The case for murder, #2

[Serpico]

IIRC, the last computer activity was reportedly at 3:00am (or within a few minutes of 3:00am). I believe LE later explained this as an automated function of the computer, but I always wondered if the computer activity was considered when establishing a time of death. I know that's not how it normally works when establishing a time of death, but this case is unusual in many regards.

All of the above is just my opinion.

The TIME OF DEATH was the beginning of the Thompson/Gore = Suicide Package;
===========================
July 13,2011
---------------
12:50am - hearsay JS "grim Max news" phone message listened and erased
by Rebecca even though no technological or scientific proof to confirm.
1:00am -3:00am - ME Jonathan Lucas initial TIME OF DEATH estimate to media.
3:00am - Sept.2,2011 PC where ME Lucas states it was 3;00am TIME OF DEATH
to support the Thompson/Gore Suicide Package.Of course, it had to be the latest ETA at 3;00am for THOMPSON/GORE to explain the time involved to find towing rope, complete the intricate rope knot process and paint door message in 2 parts.
================================================
Phone Facts- July 12,2011
--------------------------------------
9:53pm - RZ last communication = outgoing text to sister Mary.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Witness Statement - July 12,2011
-------------------------------------
11:40pm - RZ neighbor 2 houses down heard woman Scream and then yell HELP - HELP from the direction of 1043 Ocean Blvd.

 

[Quester]

Where does the last name, Flores, come from? TIA

What was the supposed full name DS assumed while allegedly hiding her relationship with J from wife #1? TIA

 

[bourne]

This is gruesome but unfortunately a necessary question: How long AFTER a (long) drop hanging can a person still breathe and survive? I had previously thought that it would only be a few minutes...like 5 maximum.

So if we are to believe the ME that TOD was 3am Wed AND Dina was spotted in the mansion at around 11pm Tues, what the heck was Dina/the murderer(s) doing to Rebecca from 11pm-3am (4 hours) besides INTERROGATING and TORTURING Rebecca? I'd surmise it was SETTING UP and STAGING THE CRIME SCENE and CLEANING UP (wiping away potential prints/DNA) AFTER HERSELF/THEMSELVES.

 

[K_Z]

Where does the last name, Flores, come from? TIA

What was the supposed full name DS assumed while allegedly hiding her relationship with J from wife #1? TIA

IIRC, Dina was married once before her marriage to Jonah. Flores is her name from that marriage.

 

[K_Z]

This is gruesome but unfortunately a necessary question: How long AFTER a (long) drop hanging can a person still breathe and survive? I had previously thought that it would only be a few minutes...like 5 maximum.
.

Snipped.

If the neck is not snapped at C 1-2 in a hangmans fracture, it takes a couple minutes for someone to die of strangulation.

During that time, the heart beats, but the person is not breathing due to constriction of the neck. Fortunately for the hanged person, unconsciousness comes rapidly if the neck isn't broken, due to constriction of the great vessels in the neck.

Respiratory efforts pretty much cease at the end of the rope, either way. It just takes a bit longer for the heart to stop beating in a strangulation hanging.

 

[K_Z]

I took some quick notes while listening to Dr Wecht's radio interview, in particular to death pre-hanging. Am paraphrasing, but what I understood is there was substantial damage to the hyoid - basically broken. Extensive hemorrhaging in the neck muscles. Both would be present in manual strangulation. Dr Wecht noted all "force" (can't read my notes ..lol) in the front, NONE in the rear. Thus, and he emphases this several times, he CANNOT rule out strangulation. He is not saying it is but he cannot rule it out.

Thank you to whomever posted the link to the WS Radio interview with Cyril Wecht and Cynic. That was a very interesting discussion, especially now that time has elapsed.

One thing I want to comment on about the use of the term "strangulation." There seems to be an assumption that strangulation in this case could have been strangulation until asystole/ certain and unrecoverable death. Strangulation doesn't always mean "strangled to DEATH."

To a person with a medical background, that isn't necessarily the way the term is meant. It may be intended to mean strangulation until irrecoverable asystole. However, it can also imply "partial" strangulation. Meaning, someone experienced an act of strangulation, but did not die. That is an important distinction in Rebecca's case, IMO.

The medical literature contains many studies of individuals, and population outcome studies of what is probably more clearly called "partial" strangulation. Accident scenarios dominate these articles, such as children becoming entwined in electrical cords, but found in time to save their lives. As might be expected, some survived relatively neurologically intact, while others lived, but were neurologically devastated/ persistent vegetative state. Some had cartilaginous and/ or hyoid fracture injury, others had only compressive injury.

There are also forensic cases of "failed" manual (hands) strangulation, where the killer went on to another method to ensure death (smothering, GSW, etc.). There are cases described where victims survived a murder attempt by strangulation. (Manual strangulation, using hands only, btw, is not really as easy as some might envision, when the victim is a conscious adult, not drugged or intoxicated, or restrained.)

Dr. Wecht's comments about the cartilage damage being confined to the anterior neck structures, with no ligament or soft tissue damage posteriorly, is one aspect of this case that has yet to be adequately explained.

I think it is entirely possible that Rebecca was semi conscious, stunned, or briefly unconscious when she went over the railing. We know with certainty that she had no drugs or intoxicants in her system. It is possible that she was hit on the head 4 times, and also experienced "partial" strangulation before going over the railing. Whether this was because the killer was impatient, or unable to accomplish the murder with those methods, or perhaps the killer intended to use head blows an partial strangulation preceding the hanging, is not clear.

If that happened, only the killer could answer why. Was it torture, or was the killer unable to complete the hanging without rendering Rebecca more "compliant" and easy to handle? Or did the situation start out planned as something else, and spiraled out of control? Was it pure rage on the part of the killer, with no forethought to the head blows and/ or partial strangulation?

I think the autopsy demonstrates she was alive when the neck muscles were torn. I think that happened during the long drop. I also strongly feel that efforts were made to help Rebecca be more compliant with the hanging. Head blows, and partial strangulation have long been a component of what I envision happened as Rebecca was murdered.

Verbal and physical torture, followed by the long drop murder hanging, is what I think happened. What bothers me most, is that I think Rebecca knew her killers intended to kill her. I think Rebecca knew she was going to be killed, and hung out nude and bound for the world to see. I believe she was mocked, taunted, and tortured by her killers before they murdered her. JMO, IMO, mooooooo

 

[*Lash*]

Thank you to whomever posted the link to the WS Radio interview with Cyril Wecht and Cynic. That was a very interesting discussion, especially now that time has elapsed.

One thing I want to comment on about the use of the term "strangulation." There seems to be an assumption that strangulation in this case could have been strangulation until asystole/ certain and unrecoverable death. Strangulation doesn't always mean "strangled to DEATH."

To a person with a medical background, that isn't necessarily the way the term is meant. It may be intended to mean strangulation until irrecoverable asystole. However, it can also imply "partial" strangulation. Meaning, someone experienced an act of strangulation, but did not die. That is an important distinction in Rebecca's case, IMO.

The medical literature contains many studies of individuals, and population outcome studies of what is probably more clearly called "partial" strangulation. Accident scenarios dominate these articles, such as children becoming entwined in electrical cords, but found in time to save their lives. As might be expected, some survived relatively neurologically intact, while others lived, but were neurologically devastated/ persistent vegetative state. Some had cartilaginous and/ or hyoid fracture injury, others had only compressive injury.

There are also forensic cases of "failed" manual (hands) strangulation, where the killer went on to another method to ensure death (smothering, GSW, etc.). There are cases described where victims survived a murder attempt by strangulation. (Manual strangulation, using hands only, btw, is not really as easy as some might envision, when the victim is a conscious adult, not drugged or intoxicated, or restrained.)

Dr. Wecht's comments about the cartilage damage being confined to the anterior neck structures, with no ligament or soft tissue damage posteriorly, is one aspect of this case that has yet to be adequately explained.

I think it is entirely possible that Rebecca was semi conscious, stunned, or briefly unconscious when she went over the railing. We know with certainty that she had no drugs or intoxicants in her system. It is possible that she was hit on the head 4 times, and also experienced "partial" strangulation before going over the railing. Whether this was because the killer was impatient, or unable to accomplish the murder with those methods, or perhaps the killer intended to use head blows an partial strangulation preceding the hanging, is not clear.

If that happened, only the killer could answer why. Was it torture, or was the killer unable to complete the hanging without rendering Rebecca more "compliant" and easy to handle? Or did the situation start out planned as something else, and spiraled out of control? Was it pure rage on the part of the killer, with no forethought to the head blows and/ or partial strangulation?

I think the autopsy demonstrates she was alive when the neck muscles were torn. I think that happened during the long drop. I also strongly feel that efforts were made to help Rebecca be more compliant with the hanging. Head blows, and partial strangulation have long been a component of what I envision happened as Rebecca was murdered.

Verbal and physical torture, followed by the long drop murder hanging, is what I think happened. What bothers me most, is that I think Rebecca knew her killers intended to kill her. I think Rebecca knew she was going to be killed, and hung out nude and bound for the world to see. I believe she was mocked, taunted, and tortured by her killers before they murdered her. JMO, IMO, mooooooo

BBM - I too believe this is what happened to Rebecca. Head injuries, partial strangulation and tossed over the balcony. I pray Rebecca was unconscious when she went over the balcony. I have come to believe she was indeed tortured and interrogated. I believe her murderer was in control of everything that night. Imo, any "Oops, I didn't mean to kill her" or "Oops, I just wanted to scare her" scenarios do not exist. There was a time I believed these theories were possible. In my opinion with each new piece of evidence it is becoming apparent Rebecca was literally tortured to death and humiliated even more while her body laid exposed for 13 hours. There are many people involved in this case, at least 15 investigators. I wonder how all of them feel when they look in the mirror or look at their own families, especially their wives and daughters. I hope they never have to feel the torture Rebecca and her family has endured, however they do have to go on living each and every day for the rest of their lives knowing their misdeeds.

 

[Serpico]

Thank you to whomever posted the link to the WS Radio interview with Cyril Wecht and Cynic. That was a very interesting discussion, especially now that time has elapsed.

One thing I want to comment on about the use of the term "strangulation." There seems to be an assumption that strangulation in this case could have been strangulation until asystole/ certain and unrecoverable death. Strangulation doesn't always mean "strangled to DEATH."

To a person with a medical background, that isn't necessarily the way the term is meant. It may be intended to mean strangulation until irrecoverable asystole. However, it can also imply "partial" strangulation. Meaning, someone experienced an act of strangulation, but did not die. That is an important distinction in Rebecca's case, IMO.

The medical literature contains many studies of individuals, and population outcome studies of what is probably more clearly called "partial" strangulation. Accident scenarios dominate these articles, such as children becoming entwined in electrical cords, but found in time to save their lives. As might be expected, some survived relatively neurologically intact, while others lived, but were neurologically devastated/ persistent vegetative state. Some had cartilaginous and/ or hyoid fracture injury, others had only compressive injury.

There are also forensic cases of "failed" manual (hands) strangulation, where the killer went on to another method to ensure death (smothering, GSW, etc.). There are cases described where victims survived a murder attempt by strangulation. (Manual strangulation, using hands only, btw, is not really as easy as some might envision, when the victim is a conscious adult, not drugged or intoxicated, or restrained.)

Dr. Wecht's comments about the cartilage damage being confined to the anterior neck structures, with no ligament or soft tissue damage posteriorly, is one aspect of this case that has yet to be adequately explained.

I think it is entirely possible that Rebecca was semi conscious, stunned, or briefly unconscious when she went over the railing. We know with certainty that she had no drugs or intoxicants in her system. It is possible that she was hit on the head 4 times, and also experienced "partial" strangulation before going over the railing. Whether this was because the killer was impatient, or unable to accomplish the murder with those methods, or perhaps the killer intended to use head blows an partial strangulation preceding the hanging, is not clear.

If that happened, only the killer could answer why. Was it torture, or was the killer unable to complete the hanging without rendering Rebecca more "compliant" and easy to handle? Or did the situation start out planned as something else, and spiraled out of control? Was it pure rage on the part of the killer, with no forethought to the head blows and/ or partial strangulation?

I think the autopsy demonstrates she was alive when the neck muscles were torn. I think that happened during the long drop. I also strongly feel that efforts were made to help Rebecca be more compliant with the hanging. Head blows, and partial strangulation have long been a component of what I envision happened as Rebecca was murdered.

Verbal and physical torture, followed by the long drop murder hanging, is what I think happened. What bothers me most, is that I think Rebecca knew her killers intended to kill her. I think Rebecca knew she was going to be killed, and hung out nude and bound for the world to see. I believe she was mocked, taunted, and tortured by her killers before they murdered her. JMO, IMO, mooooooo

I too believe Rebecca KNEW she was going to be killed - that's why I strongly believe the SCREAM and yell HELP - HELP at 11:40 pm were Rebecca's last words......I'm troubled the witness/neighbor didn't recall hearing... ADAM HELP HELP. Was Rebecca running away from Adam?

 

[Carioca]

BBM - I too believe this is what happened to Rebecca. Head injuries, partial strangulation and tossed over the balcony. I pray Rebecca was unconscious when she went over the balcony. I have come to believe she was indeed tortured and interrogated. I believe her murderer was in control of everything that night. Imo, any "Oops, I didn't mean to kill her" or "Oops, I just wanted to scare her" scenarios do not exist. There was a time I believed these theories were possible. In my opinion with each new piece of evidence it is becoming apparent Rebecca was literally tortured to death and humiliated even more while her body laid exposed for 13 hours. There are many people involved in this case, at least 15 investigators. I wonder how all of them feel when they look in the mirror or look at their own families, especially their wives and daughters. I hope they never have to feel the torture Rebecca and her family has endured, however they do have to go on living each and every day for the rest of their lives knowing their misdeeds.

I totally agree with this scenario as well.
BBM Well stated, Lash. I cannot imagine how any one of them can sleep at night knowing the pain they have caused and continue to cause with each passing day. A case like this makes it very difficult to teach children to trust law enforcement. Very sad.

 

[Zinn]

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but a couple posters mentioned the possibility of evidence tampering, so just throwing a thought out there. I've always wondered if the used "makeup wipes" in the room with the women's underwear had been used in an effort to remove paint from Rebecca's body. For instance, if someone was hastily attempting damage control, might they attempt to wipe off paint with a wet paper towel? I recall a glass of liquid was found nearby. I know the "wipes" were noted at the scene, but were they taken into evidence? I sincerely doubt they were tested, but I can imagine paint smudges being mistaken for makeup.

I have wondered if perhaps someone attempted damage control in the courtyard without realizing how much additional evidence would be found upstairs.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Serpico]

Hi Zinn - This might help. Let's compare Whitney Houston's death investigation and Rebecca's:

Whitney Houston death investigation:

"The report also notes that a criminalist actually "used a sexual assault kit" on Houston in the hotel room where she died. The investigator "later booked the pubic hair kit, the fingernail clippings, the hair standards, and the sexual assault kit at the Forensic Services Center as evidence."

The autopsy report does not reveal why such a rape kit was deemed necessary, beyond noting that it was "per Departmental Protocol" and that "nothing remarkable being noted."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/autopsy/whitney-houston-autopsy-report-095671

Rebecca Zahau death investigation (quoted from SDSO briefing 17 November 2011:

GORE:
[…] There were no signs of molestation on Rebecca's body. It did not appear to be relevant to our investigation.

[…]

DAVID GOTFREDSON/CBS8:
And what she said on the show about the underwear, that there was no DNA analysis done on the underwear to actually determine whose underwear it was, that’s true as well. Is that right?

GRUBB:
That's correct. The underwear was collected but as the sheriff has said it was not examined because of Jonah Shacknai’s statement and the fact that we had better evidence as to whether Rebecca Zahau was sexually assaulted or not and that was her body and the swabs recovered from her body, which showed no sexual assault.

DAVID GOTFREDSON/CBS8:
So how was the bathroom shower blood determined to be menstrual blood from Rebecca?

GORE:
Through logical investigative work.

----------

Yessiree. Swabs were "recovered from her body." So where are the results of those swabs and what were they tested for?? Herpes? Cystitis? A woman is found dead under extremely suspicious and violent circumstances, nude and with evidence of bleeding, yet SDSO IGNORED Departmental Protocol. Instead they relied on hearsay and logic.

:banghead:

=======================
I'd like to follow up on this subject because there doesn't appear any Science or Lab Results to confirm Grubb or Gore statements. Again, the Thompson/Gore -Suicide Package cannot have anyone but Rebecca present inside the mansion from 8:00pm 7/12/11 thru 6:45 am 7/13/11 so BLOOD found can only be Rebecca's, abrasions found are either self inflicted or by plants/branches below the balcony, phone message retrieved at 12:50 am on 7/13/11 could only be Rebecca's, the Screams and the yell HELP -HELP is dismissed, the turned over wicker chair in the bedroom is insignificant, the Message on the door is insignificant and didn't warrant handwriting analysis of POI, there was NO fingerprints or DNA found except RZ but some mixed samples that couldn't be identified, no explanation of the candle laying on the courtyard grass, no explanation or proof where the orange/red towing rope came from, then we go to the possibility of a sexual assault....this is easily dismissed as others aspects in this case because if there was evidence of sexual assault .....the Thompson/Gore -Suicide Package is destroyed.

Ann Rule's book - page 218 mentions from ME Lucas RZ AR that RZ had blood in her vaginal vault and dried blood along her perineum. She then says it doesn't appear that RZ was raped. She had possibly been menstruating at the time of her death. This is par for the course ....excuse or answer for anyone else
involved by ME Lucas and SDSO employees. Where is the confirmation from SCIENCE -Thompson/Gore? Gore boasted that "science solved this case."

I'd like you to consider this - 1985 Trial of Anthony Darrell Hines who was convicted of raping , robbing , and murdering a motel maid. Dr. Charles Harland performed the autopsy on the victim (Katherine Jean Jenkins) body and testified in court....."there was a small amount of blood in the vaginal vault."

Jon Benet Ramsey autopsy even indicated there was a small amount of dried blood along her perineum.

I've read Procedures of Autopsy in State of Washington on Suspicious Deaths where inspecting the vaginal area with a speculum if blood is visualized.. a pap smear is performed with the speculum in place. There is also 2 swabs taken for further testing. ME Lucas performed RZ Autopsy on 7/14/11 so why weren't further tests done or requested by ME Lucas the day after her death? Or was this changed like other aspects of the AR that had the date indicated as 9/2/11 which was same day as the big Press Conference?

I've also read via due diligence on this subject matter that even IUD's can cause
some bleeding so as I listened last night to the radio interview of Dr. Cyril Wecht say," I cannot rule out manual strangulation"......can anyone convince me that we can rule out sexual assault in this case?

 

[Bonepile]

What I find hard to believe is that with all the known science, investigators were unable to determine the exact time of Rebecca's death. I'm thinking the ambiguity in her time of death is not just because she might have been strangled first and then hanged, but that the ME decided NOT to show up immediately upon hearing about the crime but instead wasted a whole day of 13 plus hours before bothering to show up at the crime scene to examine her body. A lot of critical evidence from Rebecca's body and the crime scene were LOST during that protracted, lengthy period of time in which the ME dilly-dallied, and IMO, he did so INTENTIONALLY because of orders from higher authorities such as Sheriff Gore who believed that Rebecca deserved her tortured death.

Has anyone of them explained away this "time delay"? NO! Has anyone been held responsible for the way Rebecca's body was left? NO! Has anyone lost their position with either the Sheriff's office or the ME's office over the handling of this case? NO! I have been waiting for what seems like ages for answers to these questions, and I guess I will be waiting for some more time to pass. Amazing what you can get away with.

 

[bourne]

Has anyone of them explained away this "time delay"? NO! Has anyone been held responsible for the way Rebecca's body was left? NO! Has anyone lost their position with either the Sheriff's office or the ME's office over the handling of this case? NO! I have been waiting for what seems like ages for answers to these questions, and I guess I will be waiting for some more time to pass. Amazing what you can get away with.

In fact, au contraire, SD ME actually got PROMOTED shortly after his and LE's negligence of Rebecca's nude body. You'd think erecting a tent to shield Rebecca's body from intrusive eyes would be the FIRST thing they'd have done at the crime scene right after providing her with any aid...

Instead all we saw were helicopters and kids on rooftops hovering above the crime scene, LE trampling the crime scene, and one LE officer even admitted to stomping onto the dusty balcony where Rebecca had allegedly hanged and leaving his big bootprint on the balcony floor ON TOP of another smaller shoeprint that could very well have been left by the murderer! This is what I called INCOMPETENCE if not PURE UNPROFESSIONALISM and CORRUPTION to the nth degree.

I strenuously believe that the MURDERER got the ball rolling on LE mistreating Rebecca's body by planting the false, but very influential and manipulative seed that Rebecca "the golddigging babysitter had killed a multibillionaire's kid" and therefore "deserved what she got!"

Again, there was a large woman with a curved back who entered the Spreckels mansion that Wed morning when Rebecca's body was found, and from what an eyewitness had said upon driving by the crime scene, that woman who trespassed the crime scene tape and into the mansion to supposedly "identify" Rebecca's body was DINA.

IMO, you really need not be a rocket scientist to figure who killed Rebecca and then continued on with her vengeance to "get" Rebecca further humiliated in public and with LE.

 

[bourne]

Snipped.

If the neck is not snapped at C 1-2 in a hangmans fracture, it takes a couple minutes for someone to die of strangulation.

During that time, the heart beats, but the person is not breathing due to constriction of the neck. Fortunately for the hanged person, unconsciousness comes rapidly if the neck isn't broken, due to constriction of the great vessels in the neck.

Respiratory efforts pretty much cease at the end of the rope, either way. It just takes a bit longer for the heart to stop beating in a strangulation hanging.

What do medical experts and medical literature say about manual strangulation vs. ligature asphyxiation in terms of the neck?

Dr. Wecht had stated in the radio show re: Zahau case that the back of Rebecca's neck was completely unbruised and unfractured. Is this consistent only with manual strangulation? Does this ever happen in a long (or short) drop hanging?

 

[bourne]

Thanks iQuestion for the link to the article. I believe the following excerpts are worth noting:



Footnote: Navarro was sentenced to 15 years to life; Dunn was killed in a jail fight. Justice was served for Charles and his family. To read more about the sentencing and judges comments:
http://www.10news.com/news/man-who-stabbed-sailor-to-death-sentenced

BTW Angela Tsuida's award and commendable service has been discussed in the RZ and MS Timeline here:
Rebecca and Max Timeline - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


With so much unidentified DNA at the Spreckels crime scene, it's beyond baffling as to WHY Dina Romano Flores Shacknai's DNA was not obtained and processed, if for nothing else, to at least exclude her. Geez, DRFS could still voluntarily request that her DNA profile be included along with release of the RCH surveillance tapes to prove her innocence. Now wouldn't that be special?

Granted, the detectives were very sensitive to a mother whose one and only child was in critical condition, but they could easily have obtained it, IF THEY HAD WANTED TO, without seeming insensitive (offering a glass of water during interview maybe?), seeing as they have experience doing so.

Angela Tsuida has proven to be an exemplary detective who allowed NOTHING to deter her from bringing justice to murder victim Charles Schoeneman. So who was it that hijacked her homicide investigation into the death of Rebecca Zahu? IMO if we find the answer to that question, we find out who is responsible for Rebecca's murder and the subsequent fork-in-the-road = coverup.
:jail:

Just my opinion

It's a crying shame that Angela Tsuida appeared to have been pulled off the case or instructed to back off and not pursue any investigative angles.

Someone must have boatloads of money and/or influence to pull these LE strings. I'm guessing it was both Jonah and Dina and their pal Pfingst who was super tight with LE, even crossing the crime scene tape despite his being a defense lawyer for Adam, one of the POIs...

I've not heard of the DA or AG sending "condolence text messages" to the Zahau parents and siblings regarding Rebecca, their daughter and sister or allowing XZ, a teen child, to escape from being interviewed or polygraphed by LE. Yet I've heard from Nina's audio interview that they did so for Nina, and Max was not even her child or sibling, but a nephew. Disturbing about this special treatment, no?

 

[Serpico]

Has anyone of them explained away this "time delay"? NO! Has anyone been held responsible for the way Rebecca's body was left? NO! Has anyone lost their position with either the Sheriff's office or the ME's office over the handling of this case? NO! I have been waiting for what seems like ages for answers to these questions, and I guess I will be waiting for some more time to pass. Amazing what you can get away with.

Based off Warrant #41227...Detective Patterson said they were called into a meeting at 8:39 am on 7/13/11 about a death at 1043 Ocean Blvd. Detective Patterson filled out the necessary paperwork to get this Search Warrant and describes the scene as a HOMICIDE. Detective Patterson wasn't heard from after that day it appears.

The "word" reached downtown at 8:39 am so why didn't JONAH out of respect for Rebecca and her family and friends DEMAND ANSWERS and seek investigation:
1-who is responsible to CALL the SD Coroner's Office?
2-what TIME did the SD Coroner's Office receive that CALL?
3-how many other homicides were there in SD from midnight to 9:00am (would
think the call was received by coroner's office by then) on 7/13/11?
4- how many autopsies were scheduled on 7/13/11 from 9:00am - till 6:00pm
by ME Jonathan Lucas?
5-why was ME Lucas chosen?
6- how many other ME's are staffed in the Coroner's Office?
7-did any LE from SDSO or CPD call the Coroner's Office prior to 7:00 pm on 7/13/11 asking when someone is going to show up? Did anyone ask to at least put a tent up to shield body from heat and onlookers?
8- in the Zahau lawsuit....I hope the John Does include the SD Coroner's Office
for their unprofessional service to the community of Coronado and the Zahau family and maybe via the deposition we can get some answers.

 

[Leomoon80]

My hope and prayer is they (the Z family) will hold out for the answers through depositions, and not cave in to a pre trial settlement offer.

 

[coastal]

My hope and prayer is they (the Z family) will hold out for the answers through depositions, and not cave in to a pre trial settlement offer.

Hi Leomoon! So nice to see you here in Rebecca's forum! How've you been, how are you? What do you think about this terrible thing?

 

[Leomoon80]

Hi Leomoon! So nice to see you here in Rebecca's forum! How've you been, how are you? What do you think about this terrible thing?

Hi coastal, a friendly face from yesteryear :seeya:

I think Rebecca was murdered. There are links here outlining quite well all the questions about marks on her body, abrasions that seem not fall in line with a suicide . She'd have had to be a contortionist to do what they said she did, and I just haven't bought into it.
But we do have to admit the Sheriff's Dept. did a great job with that girl showing us how it "could" be done with ropes.
Someone mentioned *advertiser censored* tapes and certain "types" of rope knots which surprised me as I knew nothing about such things before reading here.

I mean even that mansion was sold "diddling squat fast" :twocents:

It's like everyone and I mean everyone was washing their hands of that poor girl as quickly as possible.

As for what I've been up to? Well, you can imagine guess, writing, etc.

I have 3 books out now, and a 4th coming out probably tomorrow.
The one tomorrow (currently being revised for the 3rd time (blush ) and the shortest of all of them by far, (and priced accordingly) on Amazon, is a True Crime story.

You may indeed enjoy that one. Not sure if she was written about years ago (the killer) nor the victim, but I wrote about this case elsewhere on the forum's new book section and "dateline looking for cases" which they never picked up on, so I did it myself

It's by D.M. Hoover * all my books *Kindle ebooks. There is also a free download for kindle too. Just PM me anytime and I'll send it to you.

Take care, miss you too so it's nice to run across old friends.

p.s. I'm recovering from pneumonia now into my 2nd freakin' month of recovery. It's tougher when you are my age I hear. Maybe that's why I had to revise the errors so many times but it's finally perfect and good to go.

I often think of Rebecca Z. and how she seemed to me to be used and abused But that's just, imo.

 

[kittychi]

What I find hard to believe is that with all the known science, investigators were unable to determine the exact time of Rebecca's death. I'm thinking the ambiguity in her time of death is not just because she might have been strangled first and then hanged, but that the ME decided NOT to show up immediately upon hearing about the crime but instead wasted a whole day of 13 plus hours before bothering to show up at the crime scene to examine her body. A lot of critical evidence from Rebecca's body and the crime scene were LOST during that protracted, lengthy period of time in which the ME dilly-dallied, and IMO, he did so INTENTIONALLY because of orders from higher authorities such as Sheriff Gore who believed that Rebecca deserved her tortured death.

BBM
This is a big reason that IMO it is so wrong that they concluded "suicide" instead of saying "inconclusive."