Steven Avery & Brendan Dassey get new representation

[Sustained]

The idea that LE is happy to have anyone charged for a murder, purposely leaving 'the real killer' out there doesn't make sense to me. How is that a desired outcome? It happens that the wrong person has been accused (often through bad eye witness identification), but not so much now if there's DNA testing in a case that does match someone. Then they still have a murderer running loose hurting/murdering their citizens and that's supposed to be a good thing? Nawwwww. I've never seen or heard of a cop say "we just want someone/anyone in jail, doesn't matter who it is or even if they committed the crime..." They usually think they do have the right person and that's why they move forward on it. And sometimes they are wrong.

BBM ... makes perfect sense if the real killer is part of LE or somehow tied in to a major scandal involving the MCSO. Not saying it happened here, but anything is possible. How do we know for sure that MCSO wasn't plotting in some fashion against SA BEFORE TH was actually murdered ?

 

[shadowraiths]

I must admit, the one thing that is extremely troubling about this case is that the Halbach's nightmare is not only rehashed in the media and on the internet but that people are petitioning to bypass the CJS altogether to get this man's conviction overturned.

To add insult to a wound, that never really heals when losing a loved one to a violent crime, an extremely high profile attorney regularly tweets, portraying this man as the victim of dirty cops and shady CJS, claiming the real killer will be revealed and SA will be exonerated.

What admittedly bothers me in all this, is that, from my read, it appears SA is claiming "fruit of the poisonous tree," alleging a faulty search warrant. And as such, the evidence presented at his trial (e.g., the key, RAV4, blood in the RAV4, cremains, etcetera) should have been inadmissible.

The full appeal can be read here.

Imnsvo, the "poisonous tree" argument is not the defense of an innocent man. While I have seen this argument before, it is somewhat rare in appeals, in that, when put forth, it is generally put forth at the time of trial, not ten years after the fact. And, from what I've seen, it tends to be put forth by convicted felons who have exhausted their appeals, and are trying a "last ditch" effort to get their convictions overturned.

 

[Sustained]

I must admit, the one thing that is extremely troubling about this case is that the Halbach's nightmare is not only rehashed in the media and on the internet but that people are petitioning to bypass the CJS altogether to get this man's conviction overturned.

To add insult to a wound, that never really heals when losing a loved one to a violent crime, an extremely high profile attorney regularly tweets, portraying this man as the victim of dirty cops and shady CJS, claiming the real killer will be revealed and SA will be exonerated.

What admittedly bothers me in all this, is that, from my read, it appears SA is claiming "fruit of the poisonous tree," alleging a faulty search warrant. And as such, the evidence presented at his trial (e.g., the key, RAV4, blood in the RAV4, cremains, etcetera) should have been inadmissible.

The full appeal can be read here.

Imnsvo, the "poisonous tree" argument is not the defense of an innocent man. While I have seen this argument before, it is somewhat rare in appeals, in that, when put forth, it is generally put forth at the time of trial, not ten years after the fact. And, from what I've seen, it tends to be put forth by convicted felons who have exhausted their appeals, and are trying a "last ditch" effort to get their convictions overturned.

In all fairness to Zellner, wasn't this argument crafted prior to her joining Avery's defense team ? If Zellner says she has new evidence, I'll take her at face value for now. I am surprised however, that Buting/Strang would have missed an illegal search prior to trial ...

As to the emotional effect on the Halbach's, I would hope they are not frequenting any social media that would remind them of the horrible ordeal they have been put through.

 

[missy1974]

I must admit, the one thing that is extremely troubling about this case is that the Halbach's nightmare is not only rehashed in the media and on the internet but that people are petitioning to bypass the CJS altogether to get this man's conviction overturned.

To add insult to a wound, that never really heals when losing a loved one to a violent crime, an extremely high profile attorney regularly tweets, portraying this man as the victim of dirty cops and shady CJS, claiming the real killer will be revealed and SA will be exonerated.

What admittedly bothers me in all this, is that, from my read, it appears SA is claiming "fruit of the poisonous tree," alleging a faulty search warrant. And as such, the evidence presented at his trial (e.g., the key, RAV4, blood in the RAV4, cremains, etcetera) should have been inadmissible.

Imnsvo, the "poisonous tree" argument is not the defense of an innocent man. While I have seen this argument before, it is somewhat rare in appeals, in that, when put forth, it is generally put forth at the time of trial, not ten years after the fact. And, from what I've seen, it tends to be put forth by convicted felons who have exhausted their appeals, and are trying a "last ditch" effort to get their convictions overturned.

That is the appeal that SA filed himself before Zellner took over.

in his court records this was filed on the 8th of Feb. Does that mean that the above motion was withdrawn?

02-08-2016
Other papers

Additional Text:

Copies of Notice of Voluntary Dismissal of Defendant's Pro Se Motion. Cover Letter.


I agree that this has probably caused a lot of grief to the Halbach family, and it is unfortunate, and of course because this has become such a big case with a big following, I imagine they can't avoid it. On the other side of that... what if someone is in prison for a crime they really didn't commit? There is no way around it IMO

I also have to wonder how they feel about Kratz profiting from this case and writing a book.

 

[shadowraiths]

Yes, from my read, the "fruit of the poisonous tree" appeal was put forth by SA, not his new legal team.

 

[MysticJynx]

Not sure if this has been posted but Brendan's lawyer has been doing some talks why she thinks his confession was coerced.

The Key Reason Brendan Dassey's Lawyer, Laura Nirider, Believes His Confession Was False
http://www.bustle.com/articles/1439...ura-nirider-believes-his-confession-was-false

And Zellner has a site for tips and stuff.
http://www.kathleentzellner.com/steven-avery

 

[TheDuchess]

I must admit, the one thing that is extremely troubling about this case is that the Halbach's nightmare is not only rehashed in the media and on the internet but that people are petitioning to bypass the CJS altogether to get this man's conviction overturned.

To add insult to a wound, that never really heals when losing a loved one to a violent crime, an extremely high profile attorney regularly tweets, portraying this man as the victim of dirty cops and shady CJS, claiming the real killer will be revealed and SA will be exonerated.

What admittedly bothers me in all this, is that, from my read, it appears SA is claiming "fruit of the poisonous tree," alleging a faulty search warrant. And as such, the evidence presented at his trial (e.g., the key, RAV4, blood in the RAV4, cremains, etcetera) should have been inadmissible.

The full appeal can be read here.

Imnsvo, the "poisonous tree" argument is not the defense of an innocent man. While I have seen this argument before, it is somewhat rare in appeals, in that, when put forth, it is generally put forth at the time of trial, not ten years after the fact. And, from what I've seen, it tends to be put forth by convicted felons who have exhausted their appeals, and are trying a "last ditch" effort to get their convictions overturned.

Why is it not an innocent persons appeal? When you've exhausted everything else and have nothing to lose? It's kinda like saying what Kratz did when he said that reasonable doubt is for the innocent.

And no offense but I'm quite tired of the argument about the family. Yes it's horrible but that doesn't mean that if an innocent person is in prison for the murder something should be done? If they are upset they should direct their anger toward the MCSD for going anywhere near that investigation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dexter75]

Thank you, Shadowraiths, I hadn't a clue rates were that low, either.

( I always thought I knew quite a bit, in regards to serial killers, homicide, etc. Like you, I've followed many cases. Just throwing it out there that I am STOKED!! Your S/K app. Can't wait to download it and give it a peak this week =) )

Makes sense, though, when thinking about the pressures and how it must appear safer for SOME one to be put away =(

Unfortunately, and imho, this is partially due to the fact that solve rates are so low. And that's nation wide. IIrc, they hover in the 60% range, though, it obviously varies from state to state. For example, when I first began to follow the West Mesa killer, i recall being quite surprised that Albuquerque had a solve rate that hovered somewhere between 70-80%, and a friend pointing out that's actually higher than most.

In the end, and sadly, what that means, is there are families who not only lose loved ones to horrific crimes, but now have to live without knowing who actually murdered their loved one(s). I wrote about one such example back in 2006. That I'm aware, Philip Edward Wilkinson remains on death row, and Ms. Rundle's father has yet to learn of who murdered his daughter and grand children. Sadly, both families end up living in a perpetual nightmare. One without answers, and the other fighting the appeals of their loved one's killer. And, they're not alone.

It also means that homicide LEOs are haunted by the cases they could not solve. That is, in addition to the social pressure, there is huge huge incentive to solve cases. Esp if they really do feel they have the guy (or gal, as the case may be). In other words, the motivation goes beyond the social and pierces the heart/soul, so to speak.

 

[dexter75]

With all due respect,

It doesn't make sense, it is NOT a desired outcome and in a perfect world it wouldn't happen.

I'm sure they " usually " do think they have the right person.

FACTS are, we have innocent people in prison for life, some have been executed.

I've often wondered, if at any point a LEO has a " this person may be innocent/I have the wrong guy moment " Do they turn back?
Do investigations reach a " point of no return? "
JMO

The idea that LE is happy to have anyone charged for a murder, purposely leaving 'the real killer' out there doesn't make sense to me. How is that a desired outcome? It happens that the wrong person has been accused (often through bad eye witness identification), but not so much now if there's DNA testing in a case that does match someone. Then they still have a murderer running loose hurting/murdering their citizens and that's supposed to be a good thing? Nawwwww. I've never seen or heard of a cop say "we just want someone/anyone in jail, doesn't matter who it is or even if they committed the crime..." They usually think they do have the right person and that's why they move forward on it. And sometimes they are wrong.

 

[LifeCitizen]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this but thought I would share it.

 

[missy1974]

motion filed yesterday

03-08-2016
Motion

Additional Text:

Motion to Correct the Record and Motion for Additional Time to Inspect the Record. Cover Letter.


I read a news article yesterday....
http://wbay.com/2016/03/01/steven-averys-appeal-delayed-again/

“A number of people were on vacation, and we’ve had a very heavy criminal case load,” said Zigmunt, who also said Wisconsin law requires an additional ten days once the index, or compilation as it’s referred to in legal terms, is complete.

The ten days Zigmunt is referencing is part of a Wisconsin law that delays files being sent to the appellate court, until the files can be reviewed by attorneys.

it is stated in the article that the County Clerk is "done", so it's in the hands of the attorney's now to review, and one of them has asked for additional time.

 

[Madeleine74]

I've followed several cases through appeals and both sides usually have the opportunity to request more time if needed and it's quite common to do so as both sides are often busy with more than just 1 case.

 

[shadowraiths]

They're apparently asking for another extension. Motion entered on Monday.

 

[missy1974]

I posted that yesterday shadowraiths ;-) It's not the Clerk that is asking for additional time.... the news article I posted yesterday quotes the County Clerk as saying they index it and then it's given to the attorney's to review and then corrections can be submitted before it's even filed. I'm just guessing... but it's an attorney that is asking for additional time this time.

 

[missy1974]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Zellner-Motions-2016Mar08.pdf

here is the motion that was filed on the 8th, it was filed by KZ. She has stated that information seems to be missing, which may not be the case, according the user SkippTopp who has also requested/received/uploaded all of these documents already. He said that it was very confusing and it might just be a matter of clarifying those documents (which seem to be the one's that were previously sealed).

She has also asked for an additional 21 days to review since the record in this case is of "considerable size" and because they have to travel to the court to review the documents.

Nothing earth shattering, but thought I would share

 

[Jaiddie]

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathleen-zellner-making-murderer-attorney-steve-avery-441470.html

Zelner on why she took n the Avery case:

“When I watched the Avery case, I felt that the attitude toward him by the prosecutors and the state was that he was disposable. It was almost like a class thing. [His family] didn’t matter, they had no power,” Zellner says. “The longer I watched it, the more angry I got.”

 

[ZOOL]

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathleen-zellner-making-murderer-attorney-steve-avery-441470.html

Zelner on why she took n the Avery case:

“When I watched the Avery case, I felt that the attitude toward him by the prosecutors and the state was that he was disposable. It was almost like a class thing. [His family] didn’t matter, they had no power,” Zellner says. “The longer I watched it, the more angry I got.”

Jaiddie ~ The Newsweek article suggests that forensic science will prove Avery's innocence, and that Zellner knows the key to the mystery.

It seems to me though that her challenge will be finding some significant, unknown DNA in the RAV4 blood.

Her reference to the cellphone pings is interesting because she must have records of Cingular 1984 tower IDs which show Halbach twelve miles away from Avery's Salvage Yard after TH left around 2:41pm. From what I understand, records such as those may no longer exist. But even with the ability to show Halbach did indeed leave Avery's, I am curious how Zellner will discount the curious blood smear on the key-console panel: If someone other than SA left that, then I would presume that that someone was quite handy with a tiny paintbrush, with painstaking attention to detail, and with a very steady hand. Oh...I suppose the "planter of evidence" could have taken an actual transfer with tape from Avery's bloody finger. But when precisely could he have pulled that off? His timing would have had to have been almost psychic.

 

[missy1974]

Jaiddie ~ thanks for posting this! Was a good read while I was drinking my coffee

Zool ~ IMO there is a lot that wasn't tested in that RAV4, and when things that were tested, were only tested against the Avery family (and not even all of them, they are listed in the lab reports) KZ comments on that in the article, the limited testing. The "smear" by the console.... IMO it wouldn't be hard at all and if you look online, it's been replicated many times by "home experiments", I think all the one's I have seen are using q-tips (which are very similar to a swab, no?) Interesting to note about this.... the blood on the CD case was "smeared" too, almost like uhmmm a palette. JMO

The phone records ~ all indications are that she has this information and so did Strang/Buting back in 2005/2007, it states in the article:
“So it’s absolutely shocking to see cellphone records that were part of the discovery that were turned over to the defense...document her route leaving the property. She goes back the same way she came, she’s 12 miles from the property on the last ping,” Zellner says. “They screwed it up.”

So even if AT&T (who bought Cingular) has not kept the records, she has them. For what it's worth, I don't think AT&T purges that information and would probably still have it anyway from documents I have found online ... which I doubt I could find again, because.... well... I have been everywhere on the internet LOL

The most interesting thing in the article to me is.....

Asked whether she and her team have identified suspects in the case, Zellner says yes—and that they are all men who knew Halbach. “We have a couple. I’d say there’s one, leading the pack by a lot. But I don’t want to scare him off, I don’t want him to run,” she says, explaining why she won’t say more. In that same conversation, Zellner said both law enforcement and defense attorneys failed to investigate Halbach’s life, noting that the victim was a very nice person just starting her career. When told that sometimes people who are very nice can still be murder victims, Zellner agrees, adding, “And women who have bad judgment about men are murdered.”

 

[mayqueen]

Thanks, Jaiddie! That was a great read; I'd been eagerly waiting to hear a little more from her re: SA's case. Although I thought it would come in the form of a brief tweet, not an interview -- so that was a pleasant surprise.

While I still think Buting and Strang did a great job, I was surprised to learn they had access to something (the cell records) that according to KZ clearly provide an alibi for SA, but didn't do anything with it? Any thoughts/ideas why? (Did they not review the records closely enough? Did they not realize the significance? Did they not think it would prove useful? Oh... maybe because of the DST issue, they were looking at activity in the wrong timeframe...? Help, I can't brain today -- I have the dumb.)

:thinking:

 

[missy1974]

mayqueen ~ I have said before that I thought it was strange that one side or the other didn't bring in the cell "ping" data.... and then to see the 'document' that was used in the trial that Kratz made, was just silly.

So if the cell data shows she left the property, I get why Kratz didn't bring it in... what I don't understand is why didn't the defense bring it up? Would it have cost them money to get an expert? or could they have called a representative from one of the cell phone companies to testify to that?

I do remember reading in the transcripts that when Buting brought up the last call having a tower number... Kratz objected right away, and then was more than willing to stipulate that it was the "last call she received before the phone was turned off/destroyed", which isn't the same thing as her last ping. IMO Kratz knew about her last ping, and knew what it could mean (that she had left the property)