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Wait a minute. How do we know that Kaine is right? How does he know for sure that she had the baby with her. Did Terri tell him that? Did he assume it? Did he actually see Terri and baby K together all day long? :waitasec:

Exactly - that is what I was getting at earlier. Terri could have told Kaine she was taking baby K with her, or told him she did - but then she didn't. So, Kaine made that statement that Terri had baby K with her because he really thought that was the case - because it's what she told him. I would however think that if she did not have baby K with her and he is saying she did - LE would have checked it out already.
 
what would the baby know about anything? What would it matter?
 
what would the baby know about anything? What would it matter?

The baby wouldn't necessarily know anything. But, to my thinking at least, that's not the point. I think having baby with her (1) rules out a potentially very solid witness on several issues (a sitter); (2) maybe creates another, less solid, witness (childcare at the gym?) since TH could possibly claim she was at the gym even if she left after dropping baby off. I think it might be more difficult for LE to prove that TH did leave unless the entire gym has cameras; and (3) having a baby in tow could make it much more difficult to pull something off. Which, to me, makes the accomplice scenario more likely. jmoo
 
what would the baby know about anything? What would it matter?

Its not so much due to the baby being a material witness for obvious reasons. It would matter in that, if the baby was with her that day, she would have been more noticeable in the school - especially if the baby had been fussy while they walked the displays of the science fair. At that age they don't like being held and are really into their newfound freedom of walking and running.

Then of course, if the baby wasn't with her, where was she? If she was elsewhere it would possibly add to other lies Terri has said about that morning and her 'alibi'.
 
I would say that Terri had the baby with her at school that day. I'm sure those few people, or children, who saw Kyron with his mom could verify if the baby was there.

I am amazed at some of the perplexities of this case....I'm not really sure where to put them. But realizing how closely Desiree and Kaine have become in standing against Terri. And yet it was only 7 years ago, while she was pregnant, that Desiree filed divorce proceedings....and she took out the restraining order on Kaine because she was fearful he would take the children from her. Hmmm.....

http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/
 
Its not so much due to the baby being a material witness for obvious reasons. It would matter in that, if the baby was with her that day, she would have been more noticeable in the school - especially if the baby had been fussy while they walked the displays of the science fair. At that age they don't like being held and are really into their newfound freedom of walking and running.

Then of course, if the baby wasn't with her, where was she? If she was elsewhere it would possibly add to other lies Terri has said about that morning and her 'alibi'.

Yep. Forgot about that one for a sec. I think it's really weird that there's nothing out there at all linking baby girl to the school that morning if TH had her for sure. At least I don't know of anything.
 
Yep. Forgot about that one for a sec. I think it's really weird that there's nothing out there at all linking baby girl to the school that morning if TH had her for sure. At least I don't know of anything.

Oh my, I thought someone on this thread said Kaine told us baby girl was with mom that day and that they went to the gym, shopping, etc. moo
 
Yep. Forgot about that one for a sec. I think it's really weird that there's nothing out there at all linking baby girl to the school that morning if TH had her for sure. At least I don't know of anything.

Isn't it, though? It must be an important clue, if LE hasn't confirmed it one way or another, imo.
 
BBM

Actually, not that long ago there was a murder conviction near me (Fort Worth I think) that was tried without the body being found.

I can't imagine its an easy case to prosecute, and its rare, but can be done:

http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/

Yes... it can be... but not without some indication or evidence of a murder. LE has said they do not have anything to point to Kyron being dead.
 
Yes... it can be... but not without some indication or evidence of a murder. LE has said they do not have anything to point to Kyron being dead.


Now, see I don't know what to make of that statement. I can remember that one presser clear as day, that Saturday morning where the mood had clearly changed from the day before and all the other pressers. The officer who was addressing the press clearly got bad news about something between the end of the previous presser and that morning. His voice was cracking, he was teary and Desiree looked like it took an act of God to keep her composure - she looked absolutely crushed. So what had taken place that lead to that drastic change in mood? This was, I believe, about a week before Kaine left his house with the baby, possibly two but no more.
 
When traumatic events happen in our lives, it is normal and usual to remember every little detail surrounding those events.

I was in a serious car accident 28 years ago. To this day I remember what I was wearing, what I ate for dinner beforehand, what kind/color car I was riding in, how long my hair was, what the wrecked car smelled like, the name of the man who held the towel to my bleeding head, the misty rain that was falling, the time, temperature, and everything else. I can play it in my head like a recording.

Same for my wedding day. Same for the births of my children. We forget details from days that have no meaning. We remember details from days when important things happen.

I think it is highly suspicious that Terri would forget exactly the who/what/why/where/when and how of everything she did that day. She would have been asked to recite her day within hours of the events. Unless you have had a brain injury, you would remember what you did earlier in the day.

I'm glad I've never been suspected of a serious crime because my memory doesn't work that way at all.

I can remember a couple details from each of my wedding days but those memories only bridge a few minutes, maximum.

I was in a car accident that left me with six broken ribs, a broken clavicle and a bunch of cuts and bruises... and I remember almost nothing of that day. I remember one flash of the actual accident, looking to the side and seeing the car headed directly at me (we were T-boned). I don't remember at all what the actual impact was like. I know that people stopped to help, that there were three ambulances, etc, but I don't have any continuous memories, it's just flashes here and there. The accident is generally a big blur with the occasional scene that stands out clearly.

In fact, come to think of it, I remember very little of how the ribs hurt for the next two months. I know they did and I remember little flashes, like the immense relief when my mother would strap them up. But the pain itself and the things I had to do in my every day life to compensate? Completely gone.

I remember very little of the day I was raped. Just flashes of the actual event. In fact, that added to the trouble I was in because I couldn't remember that evening what my homework assignments were from that day, so I couldn't do them (very unusual for me).

Where my memory is crystal clear is in my professional field. I don't think I have forgotten a single client or the salient details of their interactions with me. I remember clearly tiny details of expression, etc, for many, many years.

I've never thought I was in any way unusual or weird. I just always figured that different people's memories work differently.

Of course, there is the chance that I am totally weird. I have no way of knowing, really.
 
Oh my, I thought someone on this thread said Kaine told us baby girl was with mom that day and that they went to the gym, shopping, etc. moo

yes, yes...I meant if what KH just said is true, it's weird that there has been nothing else at all previous to that. I have a longer post above about it.
 
I do think he tells the truth about some things.

If he was not with her, he wouldn't be positive, unless he talked to someone at the school and they told him they saw the baby that day.
No one is saying he is lying, just that he was not there.
 
Hi - my first post.

If the baby was with Terri at the school do we know whether or not she was in a stroller? I guess not if Terri was seen walking up stairs though I haven't seen any mention of the baby being seen with her The reason I ask is that depending on the size of the stroller it could maybe be a good way to smuggle a small child out of the school and elsewhere without anybody knowing.

WOW! Thank you for this, that had not even occurred to me.
 
Confusion about what they're looking for in this video surveillance. It'll all come out some day soon, I suppose, I'll try and be patient.

But early on they asked for video of a specific targeted area including the day of and the day before. http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2010-06/1276/36006/Request_for_Video_Footage.doc

What do you think they were looking for on the day before his disappearance? And did they find anything?

Purchases by cash of things like tarps and duct tape, maybe. Or lots of nylon webbing. Or chains.

Any or all of the above would look really suspicious if they haven't been found on the Horman property.
 
Isn't it, though? It must be an important clue, if LE hasn't confirmed it one way or another, imo.

And it hasn't even come up indirectly in any other way. Like I mentioned above, we've seen no photos of her at the school that day; there's been no mention of seeing baby at the school by any of the people who have spoken about seeing TH at the school, or even any mention of TH having taken her to the school that day, in general; she wasn't included in the flier; and MSM hasn't ever before reported on it or asked any questions about it that I'm aware of. Whether or not she was at the school with TH hasn't even been the subject of much speculation elsewhere (blogs and comments) that I have seen. Presumably, because of the babysitter rumor AND the fact that she been "invisible" in every aspect of this case -- until now, of course.

I think you're right that it's important.
 
I'm not saying he was lying. I'm saying that it's possible that she told him she had the baby when she really didn't.


I think he knows because someone else at the school corroborated it. He has not taken Terri's word for anything, always saying things like 'as far as I know' or 'you would have to ask Terri' or qualified what he has said with 'Terri says...'

He does not do that regarding his statement about the baby being with Terri. He states it as a fact he knows for himself has been proven to be true. I doubt he is taking Terri's word for anything at this point.
 
I think he knows because someone else at the school corroborated it. He has not taken Terri's word for anything, always saying things like 'as far as I know' or 'you would have to ask Terri' or qualified what he has said with 'Terri says...'

He does not do that regarding his statement about the baby being with Terri. He states it as a fact he knows for himself has been proven to be true. I doubt he is taking Terri's word for anything at this point.

ITA. I think this piece of information has probably been confirmed to Kaine and Desiree by LE.
 
When traumatic events happen in our lives, it is normal and usual to remember every little detail surrounding those events.

I was in a serious car accident 28 years ago. To this day I remember what I was wearing, what I ate for dinner beforehand, what kind/color car I was riding in, how long my hair was, what the wrecked car smelled like, the name of the man who held the towel to my bleeding head, the misty rain that was falling, the time, temperature, and everything else. I can play it in my head like a recording.

Same for my wedding day. Same for the births of my children. We forget details from days that have no meaning. We remember details from days when important things happen.

I think it is highly suspicious that Terri would forget exactly the who/what/why/where/when and how of everything she did that day. She would have been asked to recite her day within hours of the events. Unless you have had a brain injury, you would remember what you did earlier in the day.

Just another point of view: I have had traumatic events happen--have gone through all of the emotions and feelings that a parent initially feels when a child is lost--and could barely think, I was so panicked internally (I was also so upset that I couldn't cry--and I cry at the drop of a hat!). I couldn't remember what he was wearing, and I had dressed him that morning and had *just* changed his diaper before he went missing. People react to stress in different ways. Maybe one personality remembers every detail, and another can barely function.
 

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