South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

[JudgeJudi]

JJ, do you think Botha will throw the towel in? Is it all up to Henri or can Botha make that decision?

I posted on this earlier this afternoon. No, Botha can't make that decision.

Just to add to the above, Henri's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

See post 934.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I have a collection of pics of Rudi and he's always smiling. It just breaks my heart every time I look at them.

[url]http://www.sa2cn.net/uploads/150824/2-150R4120954I5.jpg[/URL]

 

[JudgeJudi]

Impact blow to Rudi #VanBreda resulted in blood spatter on lampshade, window sill, bedside cabinet. Aso outside wall as it went thru window.

Henri #VanBreda's version is he stood in slightly open bathroom doorway when heard blows. Spatter shows he was next to bed, Joubert says.

Joubert now dealing with his examination of the grey shorts.

Comparison between Henri #VanBreda's version and bloodstains: spatter shows close proximity to Rudi and Martin, not in slightly ajar doorway.

The position of Henri in his version is not consistent with the spatter on his grey shorts and white socks, says Joubert.

Spatter to shorts and socks inconsistent with Henri #VanBreda's version. Movement of duvet not explained, nor why Rudi's body@bathroom door.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-37-20170912

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

We are back from tea adjournment

J: dealing with his examination of the grey shorts now

J: in comparison with Henri's statement

J: his statement compared with the blood stain patterns identified

while I was inside the toilet I heard a noise from outside and heard it was coming from the room,I opened the toilet door slightly

J is quoting his plea explanation on witnessing Rudi's attack and watching his father come into the room and be attacked

J: Henri opened door slightly, exposure of blood shedding event was minimal

J: position of Henri in his version is not consistent with the splatter in his grey shorts and his white socks

J: the spatter stains on shorts and socks place henri in close proximity to the attack

Henri has offered no explanation of the position of the duvet. Position of Rudi doesnt support position of Rudi near entrance of the bathroom. Henri says Rudi was just lying on the bed

Injuries sustained on Martin indicate he was suprised and initiated to the right side of Martin

Henri's statement - after assualting my father the person went outside and assualted my mother in passage

Henri- I could not see the passage from where I was

J: On Henri's version, his exposure to blood shedding events behind slightly open door would have been minimal

Reading from Henri's statement when he was attacked by the laughing attacker

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Now we are dealing with Henri's grey shorts

We are comparing Henri's statement to the actual blood evidence on his grey shorts.

J: Henri's story is 'inconsistent' with bloodstains..

J: "Splatter bloodstains place Henri in close proximity of blood sources of Rudi and Martin."

I'm quoting here...J: "The blood stain evidence and post mortem of Martin DO NOT support Henri's statement."

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Henri- I grabbed his right arm with my left and pulled him and felt him stab me in left side of my body and I hit the person

Henri: with blunt side of the axe and he stabbed me and left and I took the knife out and he started to run

Desai goes back- the blood stains observed at the door frame support Henri's version that he did not see Teresa being attacked

Blood stain evidence on the knife does not support henri's evidence re his altercation with intruder

Blood on bathroom floor suggests that the blood of Henri was transferred to the bathroom floor

Henri doesnt mention in his statement that he went back to the bathroom

Blood stain on bathroom floor suggest that blood of rudi, henri and Teresa was washed off in the shower,inconsistent with henris version

J reads out henris plea re throwing the axe at the attacker, running after him, tripping and falling, assume he left out back door

J: BSP, cast off doesnt support Henri's version, throwing the axe. pattern was created by an object in control of the hand

flow patterns and drying time of blood on skin do not support Henri's version, significant movement of henri;s upper body would have disturbed the flow on his upper body


https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

J: blood in shower from R,H&T may have been washed off in shower but Henri said he did not return to bathroom after incident.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Blood stain evidence on knife does not support Henri Van Breda's version of events, Joubert says.

Blood stains on the bathroom floor suggest that the blood of Rudi, Henri and Teresa was washed off in the shower, which is again inconsistent with Henri's statement.

Blood found in shower indicates blood covered objects washed/cleaned. Henri #VanBreda was @ entrance of bathroom in bloodshed incident.

Henri's statement says he did not return to the bathroom after the incident.

Henri said he did not touch anyone in the house after the incident.
Joubert says that is inconsistent with blood evidence.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-37-20170912

I'm thinking toast ... burnt toast.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

BSP on the floor of bathroom doesnt support henri's statement transfer patters indicate objects covered with blood transferred to the floor of the bathroom- he doesnt say he returned to the bathroom after leaving after Rudi and martin were attacked

Blood stains detected on the shower floor are not consistent henri's version, again he doesnt say he returned to the bathroom

Events surrounding the night is inconsistent with the events identified in BSPA

Events pertaining with 138 suggest movement and interaction

j: the victims were attacked in short period of time and the grey duvet was moved after Rudi had been moved or dragged

No evidence suggests that Rudi being mobile or conscious

J: events of falling downstairs by Henri is inconsistent with the flow patterns of blood on his upper body

J: position of Henri during the events in the bedroom is inconsistent and not supported with the stains on his shorts and socks

J: the spatter blood stains place henri in close proximity of Henri, rudi and Teresa

J: my conclusion that the evidence does not support the version of Henri but I cannot rule out the possibility of staging

Staging is directing evidence away from the perpetrator

J: I took photographs myself and used photos taken by Hitchcock

J: I work alone in the evidence recovery laboratory


https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Henri said he did not touch anyone in the house after the incident. J says that is inconsistent with blood evidence.

The blood evidence in shower is what J uses to support this.

Now we turn to Henri fainting or passing out after the event.

J says Henri's statement of fainting on stairs is inconsistent with flow patterns on chest and L arm.

NB��JOUBERT: "It is my conclusion that the evidence does NOT support the actions/events described in Henri's statement."

 

[JudgeJudi]

Captain Marius Joubert testifies that bloodstain patterns DO NOT support Henri #VanBreda's version of events.

Events of fainting and falling downstairs by Henri is inconsistent with the flow patterns of blood on his upper body, says Joubert.

"It is my conclusion that the evidence does not support the actions/events described in Henri's statement." - Joubert

I cannot rule out the possibility of staging, says Joubert.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-37-20170912

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

J: I work alone in the evidence recovery laboratory

Galloway asks: measurements of blood spatters with reference to grey shorts were "very small" how far are u?

J: the smaller the droplets are the shorter distance they would travel

J: I took the samples from the floor of the shower myself

J: My intial training was crime scene evidence collection


(Botha can't go on about cross contamination between colleagues, J works alone.)

 

[LouP1209]

Surely we can hear the sounds of prison doors closing beind HvB? :jail:

Thanks again for the updates - they don't make easy reading, how one human could do that to another is beyond my comprehension :sick:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

J to protect contamination of the shower floor from the rest of the blood in the bedroom I wore a new PPE before I stepped into the shower and that was done with the sole purpose of not contaminating the shower

Galloway referring to a note written down by Hitchcock and asking for his comment

Note: due to minute traces of possible blood, document of a photo will increase possibility of no DNA profile

Best to take photograph in dark to enhance the luminol

In this case I decided not to take a photograph as you would need to keep on spraying the blood which would dilute the DNA

J: I didnt want to decrease the possibility of a DNA profile by continuing to spray it with Luminol

Galloway u refered to the door frame which supports the version of Henri that teresa was attacked outside the door

What is your views with where Henri was at the time teresa was attacked

There is no way that the spatter could travel that far (where Henri says he was) to land on Henri's shorts and socks

Thus is version of where he was standing at the time teresa was attacked is inconsistent with the blood spatter on henri's clothes


https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Galloway asking Joubert questions about his findings...J says Teresa was attacked in H&R doorway or just outside in hallway.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Smaller droplets do not travel as far as bigger droplets, says Joubert, explaining sizing of the blood drops found.

Galloway asks what steps Joubert took to prevent contamination in shower.
Joubert says to protect contamination of the shower floor from the rest of the blood in the bedroom he wore a new PPE.

He explains shower scene was a poor reaction. He didn't want to decrease the possibility of a DNA profile by continuing to spray it with Luminol.

Henri's positioning when Teresa was attacked (he said he was still in the bedroom): Joubert does not support his version.

Only spatter on shorts and socks. He said he was not in view and that she was in passageway. By no means would spatter travel that far, around bedroom wall and deposit on him.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-37-20170912

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Galloway asks about Teresa's attack, how would your opinion be affacted if at all, if Teresa was already on the floor?

J: Teresa was on the floor already when force was applied resulting in that particular spatter

G: your evidence regarding the mixture of Teresa's DNA on shower floor and shorts? Can it only be read as Henri and Rudi?

J: Regarding blood in shower it can also only be Henri and Rudi's blood and it is also a shower used by both of them

J: but the mixtures on the shorts tells me that, that blood most probably is coming from an object, like for instance the axe itself

J: it can also mean, if that mixture containing Teresas DNA on the shorts can also mean that it is one of the two brothers

Galloway what would u expect to find on the axe, where there was a struggle for possession of the item

J: you would expect to find some sort of disturbance in the blood stain on the axe

J: but I cant exclude the possibility that henri grabbed the attackers hand that explains why blood on handle was not disturbed

 

[PrimeSuspect]

[video=youtube;nMh368ATKm4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMh368ATKm4[/video]

 

[JudgeJudi]

Joubert says Teresa #VanBreda's blood wouldn't be able to travel from passage into bedroom where Henri stood. Believes she'd been in view.

Mixture blood samples in shower indicate that blood was coming from an object.

Expected axe (after struggle) to have some sort of disturbance in stains on handle. He said he grabbed the attackers hand, could explain why it wasn't disturbed.

Throwing of axe: instrument in motion, it would release spatter from the axe.

Would have expected to find cast off patterns (elliptical shape) higher on the wall than what I observed.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-37-20170912

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Galloway - u place henri in close proximity to Rudi and Martin J: yes Galloway what evidence was in the bathroom which may support

Henris view-if you look at the bathroom door and the wall there is no splatter where Henri says he was standing and u would expect there to be spatter around where he was standing.

Galloway- u said u are of the view that cast off pattern does not support Henri's version of throwing the axe

J: First understand the mechanism that goes with an axe, when you have an instrument in motion the blood adheres to it due to force of being thrown would result in the blood being projected I would expect to find cast off patterns with elliptical shapes much higher on the wall than what I observed. The axe would fling blood off in the area

Desai is looking at the axe again, notes its a fairly light axe

galloway - regarding the blood stain of where the axe may have been thrown- was there enough blood left on the axe

Galloway if there was a long trail of blood left by the axe, Galloway is handing up a photograph of below the hole in the wall

G: below the hole you can see a trail of blood which appears to have hair in it, J says it could be consistent with an axe

J: could be consistent with an axe thrown in an uncontrolled manner

Galloway - what would make you think the scene might be stage -

J: I can say the throwing of the axe was part of staging the scene

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

G to J: Through your evidence, you place Henri in close proximity to Rudi & Martin during attack. J: That is correct.

The court is now looking through crimescene photographs while Capt. Joubert is testifying.

Galloway asks about captain saying he cannot rule out staging of crimescene...

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

J: I dont have any explantion for the reason of 138 being moved after Rudi

J: I have no explanation for the knife being moved to under the bed

G: any comments on the plea explanation versus the statement taken from henri by the police

Adv B: if G intends asking the witness about discrepancies of two statements, that is something this court must decide

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Captain Joubert says he believes the axe being thrown against wall could have been a staged event.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Galloway is really being persistent that HvB staged the crime scene!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Henri's version was that he was in the bathroom, door slightly ajar, but there was no spatter on the door or either side of walls, says Joubert.

In trail of blood below the hole in wall, there is hair left.

The court is now looking through crime scene photographs while Joubert testifies.

Throwing of axe may have been to stage the scene.

With regards to Rudi being moved or the knife under the bed, Joubert says he has no explanation.

Adv Botha says if Galloway intends asking the witness about discrepancies of two statements (plea and police statement), that is something this court must decide.

Court adjourns until 14:15.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-37-20170912

 

[Fluffykins]

JJ and Prime, you are amazing. Thank you both so much!

:tyou: :tyou: :tyou: