Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #4

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All the brilliant sleuthing and analysis of the trails here re how EDs route on the 21st/22nd could have deviated from her plans leads me to more questions re the self harm theory. Whilst it's clear that ED does experience emotional/psychological struggles to some extent she is also very health and body conscious with her diet, yoga and general fitness. I can't assume the psychology but would someone who values and tends their body so strictly be willing to harm it? The struggle between the physical and emotional.
 
At what point did Esther tell Dan the date she was returning home?

Is it even alluded to in any of her postings or messages that she would be seeing him soon?

I can understand a language misunderstanding that she wasn't sure when rather than if they were going to get back together "Esther said she and Dan were taking a break and she didn’t know if they were going to get back together, but wasn't this conversation rather close to the return date to still be unsure?

I don't have a date for the conversation but somewhere in the back of my mind I'm thinking it was the week prior?
 
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Tortoise said:
At what point did Esther tell Dan the date she was returning home?

Is it even alluded to in any of her postings or messages that she would be seeing him soon?

I can understand a language misunderstanding that she wasn't sure when rather than if they were going to get back together "Esther said she and Dan were taking a break and she didn’t know if they were going to get back together, but wasn't this conversation rather close to the return date to still be unsure?

I don't have a date for the conversation but somewhere in the back of my mind I'm thinking it was the week prior?
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8 days 12/13th Nov before according to DCs dossier when she stayed overnight with Laura at the refuge. Not sure when/how she told DC when she would be returning and was a question I asked upthread. No one answered so I assume nobody knows.
 
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BoraBora said:
Just a quick pondering - if ED and DC were separated, why do you think DC hasn't said this? Because it makes no difference, and would indeed fill in some blanks.
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So as I wrote this, DC had addressed it in his latest FB post. I believe what DC is saying, as ED's messages back this up. Some of her loving messages are included in the dossier, and they sound very much like they are still together - certainly not the kind of messages you would write if you were "on a break".

View attachment 282158

ETA map[/QUOTE]

WRT the earlier discussion about the map included in the dossier - that particular map is under the "onward route" section, meaning her onward route from the Refuge de Venasque - with the Refuge being the starting point of that particular route. So basically ED was intending to move in an anti-clockwise direction once she got to the Refuge. The flag on the map at Hotel Hospital de Benasque was to be ED's end point, not her beginning point (even though it was also, roughly, her beginning point - but that is irrelevant wrt this particular map, as DC was only mapping out her onward route). So the map makes no reference to her movements on the 21st, and given that DC already knew about her movements that day (and his info ties in with what Ballarin said about where he dropped her off), there's no reason to think she deviated from any intended plans - at least up to her last point of contact on the 22nd. After that, who knows.
 
IMO we must keep in mind that when we read Dan’s words...that’s his grief speaking.

In coping with his loss, he has chosen to believe certain things.He believes that Esther was happy and their relationship was solid, but her own words both before she left, on the trek, and from a witness, have said otherwise.

More than once he has made light of the terrain...a fact that local people and experienced hikers on this thread have certainly described as otherwise.

The professional search party spokesmen have opined that there are many places where she might have fallen and be hidden from sight. Dan disputes this too.

"A happy, experienced, well-equipped and fit young woman went missing in an area with clear paths and mostly open terrain.”

Therefore, IMO, I assess his remarks with empathy but also with skepticism.

Dan chooses to believe the one option where she would have a chance to be alive and still in love with him....it’s the one option that provides some small comfort.
 
CharlesSwann said:
Looking at their blog for the first time. Immediate impression: this was their business rather than a lifestyle - or rather, a lifestyle that became a business. It's all very carefully managed. The dogs, for example, clearly serve an important PR function, as did ED's charity cycle that immediately got her into the papers. They seem to court publicity however they can and I suspect that DC manages all that side of the business. That is obviously going to take a good deal of drive and therefore some stress - especially with regard to how long they can keep it up. (Personally, I don't know how they do it. I like Alpine hiking as much as anyone, but a 3-day/2-night camping trek seems like quite enough. After that it gets repetitive and frankly boring.)

I don't know if the November trip was to 'keep up the business' or for ED to take some personal time to think about things. Both motives may have psychological consequences.

Keeping up the business also relies on the strength of their relationship. If there were problems with that, as suggested, then the BBC feature might have provided additional pressure, by 'locking her in' in just at a time when she might have been getting fed up of being managed by DC.

As to the disappearance, there are a hundred possible scenarios and it all comes down to probabilities based on intuition seeing as there is no solid evidence for anything. The key indicator, for me, is the bizarre double ascent of Sauvegarde. It's hard to imagine why anyone would climb the same mountain twice on successive days when the reasons for climbing a mountain are a) achievement, b) the view (if you're lucky) - both of which she satisfied the previous day. Maybe it's a good spot for lammergeiers, but as far as I know she's not a birdwatcher. And I can't believe she arranged to meet someone at the top. For one thing, they would be visible to each other as they hiked up. She must have had some personal motive for going up again.
I'd like to get away from the suicide theory but more and more things seems to be pointing towards it.
Click to expand...

This is an excellent point about the Blog and all they do as being a BUSINESS not just a relationship. Lots to think about on that score...
 
tarabull said:
Thanks Liz...

Apologizing again, as I didn't realize there had been an...explanation.

Search for Esther Dingley: Spanish police say it's 'impossible' and all but give up | Daily Mail Online

<modsnip>
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To be clear the dog walker felt "FLOBBED OFF" by LE when she made the report to them FWIW of course I wasn't VICTIM BLAMING.

Snipped from the link...

...The young dog walker, called Lucia, said she first saw the light on in the van when she took her dog Tipo for a walk at about 7pm on December 2 in Benasque, Spain.

However, she became increasingly concerned when saw the figure laying down in the back when she popped out a second time at 10pm.

In an exclusive interview with MailOnline, Lucia said she was 'fobbed off' when she called the Spanish police.
 
On November 18, on the Wadam college FB page, they received a very nice marketing promotion for the Puppy books. So there was certainly a lot going on from the business angle just at the point when Esther pulls back from posting 7 to 40 photos of her daily adventures.
 
I still think she’s in one of the lakes but I’m open minded with what happened but I take DC’s opinion of what he thinks must have happened on board. He knows her best and has been at the location and watched the search. Third party involvement is still a real possibility, lone female hikers have been targeted before.
 
CharlesSwann said:
The key indicator, for me, is the bizarre double ascent of Sauvegarde.
Click to expand...

The dossier suggests she climbed twice because it wasn’t about "peak bagging" although I’m inclined to think it was because it was the only place she was sure there was phone signal. She would have been unaware at the time that there was good signal on the descent into France. I agree though it does seem strange.
 
Looking for ED is like looking for a needle in a haystack in this landscape. However there is one good thing and that is the fact she was carry lots of high tech products and we know what she was carrying. When the snow melts her items are durable and could be found. I think this is possibly the only way to move the investigation forward without any evidence of foul play and no body.
 
A key indicator IMO is that Dan is back home, working hard to get all this publicity. Esther keeps extending her trip, and right before she disappears, posts very little just at the time she knows they have all this attention.

On the 21st there’s over a 26 hour period where she makes no contact. Isn’t the Cabane where she stayed a short hike from a hotel with WIFI? So if she wanted to communicate, wouldn’t she have been able to?
 
sundaaaay said:
I still think she’s in one of the lakes but I’m open minded with what happened but I take DC’s opinion of what he thinks must have happened on board. He knows her best and has been at the location and watched the search. Third party involvement is still a real possibility, lone female hikers have been targeted before.
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I agree with your points about DCs view of EDs disappearance, and believe he is capable of considering the terrain dispassionately, but........
I keep thinking about the possible new trails discussed, and how they fit with the drop off point from the lift with the grandfather, and EDs possible return point from those trails. The ski resort is in my mind, along with the nearby road, and the full car park in the week or so before ED went missing.
 
CharlesSwann said:
Looking at their blog for the first time. Immediate impression: this was their business rather than a lifestyle - or rather, a lifestyle that became a business. It's all very carefully managed. The dogs, for example, clearly serve an important PR function, as did ED's charity cycle that immediately got her into the papers. They seem to court publicity however they can and I suspect that DC manages all that side of the business. That is obviously going to take a good deal of drive and therefore some stress - especially with regard to how long they can keep it up. (Personally, I don't know how they do it. I like Alpine hiking as much as anyone, but a 3-day/2-night camping trek seems like quite enough. After that it gets repetitive and frankly boring.)

I don't know if the November trip was to 'keep up the business' or for ED to take some personal time to think about things. Both motives may have psychological consequences.

Keeping up the business also relies on the strength of their relationship. If there were problems with that, as suggested, then the BBC feature might have provided additional pressure, by 'locking her in' in just at a time when she might have been getting fed up of being managed by DC.
Click to expand...

I edited your excellent post for focus, because it poses some really important issues.

Their lifestyle had become their business. A business to be profitable must be managed. When two partners in love and in business ...work together it can often upset the power balance in the relationship. Someone takes responsibility and is the “boss.” Demands are made because they are necessary. The other partner can start to feel controlled, overwhelmed, resentful.

I can easily believe that Dan is telling the truth and that Esther and her hiking friend are telling the truth as well. From Dan’s point of view, it was just a mood, he points to her loving texts and believes whatever was bothering Esther passed quickly. Is it really uncommon for one partner to have no idea that a relationship is ending? I’ve certainly have known a few who were astounded.

Maybe Dan is correct...but my imagination and experience lead me to wonder...

There were several weeks between Esther’s FB posts about her unhappiness and struggle with some big issues...and her overnight with a stranger where supposedly she confided that her relationship may be over. Although weeks have gone by, she supposedly feels the same. IMO I think that stretch of time is significant and does not indicate a fleeting mood.

I believe the witness because what she says is collaborated by Esther herself in posts before she left.

Why the loving texts? IMO, Dan was overwhelming her with texts and calls. IMO she went on this trek to try to figure out her future and perhaps he was inserting himself way too frequently. “Thank you for all the messages getting me on my way.” I read with that with a little sarcasm...IMO as an intrusion on her own timing. “Cant wait to read all your messages.” Really? ...then IMO she could have hiked closer to the hotel the night before. I think she said what he needed to hear to placate him, hoping he would ease up.

Did she put the phone on airplane mode to avoid the necessity to deal with his texts?

I don’t doubt Esther loved Dan...but they were nearing forty...and their carefree lifestyle was now becoming a business publicized by Dan everyplace he could push it. The dogs were gone...yet the publicity painted a picture that they were still caravaning together. ‘For some reason, I’m no longer with these dogs”...says Esther.

What would she do, if she didn’t want to hurt him or hurt his new venture selling books...but now wanted something else for herself? I don’t doubt such an educated brilliant woman could manage on her own...but how to do it, without damaging Dan or the books in her wake? Perhaps she kept extending her time away because she could find no easy solution. As experienced as she was, she knew the weather could turn any day. What we see as strange in her itinerary perhaps was just preferable to heading home.

These are just random musings of mine.
 
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sundaaaay said:
The dossier suggests she climbed twice because it wasn’t about "peak bagging" although I’m inclined to think it was because it was the only place she was sure there was phone signal. She would have been unaware at the time that there was good signal on the descent into France. I agree though it does seem strange.
Click to expand...

It seems that it's not a case of just ticking it off a list for her. It doesn't seem to be unusual for her to go back to the same mountain more than once. From facebook post on 12th Nov:
I'd never been to Egea or up to Trubon before but after being shown it by some locals on Sunday, I found myself going another 3 days in a row up to this peak 2492m
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