Steve Thomas's Theory/Murder Timeline

[chlban]

I once read a book about the Charles Lindbergh Jr. kidnapping, and read the testimony of Nurse Gow. She stated that the whole household, after realizing that the baby was gone, and reading the ransom note, scoured the house looking in every closet and out of the way place, thinking that the situation could possibly be a joke.

That was, at least in part, because Lindbergh, who was a truly despicable human being, had played a "joke" on his wife and hid the baby prior to the actual kidnapping. That is also why some people believed he had a part in the kidnapping itself. Another "practical joke" gone bad.

However, the point is well taken. It would seem logical to me to seach everywhere. What is even stranger to me, though, is the claim that they never woke Burke up, yet Patsy stated that she looked in his room because JB sometimes slept in there. So, your youngest child is "missing" and you know that child sometimes went into her brothers room during the night, yet you don't wake up that brother and ask if JB had come into his room at all last night? Did he hear anything? Know anything at all?

That has never washed for me. What, one kid is missing and you're worried about the other one getting enough sleep? No way.

Unless, of course you alrady know full well exactly where JonBenet is and what happened to her.

 

[elannia]

Which is why everthing they said was just a lie to cover up what happened. Like burke actually being awake. They lied about it but he told the GR he was awake. He said he heard floors creaking and stuff during the night wonder if thats when the cover up and staging was going on

 

[CherCher]

That was, at least in part, because Lindbergh, who was a truly despicable human being, had played a "joke" on his wife and hid the baby prior to the actual kidnapping. That is also why some people believed he had a part in the kidnapping itself. Another "practical joke" gone bad.

However, the point is well taken. It would seem logical to me to seach everywhere. What is even stranger to me, though, is the claim that they never woke Burke up, yet Patsy stated that she looked in his room because JB sometimes slept in there. So, your youngest child is "missing" and you know that child sometimes went into her brothers room during the night, yet you don't wake up that brother and ask if JB had come into his room at all last night? Did he hear anything? Know anything at all?

That has never washed for me. What, one kid is missing and you're worried about the other one getting enough sleep? No way.

Unless, of course you alrady know full well exactly where JonBenet is and what happened to her.

I absolutely agree.
When my oldest daughter was out with friends one evening and wasn't home when I woke up for work at 5 am, I woke up the whole household. It wasn't a kidnapping situation (I hoped) but I was in a panic mode and even woke my 4 year old son up. She did turn up at a friend's house where she had spent the night, thank God, but I searched the house high and low and disturbed everyone.

 

[THE BUNK]

I absolutely agree.
When my oldest daughter was out with friends one evening and wasn't home when I woke up for work at 5 am, I woke up the whole household. It wasn't a kidnapping situation (I hoped) but I was in a panic mode and even woke my 4 year old son up. She did turn up at a friend's house where she had spent the night, thank God, but I searched the house high and low and disturbed everyone.

Yeah, that's the thing that bother's me.

People complain why the Ramsey's would use their own pen and pad to write the ransom note. But nobody ever wonders why John wouldn't be suspicious that this Ransom note brought shown to him by his wife, happens to be made from those very same materials.

Why would John not wonder whether Patsy may have made this note up and sent JonBenet somewhere just to be rid off her for a while?

Why doesn't John ask Patsy " Listen, Patsy. Be honest with me. Did you write this note? Did you do something to Patsy?"

Or heck, why not wake up Burke to find out whether this is some sick prank by all the children. JAR could have written the note when he was there. Maybe he gave Burke the idea.

Why does John automatically assume this is a real kidnapping?

 

[bettybaby00]

That was, at least in part, because Lindbergh, who was a truly despicable human being, had played a "joke" on his wife and hid the baby prior to the actual kidnapping. That is also why some people believed he had a part in the kidnapping itself. Another "practical joke" gone bad.

However, the point is well taken. It would seem logical to me to seach everywhere. What is even stranger to me, though, is the claim that they never woke Burke up, yet Patsy stated that she looked in his room because JB sometimes slept in there. So, your youngest child is "missing" and you know that child sometimes went into her brothers room during the night, yet you don't wake up that brother and ask if JB had come into his room at all last night? Did he hear anything? Know anything at all?

That has never washed for me. What, one kid is missing and you're worried about the other one getting enough sleep? No way.

Unless, of course you alrady know full well exactly where JonBenet is and what happened to her.

But Burke was asleep! "He was asleep, so he doesn't know anything, and we know he doesn't know anything cause he was asleep, but we didn't ask him cause he was asleep, but we know he doesn't know anything b/c he was asleep, and we didn't ask him if knew anything b/c he was asleep"

Makes perfect sense, yea? :facepalm:

And as far as looking for her, FW is the only one who looks through the house, including the basement calling out jonbenets name!

 

[otg]

All the discussion around whether or not Burke was awake, at what point he was awake, whether or not the parents knew he was awake, did they check on him while he slept, why didn’t they wake him to ask him questions, -- it’s all unnecessary and a complete waste of time. The 911 call proves he was awake while the call was made. Since BPD arrived at the house within minutes, that means he had to have hurried off to bed to begin his part in the charade pretending to have slept the entire time. When he was led through the gauntlet of house-guests to avoid being questioned, he knew not to ask any questions about what was going on. While he rode with Fleet White in the car, he knew not to ask any questions or talk about what had happened.

Regardless of how much involvement in JonBenet’s death you happen to believe Burke may have had, he was not oblivious to what had happened. He knew.

If you want to believe the Ramseys (and don’t we all want to believe them?), which version do you choose to go with? They have at different times claimed that they each (as well as separately) looked in and checked on him confirming that he was asleep. Then they changed the story to, “He had awakened, but they didn’t know it until he admitted it to the GJ.” At one point Burke claimed to have heard “noises” and “voices in the distance”. Patsy said at one time that she had screamed from the kitchen for John on the third floor, yet we’re supposed to believe that Burke just kept on sleeping. At some other point, Patsy claimed to have met John at the stairway on the second floor showing him the note as they yelled and talked about what to do -- while Burke just kept on sleeping. When news came out that his voice could be heard on the 911 recording, they had to admit that he had been awake at some point, but they couldn’t even decide within one interview when he was or how they knew. They even called back the interviewer afterwards to change their story one more time (I would suggest after they had discussed it with Lin Wood).

Here are a few of the details described by the Ramseys in that one interview (emphasis mine):

• "Burke knew something horrible had happened. He heard us screaming. He heard Patsy ...a woman in terror," John confessed. "We thought he was asleep but he wasn't. Burke was awake.
• "Burke was frightened. He had tears in his eyes. He knew something very, very wrong was going on."
• But now John has admitted to The ENQUIRER that Burke woke up before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 a.m. to summon police.
• ...they (John and Patsy) say they didn't find out Burke was awake the morning of the tragedy until he testified before a grand jury nearly two and a half years later.
• They say it wasn't until Burke's 1999 grand jury testimony that they found out he was awake before police arrived -- but was pretending to be asleep.
• "Yeah, he testified to that. We thought he was asleep but he wasn't," said John, who had told police their son slept through the tragedy.

And then there's this:

When asked when Burke woke up, John said it was after Patsy discovered the ransom note shortly after 5:30 a.m. Then he quickly changed his answer to say Burke woke up after the 911 call.
​

​

But then John changed his story again, calling The ENQUIRER as we went to press to say that Burke was awake BEFORE the 911 call. John told us:
​

"Burke recalled his mother screaming, 'Where's my baby?' and me saying, 'Calm down, calm down, we need to call the police.'"
​

John's admission that Burke was awake came after The ENQUIRER revealed to him and Patsy the details of our earlier exclusive report that Burke's voice is heard on an enhancement made of the 911 call. The youngster says, "What did you find?" and "What do you want me to do?"

​

John Ramsey tells his son, "We're not talking to you."

​

But Patsy still insists: "When I made that phone call, Burke Ramsey was nowhere in the vicinity of the telephone."
​

​

Yet all this is disagreement with what they wrote in their book DOI:

Both of us race to Burke's room at the far end of the second floor and find him apparently still asleep. Best not to arouse him until we figure out what's happening here, I think. He's better off asleep for now. I step into the hall.
​

The fact is that the Ramsey accounts of events around Burke, for whatever the reason, are not consistent. So using their accounts in speculation about what happened is useless. Look only at what is known:

1. Burke was awake and in the same room (whichever room that was) with John and Patsy when they called 911.
2. John and Patsy both knew he was in the room, he was awake, and he was asking them questions.
3. After the 911 call, Burke then went to his room and pretended to be asleep before BPD arrived several minutes later.
4. He also pretended to be asleep when the first responding officer looked in to check on him.
5. John and Patsy continued to maintain that Burke was asleep until proof was given them that he was not.
6. Even after these facts were known, the Ramseys claimed they had mistakenly thought Burke was asleep (lying in bed with his eyes closed), but that he “knew something very, very wrong was going on” because “he had tears in his eyes.”

Really?

 

[elannia]

All the discussion around whether or not Burke was awake, at what point he was awake, whether or not the parents knew he was awake, did they check on him while he slept, why didn’t they wake him to ask him questions, -- it’s all unnecessary and a complete waste of time. The 911 call proves he was awake while the call was made. Since BPD arrived at the house within minutes, that means he had to have hurried off to bed to begin his part in the charade pretending to have slept the entire time. When he was led through the gauntlet of house-guests to avoid being questioned, he knew not to ask any questions about what was going on. While he rode with Fleet White in the car, he knew not to ask any questions or talk about what had happened.

Regardless of how much involvement in JonBenet’s death you happen to believe Burke may have had, he was not oblivious to what had happened. He knew.

If you want to believe the Ramseys (and don’t we all want to believe them?), which version do you choose to go with? They have at different times claimed that they each (as well as separately) looked in and checked on him confirming that he was asleep. Then they changed the story to, “He had awakened, but they didn’t know it until he admitted it to the GJ.” At one point Burke claimed to have heard “noises” and “voices in the distance”. Patsy said at one time that she had screamed from the kitchen for John on the third floor, yet we’re supposed to believe that Burke just kept on sleeping. At some other point, Patsy claimed to have met John at the stairway on the second floor showing him the note as they yelled and talked about what to do -- while Burke just kept on sleeping. When news came out that his voice could be heard on the 911 recording, they had to admit that he had been awake at some point, but they couldn’t even decide within one interview when he was or how they knew. They even called back the interviewer afterwards to change their story one more time (I would suggest after they had discussed it with Lin Wood).

Here are a few of the details described by the Ramseys in that one interview (emphasis mine):

• "Burke knew something horrible had happened. He heard us screaming. He heard Patsy ...a woman in terror," John confessed. "We thought he was asleep but he wasn't. Burke was awake.
• "Burke was frightened. He had tears in his eyes. He knew something very, very wrong was going on."
• But now John has admitted to The ENQUIRER that Burke woke up before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 a.m. to summon police.
• ...they (John and Patsy) say they didn't find out Burke was awake the morning of the tragedy until he testified before a grand jury nearly two and a half years later.
• They say it wasn't until Burke's 1999 grand jury testimony that they found out he was awake before police arrived -- but was pretending to be asleep.
• "Yeah, he testified to that. We thought he was asleep but he wasn't," said John, who had told police their son slept through the tragedy.

And then there's this:

When asked when Burke woke up, John said it was after Patsy discovered the ransom note shortly after 5:30 a.m. Then he quickly changed his answer to say Burke woke up after the 911 call.
​

​

But then John changed his story again, calling The ENQUIRER as we went to press to say that Burke was awake BEFORE the 911 call. John told us:
​

"Burke recalled his mother screaming, 'Where's my baby?' and me saying, 'Calm down, calm down, we need to call the police.'"
​

John's admission that Burke was awake came after The ENQUIRER revealed to him and Patsy the details of our earlier exclusive report that Burke's voice is heard on an enhancement made of the 911 call. The youngster says, "What did you find?" and "What do you want me to do?"

​

John Ramsey tells his son, "We're not talking to you."

​

But Patsy still insists: "When I made that phone call, Burke Ramsey was nowhere in the vicinity of the telephone."
​

​

Yet all this is disagreement with what they wrote in their book DOI:

Both of us race to Burke's room at the far end of the second floor and find him apparently still asleep. Best not to arouse him until we figure out what's happening here, I think. He's better off asleep for now. I step into the hall.
​

The fact is that the Ramsey accounts of events around Burke, for whatever the reason, are not consistent. So using their accounts in speculation about what happened is useless. Look only at what is known:

1. Burke was awake and in the same room (whichever room that was) with John and Patsy when they called 911.
2. John and Patsy both knew he was in the room, he was awake, and he was asking them questions.
3. After the 911 call, Burke then went to his room and pretended to be asleep before BPD arrived several minutes later.
4. He also pretended to be asleep when the first responding officer looked in to check on him.
5. John and Patsy continued to maintain that Burke was asleep until proof was given them that he was not.
6. Even after these facts were known, the Ramseys claimed they had mistakenly thought Burke was asleep (lying in bed with his eyes closed), but that he “knew something very, very wrong was going on” because “he had tears in his eyes.”

Really?

Right. Because its all made up. None of it is true. The finding the RN and everything after is all lies. So it doesnt matter where she found the note (because it was never on the steps) to the concern about burke or anything its all just a cover up because they did it.

 

[bettybaby00]

All the discussion around whether or not Burke was awake, at what point he was awake, whether or not the parents knew he was awake, did they check on him while he slept, why didn’t they wake him to ask him questions, -- it’s all unnecessary and a complete waste of time. The 911 call proves he was awake while the call was made. Since BPD arrived at the house within minutes, that means he had to have hurried off to bed to begin his part in the charade pretending to have slept the entire time. When he was led through the gauntlet of house-guests to avoid being questioned, he knew not to ask any questions about what was going on. While he rode with Fleet White in the car, he knew not to ask any questions or talk about what had happened.

Regardless of how much involvement in JonBenet’s death you happen to believe Burke may have had, he was not oblivious to what had happened. He knew.

If you want to believe the Ramseys (and don’t we all want to believe them?), which version do you choose to go with? They have at different times claimed that they each (as well as separately) looked in and checked on him confirming that he was asleep. Then they changed the story to, “He had awakened, but they didn’t know it until he admitted it to the GJ.” At one point Burke claimed to have heard “noises” and “voices in the distance”. Patsy said at one time that she had screamed from the kitchen for John on the third floor, yet we’re supposed to believe that Burke just kept on sleeping. At some other point, Patsy claimed to have met John at the stairway on the second floor showing him the note as they yelled and talked about what to do -- while Burke just kept on sleeping. When news came out that his voice could be heard on the 911 recording, they had to admit that he had been awake at some point, but they couldn’t even decide within one interview when he was or how they knew. They even called back the interviewer afterwards to change their story one more time (I would suggest after they had discussed it with Lin Wood).

Here are a few of the details described by the Ramseys in that one interview (emphasis mine):

• "Burke knew something horrible had happened. He heard us screaming. He heard Patsy ...a woman in terror," John confessed. "We thought he was asleep but he wasn't. Burke was awake.
• "Burke was frightened. He had tears in his eyes. He knew something very, very wrong was going on."
• But now John has admitted to The ENQUIRER that Burke woke up before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 a.m. to summon police.
• ...they (John and Patsy) say they didn't find out Burke was awake the morning of the tragedy until he testified before a grand jury nearly two and a half years later.
• They say it wasn't until Burke's 1999 grand jury testimony that they found out he was awake before police arrived -- but was pretending to be asleep.
• "Yeah, he testified to that. We thought he was asleep but he wasn't," said John, who had told police their son slept through the tragedy.

And then there's this:

When asked when Burke woke up, John said it was after Patsy discovered the ransom note shortly after 5:30 a.m. Then he quickly changed his answer to say Burke woke up after the 911 call.
​

​

But then John changed his story again, calling The ENQUIRER as we went to press to say that Burke was awake BEFORE the 911 call. John told us:
​

"Burke recalled his mother screaming, 'Where's my baby?' and me saying, 'Calm down, calm down, we need to call the police.'"
​

John's admission that Burke was awake came after The ENQUIRER revealed to him and Patsy the details of our earlier exclusive report that Burke's voice is heard on an enhancement made of the 911 call. The youngster says, "What did you find?" and "What do you want me to do?"

​

John Ramsey tells his son, "We're not talking to you."

​

But Patsy still insists: "When I made that phone call, Burke Ramsey was nowhere in the vicinity of the telephone."
​

​

Yet all this is disagreement with what they wrote in their book DOI:

Both of us race to Burke's room at the far end of the second floor and find him apparently still asleep. Best not to arouse him until we figure out what's happening here, I think. He's better off asleep for now. I step into the hall.
​

The fact is that the Ramsey accounts of events around Burke, for whatever the reason, are not consistent. So using their accounts in speculation about what happened is useless. Look only at what is known:

1. Burke was awake and in the same room (whichever room that was) with John and Patsy when they called 911.
2. John and Patsy both knew he was in the room, he was awake, and he was asking them questions.
3. After the 911 call, Burke then went to his room and pretended to be asleep before BPD arrived several minutes later.
4. He also pretended to be asleep when the first responding officer looked in to check on him.
5. John and Patsy continued to maintain that Burke was asleep until proof was given them that he was not.
6. Even after these facts were known, the Ramseys claimed they had mistakenly thought Burke was asleep (lying in bed with his eyes closed), but that he “knew something very, very wrong was going on” because “he had tears in his eyes.”

Really?

Kolar put it this way:

I asked the following:

• Did John or Patsy have any motive to intentionally murder their daughter?
I believed the likely answer to that question was No. I then pondered the theory that the death had been an accident.
• Was it possible that Patsy had lost her temper during an argument with JonBenét, and struck her with an object? It was clear that someone had struck a blow to the head of JonBenét, and that it had not been self-inflicted. If it wasn’t Patsy, then who?

The next questions that had to be considered were then the following: If the parents didn’t intentionally kill their daughter, and if there was no intruder, then why go to all of the effort of staging a cover-up?

•Who would benefit?
•Who was being protected?
•Why?

Which not surprisingly leads to:

When I took into consideration all of this information, I had to pose the following questions: What does it matter whether or not Burke was awake at the time that Patsy Ramsey made the 911 call to police and why would his parents wish to conceal this information? Furthermore, what parent would not ask their son, who slept just feet from the bedroom of their kidnapped and murdered daughter, if he had seen or heard anything during the night? This course of action defies human nature and had long been a red flag for me. And why would the Ramseys refuse to allow homicide investigators the opportunity to interview Burke about the death of his sister? Instead, they insisted that this interview be performed by a psychologist / psychiatrist. Why were Burke’s parents so adamant that he was not a witness in this investigation? Was it because the family was afraid that direct contact with experienced police investigators might reveal some way in which he was involved in this case?

 

[chlban]

Kolar put it this way:





Which not surprisingly leads to:

Yes. I am (mostly) PDI, but that is one very good point that gives me that "Reasonable Doubt". If Burke was not involved, why not just go in, wake him up and act like any normal parent would when one child is missing?

It is food for thought.

 

[chlban]

Yes. I am (mostly) PDI, but that is one very good point that gives me that "Reasonable Doubt". If Burke was not involved, why not just go in, wake him up and act like any normal parent would when one child is missing?

It is food for thought.

Edited to add, a couple of weeks ago, by the Condo pool with 3 of my neighbors , I was re-reading PMPT. Someone asked what book I was reading and I told them and added (because believe it or not, everyone doesn't obsessively follow this case), that it was about JonBenet Ramsey's murder. One of them said immediately, "the brother did it" and the other two agreed.

I realize this is proof of absolutely nothing, but I found it interesting. The logic was, basically, no way would you cover for your spouse, but virtually any parent would cover for a young child.

 

[bettybaby00]

Edited to add, a couple of weeks ago, by the Condo pool with 3 of my neighbors , I was re-reading PMPT. Someone asked what book I was reading and I told them and added (because believe it or not, everyone doesn't obsessively follow this case), that it was about JonBenet Ramsey's murder. One of them said immediately, "the brother did it" and the other two agreed.

I realize this is proof of absolutely nothing, but I found it interesting. The logic was, basically, no way would you cover for your spouse, but virtually any parent would cover for a young child.

Exactly my feelings as well.

 

[questfortrue]

Kolar put it this way:





Which not surprisingly leads to:

Heck, I had my top 3 stories of confusion prioritized:
1) When were her sheets changed?
2) Why is JB dressed in huge Bloomies?
3) How did JR come in the window, was window repaired?

And now this - otg's documentation of BR awake/asleep stories.

I'll have to bump one of these to the #4 position. Moo

 

[dodie20]

my only real problem with all their stories, is BR said he was awake, but that he stayed in his room, and that wasn't his voice on the 911. And why lie about that? I tend to believe him, because if it was his goal to lie for his parents, he would never have admitted to being awake at all...or that JB helped deliver Christmas packages, or walked into their house and up the stairs. But, if that wasn't his voice on the 911, whose was it? Imo, (and this is just a theory), it may have been PR and JR. I read an interview with a reporter, that PR would sometimes use a childlike voice. So, maybe it was her saying, (in a little girl's voice-after JR maybe checked the basement, shudders), 'what did you find', and him answering in that angry voice. Him saying, 'we're not talking to you', makes perfect sense, considering early reports said those 2 did not speak to each other and acted like a couple in the process of divorce. all moo

 

[UKGuy]

All the discussion around whether or not Burke was awake, at what point he was awake, whether or not the parents knew he was awake, did they check on him while he slept, why didn’t they wake him to ask him questions, -- it’s all unnecessary and a complete waste of time. The 911 call proves he was awake while the call was made. Since BPD arrived at the house within minutes, that means he had to have hurried off to bed to begin his part in the charade pretending to have slept the entire time. When he was led through the gauntlet of house-guests to avoid being questioned, he knew not to ask any questions about what was going on. While he rode with Fleet White in the car, he knew not to ask any questions or talk about what had happened.

Regardless of how much involvement in JonBenet’s death you happen to believe Burke may have had, he was not oblivious to what had happened. He knew.

If you want to believe the Ramseys (and don’t we all want to believe them?), which version do you choose to go with? They have at different times claimed that they each (as well as separately) looked in and checked on him confirming that he was asleep. Then they changed the story to, “He had awakened, but they didn’t know it until he admitted it to the GJ.” At one point Burke claimed to have heard “noises” and “voices in the distance”. Patsy said at one time that she had screamed from the kitchen for John on the third floor, yet we’re supposed to believe that Burke just kept on sleeping. At some other point, Patsy claimed to have met John at the stairway on the second floor showing him the note as they yelled and talked about what to do -- while Burke just kept on sleeping. When news came out that his voice could be heard on the 911 recording, they had to admit that he had been awake at some point, but they couldn’t even decide within one interview when he was or how they knew. They even called back the interviewer afterwards to change their story one more time (I would suggest after they had discussed it with Lin Wood).

Here are a few of the details described by the Ramseys in that one interview (emphasis mine):

• "Burke knew something horrible had happened. He heard us screaming. He heard Patsy ...a woman in terror," John confessed. "We thought he was asleep but he wasn't. Burke was awake.
• "Burke was frightened. He had tears in his eyes. He knew something very, very wrong was going on."
• But now John has admitted to The ENQUIRER that Burke woke up before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 a.m. to summon police.
• ...they (John and Patsy) say they didn't find out Burke was awake the morning of the tragedy until he testified before a grand jury nearly two and a half years later.
• They say it wasn't until Burke's 1999 grand jury testimony that they found out he was awake before police arrived -- but was pretending to be asleep.
• "Yeah, he testified to that. We thought he was asleep but he wasn't," said John, who had told police their son slept through the tragedy.

And then there's this:

When asked when Burke woke up, John said it was after Patsy discovered the ransom note shortly after 5:30 a.m. Then he quickly changed his answer to say Burke woke up after the 911 call.
​

​

But then John changed his story again, calling The ENQUIRER as we went to press to say that Burke was awake BEFORE the 911 call. John told us:
​

"Burke recalled his mother screaming, 'Where's my baby?' and me saying, 'Calm down, calm down, we need to call the police.'"
​

John's admission that Burke was awake came after The ENQUIRER revealed to him and Patsy the details of our earlier exclusive report that Burke's voice is heard on an enhancement made of the 911 call. The youngster says, "What did you find?" and "What do you want me to do?"

​

John Ramsey tells his son, "We're not talking to you."

​

But Patsy still insists: "When I made that phone call, Burke Ramsey was nowhere in the vicinity of the telephone."
​

​

Yet all this is disagreement with what they wrote in their book DOI:

Both of us race to Burke's room at the far end of the second floor and find him apparently still asleep. Best not to arouse him until we figure out what's happening here, I think. He's better off asleep for now. I step into the hall.
​

The fact is that the Ramsey accounts of events around Burke, for whatever the reason, are not consistent. So using their accounts in speculation about what happened is useless. Look only at what is known:

1. Burke was awake and in the same room (whichever room that was) with John and Patsy when they called 911.
2. John and Patsy both knew he was in the room, he was awake, and he was asking them questions.
3. After the 911 call, Burke then went to his room and pretended to be asleep before BPD arrived several minutes later.
4. He also pretended to be asleep when the first responding officer looked in to check on him.
5. John and Patsy continued to maintain that Burke was asleep until proof was given them that he was not.
6. Even after these facts were known, the Ramseys claimed they had mistakenly thought Burke was asleep (lying in bed with his eyes closed), but that he “knew something very, very wrong was going on” because “he had tears in his eyes.”

Really?

otg,
Well put, alike the Pistorius defense which according to the prosecution has three mutually exclusive versions, the R's various versions of events are also mutually exclusive and inconsistent, e.g. pineapple snack vs JonBenet asleep, size-12's vs none in her drawer, BR asleep vs talking on the 911 call, the broken window vs JR closing it, JonBenet's bedroom cleaned up vs Breakfast Bar left as is.

ITA with everything you say and assume the primary crime-scene was upstairs, the rest is staging and restaging probably by JR. JR is the one who explains away the chair, broken window and suitcase, he also elects to discover JonBenet. Since JonBenet was found wearing assymetric ponytails, this suggests she was readied for bed, either before or after the pineapple snack, a nice, as used, Breakfast Bar she left there and headed upstairs to one of the bedrooms. One of the R's sexually assaulted her and the rest follows. Two items that continue to fascinate me are: JonBenet being redressed in size-12's, and PR not changing into clean clothes, despite putting on her makeup. I'll assume both JR and BR had clean clothes on that morning.

Also BR's presence on the 911 call along with JR contradicts DocG's theory implicitly!



.

 

[chlban]

otg,
Well put, alike the Pistorius defense which according to the prosecution has three mutually exclusive versions, the R's various versions of events are also mutually exclusive and inconsistent, e.g. pineapple snack vs JonBenet asleep, size-12's vs none in her drawer, BR asleep vs talking on the 911 call, the broken window vs JR closing it, JonBenet's bedroom cleaned up vs Breakfast Bar left as is.

ITA with everything you say and assume the primary crime-scene was upstairs, the rest is staging and restaging probably by JR. JR is the one who explains away the chair, broken window and suitcase, he also elects to discover JonBenet. Since JonBenet was found wearing assymetric ponytails, this suggests she was readied for bed, either before or after the pineapple snack, a nice, as used, Breakfast Bar she left there and headed upstairs to one of the bedrooms. One of the R's sexually assaulted her and the rest follows. Two items that continue to fascinate me are: JonBenet being redressed in size-12's, and PR not changing into clean clothes, despite putting on her makeup. I'll assume both JR and BR had clean clothes on that morning.

Also BR's presence on the 911 call along with JR contradicts DocG's theory implicitly!



.

Patsy in the same clothes just doesn't mean anything to me one way or another. I know alot of people think that indicates guilt, but I a m not sure how. It would seem to me if she did kill JB and presuming she was still dressed in what she wore tot he Whites, that she would change out of it, not continue to wear it. If the argument is that she didn't have time to change, that seems to be in destroyed by the fact that her make up was, supposedly, fresh. Any woman can verify it takes longer to put on make up than to pull on some clothes.

I am RDI, and I lean most heavily to PDI. I just don't happen to think the outfil is one of the many clues in this case.

However, the one thing that does cause me to question PDI and lean toward BDI is the lying about him being asleep. It does seem they tried to deliberately keep him out of things as much as possible and the only reason I can think of for doing that is if he is the one thta inflicted the blow.

Either way, I do not believe Burke finished her off or staged it. He may have caused the head blow, but I do not for one second believe he did the staging. In that scenario, his asking "what did you find?" makes perfect sense. He heard them discussing a Ransom Note and wondered what the heck they were talking about.

 

[Aleph]

Edited to add, a couple of weeks ago, by the Condo pool with 3 of my neighbors , I was re-reading PMPT. Someone asked what book I was reading and I told them and added (because believe it or not, everyone doesn't obsessively follow this case), that it was about JonBenet Ramsey's murder. One of them said immediately, "the brother did it" and the other two agreed.

I realize this is proof of absolutely nothing, but I found it interesting. The logic was, basically, no way would you cover for your spouse, but virtually any parent would cover for a young child.

Sometimes a total outsider's gut reaction can help the rest of us see the forest for the trees.

 

[elannia]

Patsy in the same clothes just doesn't mean anything to me one way or another. I know alot of people think that indicates guilt, but I a m not sure how. It would seem to me if she did kill JB and presuming she was still dressed in what she wore tot he Whites, that she would change out of it, not continue to wear it. If the argument is that she didn't have time to change, that seems to be in destroyed by the fact that her make up was, supposedly, fresh. Any woman can verify it takes longer to put on make up than to pull on some clothes.

I am RDI, and I lean most heavily to PDI. I just don't happen to think the outfil is one of the many clues in this case.

However, the one thing that does cause me to question PDI and lean toward BDI is the lying about him being asleep. It does seem they tried to deliberately keep him out of things as much as possible and the only reason I can think of for doing that is if he is the one thta inflicted the blow.

Either way, I do not believe Burke finished her off or staged it. He may have caused the head blow, but I do not for one second believe he did the staging. In that scenario, his asking "what did you find?" makes perfect sense. He heard them discussing a Ransom Note and wondered what the heck they were talking about.

I am back and forth with PDI and BDI. If patsy did it you would think she woukd have enough sense to change outta her clothes. But then maybe she was like ok what do I do with them now like washing them because that would be suspicious if she was the only one who washed her clothes from the night before. So I just think she didnt have time to change. But in all honestly I cant see her grabbing something and hitting JB on the head. I know people actually do this but I just dont see it with Patsy. I think if PDI it was an accident and she had alot going on between Christmas packing for 2 trips plus JB pageant the following week and it was out of frustration. Maybe JB was getting at her after the pineapple snack maybe wet herself (going by ST theory, maybe Patsy HAD went to bed and JB came and woke her telling her she wet herself (john still sleeping)remember pull ups hanging out if the shelf...and thats when it started in JB bedroom then moved into bathroom explaining the red turtleneck balled up and she had just had enough and maybe got too rough with her not meaning too and JB hit her head... she thinks shes dead and she doesnt want to call 911 for fear of prison and people knowing what she had done. So she sets up the scene. BDI theory... Burke says she walked in and went up with patsy. Well maybe thats when she put the turtleneck on (cant see dressing my kid in that for bed) then came back downstairs. Kids want a snack patsy fixes for them then patsy goes to finish the packing and getting stuff ready for trip. JB Burke get into it and he hits her. Patsy comes in and sees then sends Burke to his room. She has to figure out what to do now so instead of waking john(he already lost one daughter she fears to tell him...) so she sets up the scene thinking she is dead already moves her to basement and then begins the staging. Remember she thinks she is dead so the sexual assualt wont hurt her or the garroting. So she actually kills her by pulling that cord and she does it while she is face down cause she cant bear to look at her while she does this. Then comes the RN writing and then she hears john wake up thats when she starts her performance. Burke walks in (he doesnt know what note (what did you find) shes talking about( he was sent up to his room after the head blow) during the 911 call john is scared upset doesnt know whats going on and thats why patsy thinks she hung up so no one overhears. Moo

 

[UKGuy]

Patsy in the same clothes just doesn't mean anything to me one way or another. I know alot of people think that indicates guilt, but I a m not sure how. It would seem to me if she did kill JB and presuming she was still dressed in what she wore tot he Whites, that she would change out of it, not continue to wear it. If the argument is that she didn't have time to change, that seems to be in destroyed by the fact that her make up was, supposedly, fresh. Any woman can verify it takes longer to put on make up than to pull on some clothes.

I am RDI, and I lean most heavily to PDI. I just don't happen to think the outfil is one of the many clues in this case.

However, the one thing that does cause me to question PDI and lean toward BDI is the lying about him being asleep. It does seem they tried to deliberately keep him out of things as much as possible and the only reason I can think of for doing that is if he is the one thta inflicted the blow.

Either way, I do not believe Burke finished her off or staged it. He may have caused the head blow, but I do not for one second believe he did the staging. In that scenario, his asking "what did you find?" makes perfect sense. He heard them discussing a Ransom Note and wondered what the heck they were talking about.

chlban,
BBM: Well that it appears innocuous is precisely why it interests me. Not that it indicates guilt, but more what part may it have played in a prior staging? JR showered and dressed in clean clothes that morning Patsy did not, that she had time to do her makeup suggests not dressing in clean clothes was a deliberate decision, i.e. not one forced on her due to a lack of time. Obviously by the time the 911 call was made the R's had their game plan settled and they all knew their roles and acted accordingly.

If its BDI then BR may have done some rudimentary staging i.e. damage limitation, as far as a childs mind can comprehend what needs to be done? The big question is: does the head injury represent failed staging? If so then BDI appears much stronger as a theory.

If PDI proponents can visualize Patsy whacking JonBenet on the head in anger, then they should have no difficulty recognizing that Patsy might have attempted to stage JonBenet's death arising from a whack on the head and not pressure around JonBenet's throat!

IMO its the sexual assault and chronic abuse that suggest a male Ramsey was responsible, and considering the immature and impulsive manner in which it took place, time, location etc, then this points more to a child or teenager rather than some mature practised pedophile?

It could still be PDI with PR as JonBenet's abuser, and PR enacting an initial staging which JR later amends and tells BR what to his role is to be etc?

.

 

[2 percent]

I am back and forth with PDI and BDI. If patsy did it you would think she woukd have enough sense to change outta her clothes. But then maybe she was like ok what do I do with them now like washing them because that would be suspicious if she was the only one who washed her clothes from the night before. So I just think she didnt have time to change. But in all honestly I cant see her grabbing something and hitting JB on the head. I know people actually do this but I just dont see it with Patsy. I think if PDI it was an accident and she had alot going on between Christmas packing for 2 trips plus JB pageant the following week and it was out of frustration. Maybe JB was getting at her after the pineapple snack maybe wet herself (going by ST theory, maybe Patsy HAD went to bed and JB came and woke her telling her she wet herself (john still sleeping)remember pull ups hanging out if the shelf...and thats when it started in JB bedroom then moved into bathroom explaining the red turtleneck balled up and she had just had enough and maybe got too rough with her not meaning too and JB hit her head... she thinks shes dead and she doesnt want to call 911 for fear of prison and people knowing what she had done. So she sets up the scene. BDI theory... Burke says she walked in and went up with patsy. Well maybe thats when she put the turtleneck on (cant see dressing my kid in that for bed) then came back downstairs. Kids want a snack patsy fixes for them then patsy goes to finish the packing and getting stuff ready for trip. JB Burke get into it and he hits her. Patsy comes in and sees then sends Burke to his room. She has to figure out what to do now so instead of waking john(he already lost one daughter she fears to tell him...) so she sets up the scene thinking she is dead already moves her to basement and then begins the staging. Remember she thinks she is dead so the sexual assualt wont hurt her or the garroting. So she actually kills her by pulling that cord and she does it while she is face down cause she cant bear to look at her while she does this. Then comes the RN writing and then she hears john wake up thats when she starts her performance. Burke walks in (he doesnt know what note (what did you find) shes talking about( he was sent up to his room after the head blow) during the 911 call john is scared upset doesnt know whats going on and thats why patsy thinks she hung up so no one overhears. Moo

I am not BDI. I actually can't see a scenario where I ever will be, either. Most of the problem that I have with the theory is the coverup. I just can't see an accidental whack over the head - child on child crime - escalating to the point where there is a RN and garrotting by one or more parent. The garrotting, specifically, is just too extreme for me to believe it's part of the staging...who in the world would jump to garrotting when there are several other blatantly sexual positions she could have been posed in? No, I think the garrotting is genuine.
I also think either both of the Ramseys are in on the murder/coverup or neither. They just aren't suspicious enough of each other for me to think otherwise.

I think the sexual assault evidence is the primary motive here and I don't see Burke as the molester.

 

[elannia]

I am not BDI. I actually can't see a scenario where I ever will be, either. Most of the problem that I have with the theory is the coverup. I just can't see an accidental whack over the head - child on child crime - escalating to the point where there is a RN and garrotting by one or more parent. The garrotting, specifically, is just too extreme for me to believe it's part of the staging...who in the world would jump to garrotting when there are several other blatantly sexual positions she could have been posed in? No, I think the garrotting is genuine.
I also think either both of the Ramseys are in on the murder/coverup or neither. They just aren't suspicious enough of each other for me to think otherwise.

I think the sexual assault evidence is the primary motive here and I don't see Burke as the molester.

Whatever happened that night was a result of something going on before then.. friends wanting to talk about the Mega Jonbenet thing, visits to the school nurse calls to the pediatrician(cant remember when those calls were made so if it was to cover up the sexual assualt who was the molester?