

I had a friend who was accused of attacking someone with no reason. My friend was a woman who was less than five feet tall and weighed less than 90 pounds. The man who accused her of attacking him was well over six feet tall, over 200 pounds and had a history of domestic violence (one conviction and three restraining orders); no history of violence towards strangers, though.

No witnesses, so it was a "he said, she said" situation. The police asked both to take polygraphs.

The man had an inconclusive result.

My friend? Failed.

The police declined to file charges against her anyway. The examiner explained that if she had a strong emotional reaction to the charges, she might fail the test even though she was innocent because the test measures emotional reactions, not absolute truth.

I have absolutely no doubt that she was telling the truth. She had no prior relationship to this man, she had never shown any violent tendencies at all, in fact, I can't even recall her raising her voice ever. He did have a motive to want to discredit her whereas I don't think she had any motive at all (work situation).

Another friend, who has quite a lot of experience with recreational substances, passed three work polygraphs that included asking if he has ever taken illegal drugs. He's a white collar worker and this was back in the 80s when anti-drug paranoia was high.

I would really love to know whether TH's computer shows if she has ever done internet research on passing polygraphs.
 
Well, having worked in mental health with many personality disordered people, I think it speaks to her narcissistic character. Like I said in an earlier post about it not just being a "singular" incident or choice, but a compilation of many life choices. She appears to be a self absorbed person, in my opinion. I believe the statement from her friend in the oregonlive article:

"tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."
speaks volumes as to her personal character.:twocents:

playing devils advocate for a minute with your last quote:
First it's a quote of a friend, so it's second hand info. It could be a friend's perspective or it could be exactly how Terri expressed it, but we don't really know. Secondly, *IF* she is not responsible for Kyron not being at home, I would think it would be 100% normal to be frustrated at the questioning and the intensity of it. I think it would be unusual to not be frustrated they weren't looking at other people.

I don't think it's fair anyone to judge her bodybuilding time without knowing her motivation behind it - it could actually be a pretty cool story. OR she could be completely narcissistic, but at this point it's pure conjecture and with no sources-- not relevant to her focus.

I still keep going back to my thought that it was never supposed to be public that he's missing....that originally they were in contact with whoever had him, but that's no longer the case...
 
Really? Because after lengthy counseling my ex was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), and he did not drive a flashy car. Moving from that and reading up on it, getting counseling for it, I learned that NPD is common among males, and Borderline Personality Disorder is common among females. Odd that with your experience you haven't seen/heard/read that it is uncommon for females to have NPD.

I am pretty sure that the term 'narcissistic character' is a subjective one and not a technical one.

Unless I am mistaken, not one source has given a source to claim that SM is either NPD or BPD, so I think there should be no further allowed discussion of this, if for no other reason than that it could be harmful to people who are actually dealing with people with those disorders. I'd like to ask to mods to back this up. Unless something is reported, these claims should not be made about anyone.


Well, having worked in mental health with many personality disordered people, I think it speaks to her narcissistic character. Like I said in an earlier post about it not just being a "singular" incident or choice, but a compilation of many life choices. She appears to be a self absorbed person, in my opinion. I believe the statement from her friend in the oregonlive article:

"tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."
speaks volumes as to her personal character.:twocents:
 
Well, having worked in mental health with many personality disordered people, I think it speaks to her narcissistic character. Like I said in an earlier post about it not just being a "singular" incident or choice, but a compilation of many life choices. She appears to be a self absorbed person, in my opinion. I believe the statement from her friend in the oregonlive article:

"tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."speaks volumes as to her personal character.:twocents:

BBM

Putting aside Cars, Pings, Narcissism, the only thing that puts up a red flag for me right now is the statement by SM (according to her friend). When Polly Klaas went missing, Marc Klaas shouted from the rooftops..Polygraph me!! Search my car, my home! I would do the same thing. If my child was missing and they wanted to do 100 poly's on me I would be there 24/7 until they found my child. Kyron's exhaustion would be far more important than my own. So, I think SM needs to put all that body strength of hers into finding her son.
 
Respectfully snipped:

what do we really know aboout her (SM)
1. she raised Kyron from infancy.

TH has been the primary caretaker of Kyron for his whole life, first as a help to her good friend who was ill, then as the live in caretaker of Kyron for Kaine, and finally as his SM..

I'm just wondering about what's the right information about Terri raising Kyron from infancy.

Because there is a discrepancy.

Carol Moulton said that Kaine, 36, and Terri, 40, have been together for seven or eight years and that they have been married for four or five years. The couple have an 18-month-old girl.

"Terri has raised Kyron," her mother said. "She's been with him since he was an infant. She's as much of a mom as the mom is because the parents had separated about the time that Kyron was born."

She said he visits his biological mother in Medford every couple of weeks and that Desiree, 38, came to Portland as soon as she heard about his disappearance.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Then we have this article:

Kyron was born Sept. 9, 2002, and Kaine and Desiree were officially divorced in 2003. Kaine and Desiree shared custody, but Kyron mostly lived with Desiree until 2004, when she went to Canada after suffering kidney failure.

Kyron moved in full time with his dad, now 36, an engineer at Intel. With a demanding job at the company's Jones Farm campus in Hillsboro, where he works in the architecture group, Kaine needed child care. So, Desiree's friend Terri moved in to help.

"Someone had to watch the baby," said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine's brother Kristian. "Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby."
....

Desiree never tried to regain custody of Kyron, though she has maintained a close relationship with her son, caring for him every weekend or so with her new husband, Medford police Detective Tony Young.

After Desiree returned to Oregon, Terri and Kaine stayed under the same roof while he worked at Intel and she cared for the kids. What started as a caregiving relationship blossomed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html


So we have one source, Terri's mom, saying Terri and Kaine have been together for 7 or 8 years which would make it 2002 or 2003, about the time Kyron was born or a bit before. She refers to Terri raising Kyron from infancy.. She makes no mention in her account of Terri being a friend of Desirees who then got together with Kaine to help him take care of his child, rather her story is that Terri got together with Kaine and that's how she got involved with Kyron from his infancy.

The other article says Terri was friends with Desiree first and started a live-in child care relationship with Kaine in 2004 when Kyron was a toddler, and it developed into a full fledged relationship from there. (FWIW I don't see anywhere in that article where it says that Terri was first a caregiver for her good friend who was ill.) According to the article it would seem that Desiree was the caregiver for her son for the first two years or so.


So, based on these mainstream media articles, both quoting sources close to the family who should know something about them, and both saying different things, I say we still don't know what the Real Truth (tm) is. Have Terri and Kaine been together for 7-8 years which would be before Kyron was born, or for 6 years, since he was a toddler? Has Terri raised Kyron from infancy or from a two-year-old? Did her relationship with Kyron start because she was a friend of the mother's or because she was together with his dad?

Maybe we could assume that Terri's mom is not quite certain about her dates and times since she also says Desiree saw Kyron every other weekend, and thinks Kaine and Terri married 4 or 5 years ago, and the other article says every weekend and gives the date of the wedding in 2007, three years ago, which at least is verifiable by records. But wouldn't you remember if a child was a tiny baby or a two year old when he became an addition to your daughter's family?

The other option I can think of is that both accounts are true, sort of, depending on what the person you ask from knew at the time or wants to be made public now. If the relationship between Terri and Kaine in fact started seven or eight years ago they might have wanted to keep it somewhat quiet (for obvious reasons if Terri and Desiree were friends like the other article says) and waited to move in together officially, the child care arrangements making it more convenient for all parties later. In that scenario Terri could have spent a lot of time with the baby Kyron when he was with his dad, and both accounts ("raised him from infancy" and "raised him from 2004") could be true depending on if you mean the primary caretaker or an additional caretaker.

I hope this is not out of line. Whether I'm right or wrong my speculation stems directly out of a clear discrepancy between two mainstream media articles quoting family sources.
 
she definitely was 5 years ago though...
http://tour.ftvideo.com/view.php?i=content/genex/contests/2005/emerald/181189_jpg.jpg&t=7&l=38&s=6

so I think she definitely has been hitting the gym and trying to get back to herself after having a kid... imo the gym may be completely normal for her. I still think if it were me I would not be able to move without crumbling... but yes I do agree the gym is not out of the ordinary for her especially if she is trying to get back to how she was just 5 years ago.

:yow: I sure hope she can't read minds, she'd probably KO me!! :innocent:

** Honestly now, I think she looks GREAT!! I can only dream to look like that.**
 
ita, we have no idea what sort of evidence they have. one thing that i keep coming around to is that they have enough to know there is low risk that anyone else is in danger. that, imo, is a strong statement by LE. they must have some idea, otherwise there is possibly somebody out there who could take another child at any moment. that is not low risk.

I'm pretty cynical about LE saying there is a low risk to other children because sometimes LE is wrong.

For instance, in the case of Johnny Gosch, LE said it was an isolated incident, no heightened risk to other carriers, etc. On that assurance, the newspaper that was involved made no changes in their carrier policies.

Two years later, Eugene Martin, carrier for the same paper, disappeared under nearly identical circumstances.

The paper changed their policies about employing young teens as carriers.

Even if LE does have a theory and person in mind, that doesn't mean that person is the only child predator in Portland. The statistical chances of risk to any specific child have only infinitesimally changed.

Finally, keep in mind that the courts have ruled that the police have no legal responsibility to protect:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

Even in a case that involved a violation of a restraining order, the court found that there is no legal responsibility to arrest (protect).

The police run no great legal hazard by saying there is no or low risk to other children.
 
I always wanted to be a body builder, but Terri has an awfully long ways to go before getting back to how she looked 5 years ago or even to a trim well toned build. Skipping the gym during the first days even months of Kyron's disappearance (if it lasts that long) surely wouldn't have that much impact. A person can get addicted to working out or maybe she went to the gym to see if the people she knew were there and accounted for. I keep looking for rumors or even reports saying how she really is, such as controlling, dramatic, perfectionist, compulsive, etc.
 
Good Morning America just started they said they will be talking to a friend of the Horman family for a GMA exclusive on how the family is handling the questions and scrutiny...
 
Good Morning America just started they said they will be talking to a friend of the Horman family for a GMA exclusive on how the family is handling the questions and scrutiny...


can you tell us what they say??
 
Really? Because after lengthy counseling my ex was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), and he did not drive a flashy car. Moving from that and reading up on it, getting counseling for it, I learned that NPD is common among males, and Borderline Personality Disorder is common among females. Odd that with your experience you haven't seen/heard/read that it is uncommon for females to have NPD.
I am pretty sure that the term 'narcissistic character' is a subjective one and not a technical one.

Unless I am mistaken, not one source has given a source to claim that SM is either NPD or BPD, so I think there should be no further allowed discussion of this, if for no other reason than that it could be harmful to people who are actually dealing with people with those disorders. I'd like to ask to mods to back this up. Unless something is reported, these claims should not be made about anyone.


BBM.. Really? I believe you may be mistaken concerning it is uncommon for women to have NPD....JMO
http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2006/10/characteristics-of-narcissistic.html
 
Well, having worked in mental health with many personality disordered people, I think it speaks to her narcissistic character. Like I said in an earlier post about it not just being a "singular" incident or choice, but a compilation of many life choices. She appears to be a self absorbed person, in my opinion. I believe the statement from her friend in the oregonlive article:

"tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."
speaks volumes as to her personal character.:twocents:

It does? Do you realize how many moms and dads who have children who buy red cars and two door vehicles? Are they all narcissistic too or perhaps do they just like the color red? Does that include anyone that buys red shirts or red clothing of any kind?

After two weeks of enduring the trauma surrounding Kyron being missing I would imagine they are all very tired including Terri. And if this woman knows she is innocent and so much time has been wasted on looking at her I can see how she would be very frustrated.

So I don't see the narcissistic character.

IMO
 
Jamie Finster was there (on good morning america, i guess via satellite) and she says TH is frustrated with the internet blogging and speculation on her and how it is really hard, how she is ready for Kyron to come home.

Jamie said Terri has been in Kyron's life since he was 3 days old, stopped teaching to take care of Kyron and has been primary caregiver since then.

Friend agrees with them staying out of media and keeping focus on Kyron. She said she sees why they are doing it.

ooo they are asking about the "hitting the gym" and if Jamie thinks that is normal?... her reply was If you knew Terri it would be that is a big part of her life and it didn't surprise her at all, that she met Terri through fittness and knows that's how Terri handles things.

Jamie said she last spoke with Terri yesterday and asked Terri if it's ok to speak out and Terri told her yes with the internet stuff going on it is just very damaging and tiring... and Jamie said that she knows Terri and just wanted to speak out for her on her part.

They asked about the Polygraph and Jamie said Terri was scheduled to take it but doesn't know if she did or not.

And that was it (not word for word... I tried taking notes while they were talking) but I'm no Journalist
 
Jamie Finster was there (on good morning america, i guess via satellite) and she says TH is frustrated with the internet blogging and speculation on her and how it is really hard, how she is ready for Kyron to come home.

Jamie said Terri has been in Kyron's life since he was 3 days old, stopped teaching to take care of Kyron and has been primary caregiver since then.

Friend agrees with them staying out of media and keeping focus on Kyron. She said she sees why they are doing it.

ooo they are asking about the "hitting the gym" and if Jamie thinks that is normal?... her reply was If you knew Terri it would be that is a big part of her life and it didn't surprise her at all, that she met Terri through fittness and knows that's how Terri handles things.

Jamie said she last spoke with Terri yesterday and asked Terri if it's ok to speak out and Terri told her yes with the internet stuff going on it is just very damaging and tiring... and Jamie said that she knows Terri and just wanted to speak out for her on her part.

They asked about the Polygraph and Jamie said Terri was scheduled to take it but doesn't know if she did or not.

And that was it (not word for word... I tried taking notes while they were talking) but I'm no Journalist

Great recap! Thanks!

Did the friend happen to mention again if this was the 2nd poly Terri was suppose to be taking?
 
Jamie Finster was there (on good morning america, i guess via satellite) and she says TH is frustrated with the internet blogging and speculation on her and how it is really hard, how she is ready for Kyron to come home.

Jamie said Terri has been in Kyron's life since he was 3 days old, stopped teaching to take care of Kyron and has been primary caregiver since then.

Friend agrees with them staying out of media and keeping focus on Kyron. She said she sees why they are doing it.

ooo they are asking about the "hitting the gym" and if Jamie thinks that is normal?... her reply was If you knew Terri it would be that is a big part of her life and it didn't surprise her at all, that she met Terri through fittness and knows that's how Terri handles things.

Jamie said she last spoke with Terri yesterday and asked Terri if it's ok to speak out and Terri told her yes with the internet stuff going on it is just very damaging and tiring... and Jamie said that she knows Terri and just wanted to speak out for her on her part.

They asked about the Polygraph and Jamie said Terri was scheduled to take it but doesn't know if she did or not.
And that was it (not word for word... I tried taking notes while they were talking) but I'm no Journalist

BBM: I think she said another...

All info friend sad was on the computer already...so.. nothing new...
 
Jamie Finster was there (on good morning america, i guess via satellite) and she says TH is frustrated with the internet blogging and speculation on her and how it is really hard, how she is ready for Kyron to come home.

Jamie said Terri has been in Kyron's life since he was 3 days old, stopped teaching to take care of Kyron and has been primary caregiver since then.

Friend agrees with them staying out of media and keeping focus on Kyron. She said she sees why they are doing it.

ooo they are asking about the "hitting the gym" and if Jamie thinks that is normal?... her reply was If you knew Terri it would be that is a big part of her life and it didn't surprise her at all, that she met Terri through fittness and knows that's how Terri handles things.

Jamie said she last spoke with Terri yesterday and asked Terri if it's ok to speak out and Terri told her yes with the internet stuff going on it is just very damaging and tiring... and Jamie said that she knows Terri and just wanted to speak out for her on her part.

They asked about the Polygraph and Jamie said Terri was scheduled to take it but doesn't know if she did or not.

And that was it (not word for word... I tried taking notes while they were talking) but I'm no Journalist

So basically she is letting her friend take the heat for her. If she wants the focus off her and on Kyron then she shouldn't hide behind her friends and let people see that she is a grieving mother who wants her son back. By not talking she is making it look like she has something to hide.
 
I totally agree why is she having her friend go on TV for her? Unless she is like super vain about the way she looks and doesn't want to show any more "abnormal" behaviors... If it were me I would be on with a picture of my son... begging for who ever has him to let him go. I would not believe that there was even a possibility that he were gone forever. I would think someone has him like someone kept Jaycee and I would just say please let Kyron go, Kyron if you are out there I love you, we love you, and we are not stopping till you come home... I don't get why no one is pleading for him... why does it feel like they have just given up on him... ? :/
 
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