South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[Tortoise]

Thinking...thinking...I posted earlier that there is something the defence isn't happy with for them to make this much trouble. Is this to do with contamination of the knife by placing it on the bed to photograph it? That could mean someone's blood DNA was on the knife which shouldn't have been.

 

[Interested Bystander]

There is so much other evidence that the axe was used to murder the family that the knife DNA probably isn't a big issue for anyone other than Botha. I suspect he wants the knife evidence thrown out because there is some suggestion that HvB may have used it on Marli. If Marli's blood is found on it HvB is for the high jump.

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-23-lifting-evidence-crime-scene/

Van Breda trial day 23 – lifting evidence from the crime scene

Very interesting write-up of today in court by Tracey Stewart. Well worth a read.

 

[Soekie]

Thank you Tortoise. The little window above the garage is the bathroom window

Those pics Soekie posted earlier have been removed but I made a mental note of the room diagrams and have made my own drawing of it. (Excuse the bad drawing skills!)

The one on the left is how HvB's room was depicted, and the one on the right is how I believe the beds would have been positioned, because the wall with the balcony isn't wide enough for two double beds. It's the balcony shown in the following photo, at the front of the house with the garages. In fact, I've just realised it was a single balcony door, not a double one as I've drawn it. The parents bedroom also had its bed positioned on the same corresponding wall.

photo link http://lekkerblog.co.za/take-a-look...murder-house-in-de-zalze-stellenbosch-photos/

 

[L2L]

I'm thinking, what a mess! If only this was televised we could get a better feel of what's happening. Botha does have a way of intimidating the witnesses, he did the same in the Dewani trial and was never pulled up for it, btw. The witnesses become flustered and agree with him even though they probably don't. :facepalm: It took a while for Galloway to interject.

I'm reminding myself of what J Desai said, he's an experienced judge, not a jury.
Botha working too hard to convince the judge where there are reasonable explanations or enough proof he can't deny or cast away.

Thinking the same. Some consolation though from Desai"s comment re being a judge, not a jury so I'm pretty sure he sees through Botha's bullying tactics; H a hopeless witness - why aren't these experts better prepared? Why so many mistakes made at the scene? Wish Galloway would make her presence felt more often. In spite of all that and more, I'm sure HvB is going away for a very, very long time!

 

[L2L]

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-23-lifting-evidence-crime-scene/

Van Breda trial day 23 – lifting evidence from the crime scene

Very interesting write-up of today in court by Tracey Stewart. Well worth a read.

Thanks, IB, interesting and encouraging that she found H a credible witness.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks, IB, interesting and encouraging that she found H a credible witness.

What helps is that she fills in some of the gaps. So H was not as inept as it seemed and she feels Desai is on top of the case. It is such a pity this case was not televised. Short tweets can easily be misleading.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

#CapeStorm does not stop Van Breda trial from continuing on Wednesday

Henri van Breda's defence counsel‚ Piet Botha‚ has reassured Judge Siraj Desai that his three-hour cross-examination on Wednesday that seemingly had no point will eventually reveal something of huge significance - but only after lunch.
.....
Desai stroked his moustache‚ Botha's colleague Matthys Combrink scratched his head with his pen and‚ for most of the morning‚ Henri van Breda played with his ring like a fidget-spinner.
......
Desai also joked about his‚ Combrink's and Botha's baldness by saying‚ "We three should all be wearing beanies in this weather.”

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...-Van-Breda-trial-from-continuing-on-Wednesday


LOL these journos (Tanya Farber) have got Botha pegged and a great sense of humour, as does J Desai! The big build up and then Botha produces nothing of importance! Just mind games with the witnesses but J Desai is very much awake, he's no Masipa!

It's noted uncle Andre du Toit is listening intently............ for the state's mistakes or Henri's? I hope he wakes up to the truth! :sigh:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Found pics of the Van Breda home - The four-bedroom house, described as a “modern Cape Vernacular-style home” on a past listing. The 865m² property has four bathrooms and a pool. Unfortunately with the Sunday Times after several views have to sub/pay.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundayti...rest-and-one-offer-for-Van-Breda-murder-house

Is this the T.V and 'sound system' HvB claims he, Martin and Rudi watched Star Trek 2 from 10pm-12.10am on a Monday night, 26/1/15?
That's just a T.V with 2 tiny speakers!! There are no visible speakers on the wall or floor or near the lounge!! Trying out a new surround system, my foot!

http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/So...de-the-Stellenbosch-axe-murder-house-20150515

 

[L2L]

#CapeStorm does not stop Van Breda trial from continuing on Wednesday

Henri van Breda's defence counsel‚ Piet Botha‚ has reassured Judge Siraj Desai that his three-hour cross-examination on Wednesday that seemingly had no point will eventually reveal something of huge significance - but only after lunch.
.....
Desai stroked his moustache‚ Botha's colleague Matthys Combrink scratched his head with his pen and‚ for most of the morning‚ Henri van Breda played with his ring like a fidget-spinner.
......
Desai also joked about his‚ Combrink's and Botha's baldness by saying‚ "We three should all be wearing beanies in this weather.”

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...-Van-Breda-trial-from-continuing-on-Wednesday


LOL these journos (Tanya Farber) have got Botha pegged and a great sense of humour, as does J Desai! The big build up and then Botha produces nothing of importance! Just mind games with the witnesses but J Desai is very much awake, he's no Masipa!

It's noted uncle Andre du Toit is listening intently............ for the state's mistakes or Henri's? I hope he wakes up to the truth! :sigh:

Thanks for the link, Prime. Nearly fainted when I saw the words 'little bucket' being placed, only to read that it was for a leak in the roof!! Huge storm outside apparently! Loved the bit where J.Desai tells Botha that much of what he is saying is not going anywhere! He's on the money this judge! Unlike you know who!

 

[Tortoise]

That TV room is also at the rear of the house, furthest point away from the road, across which the neighbour heard arguing. HvB's bedroom is closest to the road. I wonder if the argument took place in HvB's bedroom, and was between Rudi and HvB.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I thought it was a glass shower cubicle inside the bathroom. The other thing is I think it might be the en suite bathroom to the parent's bedroom rather than HvB's. Only because they showed a photo of the parent's bedroom.

Yes, it is the shower cubicle with glass walls. You can see the shelf just underneath the shower window and the tiled step to the right of the cubicle. The bedrooms of the parents, boys and Marli all had 2 double beds plus an en suite. The layout of these rooms would all probably have been much the same.

 

[JudgeJudi]

That TV room is also at the rear of the house, furthest point away from the road, across which the neighbour heard arguing. HvB's bedroom is closest to the road. I wonder if the argument took place in HvB's bedroom, and was between Rudi and HvB.

In my post #966 - where I outlined the discrepancies between the two statements I said:

IS: Martin went to bed at about 9:00. Henri and Rudi went to bed at 11:00.
PE: After the movie, Martin, Henri and Rudi said goodnight.
[/I]As Martin went to bed at 9:00, only Henri and Rudi could have watched the movie.

An initial statement usually contains more truth than one given later. However the later one is usually much longer with a lot more detail, and a lot more lies, particularly when the accused is guilty. Once the lawyers have seen the obvious problems with the first one, they try and get around them as best they can. The same happened with OP's 2 statements.

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM

H a hopeless witness - why aren't these experts better prepared? Why so many mistakes made at the scene?

He wouldn't have been prepared for such a detailed XX. He was extremely incompetent at the scene. I make some allowances for LE - underpaid and undertrained - but Hitchcock was truly appalling. The failure to take more blood swabs when there were so many victims can't be excused. However, he still took plenty of samples and hopefully they will be enough.

The DNA testing is going to be critical evidence and I have confidence this expert will have done his job professionally.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Back in court,both legal teams here & Henri, waiting for Judge Desai then Adv G will start her re-exam of Hitchcock

Hitchcock takes the stand again, Adv G starts her re-exam of her witness

 

[JudgeJudi]

There is so much other evidence that the axe was used to murder the family that the knife DNA probably isn't a big issue for anyone other than Botha. I suspect he wants the knife evidence thrown out because there is some suggestion that HvB may have used it on Marli. If Marli's blood is found on it HvB is for the high jump.

Well someone used a knife on Marli, and until I hear of forensic evidence proving that there was a black intruder in the house, it can only be HvB.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thinking...thinking...I posted earlier that there is something the defence isn't happy with for them to make this much trouble. Is this to do with contamination of the knife by placing it on the bed to photograph it? That could mean someone's blood DNA was on the knife which shouldn't have been.

Yep, Henri's or the black intruder's.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Hi friends. I'm back in court for the triple axe #VanBreda murder trial. We are currently listening to the evidence collector.
Witness name is Hitchcock. Adv Galloway asks H how evidence was collected. H photographed Capt. Joubert as he took samples.

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

H: there are different pieces of evidence so different specialists in each piece of evidence such a foot prints, blood spatter

H: everyone on the scene was doing the respective investigations they were required to do on the scene

H I did the DNA touch test on the side not touching the bed - the side facing upward

H: I took the photos and was present at all times that Joubert was collecting 113-117 samples

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: hands up photo of Joubert taking samples- he is wearing protective clothing and gloves while taking samples and being on scene

G: on this exhibit u see the box in the bag- u have done that with every piece of evidence collected - H yes

G: produces actual evidence collection kit and asks Hitchcock to demonstrate how he uses the kit

Adv B: unusual in re-examination to start using evidential material?

Judge Desai it arises from your cross examination on the kit. B: I didnt have access to it before?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

G asks H to demonstrate how he uses evidence taking kit (gloves,etc) h tears packet open and runs through contents...Multiple forms,SAPS plastic ziploc bag,2 swab taking devices,each having unique no.,vile of sterile water.


https://twitter.com/Traceyams

H: each kit is sealed he tears it open when collecting a sample. Inside there is an instruction booklet, there are 3 papers

H: a white, pink and green form. Evidence bag plastic 50X20cm it has an identification number printed on the bag