South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #1

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RAHIMA ESSOP@rahimaessop

Johnson: from the options available when setting up his profile, Dewani chose "gay" to describe himself.

Johnson: Dewani's profile said he wasn't "out".
Johnson: Dewani's profile said "passive sub guy".

Johnson: there was a single transaction to upgrade from a guest to member on gaydar for 60 pounds.

Johnson: gaydar record of saved messages for 1 may 2009 - 5 October 2010 contained in the witness' folder.

15 November 2010, there's a record of the profile being activated at 01:03 British time. taking note of that time and convert to SA time - SA 2 hours ahead in Nov


Aislinn Laing @Simmoa

Johnson describes Dewani's Gaydar profile. Says he twice described self as gay rather than bisexual which is what he said he was in court.

Dewani described himself as a "passive sub guy" when asked on the Gaydar site to describe himself.

Johnson says in another field asked who he was looking for, he replied: "single gay man, single bi man, gay couple", but not bisexual couple

Looks like we're to hear the contents of some of Dewani's Gaydar messages between 1 May 2009 and 5 October 2010

Mr Mopp asks how Gaydar profiles are accessed - will no doubt look at whether laptop could do it without human instruction.
 
Thanks for the catchup, PrimeSuspect! Much appreciated.
 
Aislinn Laing @Simmoa

Johnson says they have to open browser, go to Gaydar site and enter ID, then assigned "unique session ID".
Johnson says in some circs, a Gaydar user's details are saved for the next session, but they always have to manually click to log in
Johnson says the more info Gaydar users add, the better their "searchability". Can also designate other users as "friends" or "favourites"
Dewani describes himself as being based in London/Bristol/Manchester on Gaydar profile. As witness speaks, Dewani passes his brother a note
Johnson says the nature of the chatrooms is "sexually charged" and there are different rooms for different fetishes and interests
Johnson says Gaydar doesn't track all activity, in chatrooms etc, as privacy important to users, but it does see the messages delivered.
Mr Mopp finishes questions - Mr Van Zyl asks Johnson if Gaydar is for bi and gay men and women. He says there's a "Gaydar Girls" for women
Van Zyl asks if Gaydar isn't like Facebook? Johnson requires that Facebook is a social media site, Gaydar is a more private dating site. OMG, how stupid



RAHIMA ESSOP@rahimaessop

State: once online, how do you terminate browser activity? Johnson: you can sign out, or end data connection.
Johnson: the more info someone adds to the profile, it increases their "search-ability".
Johnson: as a customer, if you see a profile you like, you can add it to "friends" list or "favourites".
Dewani passes a note to his legal team from the dock.
Johnson: there is a limit to what Gaydar tracks. Privacy is of the utmost importance.
Johnson: we don't know what chat rooms the customer visits.
Johnson: only people who can see private photos are the customer and whoever he sends it to.
Van Zyl up now. He says he only has a few questions.
VZ reading wikipedia definition of Gaydar.
VZ reading wikipedia definition of Gaydar ...'users can sebd messages, participate in chat rooms, post photos".
VZ: no way you can say what he was doing on 12 NOV 2010? Johnson: No.
 
zwiebel said:
Thanks for the catchup, PrimeSuspect! Much appreciated.
Click to expand...

No probs, this is starting to get interesting. And the judge, there is just no comparison to the other trial, she asks questions, we know she exists in other words. lol
 
RAHIMA ESSOP@rahimaessop

VZ: "except for the gayness of it, Gaydar is like Facebook". Johnson: not really, Gaydar is for particular audience.
Van Zyl suggesting Gaydar is like Facebook.Also makes it known Gaydar can't tell you what customer was doing when logged on.
VZ: Shrien's family decided to deactivate his Gaydar account, because at the time media was looking for anything on him.


Aislinn Laing @Simmoa

Van Zyl asks if Gaydar isn't like Facebook. Johnson replies that Facebook is a social media site, Gaydar is a more private dating site.
Van Zyl asks if he has any way of telling whether the profile was changed since 2004.Johnson replies that he can only say how it looked last
Van Zyl: "The accused will tell the court that he has not changed any of the information since 2004." LOL, so that was the note from Dewani

Van Zyl's implication being that if Dewani had come to see himself as bisexual, he had not changed his Gaydar profile to reflect that
oh, rubbish
Van Zyl asks witness if it's possible for someone else, eg Dewani's sister, to remove his profile if she had his username and password So is VZ suggesting other people used Dewani's account?
 
Aislinn Laing @Simmoa

Witness Johnson says it is possible. Van Zyl says she did so after Anni's death because the media were trawling for information about him.
Mr Mopp says his deputy is sick and the next witness hasn't been prepared. He asks for an adjournment til 10am tomorrow morning.


RAHIMA ESSOP@rahimaessop

Shrien's face is rich with expression. Either he is nodding, furrows his brow, or his eyes dart across the room.
Johnson says he worked at Gaydar for 6, nearly 7 years.
VZ turns to Dewani at the end of cross examination, Dewani smiles at his lawyer. :sick:
Prosecutor asks for a postponement because his colleague fell ill over the weekend, wasn't enough time to prep next witness.

Witness number 4 will be called tomorrow.

Today's wrap:defence suggests Anni was to be held hostage for ransom,but shot accidentally and Shrien's sexuality again in focus.

My seat in court allows me to see almost everything that goes on between him and his lawyer. So yes it did happen. Must be about the smile Dewani gave his lawyer, yet he was crying earlier, pathetic.
 
The defence says that Dewani's family decided to deactivate his a/c because the media were trying to 'dig up' anything on him. His profile was removed by Preyen (sister) on the 21.11.10 the court was told. If accurate I wonder how long his family had known he was registered on the gay site.

http://ewn.co.za/Features/dewani-live-blog
 
Interesting if his family had known for a while, and maybe exerted pressure for Dewani to marry and conform? Maybe an inheritance was at stake? Or did Dewani make his own money?
 
patCee said:
The defence says that Dewani's family decided to deactivate his a/c because the media were trying to 'dig up' anything on him. His profile was removed by Preyen (sister) on the 21.11.10 the court was told. If accurate I wonder how long his family had known he was registered on the gay site.
Click to expand...
I think his siblings knew of his gay life and probably covered for him for years, so parents wouldn't know. And to add to that, imo, the parents knew but were in full denial. They must have heard gossip about lovers leaving his place or being seen around town with a guy. Dewani confided to LL, that he was in a serious relationship with a guy and considered telling all to his parents, but something changed that, maybe, one of the parents forewarned him that if they discovered he was gay and wouldn't marry a respectable woman and have children, he would be disowned. JMO

I just hope VZ wasn't trying to suggest that the two log ins, on the 15 and 16 November, was anyone else but Dewani. He's planted a seed of doubt that Dewani's sister was able to log in and deactivate the account. VZ knows it's damning evidence that Dewani logged in the day after Anni's body was found.

Gawd, I really dislike Dawani. His crying one moment and then smiling to his lawyer. Very cold and calculating person.
 
zwiebel said:
Interesting if his family had known for a while, and maybe exerted pressure for Dewani to marry and conform? Maybe an inheritance was at stake? Or did Dewani make his own money?
Click to expand...

I've only ever read that Dewani's family have care homes. No information re Dewani's involvement. Their site gives no information on staff, directorships etc. The homes look very attractive in lovely parts of the UK, and deal with dementia patients and other elderly who need supportive living.
 
zwiebel said:
Interesting if his family had known for a while, and maybe exerted pressure for Dewani to marry and conform? Maybe an inheritance was at stake? Or did Dewani make his own money?
Click to expand...

Just checked it out Z because I wasn't too sure either, this is the info I found. So maybe that was the lure, he could run the family business and inherit it if he married?

He read economics at the University of Manchester and qualified as an accountant.
Following university he began work at accountancy and consultancy giant Deloitte in London when he met his future wife through mutual friends.
They dated for 18 months, during which he returned to Bristol to run the family firm, PSP Healthcare.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-14662727
 
soozieqtips said:
...

"Speaking publicly for the first time, ...

...he said they put a gun in his ear ...

...
Click to expand...

LOL.

Put a gun in his ear???

Dewani said, "...he put a gun in my ear."?

In the US you'd hear, "he put a gun to my head."

Is that a UK thing that Dewani said it that way?
 
patCee said:
Reading Anni's close friend Sneha's account is so upsetting. Whatever is at play when an intelligent young women, from a wealthy supportive family, living independently had all those doubts about Dewani but still goes ahead with the marriage to this appalling man, at best putting herself into a life of misery. If it's cultural, how is that level of control maintained so powerfully when living in western society? Maybe she just wanted a conventional family life for herself but is that really a valid explanation when she had such serious doubts about this man? I am struggling to understand the psychology that is presented in this case. Dewani may have needed to portray himself as a conventional hetersexual man to his family despite the dishonesty involved, but he is clearly more complex in his self absorbed, devious personality.
Click to expand...


All I can say is that I did the same thing.

I was getting older and really wanted kids. I decided that finding the "love of one's life" was romantic nonsense. What you do is find someone that seems nice enough, get married, and make it work.

It was all bad news and I should have broken it off, but I wanted kids. I figured I could always divorce him, plans for the wedding were already underway and much of it paid for. My groom and I pretended our way through the whole thing. Many years later my father was surprised to learn that. I guess we were pretty good actors -- OR he saw what he wanted to.

Things went downhill from there and we divorced within a year. BUT I did have a son. Yaay!

I never got any money EVER from that husband for child support, that's what they call it in the US, even though it was stipulated in the legal paperwork that he would. (Back then, they would never toss deadbeat parents into jail in my state, Illinois, for not paying child support saying, "If we throw them in jai how do expect them to get a job to pay you the money?) Now, they toss 'em in jail. Too late for me.

The bad news and the GREAT news is that he left my life, and our son's life, 100% and forever. I never saw him or spoke to him, again. Bless his heart for leaving us alone.
 
Judgejudi said:
"Earlier in the week Dewani had told the court that he is bisexual and that his “relations” with men “were mostly physical experiences or email chats with people I met online or in clubs, including prostitutes such as Leopold Leisser. My sexual interactions with females were usually during the course of a relationship which consisted of other activities and emotional attachment.”

He says his relations with men were physical. What does he mean then that his "sexual relations" with females consisted of "other activities". Sexual relations have to be physical. Until the DT bring forward a woman who will admit to having sexual intercourse as opposed to "other activities", I won't believe that he's ever engaged in sex with a woman. If this is the case, it's totally unbelievable that, according to Anni's message to Sneha, they "did it" five times in one night, unless of course they were one minute wonders. Even then, being gay, not bisexual, I would have thought the mere thought of it would have repulsed him and he'd be totally incapable of doing it more than once, if at all.
Click to expand...


I imagine the "other activities" would include hugging, cuddling, etc.

For many gay men, but not all, physical contact is 100% direct "sexual stimulation". Zero of anything else.
 
Fuskier said:
BIB Is it possible that Dewani sent that message on Anni's phone? Hypothetically sent to create the veneer of heterosexuality? Depending upon dates, post mortem examination of Anni may be able to establish this fact or not IMO.
Click to expand...


I've always wondered that myself.
 
PrimeSuspect said:
This third visit with LL was very revealing imo, SD opens up about his impending marriage and that if he calls it off, will be disowned by his family.
LL suggests living a double life like his other married clients but this doesn't go over too well with SD, imo.

SD confides in LL that he met 'the one', a guy who he obviously loved so much, he was nearly prepared to tell his family about it. To me this reveals he wants to live with and have sex with a man, he never wants to live with a woman and could never have a 'double life'. I think he hates women. There are many gay guys who like women's company, there are some who don't, and SD is one of them.

LL says that in the morning, after the night SD had bared his soul, he was grumpy and rude. LL says some married clients can be like this, they feel guilt.
Imo, SD was this way because LL didn't offer any better alternatives than to live a 'double life' . I think SD was devastated by this response, as it is what his parents want him to do also. He obviously wanted to hear something else. SD, somewhere between then and the honeymoon, concocted the solution that would appease his parents and enable him to live with a man he fancied.

jmo

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/dewani-rent-boy-tells-all-1.1759985#.VDs3GmeSyfU
Click to expand...



I don't think LL has any reason to lie. If he was paid to lie, THIS would hardly be the lie.

Quite frankly, I think LL's info hits the nail directly on the head.

What he's saying is exactly WHY what happened, happened.
 
PrimeSuspect said:
RAHIMA ESSOP@rahimaessop#DewaniTrial

Shrien touches his ear, drops his head, still gulping, still crying.

Dewani very emotional as Mr Van Zyl questions Qwabe re moment he was forced out of the car, tears running down his face, gulping for air.

Shrien's lips twitching, eyes red, gulps as he stares at Qwabe talking about the night of the hijacking.

Shrien takes a sip of water, seems to be trying to compose himself.

Dewani takes several deep breaths


Aislinn Laing @Simmoa

Van Zyl: "Did you see where he was as you drove off?" Qwabe says no. Dewani's lips quiver, he's taking deep breaths and drinking water.

VZ of Dewani: "He never instructed Tongo or anyone else to kill his wife, that those who are testifying are not telling the truth."

Qwabe: "I cannot comment about what he and Zola were speaking about. Zola told us what he said, that he wanted the wife killed."

Mr Van Zyl has finished and Mr Mopp back up. Mr Mopp asks Qwabe about Van Zyl's theory that Anni might have been kidnapped "for ransom".

Mr Mopp: "You concede that there was poor planning, but was the objective achieved?" Qwabe: "Yes sir."

Mopp: "Mr VZ is saying you shot her by mistake, by accident. Was it an accident?" Qwabe: "There was never anything about a ransom."
Click to expand...


Beyond acting, if I were SD I'd be quivering, too, at the recollection of this moment - the moment my life changed forever, the moment where it was out of my hands, there was no going back, no shouting out at the last minute, "Stop, I've changed my mind."
 
ColonelMustard said:
All I can say is that I did the same thing.

I was getting older and really wanted kids. I decided that finding the "love of one's life" was romantic nonsense. What you do is find someone that seems nice enough, get married, and make it work.

It was all bad news and I should have broken it off, but I wanted kids. I figured I could always divorce him, plans for the wedding were already underway and much of it paid for. My groom and I pretended our way through the whole thing. Many years later my father was surprised to learn that. I guess we were pretty good actors -- OR he saw what he wanted to.

Things went downhill from there and we divorced within a year. BUT I did have a son. Yaay!

I never got any money EVER from that husband for child support, that's what they call it in the US, even though it was stipulated in the legal paperwork that he would. (Back then, they would never toss deadbeat parents into jail in my state, Illinois, for not paying child support saying, "If we throw them in jai how do expect them to get a job to pay you the money?) Now, they toss 'em in jail. Too late for me.

The bad news and the GREAT news is that he left my life, and our son's life, 100% and forever. I never saw him or spoke to him, again. Bless his heart for leaving us alone.
Click to expand...

What you are saying makes so much sense. We all have our personal 'drivers' that push us along. I always think it's not life's hurdles that hold us back emotionally, it's how we deal with them. :yes:
 
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