Still Asking Questions Here

[Ames]

I don't think they found any prints at all. Which is odd, because the Rs both claim to have handled it.

You are right, no Ramsey prints were found on it. The Ramsey's version is...Patsy found the note, picked it up....screamed for John...handed John the note, and for some reason, John spreads it across the floor, and gets down on his hands and knees to read it. SO...where are the Ramsey prints? IMO...this is what happened...and the reason there are no Ramsey prints....

Patsy used rubber/latex gloves (the kind that were found in her bathroom drawer) to write the note with. The note was NEVER EVER on the spiral staircase, and John never touched it. The ONLY time that Patsy touched the RN without gloves... was when she handed it over to police when they got there. And my guess is, that she was probably holding it, like a stinky diaper...just barely touching the edges. Otherwise...Ramsey prints would have been ALL over it.

 

[Ames]

Paper is not the best surface for fingerprints---particularly if the hands are dry. Hadn't thought about this before, but if the perp wrote the note without gloves on, then you'd think there would be some prints....unless he wiped the paper down.

http://www.onin.com/fp/lpfaq.html#what_kinds_of_evidence

[SIZE=+1]On what kinds of evidence can fingerprints be developed?[/SIZE]Many police will remark that a certain surface cannot be processed for fingerprints. Any surface that is about as smooth as the miniature corrugated cardboard type ridges on your fingers can potentially bear identifiable latent fingerprints... and the flexibility of the finger skin can often also conform to relatively rough surfaces such as imitation leather dashboards. Fingerprints from crime scenes have been identified on papers, cigarettes, fruit, crumpled aluminum cans, plastic garbage bags, bed sheets, rocks, dead bodies (prints on bodies are usually contaminated prints involving body fluids, lipstick or some other substance transferred via the suspect's fingers), and thousands of other surfaces
[SIZE=+1]How long do fingerprints last on evidence? [/SIZE]Fingerprints on paper, cardboard and unfinished wood can last for up to forty years (per actual casework histories) unless exposed to water (and contaminate transfer prints can even then sometimes persist). Fingerprints on non-porous surfaces such as plastic, metal and glass can last for many years if not exposed to water and if left undisturbed.

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If an intruder had of wrote the note without gloves...and had of "wiped the note down"...like "he" did the flashlight...there would have been evidence of that.

 

[Ames]

If she ate it 2,3 hours before she died then it's obvious there was no intruder feeding her.
Let's assume she ate it alone,before meeting our superman,and the R's had no idea about it.Not impossible.
But Patsy's reaction to the pineapple/bowl/glass issue makes me doubt that.
It's obvious to ME that they lied about JB being awake+they lied about the pineapple.Now why would they lie about these things??

Hmmmm....I wonder. Could be because it was easier to keep their story straight.

 

[Ravyn]

And talking about prints can anyone tell me why there was only one set of prints on the winecellar door and FW said the he open the door...

 

[Ames]

Maybe they meant fingerprints other than R's because they knew the R's both handled it.

I'd be interested in whatever palmprints were found. Usually when writing a letter by hand, one or both palms are used to hold the paper in place. Try writing a letter without touching the paper with a palm. Not easy.

04-10-2000 Good Morning America (Elizabeth Vargas) Interview with former Detective Steve Thomas

Vargas: "Were John and Patsy Ramsey's fingerprint on the ransom note?"

Thomas: "No."

Vargas: "No?"

Thomas: "No."

Vargas: (VO) "But if they found the note and picked it up, Thomas asks why their fingerprints were not on it. Did they say whether or not they had picked it up to read it?"

Thomas: "I tried to pin Patsy Ramsey down at the time of our first interview with them. Did you grab the note? Did you pick up the note? Did you clutch it in your hand and read it and run upstairs with it? Who moved it to the hardwood floor? And I couldn't get an answer to that. She didn't recall."

Vargas: "Is it possible that the parents could have handled the note and not left their fingerprints? Or that the paper for some reason didn't retain that kind of print?"

Thomas: "Certainly. But then I think the argument can be made, then when the sergeant touched the same pad, he left a fingerprint on it. When the CBI examiner touched the same pad, he left a fingerprint on it. Patsy had left previous fingerprints on that pad, five that we identified. So that remains one of the mysteries in this case. How come there's no identifiable fingerprints on this thing if one or both parents handled and grasped it that morning?"

 

[DeeDee249]

The Rs were obviously wearing latex gloves when they wrote the note. (PR had plenty of them in her bathroom- she used them when she dyed hair).
They wore the gloves for part of the staging, but maybe not when handling the flashlight (else why wipe it down- batteries, too). And of course, the bowl of pineapple had PR's prints too. Not unusual- the bowl belonged to her. What IS unusual - she denied owning it.

 

[BBB167893]

The Rs were obviously wearing latex gloves when they wrote the note. (PR had plenty of them in her bathroom- she used them when she dyed hair).
They wore the gloves for part of the staging, but maybe not when handling the flashlight (else why wipe it down- batteries, too). And of course, the bowl of pineapple had PR's prints too. Not unusual- the bowl belonged to her. What IS unusual - she denied owning it.

Now THAT's what I mean by putting the pieces together!

 

[Ravyn]

Now I read the PR admitted to writting a fake ransom note as anyone got a link to it or have that one never been seen..

 

[JMO8778]

JR obviously didn't want his stink on the note AT ALL.That's why he said it was on the floor, and he got down on his hands and knees and read it.He refused to touch it,right from the start.He wasn't the one w the gloves on...Patsy was.

Placement of the note,or rather..where Patsy *said she found it,indicates her as well.She pictured herself coming down the stairs every morning,as always,and so figured she would just say she found it there.
And that's another reason why I think 'tomorrow' in the note was the 27th.Patsy pictured herself coming down the stairs,finding the note,and so,thus reading it that AM...'tomorrow' was the next day.

'Placement' of the note was purely...PATSY.Obviously these were her ideas.

 

[madeleine]

Searching through all online documents can be SO annoying sometimes.:furious:

Some articles say there were NO prints found on the note,some say JR's ,PR's and the lab technicians prints were.

 

[madeleine]

And talking about prints can anyone tell me why there was only one set of prints on the winecellar door and FW said the he open the door...

Good question.

 

[Ravyn]

Searching through all online documents can be SO annoying sometimes.:furious:

Some articles say there were NO prints found on the note,some say JR's ,PR's and the lab technicians prints were.

I agree with you...

 

[DeeDee249]

Now I read the PR admitted to writting a fake ransom note as anyone got a link to it or have that one never been seen..

PR did not admit to writing a "fake RN". When shown the beginning of what was certainly a practice RN (that was still on the pad the RD came from, she admitted it was her handwriting and that it was a practice party invitation.
LE never questioned her about why the "practice" party invitation matched the handwriting on the RN, as far as I know.

 

[Ames]

PR did not admit to writing a "fake RN". When shown the beginning of what was certainly a practice RN (that was still on the pad the RD came from, she admitted it was her handwriting and that it was a practice party invitation.
LE never questioned her about why the "practice" party invitation matched the handwriting on the RN, as far as I know.

Right, it started..."Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey".....Patsy said that it was the start of a Christmas invitation....as in "Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey would like to invite you...." blah, blah, blah. Kinda looks like to me, that they would have compared the handwriting on both of those notes....the invitation...and the RN.

What I would like to know is this....SO where is the FINISHED party invitation? She wrote part of it out....so where is the finished product...if she decided that she would word it differently, and start all over??? I guess that Patsy wanted the authorities to believe that it was a rough draft...for an inviation, and that she was going to put the finished product...after she was done with it....onto an actual party invitation...to be mailed. But, the finished rough draft is missing.....hmmmm. Why didn't she just scratch it out, and start over....why tear out the sheet, and throw it away? Because...IMO...it was going to be the start of the RN...and then she decided that she would completely leave HER name out of it. Which, I don't blame her one bit for that...I wouldn't want MY name on a RN either. I can just imagine John...dictating to her what to write, because she was so distraught...and he said..."Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey....", and she was like..."heck no, I ain't going to put MY name on this ransom note". So, she tore it out, and threw it away...started over using Mr. Ramsey...only.

 

[DeeDee249]

Right. They wanted to make it look like it was someone targeting JR for business reasons.

 

[Ames]

Right. They wanted to make it look like it was someone targeting JR for business reasons.

And that is what John meant about it being an "inside job". If you had found a RN, and your daughter was dead in the basement of your home...and the RN referred to the "kidnappers" as members of a small foreign faction....would YOU say.."I believe its an inside job"? I wouldn't...because a SFF was taking "credit" for it, but if I KNEW that a SFF did not write that RN....then I would say that it looked like an inside job. And I believe that he said that about it being an inside job, because he didn't think that the investigators were going to fall for that SFF crap.

 

[Ravyn]

Yes,looking at the autopsy photos,it appears the one of JB's left hand with the heart,she is laying on her stomach just wondering if evidence was found on the front and back of JB...

 

[DeeDee249]

And that is what John meant about it being an "inside job". If you had found a RN, and your daughter was dead in the basement of your home...and the RN referred to the "kidnappers" as members of a small foreign faction....would YOU say.."I believe its an inside job"? I wouldn't...because a SFF was taking "credit" for it, but if I KNEW that a SFF did not write that RN....then I would say that it looked like an inside job. And I believe that he said that about it being an inside job, because he didn't think that the investigators were going to fall for that SFF crap.

My feeling is the Rs had a "short list" (later GREATLY expanded) of people they wanted to pin this on. LHP was at the top of that list, along with Santa Bill. LHP was considered first - she had a key and knew the family intimately. She was short of money. She didn't have the social, financial or educational resources to defend herself. So when JR said immediately after bringing his daughter up from the basement, instead of STAGGERING grief at the horror of what he found he looks Det.. Arndt in the eye and cooly says "this was an inside job".

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi DeeDee.

I've been wondering about LHP and the amount of the 2 000 the Ramseys were going to loan her. At minimum wage she would have had to bank a lot of hours to repay it.

iirc She never did receive the money. LHP said it would be left for her when she returned post Christmas, to work for the Ramseys. When reading links online re LHP, LHP claimed that the Ramseys still owed her money.

I was wondering if you knew any more about the loan. Was it to be paid in cash .... or did LHP have to pay it off with interest? Was there a written agreement?

any details would be appreciated.

 

[DeeDee249]

Not much else is known about the loan. PR wrote LHP a check and said she was leaving it on the counter for LHP to collect when she came after Christmas. It wasn't going to be cash. I don't know if the Rs owed her money for her cleaning services, but I assume LHP meant that and not the $2000 loan.
I believe she intended to pay Patsy back.
Obviously, she never got the check.