Speculation on the Second Cross

[magic-cat]

You know, Magiccat, everything that Padilla is throwing out there is speculation and rumour. Most of it is designed to fit his theory that KC disposed of the body on the 27th. The problem with this is that speculation and rumours aren't facts, nor are they evidence. So what do we have?

1. A photo of KC wearing a cross.
2. A photo of Cindy wearing a cross.

That's it. That's the totality of evidence on two crosses.

Leonard Padilla has not been right about one thing since he's interjected himself in this case. From the first day he involved himself he has interfered with an ongoing police investigation - he bailed KC out when LE was trying to sweat her out and it is obvious from CA's LE interview that he told her that KC's friends were involved in drugs, which is what he said on tv when he first explained his "theory" to NG. CA quoted those very words that Padilla used. Now first, that throws a cloak of wrongdoing on innocent people who had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with this, other than to know and be friends with KC. It also has given LE another expensive non productive avenue that they had to investigate so that the defense doesn't have an opening to discredit LE.

So he bails her out even though LE was working her and claims that once she gets a manicure and a hot shower she'll want to talk to Leonard Padilla. Well, let me be blunt here - anytime someone has lawyered up, the the time for chit chat and shooting the breeze with bail bondsmen is over - so anyone with half a brain would know that he would not have an opportunity to yak with the defendent. KC would have been instructed not to discuss the case with anyone, much less a bounty hunter/bail bondsman.

Then after some sort of epiphany occurs, he decides she's guilty, revokes the bond and then sets out to offer rumour and innuendo the other way. The dna "proves LA is the father" - it does no such thing. "Cindy and KC had a fight June 15th". Unless he was there June 15th he couldn't possibly know this. "She dumped the body in the dumpster at TL's apt, she dumped the body out by the airport, she dumped the body in the dumpster at Amscot on the 27th, she bought two silver crosses at JC Penney's on the 27th" and these are just a few of the rumours he's floated on national tv. It's one thing for us to speculate and discuss the case on a private forum, but it is something entirely else to appear on national tv and speculate and spread rumours - this can taint the jury pool, it gives the defense opportunities to discredit LE and it costs LE and the Prosecutors' office valuable resources in time and money in tracking down and discrediting these rumours. By involving himself in this he's caused material harm to the case and the reputations of innocent people which is morally and ethically wrong.

Now, by insisting that the body was disposed of on the 27th, despite all evidence to the contrary in the forensics report, he is going to send 8000 people on a wild goose chase in the swamps around the airport when according to the best evidence she was nowhere near the airport in her car at anytime on or after the 27th so whether she purchased silver crosses on not on that date, it doesn't matter. She didn't have her car on the 27th or after that day.

Like Lou Smits or Darnay Hoffman or John Karr or Michael Tracy, these wannabe Sherlock Holmes , who know nothing about forensic science, meddle and muddy the waters, send people on wild goose chases and cost LE valuable money that could actually go to a lawful prosecution in these cases. You know how the defense is going to use this at the trial? "So, 8000 people searched for Caylee Anthony for two days and no one found anything, isn't that reasonable doubt that she isn't dead?" If they don't find a body, this is exactly how this is going to play out.

Inpatient, he could be the nicest guy in the world but I really doubt that LE would tell him anything and he is causing harm to their case.

Thanks, Lexington, I hate it when these kinds of people involve themselves in cases like this. They make it just that much harder for LE to do an effective job.

If you want to discuss Leonard Padilla, Magic cat, start another thread. I'd be perfectly willing to discuss Leonard Padilla, but not on this thread or under this topic.

It seems to me that Mr. Padilla is the source of this information, and that he has been well discussed throughout this thread. Yes?

The fact is that Mr. Padilla has his sources, and he is tight with LE, tight enough that they FLEW detectives to Cali. to do his interview about what info he knew. It would appear that he IS the subject of THIS thread, since it is he who introduced us to these crosses that we are now contemplating, so discussing him in that context would seem perfectly appropriate to me, right here where we are.

For myself, I believe that there must have been a cross purchased, and the fact that LP stated that Cindy told HIM that it was purchased for Caylee, but Caylee was DEAD when it was purchased, led them to believe, and likely investigate, the possibility that Casey purchased another cross like the one that Cindy stated that she bought for Caylee. OR Cindy was just lying to cover for Casey and Casey had in fact bought that cross for her own self to protect her from her own demons.

 

[Cerenity2u]

I for one, find this thread very interesting. The title of this thread could not be any clearer "Speculation on the Second Cross". The information about the topic of this thread came from LP on the NG show, which many of us here do indeed watch. I for one believe LP has his reasons for tossing out little pieces of information, and I also believe that he is well respected by law enforcement. Why shouldn't we be able to discuss the possibility of a second cross, and put our own minds to work on possible theories? Isn't that what this thread is all about? Sometimes theories turn into facts...sometimes a theory will lead to new, helpful ideas that may not have been thought of otherwise. To the OP of this thread, thank you for giving us something new to talk about.

 

[Cerenity2u]

It seems to me that Mr. Padilla is the source of this information, and that he has been well discussed throughout this thread. Yes?

The fact is that Mr. Padilla has his sources, and he is tight with LE, tight enough that they FLEW detectives to Cali. to do his interview about what info he knew. It would appear that he IS the subject of THIS thread, since it is he who introduced us to these crosses that we are now contemplating, so discussing him in that context would seem perfectly appropriate to me, right here where we are.

For myself, I believe that there must have been a cross purchased, and the fact that LP stated that Cindy told HIM that it was purchased for Caylee, but Caylee was DEAD when it was purchased, led them to believe, and likely investigate, the possibility that Casey purchased another cross like the one that Cindy stated that she bought for Caylee. OR Cindy was just lying to cover for Casey and Casey had in fact bought that cross for her own self to protect her from her own demons.

:clap: I could not agree with you more on everything in your post. I share your exact thoughts on the matter. LP specifically stated that Cindy told him the cross was purchased for Caylee...he stated it on national TV. I don't see Cindy denying this, or stating otherwise. As a matter of fact, I have not seen Cindy discredit anyting LP has said lately....HMmmmm.

 

[Baznme]

I for one, find this thread very interesting. The title of this thread could not be any clearer "Speculation on the Second Cross". The information about the topic of this thread came from LP on the NG show, which many of us here do indeed watch. I for one believe LP has his reasons for tossing out little pieces of information, and I also believe that he is well respected by law enforcement. Why shouldn't we be able to discuss the possibility of a second cross, and put our own minds to work on possible theories? Isn't that what this thread is all about? Sometimes theories turn into facts...sometimes a theory will lead to new, helpful ideas that may not have been thought of otherwise. To the OP of this thread, thank you for giving us something new to talk about.

"You're Welcome". LOL

 

[Blink34]

And I hope nobody (pros and laymen alike) jumps in and messes up a crime scene.....the other night on Nancy Grace, every single guest came out against throngs of people searching for Caylee's body because of the possibility that they'll trample on evidence. Any "contamination" of a crime/burial scene ALWAYS works in favor of the defendant.

That is a really good point- especially given the time elapsed and the terrain. TES "mapper extrordinaire" is the best their is, but given the amount of people, it needs to be managed well, and I know our team is up for the challenge, and appreciates the time and effort by all volunteers.

 

[magic-cat]

:clap: I could not agree with you more on everything in your post. I share your exact thoughts on the matter. LP specifically stated that Cindy told him the cross was purchased for Caylee...he stated it on national TV. I don't see Cindy denying this, or stating otherwise. As a matter of fact, I have not seen Cindy discredit anyting LP has said lately....HMmmmm.

Thank you very kindly...:blowkiss:

 

[reefshadow]

♣ He has been right many times. You must have missed it when he told us in advance about the "shocking" news we would receive shortly, just prior to the chloroform discovery being announced. He has also dropped some tidbits here and there along the way, a trail of crumbs so to speak.

Respectfully snipped. Personally I think that was a complete coincidence, as he has continued to claim more forthcoming "shocking" news. I'm still waiting...

I think if LP really knew about the chloroform or other confirmed evidence he wouldn't be the least bit shy about spilling the beans before everyone else. Look at all the other "information" and predictions he's put out there. We can all have varied opinions on him but I think almost everyone can see that he loves the media. He would have had *details* if he really knew anything substantial. Someone in the media spotlight who has juicy info and wants to use the media to garner attention doesn't just sit on info like that.

What are the other times he's been right? I still remember him insisting on Casey's innocence and Caylee being alive when first appearing on NG. yeah, he's changed his tune, but for me it was as plain as the nose on my face that the baby was dead and the mother probably guilty. It didn't leave me with a favorable first opinion of LP as far as accuracy and logic goes, and he still continues to put forth theories that are suspect and many of them frankly ridiculous IMO.

 

[kgeaux]

That is a really good point- especially given the time elapsed and the terrain. TES "mapper extrordinaire" is the best their is, but given the amount of people, it needs to be managed well, and I know our team is up for the challenge, and appreciates the time and effort by all volunteers.

Yep, it doesn't get any better than TES. I'm sure that Tim is experienced in how to manage volunteers, but I'm still worried about Nancy's guest's opinions.

God bless y'all for searching; I'm too far away to be there in person, but my spirit will be there. I want Caylee found, but oh, my heart just goes out to the one who will find her. I just can't imagine.

 

[Capri]

That is a really good point- especially given the time elapsed and the terrain. TES "mapper extrordinaire" is the best their is, but given the amount of people, it needs to be managed well, and I know our team is up for the challenge, and appreciates the time and effort by all volunteers.

OT, I know, but sending good thoughts & much luck :crossfingers: out to Blink & Ellieit and all those other TES searchers ( & Tim, of course). If anyone can do it, TES & group can.

 

[3doglady]

I don't think she's stupid. She refused to "voluntarily" hand the receipts over-----LE has targeted her child as the POI in this case, and as a mom, she may have felt she would have been disloyal to KC if she just handed them over------having said that, Cindy knows that LE can and does supeneo information daily. She just let the legalities play out, and that way KC can't accuse her of selling her down the river.

If my child "lost" my grandchild, me turning over the JCP receipt would the last of her worries.

 

[magic-cat]

If my child "lost" my grandchild, me turning over the JCP receipt would the last of her worries.

Me too...:furious:

 

[Bev]

Excellent point, Reefshadow. In any investigation, the provenance of the information is as important as the information itself. Unfortunately, I am not allowed to discuss the source of this information so there really is no way of judging the legitimacy of the information.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Excellent point, Reefshadow. In any investigation, the provenance of the information is as important as the information itself. Unfortunately, I am not allowed to discuss the source of this information so there really is no way of judging the legitimacy of the information.

Sorry Bev, I have reread through the posts, but am still unclear on what info it is that you are speaking of?

 

[gardenhart]

Sorry Bev, I have reread through the posts, but am still unclear on what info it is that you are speaking of?

I think Bev is referring to the fact that every time someone questions LP's theories, hints, claims, whatever you want to call them, several people complain that the thread has become a "bash LP" thread.

I agree with Bev. I don't think there's any logical way to determine the accuracy of information without looking at the source. But then attacking someone for making an argument about a source isn't very logical, is it?

It is possible to view LP as a possible source of good information but also a source of weak theories and bad speculation. Or both.

BTW, please correct me if my memory isn't accurate, but wasn't the "shocking news" supposed to be something to do with the dumpster?

 

[Pink Panther]

I remember that he talked about "the world being shocked" after the chloroform business came out. In fact, I remember thinking "what could be more shocking than what we know so far"???

 

[Bev]

Well, from what I understand, after having a thread about LP taken down, I cannot discuss him or his background. Now, I could be wrong, but that is the impression that I have.

You know, I don't know if we're at cross purposes here or not. I think that the evidence should lead us to a theory, instead of forming a theory and then fitting the evidence to the theory. Speculation is great because it opens doors to new ideas and solutions, but not being able to discuss the source of the information limits us in validating the information or judging its reliability.

What interests me in being an amateur detective and why I enjoy mysteries is starting with facts and then finding a solution to the mystery. This case (if it goes to trial) will be decided by circumstantial and empirical evidence - it will be a real battle for prosecutors to establish a timeline that is beyond reasonable doubt and then have the forensics fit the timeline. It will come down to expert v. expert. When people like LP interject and interfere with LE, I want to know why because generally all it does is open the door for the defense to cast doubt on LE's investigation. JMO.

 

[kgeaux]

If my child "lost" my grandchild, me turning over the JCP receipt would the last of her worries.

I love my children very much. I don't know HOW I would react if I were faced with the Anthony's situation. I do know I LOVE my children VERY MUCH. I would still love them no matter what they did. I might absolutely HATE what my child did, but I would never, ever, not under any circumstances, quit loving my child. I would remember their sweet little faces looking up at me while they nursed, their first words, their first steps, their sweet little baby breath, etc. And while I would not interfere with the police investigation by destroying/hiding evidence, I probably would make LE come with a subpoena to collect it........LE still ends up with the evidence, and I get to sleep at night if my child is condemned to death, knowing that all the legal avenues were followed, yet I still did not "help" LE to obtain the death penalty by freely handing over something LE could easily get from another avenue.

All of this talk about the receipt is moot anyway, since LE doesn't NEED the receipt from the Anthony home. George and Cindy didn't just fall off the turnip truck: they are well aware that not handing the receipt to police doesn't mean the receipt never comes into evidence! LE can, and I'm sure they HAVE, subpoena the info directly from JCP, along with video evidence.

Well, from what I understand, after having a thread about LP taken down, I cannot discuss him or his background. Now, I could be wrong, but that is the impression that I have.

You know, I don't know if we're at cross purposes here or not. I think that the evidence should lead us to a theory, instead of forming a theory and then fitting the evidence to the theory. Speculation is great because it opens doors to new ideas and solutions, but not being able to discuss the source of the information limits us in validating the information or judging its reliability.

What interests me in being an amateur detective and why I enjoy mysteries is starting with facts and then finding a solution to the mystery. This case (if it goes to trial) will be decided by circumstantial and empirical evidence - it will be a real battle for prosecutors to establish a timeline that is beyond reasonable doubt and then have the forensics fit the timeline. It will come down to expert v. expert. When people like LP interject and interfere with LE, I want to know why because generally all it does is open the door for the defense to cast doubt on LE's investigation. JMO.

I could not agree with you more. Excellent points.

 

[magic-cat]

I think Bev is referring to the fact that every time someone questions LP's theories, hints, claims, whatever you want to call them, several people complain that the thread has become a "bash LP" thread.

I agree with Bev. I don't think there's any logical way to determine the accuracy of information without looking at the source. But then attacking someone for making an argument about a source isn't very logical, is it?

It is possible to view LP as a possible source of good information but also a source of weak theories and bad speculation. Or both.

BTW, please correct me if my memory isn't accurate, but wasn't the "shocking news" supposed to be something to do with the dumpster?

It is perfectly acceptable to discuss the source, as long as all opposing opinions are also welcomed. It becomes another story altogether though, when several who share the same opinions deny the rights of the other's to also express their possibly different opinion on the subject. Then to call a close to ALL comments on the subject simply due to the fact that one does not agree with the opinions which are different than their own is unacceptable. YES let's all share our opinions of LP and YES let's analyze the information and the man to the 10th degree and hope that it gets us somewhere productive, but let's not have our say and then attempt to silence others who do not see things in the same light. I think that it is perfectly clear that there are people who do not like LP and there are others who make it their "board" mission to discredit him at any given opportunity. However, there ARE those of us who admire and respect the man, and we have as much right to our opinion and the expression of it as anyone who detests him.

 

[magic-cat]

I love my children very much. I don't know HOW I would react if I were faced with the Anthony's situation. I do know I LOVE my children VERY MUCH. I would still love them no matter what they did. I might absolutely HATE what my child did, but I would never, ever, not under any circumstances, quit loving my child. I would remember their sweet little faces looking up at me while they nursed, their first words, their first steps, their sweet little baby breath, etc. And while I would not interfere with the police investigation by destroying/hiding evidence, I probably would make LE come with a subpoena to collect it........LE still ends up with the evidence, and I get to sleep at night if my child is condemned to death, knowing that all the legal avenues were followed, yet I still did not "help" LE to obtain the death penalty by freely handing over something LE could easily get from another avenue.

All of this talk about the receipt is moot anyway, since LE doesn't NEED the receipt from the Anthony home. George and Cindy didn't just fall off the turnip truck: they are well aware that not handing the receipt to police doesn't mean the receipt never comes into evidence! LE can, and I'm sure they HAVE, subpoena the info directly from JCP, along with video evidence.




I could not agree with you more. Excellent points.

I am not so sure what I would do in their situation, and I pray to God that I never may have to find out. I do know that I am fairly certain that IF I was so minded to tamper with evidence, I most certainly would not be so idiotic as to TELL the police that I had done so. They give too much away that they are trying to hide...

 

[Pink Panther]

I am right smack in the MIDDLE with LP. I neither like him nor hate him. He's there. I'll watch and I'll listen. I haven't "figured" him out yet. So, one could say, I'm a neutral party to this conversation. I do believe that it should be left open. I love this place because people can express different opinions. I like to read them all.