Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[Ruthbullock]

The photo of the big ravine I shared earlier is within Chemin de l'Impératrice and is called 'Gouffre du Malaplatte', 'Gouffre' is a cave in french. It seems to be a stopping point on the trail, but if ED went off piste and accessed it from the wrong point obviously this could be a fatal mistake. Its unclear how long the ravine runs for or if there are any signs or barriers at the top.

There is a viewing point of a section of the cave along the trail

I am struggling to find the suggested full route that ED had taken to reach this ravine.
I have looked and looked through past posts and via google and AllTrails and don’t see how she hit the section being referred to. If anyone can post a link to the full walk (sorry if you have already done so and I just can’t find it)

 

[RickshawFan]

The photo of the big ravine I shared earlier is within Chemin de l'Impératrice and is called 'Gouffre du Malaplatte', 'Gouffre' is a cave in french. It seems to be a stopping point on the trail, but if ED went off piste and accessed it from the wrong point obviously this could be a fatal mistake. Its unclear how long the ravine runs for or if there are any signs or barriers at the top.

There is a viewing point of a section of the cave along the trail

After all these photos, I'm so wanting to go on this hike.... The whole loop.

 

[RickshawFan]

The photo of the big ravine I shared earlier is within Chemin de l'Impératrice and is called 'Gouffre du Malaplatte', 'Gouffre' is a cave in french. It seems to be a stopping point on the trail, but if ED went off piste and accessed it from the wrong point obviously this could be a fatal mistake. Its unclear how long the ravine runs for or if there are any signs or barriers at the top.

There is a viewing point of a section of the cave along the trail

I'm thinking access is from the road and not from the trail ED planned to be on. There's probably a trailhead on that road.

 

[sundaaaay]

I'm thinking access is from the road and not from the trail ED planned to be on. There's probably a trailhead on that road.

I think there is a route through here which isn’t on google maps but I seen on google earth.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I’ve got to say physically I’m struggling with the theory she got to the ravine, I just think it was physically impossible to reach that point, nor was it directly on either route that has been put forward (nor was pic de s, so I’m aware ED doesn’t strictly follow a loop). I was trying to find how far would have been possible if we gave ED an extra couple of hours walking either way how far realistically would/could she have travelled? It’s not my area of expertise as it was many years in the past I last hiked and used a map.

 

[sundaaaay]

I’ve got to say physically I’m struggling with the theory she got to the ravine, I just think it was physically impossible to reach that point, nor was it directly on either route that has been put forward (nor was pic de s, so I’m aware ED doesn’t strictly follow a loop). I was trying to find how far would have been possible if we gave ED an extra couple of hours walking either way how far realistically would/could she have travelled? It’s not my area of expertise as it was many years in the past I last hiked and used a map.

This cave could be on her route, but maybe she would have had to continue the following morning to reach there. If you search for "Chemin de l'Impératrice" in Google maps you will see it is beside a route through the woods which continues towards Port de la Glere. This cave is actually only 1 hour 43 minutes walking from Refuge de Venasque.

 

[Ruthbullock]

This cave could be on her route, but maybe she would have had to continue the following morning to reach there. If you search for "Chemin de l'Impératrice" in Google maps you will see it is beside a route through the woods which continues towards Port de la Glere. This cave is actually only 1 hour 43 minutes walking from Refuge de Venasque.

I think I have managed to locate the start of the path near the hospice. The logic in my head is that whilst she could have made it to the hospice (if we assume she was at the passage at 4.00, and not the summit), I don’t think as daylight will have been vanishing- even if you needed to head off track, you wouldn’t head to the woods (or not that deep into the woods along a path). I just think she would bivouac closer to the hospice (knowing France was in lockdown and no one would be travelling as they have a curfew). I completely get the theory of she could have fallen in a crevice and agree it’s possible as well, I just don’t want the thread to get blinkered into one theory without considering every aspect of that theory.

 

[otto]

I've got to say physically I'm struggling with the theory she got to the ravine, I just think it was physically impossible to reach that point, nor was it directly on either route that has been put forward (nor was pic de s, so I'm aware ED doesn't strictly follow a loop). I was trying to find how far would have been possible if we gave ED an extra couple of hours walking either way how far realistically would / could she have traveled? It's not my area of expertise as it was many years in the past I last hiked and used a map.

We seem to be looking farther and farther away from where she was last known to be. By all accounts, the plan seems to be to go from the Safeguard summit to the Port de Venasque and then the refuge. Of course, there are many other options, but that was her plan.

The photo was sent at 4PM. There is no cell service at the Refuge de Venasque, so she was probably at or near the summit when she sent the photo. That gave her 30 minutes to hike to the Port de Venasque where there are several trail options. It would have been 4:30 PM, and she had one hour until sunset.

This shows the trail options:

OpenTopoMap - Topographische Karten aus OpenStreetMap

It is a 30 minute hike to the refuge. That would leave her with 30 minutes of daylight. There is no evidence that she arrived at the refuge.

Given all of these things that we more or less know, my guess is that she had an accident near the Port de Venasque and tumbled down the mountain - possibly into the lake.

 

[sundaaaay]

I too thought and accident near the Port de Venasque is the most likely scenario but as time goes on I think ED successfully slept that night somewhere and had an accident the next morning, off piste, so her location could be far away from the initial search area.

 

[otto]

I too thought and accident near the Port de Venasque is the most likely scenario but as time goes on I think ED successfully slept that night somewhere and had an accident the next morning, off piste, so her location could be far away from the initial search area.

Still, even if she slept in the open without a tent, she was at the Port de Venasque trail options at 4:30 PM with one hour of daylight. She probably needed to replenish her water supply. What would she do next?

 

[sundaaaay]

Either stay at Refuge de Venasque (I know they say she didn't stay there but they could be wrong), or else find an old shepherds hut to spend the night or a place to biouvac off the beaten track somewhere, which could be anywhere.

 

[otto]

Either stay at Refuge de Venasque (I know they say she didn't stay there but they could be wrong), or else find an old shepherds hut to spend the night or a place to biouvac off the beaten track somewhere, which could be anywhere.

It's also possible that there's no evidence she stayed at the refuge because she had an accident within an hour of sending her last photo.

 

[sundaaaay]

It's also possible that there's no evidence she stayed at the refuge because she had an accident within an hour of sending her last photo.

Yeah of course, I agree with y’a

 

[RedHaus]

I am struggling to find the suggested full route that ED had taken to reach this ravine.
I have looked and looked through past posts and via google and AllTrails and don’t see how she hit the section being referred to. If anyone can post a link to the full walk (sorry if you have already done so and I just can’t find it)

Hi @Ruthbullock. Way back this image was posted and unfortunately I do not have the source readily available. It was all over the media stories early 0n - or a least after the 70 year old hiker that gave her a ride recalled the route (alternative?) she "told" him, translation issues aside.

Anyhow, that yellow loop in the middle of the image, below, was her intended route, per DC, if I recall correctly. Whether she got to the loop and whether she took it clockwise or anticlockwise, who knows at this point. But the Chemin de l'Impératrice is on the left side of that yellow loop. So if she did make it past the Refuge de V, then she could have gotten to the C de l'L that evening (clockwise) or perhaps 11/23 (anti-clockwise).

Also, I think it was Otto who posted an image up thread that marked where ED may have ended up at 5:30pm if she passed the Refuge de V with an anti-clockwise loop.

 

[RedHaus]

Also, I think it was Otto who posted an image up thread that marked where ED may have ended up at 5:30pm if she passed the Refuge de V with an anti-clockwise loop.

Snipped for focus

Here is Otto's post where he took a stab at figuring out where ED would have ended up IF she got past the Refuge de V late afternoon on 11/22 and started her French loop in an anti-clockwise direction. At 5:30pm (sunset) she would have been in a valley, if I am interpreting these maps correctly. Note: someone later clarified D125W is a "road".

What does D125W mean? ... from the map you posted. If it means 45 minutes, which is unlikely, we could pinpoint exactly where she was a 5:30 PM. View attachment 276715

 

[otto]

Hi @Ruthbullock. Way back this image was posted and unfortunately I do not have the source readily available. It was all over the media stories early 0n - or a least after the 70 year old hiker that gave her a ride recalled the route (alternative?) she "told" him, translation issues aside.

Anyhow, that yellow loop in the middle of the image, below, was her intended route, per DC, if I recall correctly. Whether she got to the loop and whether she took it clockwise or anticlockwise, who knows at this point. But the Chemin de l'Impératrice is on the left side of that yellow loop. So if she did make it past the Refuge de V, then she could have gotten to the C de l'L that evening (clockwise) or perhaps 11/23 (anti-clockwise).

Also, I think it was Otto who posted an image up thread that marked where ED may have ended up at 5:30pm if she passed the Refuge de V with an anti-clockwise loop.

This is the distance from the summit to Port de Glare - per the map (which looks like a Dailymail map).

 

[RickshawFan]

Many many posts back someone shared a video where ED is talking about the requesting food thing. It does seem a regular thing she does (the psychology of it I struggle to understand, unless she is so poor at languages, it’s a simple way to start conversations enroute)

To me it just says dangerously dependent. It's one thing if this happens in town, but when you're in the backcountry???? Putting yourself in a place where you will need a rescue (here, with food) is just....

 

[RickshawFan]

I’ve got to say physically I’m struggling with the theory she got to the ravine, I just think it was physically impossible to reach that point, nor was it directly on either route that has been put forward (nor was pic de s, so I’m aware ED doesn’t strictly follow a loop). I was trying to find how far would have been possible if we gave ED an extra couple of hours walking either way how far realistically would/could she have travelled? It’s not my area of expertise as it was many years in the past I last hiked and used a map.

BBM These days, that would be considered "extremely experienced and responsible"; using a paper map along with the technology is the sign of someone who knows what they're doing!

 

[Zoomy]

If anyone has a spare hour or so to watch E&D's youtube channel of their last joint trip which lasted sixty days, you will see that they appear to exist on an evening meal of one small saucepan of lentil pasta shared between the two of them! On several occasions DC does not seem overly enthusiastic about it, but ED laughs it off.

On the final day of their trip and they have returned back to their camper van, DC seems elated to point out that they now have a saucepan each of food, instead of one!

I assume that they must have been eating reasonably well during the day though, as neither of them appeared to look malnourished on their return.

 

[RickshawFan]

Snipped for focus

Here is Otto's post where he took a stab at figuring out where ED would have ended up IF she got past the Refuge de V late afternoon on 11/22 and started her French loop in an anti-clockwise direction. At 5:30pm (sunset) she would have been in a valley, if I am interpreting these maps correctly. Note: someone later clarified D125W is a "road".

With the "w" on, we concluded D125W is a trail. I'm thinking it's single-track. And D125 is double-track (e.g. old cart road).