Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

[RickshawFan]

I am not going to say anything more about the science of this situation, as I find it difficult to hear juried academic literature with clear conclusions characterized as part of a "circular debate" and won't engage at that level. It was merely brain science (physiology). I apologize if the information led to so much unwanted discussion.

At the time I weighed in, some of Esther's typical hiking provisions had been posted. Perhaps these were in error. I'm not going back through the dossier to read them, if any clues are there. I think someone posted from her Insta about her previous provisions and I posted some science regarding the brain. It's all on the second thread. Also, there were fewer people on the thread at the time, and newcomers may well wish to read what was said by me (and a couple of others) as it is a cautionary story.

Which is why I posted it. I do appreciate that some people found it valuable.

Actually, it was fantastic. So helpful. That's why I remembered it.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Actually, it was fantastic. So helpful. That's why I remembered it.

Yah me too. Ate eggs for brekkie the next day as I recall

 

[Grouse]

Actually, it was fantastic. So helpful. That's why I remembered it.

It was good, it wasn't a circle debate

 

[RickshawFan]

You would hope the refuge had a proper forensic investigation for signs of Esther like hair, urine, fingerprints, even something obvious like discarded food packaging. I’m not sure that it’s ever been reported whether that was done or whether it was just a visual search.

IMO the best place to find evidence would be the privy. She could have stopped in there even if she didn't go in/stay at the Refuge.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

IMO the best place to find evidence would be the privy. She could have stopped in there even if she didn't go in/stay at the Refuge.

Exactly. She could not leave “no trace”, but it depends on how throughly they checked. Were her finger prints on door handles or taps?

 

[sundaaaay]

Exactly. She could not leave “no trace”, but it depends on how throughly they checked. Were her finger prints on door handles or taps?

It doesn't seem that there was any forensics happening and the dossier didn't mention it. It's always frustrating when they let a potential scene become contaminated. Even just knowing she reached there at least we know she probably went missing on the french side.

 

[Grouse]

Exactly. She could not leave “no trace”, but it depends on how throughly they checked. Were her finger prints on door handles or taps?

Think I read up thread a post from @Hatty , a retired police officer, that it would be unfeasible to do a full forensic analysis in such a place.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Think I read up thread a post from @Hatty , a retired police officer, that it would be unfeasible to do a full forensic analysis in such a place.

Certainly wouldn’t be straightforward but you’d think they could at least swab the loo seat or something. Check the litter bin for food packaging. Was there a fireplace, was that checked? I wish we knew. It’d be so useful to know whether she got there.

 

[Grouse]

IMO the best place to find evidence would be the privy. She could have stopped in there even if she didn't go in/stay at the Refuge.

Would the evidence not have been flushed away?

 

[Grouse]

Certainly wouldn’t be straightforward but you’d think they could at least swab the loo seat or something. Check the litter bin for food packaging. Was there a fireplace, was that checked? I wish we knew. It’d be so useful to know whether she got there.

DC stayed in it for two nights, it's weird trying to imagine how that must have felt. He would have known her habits and have been looking for signs that LE might not have picked up on. He said there was no sign at all.

 

[RickshawFan]

Sorry but I don’t find the “chia seeds episode” strange at all. It’s happened to me a number of times, especially when travelling, having to ask the cashier about a discrepancy in pricing only to be told that you have to have a loyalty card in order to get the discount. It’s not always obvious.

I totally agree with you on this one... There are so many contexts for believing you had the price and then having the cashier ring up something different. Making a fuss would be normal, since the price wasn't what you thought. Not always, but often, there's some rule or other, like 2for1, "members only..." "only goldstar members" [that automatically excludes me, lol].

 

[ZaZara]

I made a thread for Françoise Dasnois:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/spain-françoise-dasnois-49-colungo-sierra-de-guara-july-12-2009.557855/#post-16598416

 

[RickshawFan]

Would the evidence not have been flushed away?

No flush; sewage contaminates. Generally, you'd find privies. These days, they are composting privies: marvels of natural processes. Some with fab views (owing to the aroma-dispersing benefits of wide open skies). I have often found composting toilets to be waaaaay cleaner than running-water toilets.

Here at Rocky Mountain NP
Pyrenees toilets are likely to be like this (though I don't know for sure).

 

[Grouse]

No flush; sewage contaminates. Generally, you'd find privies. These days, they are composting privies: marvels of natural processes. Some with fab views (owing to the aroma-dispersing benefits of wide open skies). I have often found composting toilets to be waaaaay cleaner than running-water toilets.

Here at Rocky Mountain NP
Pyrenees toilets are likely to be like this (though I don't know for sure).

Sounds a good idea from the user's perspective. Not sure I'd want to be the person who has to dig it all out and cart it away though. Probably on minimum wage as well.

 

[10ofRods]

Yah me too. Ate eggs for brekkie the next day as I recall

That makes my day!

 

[RickshawFan]

Sounds a good idea from the user's perspective. Not sure I'd want to be the person who has to dig it all out and cart it away though. Probably on minimum wage as well.

It doesn't get carted away. Sometimes, they use worms, other times they use duff/leaves/whatever scattered into the mix. Maybe all of the above.
In the Rockies, they might sometimes have to carry it away on mules, but by then, it's just compost. On the AT, someone comes every once in a while and puts the toilet seat on the other of the two holes in the privy. So one batch of compost is setting up, while the other gets input.
In the backcountry, the preferred method for guys is to disperse pee and not use the composting toilets for it.
If you haven't used one yet, you'd be amazed how un-aromatic many of these are. Very clean.
There are many different kinds of these privies.
I found a photo of the kind with a great view. Again, Rocky Mountain National Park:

 

[10ofRods]

IMO the best place to find evidence would be the privy. She could have stopped in there even if she didn't go in/stay at the Refuge.

I wish one of our dog experts would weigh in. If there was no item of Esther's given to the dogs, how would they know her byproducts in the privy apart from anyone else's? Maybe a dumb question, but I'd like to know how they would tell the difference between Esther and any other person.

Can dogs indicate "a person peed here 3 days ago"? I can grasp that they'd be able to detect the sex of a person (but do they need two different dogs??) Truly curious.

 

[Grouse]

It doesn't get carted away. Sometimes, they use worms, other times they use duff/leaves/whatever scattered into the mix. Maybe all of the above.
In the Rockies, they might sometimes have to carry it away on mules, but by then, it's just compost. On the AT, someone comes every once in a while and puts the toilet seat on the other of the two holes in the privy. So one batch of compost is setting up, while the other gets input.
In the backcountry, the preferred method for guys is to disperse pee and not use the composting toilets for it.
If you haven't used one yet, you'd be amazed how un-aromatic many of these are. Very clean.
There are many different kinds of these privies.
I found a photo of the kind with a great view. Again, Rocky Mountain National Park:

Thanks, that's good to know. It wouldn't be a very nice job if it did have to be carried down the mountain, and then where would it go? Can't help thinking some of the energy companies are missing a trick here, there must be some way of extracting energy from it. Not sure if you may already know this, but in WW2 in the UK all of the fat used in domestically produced margarine came from reprocessed (human) sewage sludge.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I wish one of our dog experts would weigh in. If there was no item of Esther's given to the dogs, how would they know her byproducts in the privy apart from anyone else's? Maybe a dumb question, but I'd like to know how they would tell the difference between Esther and any other person.

Can dogs indicate "a person peed here 3 days ago"? I can grasp that they'd be able to detect the sex of a person (but do they need two different dogs??) Truly curious.

No, no dogs required for that bit. They could take toilet samples and compare it with Esthers DNA (eg from hair, skin or clothes found in the campervan). Likewise fingerprints.

 

[RickshawFan]

Thanks, that's good to know. It wouldn't be a very nice job if it did have to be carried down the mountain, and then where would it go? Can't help thinking some of the energy companies are missing a trick here, there must be some way of extracting energy from it. Not sure if you may already know this, but in WW2 in the UK all of the fat used in domestically produced margarine came from reprocessed (human) sewage sludge.

The enclosed Rocky Mountain privy I put ^^^ actually has a solar attachment, but I'm not sure what it's for. Maybe to keep the worms from freezing?