Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Is Steven Avery responsible for the murder of Teresa Halbach?

  • He did it

    Votes: 253 29.7%
  • Some other guy did it

    Votes: 67 7.9%
  • Looks guilty at this point

    Votes: 74 8.7%
  • Not guilty based on evidence I've seen thus far

    Votes: 195 22.9%
  • Undecided, but believe new trial is in order

    Votes: 254 29.8%
  • Undecided all around; more information required

    Votes: 55 6.5%

  • Total voters
    852
Status
Not open for further replies.
I do understand what you’re saying and that’s how I’ve viewed all of the evidence presented from both sides. I’ve been extremely skeptical. With this new claim about the day planner there’s a few reasons why it appears to be solid, IMO:

- The planner was provided to the defense by the prosecution as evidence. The defense didn’t mysteriously find it.
- It’s the entire planner, not just specific pages. It has all of her appt’s, both for work & personal life...even notes jotted down on different dates about things w/ family members/friends. Family members, friends, co-workers would very easily be able to identify if this was actually her planner.
- If the day planner was being used by anyone trying to plant evidence, writing in the calendar the 2 different appt’s that TH set up during calls that day on the road just before her appt w/ SA would definitely not be beneficial to anyone except SA’s innocence. It would mean someone outside of TH & the 2 separate witnesses she spoke to on her cell would had to have somehow known what future dates they discussed & agreed on during those calls. Then they would have gone back and written those future appt’s in after she disappeared and put it in her house for the ex-boyfriend to get and provide to LE. It only hurts the prosecutions case, so why would they ever plant or provide that evidence to the defense team?
- It couldn’t be false evidence planted by SA or anyone supporting SA bc it was provided by TH’s ex-boyfriend to LE/prosecution. It didn’t come from anyone who was out to prove SA was innocent.

This is all JMO, but it’s definitely the one thing that I can’t somehow explain away.
The only thing I can think of here is that RH didn't really have her actual electronic PDA device, but was able to access her computer (I think I read MS Outlook) and printed the dayplanner page for that day. The PDA may sync with the computer in real time or on a schedule (every hour,day, etc) and therefore the appts that were made on 10/31 later showed up on the computer program. Otherwise, if RH actually had the PDA device....huge issue for him!
 
The TH case has so many diversions it’s hard to even begin to know what really happened. Of the many oddities of the case, I keep getting stuck on the phone call to dispatch that Colburn made (verifying the RAV4 tag number). Does anyone else think this was problematic and possibly indicative that they actually located the car prior to “the discovery” on the Avery’s property?
 
The TH case has so many diversions it’s hard to even begin to know what really happened. Of the many oddities of the case, I keep getting stuck on the phone call to dispatch that Colburn made (verifying the RAV4 tag number). Does anyone else think this was problematic and possibly indicative that they actually located the car prior to “the discovery” on the Avery’s property?
I'd like to read a transcript of that call. .
 
The only thing I can think of here is that RH didn't really have her actual electronic PDA device, but was able to access her computer (I think I read MS Outlook) and printed the dayplanner page for that day. The PDA may sync with the computer in real time or on a schedule (every hour,day, etc) and therefore the appts that were made on 10/31 later showed up on the computer program. Otherwise, if RH actually had the PDA device....huge issue for him!

Yea but it was handwritten
 
The following is said to be a transcript of the call:

L: Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department, this is Lynn.
AC: Lynn.
L: Hi Andy
AC: Can you run Sam William Henry five-eighty-two?
See if it comes back to that..?
L: Sam William Henry 582... I need [something] please. Ohhh, hahaha, do you speak any Spanish Andy?
AC: No [?]
L: I just got a call on the doppler. A list (?) that's mine on call didn't call me back. And when I get in trouble Andy, I get in trouble.
AC: Haha.
L: You know?! What am I supposed to do?
AC: Yeah.
L: My.. My favorite one is in the city of Manitowoc.
AC: haha
L: Umm, ok. It shows that she's a missing person. And it lists to Teresa Halbach.
AC: Ok.
L: Ok? That's what you're looking for Andy?
AC: 99 Toyota?
L: Yup.
AC: Ok, thank you.
L: You're so welcome. Bye bye.
 
The TH case has so many diversions it’s hard to even begin to know what really happened. Of the many oddities of the case, I keep getting stuck on the phone call to dispatch that Colburn made (verifying the RAV4 tag number). Does anyone else think this was problematic and possibly indicative that they actually located the car prior to “the discovery” on the Avery’s property?
Erm, yeah.
And why was he calling it in over phone, not on the radio. He was on duty.
 
The following is said to be a transcript of the call:
Sounds like he wanted to verify that he had the correct license plate number written down in his notebook and not that he was looking at the actual plate.

I often double check my own handwriting at work when I'm not sure if I got it right. JMO
 
Last edited:
This is my 1st time making a post...typically I just like reading the various viewpoints being discussed on the cases I’m following. Something introduced at the end of MaM season 2 by KZ really shocked me, though, and I’m so surprised I haven’t seen lots of talk about it.

For the record, I’ve really had an open mind about this case & have been waiting for that one piece of evidence that would lock this down for me either way.

KZ talks about TH’s day planner and the fact that it was in the possession of her ex-boyfriend, who then turns it over to LE. He was supposed to have gotten it from her house after she disappeared. KZ says there are 2 witnesses her team interviewed that say they spoke w/ TH on her cell phone the day she went to SA’s. TH told both of them she was driving in her car during those conversations. Both witnesses said they scheduled appt’s w/ her. Those appt’s do appear written in that day planner in handwriting consistent w/ TH’s other writing in that planner (photos of those entries, as well as other pages in the planner are shown). One witness even says TH told him she needed to pull over to jot their scheduled appt down. TH’s cell phone records back up these calls taking place on that day & at those times, shortly before she is known to arrive at SA’s.

How did her ex-boyfriend get ahold of this day planner if it was in her car w/ her the day that she went to SA’s and never left that property alive? If you look at the timing and the general location of her cell phone during those calls in reference to the time she is known to have gotten to SA’s, there just wasn’t enough time for her to have driven to her house and left her planner there before getting to Avery’s Salvage Yard. The prosecution has never said they believe or offered any evidence/testimony that TH was at her own home any time that afternoon.

For me, this is the huge hole in the entire case. I honestly have tried thinking of any way for this to be possible that doesn’t include something egregious and I just can’t find a scenario that works. With the majority of the evidence in this case there are things that can be disputed...experts from both camps that offer conflicting opinions, witnesses that have given inconsistent statements, claims of LE planting evidence, etc..., but this revelation about the day planner is something much more factual and not subjective, IMO.

Did anyone else have a jaw-dropping moment when this was introduced in season 2? Is there some alternate scenario I’m just not thinking of that explains this in some innocent way? I don’t think it’s proof that TH’s ex-boyfriend is responsible for her death, but it definitely supports the idea of extreme corruption in this case. To me, it literally brings this investigation back to square one because if it’s true, everything LE & the prosecution has presented is based on a theory that fundamentally could not have happened.

I mentioned this in the episode 10 thread, there are some detailed replies over there, hth!
 
Its my first time posting on this case. I am a former LEO that lives in WI, and was raised here. I don not do my policing in WI, but rather the city of Nashville TN. I have seen corruption in LE from the top down. I have been privy to low level corruption and been put in positions where I rightly told the truth because the TRUTH matters above ALL ELSE. I didn't care then if it cost an officer a promotion or his or her career and I do not care today. THAT is on them. I have read some of the case files and watched both season 1 and 2 of MAM. FACT and careful assessment of evidence is paramount. We know today that the forensic science field in essence grew too fast. Mistakes have been made often and people have languished in jail for years due to mistakes and bad science. If you asked me were their suspects you have seen who are repeatedly loathed by officers who just wish they would go away? In my experience that is a YES. IMO it is incorrect to assume dozens of people need to be on board with a railroading of a suspect for such a travesty to occur. There seems to be many incorrect assumptions in this case. There seems to be many pieces of evidence that may have been interpreted wrongly or manipulated to fit a version of events the police knowingly or unknowingly assisted in building. If you ask me whether the million dollar lawsuit has anything to do with this, I would hypothesize it does. I think it was a shotty investigation from the start and there are suspects out there feeling the heat right now. I would call SA a troubled man and I think in a way we are all troubled. I do not think he was directly involved in this crime for many reasons.

1. BD and his testimony regarding TH has been inconsistent and his behavior has been as well.

2. If we are to believe the states version of events then where was the blood evidence in the trailer consistent with such a crime?

3. Are we to believe SA killed TH when he knew Autotrader staff and others knew of her visiting the ASY, then just places the car on family property and hides a connecting piece of evidence in his room? What significance does the key have to him? why not dispose of it with the rest of the keys and property? Also, with his knowledge of Salvage yard duties and lack of knowledge in MURDER, the scene is cleaned rather well but the car is not crushed, melted, disposed of in some other way? Instead its just hidden with branches?
 
I still would like to understand why the county coroner wasn't allowed on the murder site(s) of TH and why nobody ever questioned this? If the coroner was in fact a "conflict of interest" (o_O) why, then, did they not get a different coroner from the next county or district over? That, along with so many other failures (intentional or not), is highly sketchy to say the least...
 
3. Are we to believe SA killed TH when he knew Autotrader staff and others knew of her visiting the ASY, then just places the car on family property and hides a connecting piece of evidence in his room? What significance does the key have to him? why not dispose of it with the rest of the keys and property? Also, with his knowledge of Salvage yard duties and lack of knowledge in MURDER, the scene is cleaned rather well but the car is not crushed, melted, disposed of in some other way? Instead its just hidden with branches?

RBBM Especially this!
 
Its my first time posting on this case. I am a former LEO that lives in WI, and was raised here. I don not do my policing in WI, but rather the city of Nashville TN. I have seen corruption in LE from the top down. I have been privy to low level corruption and been put in positions where I rightly told the truth because the TRUTH matters above ALL ELSE. I didn't care then if it cost an officer a promotion or his or her career and I do not care today. THAT is on them. I have read some of the case files and watched both season 1 and 2 of MAM. FACT and careful assessment of evidence is paramount. We know today that the forensic science field in essence grew too fast. Mistakes have been made often and people have languished in jail for years due to mistakes and bad science. If you asked me were their suspects you have seen who are repeatedly loathed by officers who just wish they would go away? In my experience that is a YES. IMO it is incorrect to assume dozens of people need to be on board with a railroading of a suspect for such a travesty to occur. There seems to be many incorrect assumptions in this case. There seems to be many pieces of evidence that may have been interpreted wrongly or manipulated to fit a version of events the police knowingly or unknowingly assisted in building. If you ask me whether the million dollar lawsuit has anything to do with this, I would hypothesize it does. I think it was a shotty investigation from the start and there are suspects out there feeling the heat right now. I would call SA a troubled man and I think in a way we are all troubled. I do not think he was directly involved in this crime for many reasons.

1. BD and his testimony regarding TH has been inconsistent and his behavior has been as well.

2. If we are to believe the states version of events then where was the blood evidence in the trailer consistent with such a crime?

3. Are we to believe SA killed TH when he knew Autotrader staff and others knew of her visiting the ASY, then just places the car on family property and hides a connecting piece of evidence in his room? What significance does the key have to him? why not dispose of it with the rest of the keys and property? Also, with his knowledge of Salvage yard duties and lack of knowledge in MURDER, the scene is cleaned rather well but the car is not crushed, melted, disposed of in some other way? Instead its just hidden with branches?

Welcome to the MaM forum :) Thanks for your insight! Sounds like you may have already found additional information, but just in case... all the case files, trial transcripts, photo's, LE reports can be found at www.stevenaverycase.org I can only imagine how overwhelming that site might be for someone one new looking at the case, but so much good information on it :)

ETA: if you come across a document that has been redacted, if you remove the "redacted" from the web address, you can usually get the unredacted copy. They started redacting when the subs on reddit required it to post a link. Just an FYI
 
Its my first time posting on this case. I am a former LEO that lives in WI, and was raised here. I don not do my policing in WI, but rather the city of Nashville TN. I have seen corruption in LE from the top down. I have been privy to low level corruption and been put in positions where I rightly told the truth because the TRUTH matters above ALL ELSE. I didn't care then if it cost an officer a promotion or his or her career and I do not care today. THAT is on them. I have read some of the case files and watched both season 1 and 2 of MAM. FACT and careful assessment of evidence is paramount. We know today that the forensic science field in essence grew too fast. Mistakes have been made often and people have languished in jail for years due to mistakes and bad science. If you asked me were their suspects you have seen who are repeatedly loathed by officers who just wish they would go away? In my experience that is a YES. IMO it is incorrect to assume dozens of people need to be on board with a railroading of a suspect for such a travesty to occur. There seems to be many incorrect assumptions in this case. There seems to be many pieces of evidence that may have been interpreted wrongly or manipulated to fit a version of events the police knowingly or unknowingly assisted in building. If you ask me whether the million dollar lawsuit has anything to do with this, I would hypothesize it does. I think it was a shotty investigation from the start and there are suspects out there feeling the heat right now. I would call SA a troubled man and I think in a way we are all troubled. I do not think he was directly involved in this crime for many reasons.

1. BD and his testimony regarding TH has been inconsistent and his behavior has been as well.

2. If we are to believe the states version of events then where was the blood evidence in the trailer consistent with such a crime?

3. Are we to believe SA killed TH when he knew Autotrader staff and others knew of her visiting the ASY, then just places the car on family property and hides a connecting piece of evidence in his room? What significance does the key have to him? why not dispose of it with the rest of the keys and property? Also, with his knowledge of Salvage yard duties and lack of knowledge in MURDER, the scene is cleaned rather well but the car is not crushed, melted, disposed of in some other way? Instead its just hidden with branches?

Hi & Welcome. Good post and good to get your opinion on the case. Agree with a lot of what you say as well.
What do you think about the finding of Teresa's vehicle at the ASY so quickly? That was such a huge salvage yard with heaps of cars everywhere, and IMO it would of been like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
 
I still would like to understand why the county coroner wasn't allowed on the murder site(s) of TH and why nobody ever questioned this? If the coroner was in fact a "conflict of interest" (o_O) why, then, did they not get a different coroner from the next county or district over? That, along with so many other failures (intentional or not), is highly sketchy to say the least...

And if a conflict of interest was so important to consider, why were Manitowoc LE allowed anywhere near the property, individuals who were directly involved and had been deposed in the previous case
 
And if a conflict of interest was so important to consider, why were Manitowoc LE allowed anywhere near the property, individuals who were directly involved and had been deposed in the previous case

Agree, so many questions. I think a big part of all of this is MC never in their wildest dreams expected all the backlash in this case. And especially the Netflix Series of MAM1 & now MAM2 that has done that.
It has really put it all under the microscope & scrutiny of what was this case really all about in the public eye. And if an injustice has been done it needs to be made right, otherwise what is the point of having a system of justice?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
116
Guests online
2,230
Total visitors
2,346

Forum statistics

Threads
602,236
Messages
18,137,306
Members
231,279
Latest member
skoorboh54
Back
Top