SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[twall]

Yes, they did plead guilty. Have you ever heard of a person on death row subsequently pleading guilty and being released?

Many of those who believe the WM3 are guilty cite all sorts of evidence, like two confessions by Misskelley, candle wax, statements of witnesses (none of whom are dead, to my knowledge), fiber evidence, blood on a necklace, Echol's psych records, etc. Wouldn't that be enough to convict them again should the matter be retried? It's certainly enough for many here to believe they are stone cold guilty.

So why were they released, one from death row? That has never happened before. Never.

Three little boys were found beaten to death/drowned in the woods. Their naked bodies had been hogtied. How could any prosecutor ever, agree to the release of the three murderers for such a crime?

And please don't tell me that the state was so afraid of some powerful celebrities. These are the celebrities who support Mumia Abu Jamal:

Adjoa A. Aiyetoro,
Shana Alexander,
Laurie Anderson,
Maya Angelou,
Paul Auster,
Alec Baldwin,
Russell Banks,
John Perry Barlow,
Richard J. Barnet,
Derrick Bell,
Dennis Brutus,
David Byrne,
Naomi Campbell,
Robbie Conal,
Denise Caruso,
Noam Chomsky,
Richard A. Cloward,
Ben Cohen ,
Kerry Kennedy Cuomo,
Ron Daniels,
U.S. Rep. Ronald V. Dellums,
Dominique de Menil,
Jacques Derrida,
David Dinkins,
E. L. Doctorow ,
Roger Ebert,
Jason Epstein,
Susan Faludi,
Mike Farrell,
Timothy Ferris,
Eileen Fisher,
Henry Louis Gates,
Terry Gilliam,
Danny Glover,
Leon Golub,
Nadine Gordimer,
Stephen Jay Gould,
Günter Grass,
Herbert Chao Gunther,
Jack Healey,
Edward S. Herman,
Jim Hightower,
James Hillman,
bell hooks,
Molly Ivins,
Bill T. Jones,
June Jordan,
Mitchell Kapor,
Casey Kasem,
C. Clark Kissinger,
Herbert Kohl,
Jonathan Kozol,
Tony Kushner,
John Landis,
Spike Lee,
Edward Lewis,
Maya Lin,
Norman Mailer,
Frederick Marx,
Nion McEvoy,
Bobby McFerrin,
Susan Meiselas,
Nancy Meyer,
Pedro Meyer,
Jessica Mitford,
Michael Moore,
Frank Moretti,
James Parks Morton,
Paul Newman,
Peter Norton,
Joyce Carol Oates,
Dean Ornish, MD,
Grace Paley,
Alan Patricof,
Martin D. Payson,
Frances Fox Piven,
Katha Pollit,
Sister Helen Prejean, CSJ,
Charles B. Rangel,
Adrienne Rich,
Tim Robbins,
David A. Ross,
Salman Rushdie,
Susan Sarandon,
Charles C. Savitt,
André Schiffrin,
Peter Sellers,
Nancy Spero,
Art Spiegelman,
Bob Stein,
Gloria Steinem,
Sting,
Michael Stipe,
Oliver Stone,
Brian Stonehill,
Nadine Strossen,
Trudie Styler,
William Styron,
Edith Tiger,
Edward R. Tufte,
Eric Utne,
Bill Viola,
Alice Walker,
Cornel West,
Marc Weiss,
John Edgar Wideman,
Garry Wills,
Joanne Woodward, and
Peter Yarrow

He still sits on death row.

They were released because they are innocent but the state of Arkansas won't admit it.
I don't think they're guilty.
Just pointing out they pled guilty but maintain their innocence, as do I.

 

[Nyla4]

I will never forget when Hobb's got his teeth pulled knowing that LE wanted to take impressions of his teeth to compare to the bitemarks on the bodies.
Next his 2nd wife mysteriously died?!?!

That wasn't Hobbs. That was JMB. I agree with you though it is scary that his wife died mysteriously. Poor Christopher, Stevie, and Michael will never get justice. I pray that Damien, Jason, and Jessie do keep pursuing who the killer is to clear their names so that the murdered boys get justice. I admit I always leaned heavy toward the non side but when I ask myself would I admit guilt to get out of prison the answer is yes. Does anyone know why Jessie wasn't part of the celebration party?

Another question I have is who get the money now? Does Damien get to keep it all or does it get split three ways? Can Mr. and Mrs. Moore and Mr. Branch sue and get all the money?

I'm happy for everyone who always believed in their innocence and feel bad for those who feel justice was perverted by this. Would someone please throw some softballs at me to get me off the darn fence I'm on :crazy: Each side has to good of a case for innocence and guilt for me.

 

[~n/t~]

This really has nothing to do with anything, but this morning (I was away all weekend) on the Today show coverage of the release and the three at a news conference of some sort it appeared to me that DE was doing his best Johnny Depp impersonation.

I'm so glad you brought that up. I thought I was the only one and was to embarrassed to post it. :floorlaugh:

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I did not mean to drive the topic to things Natalie Maine's said in the past I just made a flip comment about not liking her and then had a knee jerk reaction to her being called a national treasure. So because I feel like I've given off the wrong idea of all I believe, I do believe she has the right to say whatever she wants and however she feels and support whomever she wants. I have no doubt Nova meant no offense nor do I and I apologize. (as one last side note I actually think Natalie is a talanted singer, my opinions just differ with her and she rubs me the wrong way personally, that's my own problem)

I didn't mean to appear that I was jumping off your post on the Natalie Maines thing. It is strictly coincidence that the Natalie Maines thing was one of the things that made me see our rights so much clearer. It could have been anyone who said anything. It was more my friend Charlie's statement that did it for me and it carries more weight for me than average people off the street stating so because he did serve for more than 20 years. It just put things into perspective that we, as citizens need to be vigilant at home, so that our soldiers don't come home and see that we are chipping away at the rights they fight to preserve.

 

[~n/t~]

Memorable quotes for
Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills (1996)




Damien Wayne Echols: I knew from when I was real small people were gonna know who I was, I always had that feeling... I just never knew how they were gonna learn. I kind of enjoy it now because even after I die, people are gonna remember me forever. People are gonna talk about me for years. People in West Memphis will tell their kids stories... It'll be sorta like I'm the West Memphis boogie man. Little kids will be looking under their beds - "Damien" might be under there.

 

[twall]

I understand how it worked as far as what the public sees and I think that when gitana1 said that she doesn't understand how it happened she means the same thing that I do when I say that I don't understand how it happened (if not I apologize gitana1, and please feel free to call me out on it).

What the public sees in these cases is one thing, but there are tons of procedural rules that the public usually never sees that are behind the scenes. In my state, this NEVER would have happened. If the person is not granted a new trial, then their only recourse is a conditional or absolute pardon from a governor. I am happy that they have been freed, but I don't understand how they got around the procedural rules to let this happen. Having already been sentenced, normally someone can't give a plea after trial. It would stand to reason that the only way they could give a plea is after the hearing in December and even then, only if they had been granted the new trial. A new trial here is up to the attorney general if the court won't or can't grant a new trial due to rules of procedure. I would be very interested to find out how they were able to pull this off.

I hope this explains how this occured, the legalities of it, I mean.

Defense attorney Dennis Riordan said: "Well look at the court documents because what the State agreed to today was a finding by the court, in granting the new trial, that there was such compelling new evidence of DNA and all along with all the other evidence, that no reasonable jury would convict these defendants at a new trial. That finding had to be made before the plea could be entered. And I think it's an implicit recognition by the State that that is the finding that would be made in December."

My words: The original verdicts and convictions were tossed and are no more. This was done by Judge Laser based on his finding that there was compelling evidence that a new jury would acquit the WM3 of any guilt of this crime. The Prosecutor confirmed his belief that, but for this deal, Judge Laser would probably have granted a new trial and a new jury would probably acquit the WM3.

After Judge Laser tossed the convictions from 1994, the WM3, upon advice of counsel and pursuant to an agreement with the State, entered pleas of guilty to the murders of Stevie, Michael and Chris because it was in their best interests (they got their freedom) and not because they were actually guilty. This type of plea is allowed when the State has strong proof of guilt and could probably obtain a conviction even though the defendant maintains innocence. Judge Laser, who had just found compelling evidence that a new jury would acquit, accepted their pleas, found them guilty and imposed new sentences equal to time served plus an additional sentence that was suspended.

This is hypocrisy, not justice. It is not over until the real killer is charged and tried for these murders. Why would a judge and the state of Arkansas let 3 child killers walk out of prison as free men? Because they know they are innocent but won't admit the justice system in the state of Arkansas failed! As for the WM3, I wish them Godspeed and pray they can indeed enjoy the remainders of their lives and make us proud. As for the defense team, a well done. The three are free.

JMO

The full video of the hearing can be seen here:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/ParadiseLost3?sk=app_190322544333196

 

[Robinez]

http://twitter.com/#!/ashblackstone
@ashblackstone
WM3 Paradise Lost HBO filmakers also are here in support if [sic] the defendents. #WM3
5 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/ashblackstone
@ashblackstone
Natalie Maines of the DIxie Chicks just walked in. She's is [sic] a WM3 supporter. Round of applause from crowd. #WM3
13 minutes ago

(@ashblackstone is reported for LR news station KTHV.)

Can you just picture what Judge Perry would do to anyone that applauded in his courtroom? :floorlaugh:

TC, Robin

 

[gitana1]

They were released because they are innocent but the state of Arkansas won't admit it.
I don't think they're guilty.
Just pointing out they pled guilty but maintain their innocence, as do I.

Yes, that was actually the point I was trying to make in my post. I just cannot see prosecutors, who know in their hearts and minds that three men currently convicted and sentenced for the hideous, torture murders of three beautiful, innocent little boys, let those men walk out prison as free men, not even with travel restrictions or the supervised probation, regardless if celebs championed their cause and regardless if a new trial would cost the state an arm and a leg.

If truly that is what happened, then these prosecutors need to be run out of office. Because that means they sold their souls, and justice for three darling children, and allowed three, frightening and ruthless baby killers to be unleashed on the public at large after having received zero rehabilitation of any kind.

But, I don't think that's what happened. I think the state knew they had a bum case against those guys. :twocents:

 

[Wishbone]

I just listened too..wow, he was thanking all of the people that helped the defense, and he said this will never take away the pain of the families of the victims or the families of the defendents and that it was a tragedy for everyone...it sounds to me like he was (as best he could) saying that they should not have ever been convicted...jmo....

That's the way it sounded to me too. WOW, the judge as much as admitted that the evidence to originally convict the WM3 just wasn't there at their trial. I haven't followed this case all that much except for watching Paradise Lost and reading a few articles so I couldn't say with any confidence that I was sure of their guilt or not(I did have big doubts on them being guilty though). After listening to the judge I would have to say I'm seeing the three as having been railroaded many years ago.

 

[twall]

Can you just picture what Judge Perry would do to anyone that applauded in his courtroom? :floorlaugh:

TC, Robin

I did read a Tweet right before the hearings started that Judge Laser would not allow anyone in the courtroom who was wearing shorts!

Did you see all the security watching the gallery? Intense.

I know he is angry and hurting but I had to chuckle at Steve Branch Sr. getting escorted out of the courtroom, deja vu from 18 yrs. ago...does anyone else recall the "I'll chase you all the way to hell!!" outburst at the WM3 arraignments? Some people never learn!

 

[maxicut]

Mumia Abu Jamal, who was a member of the Black Panthers that fought against police brutality, supposedly shot a member of law enforcement (a member of "the club"). Under these circumstances, Elijah in his fiery chariot would have difficulty freeing Mumia Abu Jamal; celebrities don't stand a chance.

Question. Was that statement a quote or a personal opinion?
moo

 

[Nyla4]

He sure does. Laughs about it too.
I watched Part 1 again Saturday. I will try to watch Part 2 Sunday. I have a big rally to attend later this morning but will try to find specific quotes and approx. tape time for you when I get back.

Much hinky stuff went on that many chose to ignore. Thankfully comments were caught on the P Lost tapes. Teeth pulled. A wife mysteriously dies. A knife similar to one thought used found in a murdered child's home.

There's lots more.

I highly recommend the 48 hour show linked above.

As I recall LE didn't want his impressions. According to LE they had the killers so why would they want impressions of his teeth? It was some hack the defense hired that wanted his impressions. As I remember he has given multiple reasons of why he had his teeth pulled. IMO JMB is a . He beat poor Christopher with a belt before he went missing and Christopher's autopsy showed older healed and healing cuts and bruises from being hit.

 

[maxicut]

This is important for people not understanding that the state had proof of guilt. Here is the plea video that Twall posted earlier. It's a 30 minute video, but you can bump it up to 9:20 and listen to the State's statement. The Prosecutor said that they have evidence that would convict all three.

Here is Twall's post
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August


In my opinion I think the State is running low on money. All three got new trials and were awaiting DNA evidence (yet to be announced). If the State had to do all three trials again (of course you know they are paying for both sides X3). One is a death penalty case to boot. Once they are convicted then all the appeals begin all over again and they have to pay for that too.

I believe that when the defense came to the Prosecutor with a plea offer they took it because of the money/time involved and with them already serving 18+ years (Arkansas has time off for good behavior) that they just let it go.

Contrary to what you posted, there is no evidence that points to the West Memphis Three's guilt of committing the crimes. The state said what it did for one purpose only, to cover its own *advertiser censored*. The state knew if this case went to retrial, that they (the state) would look more idiotic than before. The only thing the state had left was the Alford Plea offer.

moo

 

[Nyla4]

I think it's also very alarming that AH not only talks about abuse by her father TH but also his friend DJ.The same guy who's DNA was found at the crime scene.

Is there anywhere you can link this? I've never heard about any abuse claims by DJ and would love to read up on it. TIA!

 

[maxicut]

I'm so glad you brought that up. I thought I was the only one and was to embarrassed to post it. :floorlaugh:

Imo it's not funny at all.
I find it shameful and immature to poke fun of this man the day he was freed after 19 years of wrongful imprisonment.

The WM3 were the second set of victims in this case.

The first set of victims were the murdered little boys.

moo

 

[maxicut]

Memorable quotes for
Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills (1996)




Damien Wayne Echols: I knew from when I was real small people were gonna know who I was, I always had that feeling... I just never knew how they were gonna learn. I kind of enjoy it now because even after I die, people are gonna remember me forever. People are gonna talk about me for years. People in West Memphis will tell their kids stories... It'll be sorta like I'm the West Memphis boogie man. Little kids will be looking under their beds - "Damien" might be under there.

What's the point of the quote?

 

[Nova]

I did not mean to drive the topic to things Natalie Maine's said in the past I just made a flip comment about not liking her and then had a knee jerk reaction to her being called a national treasure. So because I feel like I've given off the wrong idea of all I believe, I do believe she has the right to say whatever she wants and however she feels and support whomever she wants. I have no doubt Nova meant no offense nor do I and I apologize. (as one last side note I actually think Natalie is a talented singer, my opinions just differ with her and she rubs me the wrong way personally, that's my own problem)

No harm done, indicat, and certainly no offense taken on my part.

 

[maxicut]

That's the way it sounded to me too. WOW, the judge as much as admitted that the evidence to originally convict the WM3 just wasn't there at their trial. I haven't followed this case all that much except for watching Paradise Lost and reading a few articles so I couldn't say with any confidence that I was sure of their guilt or not(I did have big doubts on them being guilty though). After listening to the judge I would have to say I'm seeing the three as having been railroaded many years ago.

Spending 19 years in prison. How did these men get through each day knowing they were imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit? Brings to mind,
There is always hope.

moo

 

[Nova]

Imo it's not funny at all.
I find it shameful and immature to poke fun of this man the day he was freed after 19 years of wrongful imprisonment.

The WM3 were the second set of victims in this case.

The first set of victims were the murdered little boys.

moo

Has Echols even had access to Johnny Depp films for the past 18 years? How would he have learned to imitate Depp?

 

[UdbCrzy2]

STATE OF ARKANSAS
BOARD OF CORRECTION AND COMMUNITY PUNISHMENT

SUBJECT: MERITORIOUS GOOD TIME

DEFINITIONS.
A. Meritorious Good Time - a reduction in an inmate's parole or transfer eligibility date
up to 30 days for each month incarcerated after imposition of sentence.

http://www.dcc.arkansas.gov/pdfs/policies/meritorious_ar.pdf

______________________________

A lady I know, her daughter was murdered and the guy went to prison for 1st degree murder and kidnapping and after 12 years he was granted a new trial on appeal. He plead guilty and was released due to the 'good time' sentencing provision.

So don't say it doesn't happen because it does.

Most people don't know that they only serve a portion of their sentences depending on the crime. In Missouri a life sentence is considered 30-years, if it's 2nd degree murder then they only have to serve 85%. If it's a lesser murder then it's even less.

So don't say it does not happen because it really does, you just never hear about it...

______________________________________________

Since this whole thing is about the death penalty (that's why antis celebs are involved), I will say this that right now there is only 40 people on death row and the last one to be executed was in 2005.

Death Row Arkansas
http://adc.arkansas.gov/inmates/Pages/deathRow.aspx

Executions
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/vie...xec_date&sort=desc&exec_name_1=&sex=All&state[0]=AR&sex_1=All&federal=All&foreigner=All&juvenile=All&volunteer=All