Stungun marks

[Barbara]

"her body"? To you its a corpse, to them its their lovely daughter who should be allowed to rest in peace.

I wonder if she is really "resting in peace" while her family, friends and just as disgusting, certain "internet" personalities use that lovely daughter's name and murder as MARKETING tools for $$$$ while a possible tool to help find her killer was deliberately turned down in the name of letting her rest in peace.

The Ram$eys have learned that true justice is just not profitable enough

 

[Maxi]

Some people believe in the literal physical resurrection of the body on Judgement Day. I don't think this applies to the Ramseys, since they told Burke JonBenet had gone to heaven, but maybe there is some level of this kind of concern.

 

[Barbara]

Some people believe in the literal physical resurrection of the body on Judgement Day. I don't think this applies to the Ramseys, since they told Burke JonBenet had gone to heaven, but maybe there is some level of this kind of concern.

Anything is possible, but I would imagine if they believed in the physical resurrection of the body, we would have heard that endlessly when questioned about exhumation. John never mentioned any "religious" reason why they wouldn't exhume. Every reason given thus far has been about disturbing her or not letting her rest in peace.

I believe Jehova's Witnesses describe the resurrection in the next life, if you have been "saved", but I get confused about exactly what form of Christianity the Ramseys follow. (A million follow up "remarks" come to mind after typing that sentence, but out of my deep respect for Maxi, I will refrain :blowkiss: ) ................today

 

[txsvicki]

I'm confused. A nurse didn't look at Jon Benet's body and say the marks were burns? If I'm not mistaken, the poster who mentioned a nurse was talking about a case that was on television a few weeks back. The woman's daughter had been murdered and she had a pattern of marks on her body. The nurse did tell the investigators later on that the marks were burns, and she was right.

 

[Toth]

Thats right.

 

[Maxi]

The Ramseys attended a Presbyterian church in Atlanta and an Episcopal church in Boulder. My recollection is that Patsy is a charismatic Christian. There are charismatic groups within most traditional denominations now.

 

[Barbara]

The Ramseys attended a Presbyterian church in Atlanta and an Episcopal church in Boulder. My recollection is that Patsy is a charismatic Christian. There are charismatic groups within most traditional denominations now.

Are there many differences between the different Christianities? Is it common for Christians to change churches and affiliations? As someone who is Jewish I have no idea. Everyone I know of the Christian faith is either Roman Catholic and has never changed affiliations or Protestant and also never change churches.

 

[K777angel]

There are nearly 30,000 different "denominations" in Protestant christianity.
Protestants often "change" churches. None of the thousands of protestant denominations agree on what is "truth" - or there would be but ONE protestant church.

Roman Catholics, believing the Catholic church, the oldest and first of all christian churches, has the "fullness of truth" and while the human beings in it are imperfect - the church itself is not merely a human, but divine institution
guaranteed by Christ himself that the "gates of hell would NEVER prevail against it." And it hasn't.
A fundemental difference between protestant and Catholic christians.

Hope that helps some.

 

[Maxi]

Barbara, there are lots of different Protestant denominations. Within those denominations, there are varying forms of worship -- sometimes, even within the same church. The charismatic worship Patsy seemed to prefer involves direct supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit like healings and speaking in tongues. This style of worship became so popular in the 70's and 80's that mainline Protestant (and some Catholic) churches allowed congregation members to form charismatic worship groups within their church community. I first ran into this when a Greek Orthodox mom at my son's school told me of speaking in tongues -- definitely not a part of traditional Greek Orthodox practice!

I've noticed that people who are into charismatic worship often are not as tied to a particular Protestant denomination as more orthodox parishioners. I suspect the Ramseys chose the Episcopal church in Boulder for either social reasons or because they had a flourishing charismatic subculture.

To me, Patsy's charismatic Christian beliefs and practices become important because they could mask psychotic thinking. IMO, her parts of DOI reflect a very superstitious mind as well. Dale Yeager takes this one step farther when he says that charismatic Christians are more prone to psychosis than other people. I think that's a crock, but I think he may be touching on a possibile answer to why no one reported Patsy acting peculiar in the times immediately before and after JBR's murder.

 

[Ivy]

Gnosticism predates the Roman Catholic Church and is much closer to true Christianity than are Paul's teachings, which constitute the main belief system of the Catholic Church. Not even the Pope claims that Paul knew the historical Jesus but accepts Paul's claim that Jesus communicated with him in a vision. Paul became an avid persecutor of Gnostic Jews and Christians, and of members of other religious sects of his day as well.

Evangalism is paulian. When the Apocalypse didn't happen immediately as Paul predicted, to save face he devised the concept of evangalism which teaches that only when the whole word has been converted to Christianity will Christ return.

After seriously researching and studying religion, including Christianity, for many years, I've concluded that all religions are bogus. I couldn't resist disputing the notion that the Catholic Church--much less that it alone--is a divine institution.

 

[Barbara]

Wow, you guys are really amazing. Thank you so much for all that information. So very interesting

Maxi,

If Charismatic Christianity is Patsy's form of worship and that involves the supernatural, why would it have been so objectionable when the psychic issue was happening and they denied approving it, etc.? Unless memory is truly failing, wasn't there a religious reason they wouldn't/couldn't consult a psychic and the infamous sketch was removed from the now defunct website?

K777,

Thanks so much for the descriptions. It was helpful

Ivy,

I'm not much of a religion person either. I understand exactly what you are saying.

 

[Toltec]

That's right, Shylock, not the least of which is the fact that he had previously smacked JonBenét in the face with a golf club.


Exactly, Ivy, and I was just about to point this out for the umpteenth time when you beat me to it... lol. A stun gun is not exculpatory for a Ramsey, especially considering the video with stun gun info found in the home.

Patsy also claims that Burke smacked JB in the leg with the golf club...

I don't believe this has ever been discussed...there is a photo of Burke and JonBenet in their backyard with Burke holding a baseball bat and JonBenet wearing a glove...who gave Burke the black eye?

 

[Maxi]

Maxi,

If Charismatic Christianity is Patsy's form of worship and that involves the supernatural, why would it have been so objectionable when the psychic issue was happening and they denied approving it, etc.? Unless memory is truly failing, wasn't there a religious reason they wouldn't/couldn't consult a psychic and the infamous sketch was removed from the now defunct website?

There is an injunction in the Bible not to have dealings with soothsayers, etc. I can't remember the specifics of why Sketchman got booted from the Ramsey website. I do remember the topic coming up briefly in the Ramseys' CBN interview.

 

[BlueCrab]

I for one have never considered evidence of a stun gun having been used on JonBenet as exculpatory evidence for the Ramseys. The parents wouldn't have likely used a stun gun on JonBenet, but Burke could have. If Burke had an overnight guest, that kid could have used it.

IMO the parents don't want the body exhumed because it would prove that a stun gun WAS used on JonBenet; and some day the evidence will be available to show that the Ramseys owned a stun gun or are aware of who brought one into the house that night.

The stun gun marks are clearly right there on JonBenet's body. Someone did it. JonBenet, by the tortured marks on her body, is trying to tell us to find the owner of the stun gun and we will find who killed her.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Shylock]

IMO the parents don't want the body exhumed because it would prove that a stun gun WAS used on JonBenet; and some day the evidence will be available to show that the Ramseys owned a stun gun or are aware of who brought one into the house that night.

BlueCrab, what you said here makes no sense at all. The Pro-Rammers already believe a stungun was used on JB. They don't need the body exhumed to support their foolish beliefs. So if it's proven someday that the Rams owned a stungun, their supporters will turn to the Rams for whatever lame excuse they have to offer, then they'll start spewing some BS about how the "intruder with inside knowledge" found the stungun which JR had hidden from the kids and long forgotten about...blah-blah-blah.

In reality, the Ram$eys know if the body is exhumed, the stungun is down the drain, Smit looks like a fool, and one more piece of their so-called "intruder evidence" has bit the dust--making them look that much more guilty. That's the REAL reason they didn't exhume her body a LONG time ago.

 

[Nehemiah]

Some people believe in the literal physical resurrection of the body on Judgement Day. I don't think this applies to the Ramseys, since they told Burke JonBenet had gone to heaven, but maybe there is some level of this kind of concern.

I think you are correct, Maxi, to say that this wouldn't apply to the Ramseys. In charismatic Christianity, they would believe that JB's soul was already in heaven and only her body is buried. I know some Christians who don't visit their children's graves due to this belief; in other words, there is no point to visit a grave for them.

 

[tipper]

I think people's feelings on this aren't necessarily logical. If it were the only people embalmed and buried would be those whose belief said they would be needing their bodies later on. Everyone else would be incinerated and used as land-fill. Although I probably would have chosen to have her exhumed when the subject first came up, I don't have a problem with their choosing not to. I think they were emotionally exhausted and had long since given up most of their hope that the killer would ever be found. Their little girl had been called everything from a *advertiser censored* to a hooker and I can understand their wanting to let her rest in peace.

 

[Nehemiah]

I think that is a good point, Tipper. I have no idea what I would do if I were in that position, even though I believe that the soul is absent from the body. People under the stress of death do not always act the way they would in other circumstances.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab, what you said here makes no sense at all. The Pro-Rammers already believe a stungun was used on JB. They don't need the body exhumed to support their foolish beliefs.

The so-called "Pro-Rammers" aren't the only ones who believe a stun gun was likely used on JonBenet. Most of the forensic experts involved in this case also believe the marks on JonBenet are consistent with stun gun injuries.

The only forensic pathologist who studied the marks and measured them on the body and who performed the autopsy -- Dr. John Meyer -- says the marks are consistent with stun gun marks.

Dr. Robert Deters, a pathologist who had experience on a case involving the stungunning of a 13 month old child, stated the injuries on JonBenet were consistent with the marks left by a stun gun.

Dr. Deters also said it wasn't necessary to exhume the body of JonBenet because nothing new would be learned by examining the skin tissue.

Dr. Michael Dobersen, a national expert on stun gun injuries, said the marks appear to match the marks of a stun gun.

 

[Shylock]

Most of the forensic experts involved in this case also believe the marks on JonBenet are consistent with stun gun injuries.

And not one of the people you mentioned has ever even held a stungun. Meanwhile, the only real expert on stunguns, Dr. Robert Stratbucker, says that group shouldn't even be commenting on a stungun because not one of them would know a stungun from a watermelon. So sighting any of those yahoos really is a waste of time.

Besides.... Listing all those fools, like Doberson who can't make up his mind or keep his own comments straight, had nothing to do with the topic which was exhumation.