Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[RickshawFan]

They did own a 4 bedroom house, they were renting it out to students. In the UK at that time it was a popular thing to buy property ( "Buy To Let" mortgage) as an investment after faith was lost in the stock market after the 2008 crash.

Are you saying “renting” is the same as “renting out”? From the context I didn’t make that leap.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm sure it's been suggested before, but a minor fall that damaged Esther's phone could have rendered her incommunicado and (if she had no conventional compass) compromised her ability to navigate. It's quite possible she spent the 23rd with a damaged phone, seeing no other hikers on the (locked-down) French side of the mountains, before coming to grief.

It was also below freezing. If the phone was in the pack instead of against her body in her clothes, she may have rendered it inoperable.

Periodic safety message…Your body heat keeps your phone viable when it’s cold. Keep it down your shirt, pants, cozy inside insulated jacket pocket…

 

[Grouse]

Are you saying “renting” is the same as “renting out”? From the context I didn’t make that leap.

No, to me (UK vernacular) renting means renting from someone (ie you're a tenant) whereas "renting out" is the opposite (ie a landlord). I think this may have got a bit lost in some previous posts but I'm sure they were renting out and owned the property.

 

[Zoomy]

Snipped for focus.
I thought they owned a house. But they were renting?

@RickshawFan: The blog that otto posted yesterday, was about another couple, who were renting and left the UK to live in a camper van. I also was confused at first, and thought if was ED and DC, til I read through to the end.

Snipped for focus.
I thought they owned a house. But they were renting?

 

[RickshawFan]

Oh, okay. Yes, that got me confused.

 

[Grouse]

Maybe GPS doesn't work on a phone if it can't lock onto satellites? AFAIK GPS can get quite dicy in the mountains because of terrain interference.

Pretty sure GPS don't work very well without satellites.

 

[Grouse]

Yes, that’s my understanding, too. DC’s shared blog with ED would be off limits on WS, because DC is a victim, witness, and family.

DC’s shared blog with ED has been widely quoted on this thread with no intervention or comments from admins that I have seen.

 

[Grouse]

Why the cops would rule someone with a touring bike who often hitched lifts and had access to buses and trains out of travelling a mere 100 miles.

Can I kindly ask (again) why you raise that particular point? Why would LE be ruling in or out DC travelling 100 miles? To where? For what purpose?

 

[OEJ-JEO]

People have understandably looked at it, as was the idea, and asked why ED had carried 4 or 5 warm jacket but no compass or socks.

(snip)

... and the fact that she was out in sub-zero temperatures without winter kit (n.b. she may have died as a direct consequence of that, so it is important regardless of how she died).

I'm sure this has been covered before, but it's common to use a layering system to provide for a variety of conditions, so her "4 or 5 warm jacket(s)" consisted of a base layer, a mid layer, an outer layer and/or waterproof, plus a warm down jacket. It's not clear that the kit list was exhaustive, so it's possible she had spare socks.

To me, her clothing looks quite adequate for survival (if not comfort) in the relatively mild late autumn weather she'd been encountering, with a bias towards light weight. It's true that conditions can change quickly in the mountains, but this wasn't an extreme expedition in the depths of winter, and it seems that the weather was good at the time of her disappearance.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Can I kindly ask (again) why you raise that particular point? Why would LE be ruling in or out DC travelling 100 miles? To where? For what purpose?

I dont understand this point either. DC is not a suspect and never has been. Likewise, the LBT have been supportive and helpful from what I've seen, having followed Esther's initial disappearance from the beginning. I'm not sure why either DC or the LBT have come in for criticism on this thread, or veiled criticism may be more accurate.

We need to wait patiently for more news and hope they find Esther and her belongings, to provide some answers for DC and her family.

JMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note - Post Respectfully

Insulting other members and personalizing comments is strictly against the rules. If you disagree with another member's point of view, do so in a mature and civil manner.

If you find yourself being flamed or insulted by another member, please do not dignify that person with a response. Notify a moderator and let us handle it.

Best,
Tiff

 

[Hatty]

It's one thing for cyber crime investigators to look at social media for evidence of a crime, something entirely different for investigators to look at forums for ideas about what to investigate.

Correct!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

We need to wait patiently for more news and hope they find Esther and her belongings, to provide some answers for DC and her family.

JMO

Exactly this, fingers crossed something else is found soon, so the gendarmes can (hopefully) reach a conclusion. Though, after this long, I’m not sure how accurate a post mortem would be?

 

[RickshawFan]

Pretty sure GPS don't work very well without satellites.

The implication in this case is that GPS on ED's phone was unreliable. This point responds to comments ^^^ that reference GPS on the phone for pinging, but for route-finding as well. In the mountains, you can't rely on GPS on your phone. It actually can point SAR away from you (this happened in a White Mountains case; SAR went on a wild goose chase based on a GPS signal, totally in the wrong direction; and, yes, it became a fatality).

 

[Sillybilly]

I can’t think of any British, let alone European, instances where that has happened.

<rsbm>

OT but just an FYI .. UK LE reads here as well. We recently had a request from LE in the UK to have a specific member contact them. While WS does not release information to LE unless served with a subpoena, we do pass along such LE requests to the member involved, including the contact info for the requesting agency and it's up to the member to respond or not.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The implication in this case is that GPS on ED's phone was unreliable. This point responds to comments ^^^ that reference GPS on the phone for pinging, but for route-finding as well. In the mountains, you can't rely on GPS on your phone. It actually can point SAR away from you (this happened in a White Mountains case; SAR went on a wild goose chase based on a GPS signal, totally in the wrong direction; and, yes, it became a fatality).

I just looked up how airplane mode affects GPS and it’s a bit of a grey area. Do we know what sort of phone Esther used?

https://www.howtogeek.com/194421/what-does-airplane-mode-do-and-is-it-really-necessary/

 

[OEJ-JEO]

Do we know what sort of phone Esther used?

It's in the dossier:
https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf
A Redmi Note 9 Pro.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

OT but just an FYI .. UK LE reads here as well. We recently had a request from LE in the UK to have a specific member contact them. While WS does not release information to LE unless served with a subpoena, we do pass along such LE requests to the member involved, including the contact info for the requesting agency and it's up to the member to respond or not.

That rang a bell so I just checked back and Tricia messaged me to contact the police a few years ago. I nearly had a heart attack! It doesn’t say which case and I can’t remember now, but I never did need to contact them in the end. Phew!

 

[Grouse]

I just looked up how airplane mode affects GPS and it’s a bit of a grey area. Do we know what sort of phone Esther used?

https://www.howtogeek.com/194421/what-does-airplane-mode-do-and-is-it-really-necessary/

IME GPS is a big battery drainer. If I'm out on a hike and I'm on a route that I don't need it for ( if paths are straightforward and/or weather conditions clear I am usually confident just to navigate with maps) I will always turn it off (though I think on some phones you can't actually turn it off). Airplane mode also turns off bluetooth and wifi, but you'd be daft to have those turned on up a mountain anyway. So that just leaves the telephony side, and personally I'd just leave that on though there's often not a signal anyway. Beyond that might as well just turn the phone off altogether?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It's in the dossier:
https://42cc80b7-be3b-41e3-a85b-18b...d/4addd9_d8c55b489c6f445b96d6324dd882f5a1.pdf
A Redmi Note 9 Pro.

Never heard of Redmi, I wonder where they got them. Just noticed this in the dossier also:

Her phone also had the Maps.Me app installed which Esther is proficient at using for planning and assessing route distances and timings. This app also allows geolocation and uses maps downloaded to the phone so can be fully utilised without a mobile signal. This is the same app that Esther and Dan had used to navigate for portions of their 80-day summer hike in the Alps.