Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Sustained]

Yes and courts often get it wrong or KZ wouldn't have any PC work.

But more often than not they get it right - what percentage of incarcerated folks do you think are actually innocent ?

 

[keeponsearching]

You must be on the pro-Avery side.

I was just giving a reasoning over the use of 67, from my experience.

 

[Sustained]

I was just giving a reasoning over the use of 67, from my experience.

Ok I thought this was the truther thread. I think differently about SA and his use of *67.

 

[proudfootz]

Sustained said: ↑
Too bad two juries and a bunch of judges don't agree with the murderers.

There was only one Trial and one Jury for SA.

Besides which AFAICT we don't know who the murderer was...

 

[Sustained]

Besides which AFAICT we don't know who the murderer was...

Could've been Delores for all we know

 

[proudfootz]

I was responding to your comment I also think he thought he had time to crush the car as well and that explains the location in which it was left. So I am a little confused... you think he thought he had time (which obviously he didn't have time), and you respond by saying how could he do it with his entire family there. So he knew his entire family was there all week yet would find the time to crush it without them knowing... when was that going to be? And let's not forget that he had absolutely no way of knowing when she would be reported missing, it could have easily have been the evening of the 31st if anyone had noticed.

As the salvage yard was open, a family with people coming and going all hours of the day and night right next door, and fielding random phone calls it certainly seems that Steven would have zero expectation of not being caught red-handed if he did commit any crime against Teresa.

Indeed all these witnesses pin Steven at home while Teresa was proven to be at the quarry.

The prosecution 'theory' makes no sense.

MOO

 

[Sustained]

As the salvage yard was open, a family with people coming and going all hours of the day and night right next door, and fielding random phone calls it certainly seems that Steven would have zero expectation of not being caught red-handed if he did commit any crime against Teresa.

Indeed all these witnesses pin Steven at home while Teresa was proven to be at the quarry.

The prosecution 'theory' makes no sense.

MOO

TH has not been proven by anyone to have been at the quarry and even if she was at some point does not exclude SA.

 

[keeponsearching]

What are all your opinions about the cell tower pings?

 

[Karinna]

What are all your opinions about the cell tower pings?

I think they are telling IMO.
(quote)
"Cellphone tower records of SA (Steven Avery) & TH (Teresa Halbach) provide airtight alibi for him. She left property he didn't," Zellner tweeted.

If true, and usable in court, that information would poke a large hole in the prosecution's theory that the "Making a Murderer" subject killed Halbach while she was on his property taking photos of one of the many vehicles there.

Avery's lawyer then took shots at how the original trial was handled, claiming that science-based facts were ignored and witnesses who took the stand lied.


"Easy part: planting evidence. Hard part: avoiding scientific detection 10+ yrs later," she wrote before later adding "How long will the witnesses who lied at trial be protected by those who know the truth."
Steven Avery’s new lawyer says the ‘Making a Murderer’ subject has an ‘airtight alibi’ - NY Daily News

 

[proudfootz]

Scent dogs tracked Teresa to the quarry - FACT.

Steven shown by any number of witnesses to have been at home all night - FACT.

Only one logical conclusion to be drawn from the facts: they were in two different places - FACT.

Steven somehow guilty of being in two places at once - PURE FANTASY.

 

[missy1974]

IMO, he thought he had time on the 31st as he did not know what day TH would be reported. Maybe he thought he could crush the car after everyone else went to Crivitz. Who knows ? At the time, did SA know his visit was the last for TH that day ? It was only around 2:30.

When was he going to do it on the 31st? Family was going to be there and you have already suggested that he didn't do it because of family being there. Not everyone went to Crivitz. The business was open on the 5th, Earl was around, Barb was around, Bobby was around, those are just the family member's that I know of. I think even maybe Blaine might have been around.

And nope, I don't think SA would have any way of knowing if he was the last appointment or not, this is one more reason why he would have no idea that she wouldn't be reported within hours instead of days, and leaving the RAV4 there in the hopes to crush it doesn't make sense, especially if anyone is suggesting he was going to wait until everyone was gone to the cabin, that was 5 days after she was there, and not "everyone" went. Even after he knew that TH was reported missing, he had from the evening of the 3rd until he left on the 5th, maybe he couldn't crush the car, but he could have moved it off the property.

 

[missy1974]

I don't see anything wrong with using 67, I never used it but I grew up with the beginning of caller id. Now someone who has been in prison for 18 years, and now see all this new technology, I can see one wanting to stay private. Actually my parents used 67 for awhile. It was weird for them to know someone new they were calling.

I was fairly young when *67 was available where I live. As teenagers, we used it all the time, because, well, we were teenagers LOL I also recall knowing that it just blocked a number from coming up on caller ID phones, didn't block phone companies from being able to see it if needed, so it wasn't something you could do to harass someone.

 

[missy1974]

Right, which is what Zellner is doing with her expert tests and murder theories. Let's assume that BoD drove after TH on 147 at a high rate of speed - we assume it would take 30 seconds to catch her as she turned on to Kuss Road. We assume BoD then hit her with a blunt object and assume at some point BoD hid the car and assume that BoD collected blood from SA's sink on 11/3 when SA was at Menard's.

Yeah, I can see what assuming does ...

At least you were able to keep one theory together for a post. Zellner was also able to back these assumptions up with some facts by the way, you can read it in her motions. Bobby's cell phone pings, blood on the back door of the RAV4, the suggestion from an expert that bullets didn't cause the defects in the skull and it could have been a blunt force object (which would also explain the blood spatter on the door), the dogs tracking to Kuss rd, and if Bobby knew and had the opportunity to collect the blood in his trailer, so be it.

 

[Sustained]

I think they are telling IMO.
(quote)
"Cellphone tower records of SA (Steven Avery) & TH (Teresa Halbach) provide airtight alibi for him. She left property he didn't," Zellner tweeted.

If true, and usable in court, that information would poke a large hole in the prosecution's theory that the "Making a Murderer" subject killed Halbach while she was on his property taking photos of one of the many vehicles there.

Avery's lawyer then took shots at how the original trial was handled, claiming that science-based facts were ignored and witnesses who took the stand lied.


"Easy part: planting evidence. Hard part: avoiding scientific detection 10+ yrs later," she wrote before later adding "How long will the witnesses who lied at trial be protected by those who know the truth."
Steven Avery’s new lawyer says the ‘Making a Murderer’ subject has an ‘airtight alibi’ - NY Daily News

Cell phone pings are laughable at best - Zellner has TH 12 miles from the ASY @ 2:41pm.
SA called TH @ 2:25 and then again @ 2:35. According to him, she showed @ 2:35 and took ~5 minutes to photo the van and get paid. That leaves 1 minute for TH to get 12 miles from the ASY.

 

[Sustained]

Scent dogs tracked Teresa to the quarry - FACT.

Steven shown by any number of witnesses to have been at home all night - FACT.

Only one logical conclusion to be drawn from the facts: they were in two different places - FACT.

Steven somehow guilty of being in two places at once - PURE FANTASY.

LOL - please produce statements from anyone other than SA that he was in his trailer and home all night.

SA also said he was in his trailer by 9pm and watching TV @ 10 but apparently folks saw him by the fire later than that.

And BD said he helped SA moved the Rav4 to the pit.

And scent dogs are 100% accurate ?

What a joke ...

 

[Sustained]

I was fairly young when *67 was available where I live. As teenagers, we used it all the time, because, well, we were teenagers LOL I also recall knowing that it just blocked a number from coming up on caller ID phones, didn't block phone companies from being able to see it if needed, so it wasn't something you could do to harass someone.

SA was not a teenager when he used *67 to conceal his identity.

 

[Sustained]

At least you were able to keep one theory together for a post. Zellner was also able to back these assumptions up with some facts by the way, you can read it in her motions. Bobby's cell phone pings, blood on the back door of the RAV4, the suggestion from an expert that bullets didn't cause the defects in the skull and it could have been a blunt force object (which would also explain the blood spatter on the door), the dogs tracking to Kuss rd, and if Bobby knew and had the opportunity to collect the blood in his trailer, so be it.

<modsnip-no snark allowed> - Zellner is all over the map with her fantasies, cell phone pings, RH having the day planner, witnesses by the dam, blood evidence on the ignition switch.

An expert who Zellner paid ... maybe someday we'll get to hear an expert the state hires but I seriously doubt it as SA will rot in prison.

 

[Sustained]

When was he going to do it on the 31st? Family was going to be there and you have already suggested that he didn't do it because of family being there. Not everyone went to Crivitz. The business was open on the 5th, Earl was around, Barb was around, Bobby was around, those are just the family member's that I know of. I think even maybe Blaine might have been around.

And nope, I don't think SA would have any way of knowing if he was the last appointment or not, this is one more reason why he would have no idea that she wouldn't be reported within hours instead of days, and leaving the RAV4 there in the hopes to crush it doesn't make sense, especially if anyone is suggesting he was going to wait until everyone was gone to the cabin, that was 5 days after she was there, and not "everyone" went. Even after he knew that TH was reported missing, he had from the evening of the 3rd until he left on the 5th, maybe he couldn't crush the car, but he could have moved it off the property.

BBM - moved it where while taking the chance of being seen driving it ?

 

[missy1974]

What are all your opinions about the cell tower pings?

There is a thread on here that was started wayyyy back lol Phone Calls and Phone Records It would probably be interesting to read and now that we have more documents, some things make more sense, some things we still don't have the answers and I'm not sure we ever will.

TH's records do show that she hit off a tower near Whitelaw IIRC, which fits with her being near Kuss Rd. when she forwarded her last call that pinged at 2:41pm that day. She had no other calls until 4:35, so we only know that her phone was turned off between 2:41 and 4:34pm IMO I always find it kind of ironic that people that believe SA was responsible will make up an excuse for the last ping, yet believe all the other pings, like her being home all morning because of the tower's she was pinging off of. I do think she was home until shortly before 1pm, and I don't believe everything that KZ believes or has put out there.

For example, the day planner, I don't know if TH was on the road that morning or if she just fibbed to whoever she talked to and said that. It doesn't make the people that came forward liars though, it might mean that TH was making an excuse for having to find her planner or something when maybe she was still waking up and tripping over her jammers or something LOL She was a "professional" and saying 'hey, I just woke up can I get back to you when I have all my stuff in order' might not sound so professional at 11am on a work day ;-) Just like *67 can be explained by real world scenario's, I think the 'she said she had to pull over to look at her calendar' can have a real world explanation as well, if we use some logic

 

[missy1974]

Cell phone pings are laughable at best - Zellner has TH 12 miles from the ASY @ 2:41pm.
SA called TH @ 2:25 and then again @ 2:35. According to him, she showed @ 2:35 and took ~5 minutes to photo the van and get paid. That leaves 1 minute for TH to get 12 miles from the ASY.

There is a video on this thread Zellner Experiment video's that actually shows the times, the travel, etc. It's very interesting and shows the area really well and shows just how long it would take for everything to happen and for her to be near Kuss Rd. where she would have pinged off the Whitelaw tower.

ETA the thread, forget to put the link