Suspect #2: Mark Smich *Charged* 1stDeg Murder 22 May 2013

[Ernesto]

Does anyone here hold the opinion that, given the filmmaking and photographic interest of DM and MS, there is possible photographic and/or video footage of this crime somewhere?

The problem with this line of thinking is that you're all forgetting how much (staged) violent imagery we see on TV and movies every day. Dexter has been mentioned so many times in this discussion, but do any of you think that anyone involved in the production of that show is secretly a sadistic murderer? These guys made a violent rap video that is tame compared to movies like SAW or Hostel. I think it's a hugely unreasonable leap to imagine the two of them suddenly decided to make a snuff film. Sure it's within the realm of possibility, but I'm pretty sure we'll discover that one of the more simple explanations in these threads will match reality.

 

[Rory1]

A few random thoughts:

Quote, in article below, about there no longer being a public danger, cutting the press conference when third suspect raised, which was noted in another article... I suspect the third person has been working with LE the entire time, crafting a deal and spilling the beans. I was also surprised when AS was cleared so publicly, so quickly. I think more will come out on that front.

CD seems like a piece of work, herself. Clearly fascinated with gang culture to be familiar with and to use sayings like 'ride or die' and '25bid' for the low life she knows couldn't do it, her best bud SAY10 (Satan). Clearly no insight.

It is fascinating to see so many people jump to MS defense; to see AS not lose a single one of his 600+ friends on FB as rumours swirled and people posted nasty comments across his FB pages before he was cleared by LE. And DM had less than 20 friends on FB and dropped them like flies quickly and no one in his group of friends came to his defense. Yet, he is the one who is supposed to the magnetic, charming, dominant mastermind??? Odd.

Tim's phone was turned off a mile from the house. I hope he died then and quickly. Some of the macabre elements about MS and DM... just don't want to think about other scenarios. Removed seats give hope that it happened quickly in the truck. I am just so happy they didn't go back for Tim's wife and daughter that night, knowing they were in the house alone. It could have easily happened.

I go back and forth on whether this was a carjacking gone bad where Tim may have resisted and a struggle ensued... Or planned for a thrill kill. But, one thing is clear: this was a group of poorly connected, drug addicted lowlifes with too much time on their hands and not a lot of thought in the aftermath or they would have covered their tracks a bit better. Body on your farm and truck in your mother's driveway??? Really??? Are you trying to get caught? Sheesh. Sounds like over-confidence, arrogance and stupidity, all tied with a bow. The Apple Dumpling Gang. Truly.

Picture of DM on Steam. Many were curious about when the account was created and when WM died. Not sure this matters, as he could have changed his profile pic at any time after he created the account. But, it is compelling evidence to suggest DM murdered his own father, whom had already been so generous to him, effectively having transferred many assets in to DM's name before he died (six unit property, etobicoke house, farm, Oakville house DM sold for mid-800s). Hey, anyone remember the link to that house? Wonder how close that was to MS.

DM was a financially secure mid-20s male who didn't need to work, so he didn't. However, most males that age work. Who is left to play with? Marginalized, troubled unemployed males who get up to no good.

DM reminds me of a quote about children from wealthy families. 'Give them enough to do something, but not enough to do nothing'. His family clearly were not familiar with that saying. Poor WM, no matter how he died.

And one final thought: I am truly impressed with Hamilton LE. They are the real deal. They seem like smart, methodical, hard working cops who have the patience to follow their leads until the end. So proud of them and hope they get the credit they deserve when this case wraps up. Real pros who give other cops a good name. Pride of their profession.

Sorry for all the random thoughts strung together. Have read nearly all of these threads and just wanted to make a few comments.

Top story in print edition that arrived on my doorstep this morning.

Here it is online:

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2882879-second-arrest-made-in-tim-bosma-murder/

If you give a mouse a cookie...he'll ask for a glass of milk!

If you send a reporter a lead....

 

[JayFriend]

The seats were removed, an ambiguous release. Several possibilities:

All the seats were removed, because the truck was going to stripped down for the parts -- engine, tranny, etc. -- and the culprits wanted only the parts important to them.

All the seats were removed because they were all soiled with evidence of a struggle.

Some seats were removed because they were soiled with evidence of a struggle, and LE doesn't want which seats to be known for reasons critical to the investigation.

I'm not into these personal transportation pickup trucks, but being a crew cab, could the rear seats have been "bucket seats" and not a bench seat?

 

[Shaky pi]

hostage not part of plan , this man was dead dead and insinerated before wife called cops im sure , if truck what they wanted then tim in the way ..

had incinerator for a reason , definite plan here

 

[meadsipper]

The problem with this line of thinking is that you're all forgetting how much (staged) violent imagery we see on TV and movies every day. Dexter has been mentioned so many times in this discussion, but do any of you think that anyone involved in the production of that show is secretly a sadistic murderer? These guys made a violent rap video that is tame compared to movies like SAW or Hostel. I think it's a hugely unreasonable leap to imagine the two of them suddenly decided to make a snuff film. Sure it's within the realm of possibility, but I'm pretty sure we'll discover that one of the more simple explanations in these threads will match reality.

We'll see.

 

[Ruski]

Give me a break! I said that Capital Punishment would make the lawyers more serious about what plea their clients would enter. Cost? Believe me a two or three year drag out on this case with these two would probably cost more to the public than the appeals. Besides, even with a manslaughter conviction, how do you know they won't appeal anyway and add more costs? How about preventative maintenance? If you knew you could DIE by the public's conviction against murder, don't you think less murders would happen? And also, don't you have faith in new technology to prove without a doubt that someone has commited murder? Don't you agree that our technological advances have improved substancially over the last 20 years?

To me the US is a live example of a failed Capital Punishment system. There is no clear evidence that less murders occur when capital punishment is in place. Furthermore, the cost of executing a prisoner is sometimes "tens of millions of dollars more than life in prison" per prisoner.

I am not making this up...just google the subject, its well documented. Many die naturally after 10+ years on death row and a cost of millions to the state. Others successfully appeal and get life, etc. Its just a complete failure.

With regards to technological improvements, yes there have been a ton. I am quite up to date with technology and yes DNA testing is better than ever BUT that cuts both ways. Tons of people are being caught/convicted based on DNA but tons are also exonerated years down the road when DNA evidence proves them to be innocent. So do we execute only those convicted via DNA evidence? Again there is a hole because between that sample of DNA and the results, there are many hands that touch that piece of evidence...we have no way to be 100% certain that the chain of custody was not broken, that an error or intentional tampering didn't occur. As i said, you can't take back an execution....even 1 in 10,000.

Witness testimony will never be "without a shadow of a doubt". Even the most honest human being may recall seeing someone who they didn't see, it happens...not always intentionally but it does.

Why don't we spend our time and energy looking for ways to toughen up our court system without resorting to capital punishment? How about 45+ year sentences, less amenities in prison (i.e. internet, cable tv, free time, etc.)? How about hard labour for the worst of prisoners?! There is a ton of ways to make criminals fear punishment that doesn't include "capital punishment".

 

[Wondergirl]

BBM: Tight group of friends?

Both accused have been ordered to have no contact with a long list of people. Their lists are nearly identical, although Smich has three additional names on his. The identities of those named are protected by a publication ban, as is any evidence against Smich and Millard.

"It could interfere with this case if this list of names was published," the court was told by Deputy Crown attorney Tony Leitch, who is prosecuting both accused.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/killer-video-for-bosma-accused

 

[thinker5]

There is no conclusive evidence that capital punishment deters crime. Do some research, and you'll see that both sides of the debate have done legitimate studies on this question, and all of it is at odds. My opinion? People don't think about the consequences for murder for one of two reasons - they are doing it in a fit of passion, or they have planned it and believe they'll get away with it.

How about research on how guilty suspects will plea with their lawyers when up on first charges against first degree murder? Have you researched that? You can't, because it doesn't exist here. Put it back in and then we can have some stats.

 

[Mummysleuth216]

Re: this eye of DM's on the gaming site-looks like special effects makeup. Just thinking out loud here (so bear with me) in regards to the potential connection between DM and MS and wondered if someone remembers something in regards to a friend of DM's. Back in the earlier TB threads, some sleuthing was going on about a friend of DM's who had posted pics of the Baja 500. Said friend also had pics of faux wounds and was there not a description that said they knew a special effects make up artist? The only reason I mention this is because MS was involved in that horrible you tube video and maybe they used the same make up artist? Could this be the connection? Is this relevant? And, should it be reported?
I'm sort of a newbie here, so I hope this was ok to post.

I do remember reading about a friend that was a makeup artist, AM had halloween pics of his shirt slashed and cuts on his chest and face....just catching up this evening on page 35if this has been discussed ...lol :twocents:

 

[SnooperDuper]

I just looked up the term "FREEUP" which was associated with Mark Smich's description on that freaky music video.

Free up urban dictionary def: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=free up

So then I looked up jibtek:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jibtek

Is he a meth head?

"Tall and gangly, his head shaved, his hands stuffed in the pockets of his baggy black pants, the sullen 25-year-old Oakville man has the nervous twitch of someone who’s itching for a fix."

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/killer-video-for-bosma-accused

 

[thinker5]

To me the US is a live example of a failed Capital Punishment system. There is no clear evidence that less murders occur when capital punishment is in place. Furthermore, the cost of executing a prisoner is sometimes "tens of millions of dollars more than life in prison".

I am not making this up...just google the subject, its well documented. Many die naturally after 10+ years on death row and a cost of millions to the state. Others successfully appeal and get life, etc. Its just a complete failure.

With regards to technological improvements, yes there have been a ton. I am quite up to date with technology and yes DNA testing is better than ever BUT that cuts both ways. Tons of people are being caught/convicted based on DNA but tons are also exonerated years down the road when DNA evidence proves them to be innocent. So do we execute only those convicted via DNA evidence? Again there is a whole because between that sample of DNA and the results, there are many hands that touch that piece of evidence...we have no way to be 100% certain that the chain of custody was not broken, that an error or intentional tampering didn't occur. As i said, you can't take back an execution....even 1 in 10,000.

Witness testimony will never be "without a shadow of a doubt". Even the most honest human being may recall seeing someone who they didn't see, it happens...not always intentionally but it does.

Why don't we spend out time and energy looking for ways to toughen up our court system without resorting to capital punishment? How about 45+ year sentences, less amenities in prison (i.e. internet, cable tv, free time, etc.)? How about hard labour for the worst of prisoners?! There is a ton of ways to make criminals fear punishment that doesn't include "capital punishment".

How about if a person is without a doubt convicted of KILLING YOUR FAMILY, that he should also be persecuted, as "an EYE FOR AN EYE", ergo "DEATH for DEATH"? Innocent? There have been many screw ups in the past, yes, but I have faith in our investigators, police, forensics, dna testing, etc., etc., etc.. What I have less faith in is our legal system, quirky defense lawyers, especially Bernardo and Holmoka's, time to put together an appeal. How about strap this guys in for the ride and make them talk! Possible death to you, DM and MS, if you don't talk now!

 

[Ernesto]

Quote, in article below, about there no longer being a public danger, cutting the press conference when third suspect raised, which was noted in another article... I suspect the third person has been working with LE the entire time, crafting a deal and spilling the beans. I was also surprised when AS was cleared so publicly, so quickly. I think more will come out on that front.

I am certain they said while there was no longer danger to the public, they were still on the lookout for the 3rd suspect and that they should turn themselves in.

Body on your farm and truck in your mother's driveway??? Really??? Are you trying to get caught? Sheesh. Sounds like over-confidence, arrogance and stupidity, all tied with a bow. The Apple Dumpling Gang. Truly.

The distribution of all the evidence including the body is the most troubling part, for me anyway. It absolutely defies logic that you would scatter all of that across 3 of your own properties. Even the most scared, braindead criminal would know that leaving the remains just sitting at the farm, and leaving the truck in the driveway would be an extremely stupid move. It seems to me that only someone who wanted to get caught, or wanted someone else to get caught, would do that... but I guess we can't assume we're talking about rational people here.

 

[Ernesto]

How about research on how guilty suspects will plea with their lawyers when up on first charges against first degree murder? Have you researched that? You can't, because it doesn't exist here. Put it back in and then we can have some stats.

You're missing the point - we're talking about deterrence. You're talking about leverage.

 

[ArianeEmory]

How about if a person is without a doubt convicted of KILLING YOUR FAMILY, that he should also be persecuted, as "an EYE FOR AN EYE", ergo "DEATH for DEATH"? Innocent? There have been many screw ups in the past, yes, but I have faith in our investigators, police, forensics, dna testing, etc., etc., etc.. What I have less faith in is our legal system, quirky defense lawyers, especially Bernardo and Holmoka's, time to put together an appeal. How about strap this guys in for the ride and make them talk! Possible death to you, DM and MS, if you don't talk now!

I think it would be a far greater benefit to humanity if these broken human beings were studied so we could catch on to them earlier.

But my sig says it all.

 

[meadsipper]

I'm not into these personal transportation pickup trucks, but being a crew cab, could the rear seats have been "bucket seats" and not a bench seat?

You can take a look on this link here.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2008/dodge/ram_3500/mega_cab_crew_cab_pickup/3051/photos/interior.html

 

[Wondergirl]

The same "friend" tweeted the video url repeatedly, created a "Free Mark Smich" FB page, and generally drew all sorts of attention to himself.

Then he deleted his FB page, the FB page of his production company, his twitter, etc. etc. funny thing is he left up his web store, angry seeds dot com, and if you go there you'll see why that's worth a giggle

He deleted everything, but, it's all still there under cache.

 

[Lili25]

A few random thoughts:

Quote, in article below, about there no longer being a public danger, cutting the press conference when third suspect raised, which was noted in another article... I suspect the third person has been working with LE the entire time, crafting a deal and spilling the beans. I was also surprised when AS was cleared so publicly, so quickly. I think more will come out on that front.

CD seems like a piece of work, herself. Clearly fascinated with gang culture to be familiar with and to use sayings like 'ride or die' and '25bid' for the low life she knows couldn't do it, her best bud SAY10 (Satan). Clearly no insight.

It is fascinating to see so many people jump to MS defense; to see AS not lose a single one of his 600+ friends on FB as rumours swirled and people posted nasty comments across his FB pages before he was cleared by LE. And DM had less than 20 friends on FB and dropped them like flies quickly and no one in his group of friends came to his defense. Yet, he is the one who is supposed to the magnetic, charming, dominant mastermind??? Odd.

Tim's phone was turned off a mile from the house. I hope he died then and quickly. Some of the macabre elements about MS and DM... just don't want to think about other scenarios. Removed seats give hope that it happened quickly in the truck. I am just so happy they didn't go back for Tim's wife and daughter that night, knowing they were in the house alone. It could have easily happened.

I go back and forth on whether this was a carjacking gone bad where Tim may have resisted and a struggle ensued... Or planned for a thrill kill. But, one thing is clear: this was a group of poorly connected, drug addicted lowlifes with too much time on their hands and not a lot of thought in the aftermath or they would have covered their tracks a bit better. Body on your farm and truck in your mother's driveway??? Really??? Are you trying to get caught? Sheesh. Sounds like over-confidence, arrogance and stupidity, all tied with a bow. The Apple Dumpling Gang. Truly.

Picture of DM on Steam. Many were curious about when the account was created and when WM died. Not sure this matters, as he could have changed his profile pic at any time after he created the account. But, it is compelling evidence to suggest DM murdered his own father, whom had already been so generous to him, effectively having transferred many assets in to DM's name before he died (six unit property, etobicoke house, farm, Oakville house DM sold for mid-800s). Hey, anyone remember the link to that house? Wonder how close that was to MS.

DM was a financially secure mid-20s male who didn't need to work, so he didn't. However, most males that age work. Who is left to play with? Marginalized, troubled unemployed males who get up to no good.

DM reminds me of a quote about children from wealthy families. 'Give them enough to do something, but not enough to do nothing'. His family clearly were not familiar with that saying. Poor WM, no matter how he died.

And one final thought: I am truly impressed with Hamilton LE. They are the real deal. They seem like smart, methodical, hard working cops who have the patience to follow their leads until the end. So proud of them and hope they get the credit they deserve when this case wraps up. Real pros who give other cops a good name. Pride of their profession.

Sorry for all the random thoughts strung together. Have read nearly all of these threads and just wanted to make a few comments.

Above quote was BBM
Great observations Rory but just wanted to confirm that you mean AM not AS ...just so it does not get confused.

Also I did not see CD make those comments about "ride or die" I thought that was said by another person who is a model. Just trying to keep facts straight.

I am still trying to figure out why someone with the financial means that DM had and his jet setting lifestyle....European trips, boats, sea-doos etc .....was associating with someone like MS who appears at this point to be nothing but a under achieving 25 year old living at home with several run ins with LE. He just does not fit the profile of DM's other "friends" I wonder if suspect 3 is someone more closely associated with DM or with MS.
JMO

 

[Ruski]

How about if a person is without a doubt convicted of KILLING YOUR FAMILY, that he should also be persecuted, as "an EYE FOR AN EYE", ergo "DEATH for DEATH"? Innocent? There have been many screw ups in the past, yes, but I have faith in our investigators, police, forensics, dna testing, etc., etc., etc.. What I have less faith in is our legal system, quirky defense lawyers, especially Bernardo and Holmoka's, time to put together an appeal. How about strap this guys in for the ride and make them talk! Possible death to you, DM and MS, if you don't talk now!

I certainly didn't want to spark a huge argument. Obviously i can't even imagine what family members of murder victims have to go through. I also cannot say what my thoughts or actions would be if I am ever in their shoes....all i can do is share my thoughts and views as they are today.

As i said in my previous two posts, IMHO we will never have a 100% certain way to never execute an innocent individual...there will always be that risk, either due to a framing or an honest mistake. Either way, that's not acceptable to me....executing an innocent person is murder, plain and simple.

To many, life in prison will be more torture than death. Depending on your views of what happens after death of course but thats a debate for another day.

Even if you are pro-capital punishment, its no longer as simple as an "Eye for an eye". 200 years ago it didn't include tens of millions of dollars in legal appeals.

Again, i hope the worst possible punishment is handed out in this case and to anyone who kills in cold blood....just not the death penalty.

 

[Wondergirl]

Does anyone here hold the opinion that, given the filmmaking and photographic interest of DM and MS, there is possible photographic and/or video footage of this crime somewhere?

The problem with this line of thinking is that you're all forgetting how much (staged) violent imagery we see on TV and movies every day. Dexter has been mentioned so many times in this discussion, but do any of you think that anyone involved in the production of that show is secretly a sadistic murderer? These guys made a violent rap video that is tame compared to movies like SAW or Hostel. I think it's a hugely unreasonable leap to imagine the two of them suddenly decided to make a snuff film. Sure it's within the realm of possibility, but I'm pretty sure we'll discover that one of the more simple explanations in these threads will match reality.

I can honestly say, that with pretty much every case I have followed at WS, this idea of filming the crime is speculated. As does the topic of Dexter, for that matter.

In this digital age, we see how prolific the younger generation is with filming everything, pictures or video. So, it's not as wild of a suggestion as it used to be in the past, that of filming a murder.

All I hope, is that LE completed the warrants for the computers, phones and other devices thoroughly, completely and properly. I don't want to find out after the jury goes to deliberations, about evidence on those devices that were incorrectly searched due to warrant issues.

JMO

 

[thinker5]

You're missing the point - we're talking about deterrence. You're talking about leverage.

I'm talking about both. U.S. has guns. We don't. U.S. is far more populated than Canada. So, their stats are irrelevant, especially in this case. Leverage and deterance is relevant in this case, IMO. If it's a thrill kill and they knew the worst that could happen was money could buy them out, which DM has lots of, maybe he wouldn't have done it if he was up against Capital Punishment. Period.