South Africa - Anni Dewani, 28, shot to death, Gugulethu, 13 Nov 2010 #1

[Cherwell]

LOL.

Put a gun in his ear???

Dewani said, "...he put a gun in my ear."?

In the US you'd hear, "he put a gun to my head."

Is that a UK thing that Dewani said it that way?

Not particularly, but if someone literally stuck a gun into my ear, that's how I would describe it.
"Putting a gun to someone's head" is not exactly the same thing. It's less specific: it could mean the back of the head, the forehead, or the side.

 

[zwiebel]

The Trial was adjourned today as a junior in the prosecution team has chickenpox. It will continue Monday (though no-one gets over chickenpox that quick). But apparently there were some proceedings this morning?

BBC article says emails found on MRS Dewani's computer, sent by MR Dewani, about his sexuality, have been disallowed by the judge. Wonder if that's a typo? Why would he have sent mails from Anni's computer?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-29610485

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The Trial was adjourned today as a junior in the prosecution team has chickenpox. It will continue Monday (though no-one gets over chickenpox that quick). But apparently there were some proceedings this morning?

BBC article says emails found on MRS Dewani's computer, sent by MR Dewani, about his sexuality, have been disallowed by the judge. Wonder if that's a typo? Why would he have sent mails from Anni's computer?

You're right Z, definitely a typo. There were 53 emails from 2009.

After reading the article, I can understand why the Judge doesn't want to know about it, it's probably just friendly chat and advice and nothing to do with the murder of Anni or the state of their marriage.
Obviously Dewani didn't take his friend's advise though.

Mr Dewani was advised by his friend that "marriage is a serious commitment that needs to be thought about carefully and not entered into easily".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-29610485

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The court also heard evidence from Warrant Officer George Stefanus, who was on duty in Gugulethu township on November 13, 2010, when the taxi the Dewanis were travelling in was attacked by two armed men.
"He was neatly dressed but you could see he was emotional," he said. "He was crying, saying: 'I hope they didn't kill Anni. I hope Anni's ok'."

WO Stefanus said Mr Dewani told him his wife "insisted" on driving through Gugulethu because she wanted to see the "nightlife in the township"

Mr Van Zyl asked the officer why it took him two and a half hours after arriving at the Cape Grace to interview Mr Dewani, given the urgency of the search for the hijacked taxi and Mrs Dewani. "Why did you take such a long time to speak to him?" he asked.
The officer replied that Mr Dewani had been on his phone and talking to the hotel management.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gay-or-bisexual-doesnt-matter-says-judge.html


Unbelievable. :shakehead:

Dewani talking to hotel management just after he's been through such an 'ordeal' of being hijacked and his wife most possibly dead?!! Once back in Britain and finds out he is under suspicion of ordering the hit, he suddenly is overcome with grief and traumatized about that night!!

The big lie that really grates on me is Dewani insisting it was Anni's idea to visit the township in the middle of the night,( in her evening gown, heels and diamonds no less!)

We've learned so far that Dewani has been controlling this whole relationship, he admonished Anni about her spending habits before they were even married, he criticized her sari on her wedding day, he did nothing but make her unhappy and yet, he wants the court to believe that Anni could persuade him to cruise around in a crime ridden district in the middle of the night with a total stranger?!

Comments left on media articles show a disdain for dwelling so much on Dewani's gayness. I agree 100% that being gay doesn't make one a murderer. But like in other trials where a man has a mistress and his wife ends up dead, the sexual aspect of the relationship is very important. Desperation can lead some weak and criminally minded people down the path of murder, and should be addressed, imo.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

A case of a gay Indian man choosing a young woman from India to marry and then murder, all in an effort to hide his sexuality and not bring shame on his family. The Judge believes he planned her murder way in advance, installing an incinerator to burn her body after killing her.

Jasvir Ram Ginday, 29, married Varkha Rani in ceremony in India last year
But six months later she discovered he was gay and threatened to 'out' him
He used a metal hoover pipe to kill her before burning her body in his garden
The bank worker reported her missing before police discovered her body
He admitted manslaughter saying he'd 'lost control' during an argument
A jury at Wolverhampton Crown Court found him guilty of murder today
He was jailed for life and ordered to serve a minimum 21 years behind bars
Judge tells him he is a 'devious man' who spun 'lie after lie' to save himself
Victim's mother said she he planned to 'marry a girl from India and kill her'

Sentencing Ginday to life imprisonment today, Judge Warner said: 'You suggest in the case going over to India to ask Varkha to marry you was not deceitful... It was clearly a fundamental deception.
'It may be that you formed the intentions to do what you did as long as ago as when you bought the incinerator.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-new-wife-threatened-him.html#ixzz3GL9VDAwZ

 

[Frankie Hellis]

The court also heard evidence from Warrant Officer George Stefanus, who was on duty in Gugulethu township on November 13, 2010, when the taxi the Dewanis were travelling in was attacked by two armed men.
"He was neatly dressed but you could see he was emotional," he said. "He was crying, saying: 'I hope they didn't kill Anni. I hope Anni's ok'."

WO Stefanus said Mr Dewani told him his wife "insisted" on driving through Gugulethu because she wanted to see the "nightlife in the township"

Mr Van Zyl asked the officer why it took him two and a half hours after arriving at the Cape Grace to interview Mr Dewani, given the urgency of the search for the hijacked taxi and Mrs Dewani. "Why did you take such a long time to speak to him?" he asked.
The officer replied that Mr Dewani had been on his phone and talking to the hotel management.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gay-or-bisexual-doesnt-matter-says-judge.html


Unbelievable. :shakehead:

Dewani talking to hotel management just after he's been through such an 'ordeal' of being hijacked and his wife most possibly dead?!! Once back in Britain and finds out he is under suspicion of ordering the hit, he suddenly is overcome with grief and traumatized about that night!!

<snip>

I am no Dewani fan, but I viewed this as him coordinating the search for Anni. I think he was probably making sure she hadn't shown up back at the hotel, letting them know to be looking out for her, and maybe even asking them to go check their suite or to get the cops to check their room to see if she was there. I don't know why else he would be talking to hotel management that night. He was right in the presence of a cop so I really doubt he was doing something nefarious.

 

[Cherwell]

I am no Dewani fan, but I viewed this as him coordinating the search for Anni. I think he was probably making sure she hadn't shown up back at the hotel, letting them know to be looking out for her, and maybe even asking them to go check their suite or to get the cops to check their room to see if she was there. I don't know why else he would be talking to hotel management that night. He was right in the presence of a cop so I really doubt he was doing something nefarious.

I think you've misunderstood (or I have). This took place AT the hotel.

He said he had interviewed Mr Dewani at the upmarket Cape Grace Hotel ....
.... Mr Van Zyl asked the officer why it took him two and a half hours after arriving at the Cape Grace to interview Mr Dewani, given the urgency of the search for the hijacked taxi and Mrs Dewani. "Why did you take such a long time to speak to him?" he asked.
The officer replied that Mr Dewani had been on his phone and talking to the hotel management.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...gay-or-bisexual-doesnt-matter-says-judge.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I am no Dewani fan, but I viewed this as him coordinating the search for Anni. I think he was probably making sure she hadn't shown up back at the hotel, letting them know to be looking out for her, and maybe even asking them to go check their suite or to get the cops to check their room to see if she was there. I don't know why else he would be talking to hotel management that night. He was right in the presence of a cop so I really doubt he was doing something nefarious.

Why would he be coordinating the search for Anni, he was in a foreign land and that's the LE's job. Dewani should have been assisting police which means he talks to them a.s.a.p., not hold them off for 2 1/2 hours.

IMO, Dewani waited for the all clear that Anni was dead. If Anni had been 'freed' by her captors not long after Dewani was released, she would have raised the alarm. After more than 2 hours, Dewani was convinced she was dead, so he was ready to speak to the police.

 

[newone]

Why would he be coordinating the search for Anni, he was in a foreign land and that's the LE's job. Dewani should have been assisting police which means he talks to them a.s.a.p., not hold them off for 2 1/2 hours.

IMO, Dewani waited for the all clear that Anni was dead. If Anni had been 'freed' by her captors not long after Dewani was released, she would have raised the alarm. After more than 2 hours, Dewani was convinced she was dead, so he was ready to speak to the police.

yes! he needed that time to collect himself....ready for his next act

 

[kevin_405]

Why would he be coordinating the search for Anni, he was in a foreign land and that's the LE's job. Dewani should have been assisting police which means he talks to them a.s.a.p., not hold them off for 2 1/2 hours.

IMO, Dewani waited for the all clear that Anni was dead. If Anni had been 'freed' by her captors not long after Dewani was released, she would have raised the alarm. After more than 2 hours, Dewani was convinced she was dead, so he was ready to speak to the police.

That is called Over analyzing things. The case against dewani is pretty weak. Being gay or bi is not a crime, that's the only evidence the cops have. Any confession and evidence by the convicted killers is highly prejudiced.The cops should have done a better job collecting evidence, maybe even a sting to get a taped evidence.

Most countries the case would never see a day in court.

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[PrimeSuspect]

That is called Over analyzing things. The case against dewani is pretty weak. Being gay or bi is not a crime, that's the only evidence the cops have. Any confession and evidence by the convicted killers is highly prejudiced.The cops should have done a better job collecting evidence, maybe even a sting to get a taped evidence.

Most countries the case would never see a day in court.

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Being gay is not a crime, that's right, but if he were straight and he had a mistress, living a double life, this should be overlooked in your opinion too, or are gay men excluded from their sex life being exposed? It's a shame to make this about political correctness, it is important who he is having sex with and why he would marry a straight woman who has no idea he's gay, he was deceptive when he proposed. Dewani is not bisexual, he couldn't bring himself to touch her or have sex with her, so why marry in the first place?

I posted a link in #925 about another gay Indian man who chose a wife from India for the same reason, to hide his sexuality and not bring shame on his family. He plotted and carried out the murder himself. He was just sentenced to a minimum of 21 yrs behind bars.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3GL9VDAwZ

 

[jslk]

The parallels with the other case are very interesting. I remember that case vaguely in the news, but didn't make a connection between the two.
I do however agree with kevin_405 that the case is weak, relying on the testimony of convicted killers is weak.

 

[kevin_405]

Being gay is not a crime, that's right, but if he were straight and he had a mistress, living a double life, this should be overlooked in your opinion too, or are gay men excluded from their sex life being exposed? It's a shame to make this about political correctness, it is important who he is having sex with and why he would marry a straight woman who has no idea he's gay, he was deceptive when he proposed. Dewani is not bisexual, he couldn't bring himself to touch her or have sex with her, so why marry in the first place?

I posted a link in #925 about another gay Indian man who chose a wife from India for the same reason, to hide his sexuality and not bring shame on his family. He plotted and carried out the murder himself. He was just sentenced to a minimum of 21 yrs behind bars.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3GL9VDAwZ

I am not talking about reasoning of if he did it or why he did it. He probably did pay those guys to kill her , but then again with such shoddy evidence we will never know for sure. I am appalled at the quality of investigation in this case

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[PrimeSuspect]

The parallels with the other case are very interesting. I remember that case vaguely in the news, but didn't make a connection between the two.
I do however agree with kevin_405 that the case is weak, relying on the testimony of convicted killers is weak.

I am not talking about reasoning of if he did it or why he did it. He probably did pay those guys to kill her , but then again with such shoddy evidence we will never know for sure. I am appalled at the quality of investigation in this case

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I'm sorry but I don't quite get what you both mean, how is the case weak? Dewani is let out of the vehicle, alive and unhurt, he can describe the hijackers, yet conveniently chooses not to, and his wife, Anni is kept to continue the journey. His lawyer has come up with a theory that it was a ransom kidnapping that went wrong. It's laughable, how did it go wrong? Many kidnap victims are murdered, hasn't stopped the kidnappers demanding money before. It's just ludicrous that they haven't a leg to stand on and grasping at straws. JMO

 

[jslk]

I meant weak in terms of the only testimony (so far) is from men who I believe to be less than reliable, Tongo and Qwabe have both given evidence under plea bargains which I think casts doubt on their claims... I truly hope that the prosecution will bring other kinds of evidence into the trial as I'm fairly sure SD is guilty. JMO

 

[kevin_405]

I'm sorry but I don't quite get what you both mean, how is the case weak? Dewani is let out of the vehicle, alive and unhurt, he can describe the hijackers, yet conveniently chooses not to, and his wife, Anni is kept to continue the journey. His lawyer has come up with a theory that it was a ransom kidnapping that went wrong. It's laughable, how did it go wrong? Many kidnap victims are murdered, hasn't stopped the kidnappers demanding money before. It's just ludicrous that they haven't a leg to stand on and grasping at straws. JMO

This is called weak circumstantial evidence. IMO, it is the worst kind of evidence to convict someone on, because there is a strong chance an innocent might spend a long time behind bars. Evey we few years we hear about these kind of stories about convicted prisoners getting released because the true culprits at caught.

The only real evidence is the confession by the driver. No one can collaborate to this. He walks out with 1000 rand , a equivalent of 100$ and says he was short charged. If the drivers claims r true he would have black mailed diwani for the rest of the money. The driver could have been used as bait by the investigators.
This leads to strong possibility of driver having ulterior motives.

I just hope that stronger evidence is found or revealed against dewani or the prosecution should just stop this charade




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[PrimeSuspect]

This is called weak circumstantial evidence. IMO, it is the worst kind of evidence to convict someone on, because there is a strong chance an innocent might spend a long time behind bars. Evey we few years we hear about these kind of stories about convicted prisoners getting released because the true culprits at caught.

The only real evidence is the confession by the driver. No one can collaborate to this. He walks out with 1000 rand , a equivalent of 100$ and says he was short charged. If the drivers claims r true he would have black mailed diwani for the rest of the money. The driver could have been used as bait by the investigators.
This leads to strong possibility of driver having ulterior motives.

I just hope that stronger evidence is found or revealed against dewani or the prosecution should just stop this charade




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I respect your opinion, but can you give an example of circumstantial evidence that is strong, excluding confessions by the kidnappers. I agree, to solely convict someone of murder by that alone is dangerous considering their character and criminal history. CCTV footage is yet to be presented to the court. I don't know if you're aware of this, if you are, what is your opinion of Dewani meeting up with Tongo to give him money. Dewani looked very happy, even elated when they meet face to face, they then proceed into a room where there is no cameras and the gift is made. This is a still from the video, the court will have access to the full cctv footage.

Does this look like a grief stricken and traumatized man who just a day before endured a gun hijacking, his life threatened and his wife found murdered? When he thought he was back safely in England and free from suspicion he was still doing fine, but when he is accused of orchestrating the hijacking and murder of his wife and should be brought back to SA to answer questions, he suddenly has a breakdown. So how does that work, breakdown brought on by being a suspect, not by what happened on 13 November, 2010? Dewani hadn't thought it through obviously.

 

[kevin_405]

I respect your opinion, but can you give an example of circumstantial evidence that is strong, excluding confessions by the kidnappers. I agree, to solely convict someone of murder by that alone is dangerous considering their character and criminal history. CCTV footage is yet to be presented to the court. I don't know if you're aware of this, if you are, what is your opinion of Dewani meeting up with Tongo to give him money. Dewani looked very happy, even elated when they meet face to face, they then proceed into a room where there is no cameras and the gift is made. This is a still from the video, the court will have access to the full cctv footage.

Does this look like a grief stricken and traumatized man who just a day before endured a gun hijacking, his life threatened and his wife found murdered? When he thought he was back safely in England and free from suspicion he was still doing fine, but when he is accused of orchestrating the hijacking and murder of his wife and should be brought back to SA to answer questions, he suddenly has a breakdown. So how does that work, breakdown brought on by being a suspect, not by what happened on 13 November, 2010? Dewani hadn't thought it through obviously.

Display of Emotion varies through period of grief depending on person. Again weak circumstantial evidence.

Yes I have seen this video and what surprises me is that after receiving only 1000 rand instead of the promised full amount there is no further contact between the two.

There is also circumstantial evidence helping dewani where the video rec of the hotel shows the front desk staff are seen talking about the expensive helicopter ride.

Because dewani was married to the victim he has good reason to be around the victim during the crime.

If want look at stronger circumstancial evidence look at the Hannah graham case. Even that case without any DNA evidence might actually fall apart.

I thing the SA PD investigators are really useless otherwise it would have been quit easy to build a strong case if what they r saying is true.


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[Truthy]

This is called weak circumstantial evidence. IMO, it is the worst kind of evidence to convict someone on, because there is a strong chance an innocent might spend a long time behind bars. Evey we few years we hear about these kind of stories about convicted prisoners getting released because the true culprits at caught.

The only real evidence is the confession by the driver. No one can collaborate to this. He walks out with 1000 rand , a equivalent of 100$ and says he was short charged. If the drivers claims r true he would have black mailed diwani for the rest of the money. The driver could have been used as bait by the investigators.
This leads to strong possibility of driver having ulterior motives.

I just hope that stronger evidence is found or revealed against dewani or the prosecution should just stop this charade
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I had read there are texts from Dewani's phone also. I am sure he isn't going to spell out the word murder in them though, but I don't think anyone expects them to say that. But if he is talking about his "surprise" happening that night, I think that will blow the balloon explanation out of the water.

 

[Truthy]

Wow, the hitman dies of brain tumour.


http://www.enca.com/south-africa/anni-dewanis-honeymoon-hitman-dies