Terri's friends want to distance themselves after being dragged into investigation

[KeyboardCat]

I am beginning to think that anyone who knows Terri or likes her even a little bit should have an attorney on retainer, for fear of Desiree and Kaine naming them in the press. I am really not liking that they are doing this, though clearly, most people do. I don't think they need to call people out by name; they could still be effective by pleading with anyone close to Terri to please help in any way possible. Threatening lawsuits is not the way to "make friends and influence people", so to speak, it tends instead to make one dial up a lawyer. And anyone close to Terri is well aware of what has become of her life since she has been scrutinized; I'd talk to LE but not without talking to my lawyer first and not without him/her at my side. This case is simply too bizarre; being innocent may not be protection enough.

Kaine and Desiree did not randomly pick a friend of Terri's to be singled out and ripped apart by media attack dogs. Her name came up in this investigation because she got caught in the police drag net during their investigations of Terri Horman.

Why would they "out" only Dede Spicher and not the other friends? They aren't lying. They aren't misinformed. They probably got their information where they always get it, law enforcement. Aside from Dede, only the police would know for sure if she was cooperating or not, and she obviously isn't talkin'. Besides, if Dede is cooperating, even if only partially, she would say so. It may not be anyone's business, it may not be her responsibility, but no one would allow such lies to be uncontested. Why would she protect herself from being destroyed by eager and overzealous police, but not protect her life from being destroyed by vicious lies?

She can maintain all her rights, with lawyer in hand, and still cooperate.

Or she can rightfully refuse to cooperate. She has a right to protect her own interests, even if it concerns a missing little boy.

But she doesn't have the right not to be publicly criticized for it.

People all over the country pray for Kyron Horman. He has either suffered a miserable death or is still suffering right now. And if the police want to talk to Dede for information, she should cooperate. I know she is probably worried about being railroaded. She has every right retain counsel and remain tight lipped to make sure that doesn't happen.

And everyone else has a right to look at her decisions and form opinions accordingly.

In my opinion, her only connection to this case seems too peripheral and insignificant to morally justify not cooperating in the investigation of a missing child. She may not have had contact with Terri that day. Or if she did, the only worth Dede would have to the investigation is an insight on Terri's whereabouts during a small window of time, or insight into her demeanor that day. That is all, which is hardly a reason for anyone to assume they need to protect themselves. And now she is facing some very predictable scrutiny.

Having an untarnished name is not a right. Its a responsibility.

 

[xin]

Maybe the friends who stepped away read the news too. With school officials and even the other children having been informed by Terri Horman Kyron would be out of school that day. With witnesses saying Dede Spicher left work at that time when Kyron VANISHED for 90 minutes. That Dede couldn't be reached via phone during the time Kyron vanished. But that phone records show inordinate number of communication between Spicher and Terry Horman in the hours following Kyron magically VANISHING.

well maybe the two friends that stepped away read the news also. Everyone else might be lying, but I doubt it.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-horman-family-names-woman-eyed-boys-disapperance/story?id=11234220

BBM
I don't recall any source statement on phone calls between the two. Do you know where you read about an "inordinate" number of phone calls between DeDe and TH? The link doesn't lead to any mention of these either. Thanks.

 

[angelmom]

And I totally agree with that. Get a lawyer, then negotiate and talk to LE. Where we're splitting hairs here is not on getting legal advice before talking, but getting legal advice and then not talking. If a person gets a lawyer, but still negotiates and talks with LE, that is fine my book. A person who gets a lawyer and then refuses to help in any way whatsoever is what I don't agree with. And I'm not saying that person is Dede, I'm just talking in general.

What if the lawyer tells you not to talk?

Don't most attorneys tell innocent people to cooperate? I remember Mark Klass saying that when his daughter disappeared and LE suspected him, he begged them to give him a lie detector test! And of course, he was innocent all along.

People who are NOT innocent also tend to lawyer up, I've noticed.

No. In response to both, please take the time to watch the videos at the link. Experienced attorney AND experienced detective speaking to law students both say do NOT talk to LE ever under any circumstances.

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html

 

[1Chump]

What if the lawyer tells you not to talk?




No. In response to both, please take the time to watch the videos at the link. Experienced attorney AND experienced detective speaking to law students both say do NOT talk to LE ever under any circumstances.

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html

Here is a link to how police interrogations work. Especially read up on Reid's Nine Steps to Psychological Manipulation. You may come to understand why innocent people end up confession to crimes they did not commit.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/police-interrogation1.htm

 

[Cher352]

Here is a link to how police interrogations work. Especially read up on Reid's Nine Steps to Psychological Manipulation. You may come to understand why innocent people end up confession to crimes they did not commit.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/police-interrogation1.htm

Thanks! Good article, well worth reading all the way through.

 

[Adalena935]

The reason I hope I'm wrong is because that would mean Terri's "friends" were only "guilty" of receiving electronic communication from her. LE could have received the same information without risking the privacy and/or rights of Terri's friends. Yet one has been publically named and vilified as a result.

The news says they had a warrant.

 

[Calliope]

Here is a link to how police interrogations work. Especially read up on Reid's Nine Steps to Psychological Manipulation. You may come to understand why innocent people end up confession to crimes they did not commit.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/police-interrogation1.htm

In the United States, as many as 80 percent of suspects waive their rights to silence and counsel, allowing police to conduct a full-scale interrogation.

The more stress a suspect experiences, the less likely he is to think critically and independently, making him far more susceptible to suggestion. This is even more true when the suspect is a minor or is mentally ill, because he may be poorly equipped to recognize or fight off manipulative tactics. A process designed to cause someone so much stress that he'll confess just to escape the situation is a process that leaves itself open to false confessions. Researchers estimate between 65 and 300 false confessions per year in the United States. Here are just a few false confessions that investigators have uncovered:

• Peter Reilly, 1973
  
  Peter Reilly was 18 years old when his mother was found murdered in their home. After eight hours of interrogation by Connecticut police, he confessed to brutally murdering her. A jury convicted him of first-degree manslaughter based on his confession, and he served three years in prison before a judge set him free in the face of new evidence indicating someone else committed the crime.
  
  
• Earl Washington, Jr., 1982
  
  Earl Washington, Jr., a man described by psychologists as "mildly retarded" with an IQ of 69, confessed to raping and murdering a 19-year-old woman after undergoing interrogation. He was convicted on the confession alone and spent 18 years in prison, half of that time on death row. Nine days before his scheduled execution, the governor of Virginia pardoned him because DNA evidence had revealed that the actual perpetrator was another man.
  
  
• The "Central Park Five," 1989
  
  After more than 20 hours of interrogation, five teenagers -- Raymond Santana, 14, Kharey Wise, 16, Antron McCray, 16, Kevin Richardson, 14, and Yusef Salaam, 15 -- confessed to raping and beating a woman jogging in Central Park in New York City. They spent between six and 12 years in prison (four out of the five were tried as minors) before another man confessed to the crime in 2001. DNA evidence confirmed that this other man was in fact the Central Park rapist.
  
  
• Michael Crowe, 1998
  
  Michael Crowe was 14 years old when police interrogated him without a parent or other adult in the room. He eventually confessed to stabbing his 12-year-old sister to death after the interrogator told Michael of false physical evidence against him. He was charged with the crime, but at pre-trial hearings, a judge deemed his confession to be involuntary. DNA evidence later led police to the man who actually murdered the girl.

Further proof that innocence is not enough to protect you against charges and conviction. "But I have nothing to hide" doesn't mean squat if the police have you in their sights --- something you might not be aware of until it's too late.


If ALL DeDe did was advise Terri (and others) to shut up and retain an attorney, I'm sure that upset Kaine and Desiree. But I'd do the same and not talk to LE except with an attorney present, especially if I knew I was innocent of any involvement.

 

[Adalena935]

BBM
I don't recall any source statement on phone calls between the two. Do you know where you read about an "inordinate" number of phone calls between DeDe and TH? The link doesn't lead to any mention of these either. Thanks.

Fox news

 

[Adalena935]

It's always been legal in the USA for anyone to be accused of anything at anytime. Arrested also. There is no right to never be accused/arrested.

 

[BeanE]

If ALL DeDe did was advise Terri (and others) to shut up and retain an attorney, I'm sure that upset Kaine and Desiree. But I'd do the same and not talk to LE except with an attorney present, especially if I knew I was innocent of any involvement.

That's exactly what I think she did, and that's all I think this is about.

Wasn't there a report that Terri's friends, when she got the retaining order, encouraged her to get an attorney and that's when she retained Houze?

I suppose I need to go hunting for that article. It's been ringing a bell in the back of my mind.

ETA: Close friends of Terri Horman, the stepmother of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman, say they wish she would speak out so people can hear her side of the story, and they’ve also advised her to hire an attorney.

http://www.katu.com/news/97449789.html

And now I'm also remembering that one of them drove Terri to the attorney.

ETA again lol:

He declined to talk about the mood inside the home, saying he feared his words would be twisted

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_retains_p.html

That's Michael Cook from when Terri hired an attorney. So if the friends were concerned about what was going on in the media and on the net, they may well have been telling her to get an attorney. I'd do the same. I don't know why she didn't retain one sooner. She should have.

But her not retaining an attorney earlier tells me that maybe Kaine, Desiree, and Tony frown on that. And there ya go for why they're so upset with Dede right now.

:cow:

 

[KeyboardCat]

http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/124320/ky...man-be-the-only-hope-for-finding-missing-boy/

"Investigators reportedly tried to talk with a friend of Terri, only to find that said friend, DeDe Sphicher, is in close contact with Terri but won’t talk to police. Some think that she could have something to do with the boy’s disappearance, or at least know key evidence that could help investigators."

At the bottom of this article says it's source is ABC news. I've never heard of CNM, almost thought it was a parody of CNN at first. I guess that is MSM.

Hmm that may be an article sort of reiterating an ABC story about the parents naming her.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/124320/ky...man-be-the-only-hope-for-finding-missing-boy/

"Investigators reportedly tried to talk with a friend of Terri, only to find that said friend, DeDe Sphicher, is in close contact with Terri but won’t talk to police. Some think that she could have something to do with the boy’s disappearance, or at least know key evidence that could help investigators."

At the bottom of this article says it's source is ABC news. I've never heard of CNM, almost thought it was a parody of CNN at first. I guess that is MSM.

Hmm that may be an article sort of reiterating an ABC story about the parents naming her.

Just FYI:

"CNM Stands for Citizen News Media. CNM News Network is comprised of citizen journalists and guest bloggers. Our writers write mainly for the love of writing and sharing information."

http://cnmnewsnetwork.com/faq/

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I also am wondering about Dede's and Terri's relationship of mutual interest in gardening and healthy food.

1. Why didn't she hire the unemployed Dede to landscape her yard?

2. Healthy food. I have read Dede's blogs and twitters and she is into healthy food. The really healthy food that many of my close friends are into .

I actually thought that Dede's recipe for the watermelon smoothie with the spinach sounded like something I am going to try.

But, I saw pictures of the baby's birthday with cupcakes and then the picture of the St. Patrick's day where Terri had made something to eat with those sprinkles and it looked like some kind of boxed mix.

Someone who is into healthy food would no more feed their children that than they would feed them ground up tires. There are so many more healthy alternatives to give children than a boxed mix and sprinkles.

So, I do not understand this healthy eating and gardening connection. It's a mystery to me.

And I know that people will say those kinds of things are fun for children. But seriously, healthy eaters equate that kind of stuff with poisoning your body.

And if you can't control it for yourself, you would never serve it to your children.

I don't know. We are into healthy eating. More and more as time goes by. My child at home is as well -she is pretty much the little health czar here. But, there is a definite sprinkle exception. And while I normally bake as healthily as possible, I have bought cake mix and premade icing with sprinkles in both, for a pot luck cause my daughter wanted it, and for a birthday party. I learned long ago what battles to fight. And to me and my hubby, some junk food on occasion isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. I figure a cup cake with sprinkles isn't going to kill a whole week or month of healthy eating.

PS and I didn't get DDS's full recipe for the Watermelon Green Smoothie - I stupidly bookmarked the page instead of screen shotting it. If anyone has the full recipe for it, could I have it? TIA

 

[mauirain]

It's going way too far, IMO, to insult people who get attorneys before COOPERATING and going to LE. Getting an attorney does no disservice whatsoever to the victim.

Sorry BeanE, but I disagree. I think it is the ultimate disservice to a missing child who trusted you to not give up all information you know. From the second a criminal defense attorney is retained, she no longer has to speak to LE on any issue pertaining to this missing child. That is not a disservice???? Come on now, get real. No disrespect to you, but I don't agree with you. sorry. It is more than obvious that she is hiding something....and Kyron, who is there to protect him...no one.....why? you tell me. :banghead:

 

[Calliope]

She doesn't have to speak to LE regardless. But having one present protects her while allowing her to answer questions that can help them find Kyron.

 

[mauirain]

And what if, through no fault of your own, LE finds something, anything, that implicates you in any way? What if LE suspects you of being involved? What if, oh let's say... a landscaper ... convinces them that you were involved in plot to harm or kill someone. LE is under no obligation to tell you the truth. You could be as pure and innocent as the driven snow, but if they think (even mistakenly think) that you may be involved in the slightest, they WILL find something they can use against you. Also keep in mind that a search warrant specifically states where they are searching and what they are looking for and can seize if found. Give them free access without a warrant, and everything is fair game.

If the police were to show up at my door and ask to search my property for a missing child, I'd say go for it.

If they were to show up and ask to enter my house and search my computer, or phone records or *whatever*, I'd say show me the warrant --- after placing a call to my attorney. Especially if I knew I was innocent. LE is not in the business of establishing innocence. Their job is to catch criminals. If they want that sort of information, they are looking to make a connection to a crime.

Mistakenly implicating innocents does not help find Kyron. If anything, it does exactly what D, K, and T warn against in their threat to Dede... delays finding him and bringing him home.

Ok, so who is the enemy here, the perp, or the cops???????? So self preservation is more important than an innocent child.......you know what, I would take that risk if it meant helping LE find Kyron....sorry....moo

 

[mauirain]

bbm

You were damned lucky.

What if the witness hadn't got a good enough look to say for certain it wasn't you they'd seen?

BTW, before you agreed to talk to them and go in to be ID'd, did you know everything they had that led them to believe you may be a suspect?

Again, I am going to say, that I DO NOT consider Law Enforcement the ENEMY...If that ever becomes the case, I feel sorry for this country, because if LE is the enemy, we are in BIG trouble....:waitasec:

 

[gwenabob]

Terri and her friends have the right to refuse telling LE any info they know about Kyron. Cruel? Yep. Legal? Yep.

And society has the right to treat them like pariahs. Cruel? Yep. Legal? Yep.

 

[mauirain]

Our constitution doesn't give us rights that are only good until a child goes missing. Those rights are always afforded to the citizens of this country.

When that constitution was amended, it was decided that the end does not justify the means. That is what the fifth amendment is all about! That amendment was passed at a time in the world where many governments used the practise of torture legally.

Our founding fathers stood up and said no. No, no matter what the desired goal is, torture is not legal.

No one's rights trumps anyone else's rights. No citizen of this country is considered less worthy of constitutional protection than any other citizen.

Sometimes advocating the rights of some other people is difficult. If it were always easy, if it always came down to "what everyone agrees on" then there would be no need for rights at all.

I want Kyron found.

I do not want him found at the expense of innocent people being dragged through the mud. I do not believe that his life is more precious than the life of an innocent adult.

I don't want various government agencies to be put in the position where they have to apologise for their conduct, as in some very high profile cases. Every single time that happens, it damages the faith of the people in the power of the government. That faith is not boundless and endless, nor should it be. Pushing the limits of that faith via misconduct is a grave and terrible wrong against all citizens.

I don't believe that it is better to apologise after the fact than to get permission in advance (for permission, read "do things right").

Where in this case has it been reported that innocent adults have been dragged thru the mud in this case?????? Has LE been accused of this?????

 

[Calliope]

Ok, so who is the enemy here, the perp, or the cops???????? So self preservation is more important than an innocent child.......you know what, I would take that risk if it meant helping LE find Kyron....sorry....moo

I guess I didn't make my point clear. I'm not sure how else to get it across, but in no way am I implying the cops are the "enemy".

I've been up since 3 pm Saturday, minus about 3 hours sleep this past afternoon.

Maybe I'll come back to this with a clear head and try again.