The case for murder

[branwynbreeze]

Various mattress weights

http://www.uship.com

Even at top end of 229 pounds, it seems to me the bed would have moved significantly once RZ hit end of rope. Then again, I'm an expert at not being an expert in anything.

 

[branwynbreeze]

I wonder what LE was doing for a month before they finally requested phone records. I seem to remember that LE said they were going to rely on forensics instead of re-enactment, but seriously, an entire month on such a bizarre death?

Warning: Speculation Alert!

Could it be that JS message to RZ was to remind her not to set alarm in case AS wanted a snack or something inside house? I have a few other thoughts, trying to find tactful way to say it about NR text.

 

[SunnieRN]

For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2e4f9...nd-review-of-rebecca-zahau-cell-phone-records

Please note the petitions listed in the comments section. If you feel so inclined, please sign them. Thanks and this is but a snippet of information in the article,

- snip -

They include reports of a woman's screams coming from the Shacknai mansion on Wednesday morning, July 13, heard by neighbors, and challenges to official crime scene photographs by forensic expert Dr. Maurice Godwin, Ph.D., who has documented the possibility of "crime scene staging; an action done to alter a crime scene in order to thwart police investigators."

Dr. Godwin has also discovered the impression of a man's shoe print near Ms. Zahau's bed to which she allegedly tied the end of the rope that was used in her hanging death, as seen in the attached slide show and video clip which accompany this report.

Perhaps bolstered by the recent overturning of guilty verdicts by an Italian Appeals Court in the case of Amanda Knox, in which Ms. Bremner played an advisory legal role, the attorney is also confident that justice will finally prevail for Rebecca Zahau as well.



Continue reading on Examiner.com Police release second review of Rebecca Zahau cell phone records - National News Analysis | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/news-analys...ebecca-zahau-cell-phone-records#ixzz1aJqoMTmo

 

[time]

I agree 100%. Very odd. Like he wanted to shut the door on RZ. Speaking of shut doors, according to http://www.cbs8.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

<snip>

So question is which is the actual undisturbed crime scene balcony? If it was as Nesbit said, the first exterior photo, the way LE found the doors was that the door on the right was bolted lock, and the left door remained open, correct?

<snip>
From the footprint pics of dirty balcony, it appeared that RZ had stood directly in midline between two doors, with her feet in a V-shape. If RZ kept the door on the right bolted shut and only the left one was opened, she would have had to shuffle sideways with her ankles bound and with her back to the doors to get herself aligned midway between the two doors to form her precise V-shaped footprints. If she indeed had to shuffle over to align herself in the center of the two doors, there should be more than the one pair of V-shaped footprints, yes? We would have seen a lot of scurried footprints towards the midline of the two doors.

First, the single pair of V-shaped footprints in the midline of the two doors dispels the LE theory that one door had already been bolted shut when RZ allegedly killed herself. Again, if we are to believe that RZ acted alone, both doors would have to be opened.


Second, how did RZ hop from V-shaped footprints 2.5 feet forward to make only the visible right toeprints with her ankles bound?

Great analysis!!!

I was confused by where things were on the balcony (rope, footprints, dust removal) in relation to the door so I went back to get a pic of the full balcony showing the door (shown below upper left). Are you sure those V-shaped prints are midway? Or am I missing where they are exactly?

http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19055&d=1317941606

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

May not matter, but is the depth of the balcony two feet?

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/14/rebecca-zahau-case-the-geometry-in-rebeccas-fall/

The balcony is 24&#8243; from threshold to railing.

 

[Zale]

Great analysis!!!

I was confused by where things were on the balcony (rope, footprints, dust removal) in relation to the door so I went back to get a pic of the full balcony showing the door (shown below upper left). Are you sure those V-shaped prints are midway? Or am I missing where they are exactly?

http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19055&d=1317941606

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8764.jpg

May not matter, but is the depth of the balcony two feet?

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/14/rebecca-zahau-case-the-geometry-in-rebeccas-fall/

Thank you so much for the actual images and measurements! Now that I have them, I will have to revise my analysis.

Looks like her v-shaped heelprints are 5 inches to the left of the midway between the doors so she would not have had to shuffle, and the door on the right could have been completely bolted shut.

However, if balcony depth is only 2 feet, it looks like she hopped forward only 16 inches (1 foot and 4 inches), which in my estimation with her ankles bound with a maximum wiggle-room of 2 inches is still physically impossible. She'd have had to make several hops or clumsily shuffle forward towards balcony railing.

So conclusion is the sheriff may have been truthful about the door on the right having been bolted shut. But the LE's conclusion that RZ committed suicide is still wrong as it was physically impossible for RZ to hop forward 16 inches with ankles bound onto tippy toes and then hurl herself sideways and lopsided to the left over the 36" balcony railing from 6 inches behind railing and only scraping the railing 3 inches wide.

 

[time]

Thank you so much for the actual images and measurements! Now that I have them, I will have to revise my analysis.

Looks like her v-shaped heelprints are 5 inches to the left of the midway between the doors so she would not have had to shuffle, and the door on the right could have been completely bolted shut.

However, if balcony depth is only 2 feet, it looks like she hopped forward only 16 inches (1 foot and 4 inches), which in my estimation with her ankles bound with a maximum wiggle-room of 2 inches is still physically impossible. She'd have had to make several hops or clumsily shuffle forward towards balcony railing.

So conclusion is the sheriff may have been truthful about the door on the right having been bolted shut. But the LE's conclusion that RZ committed suicide is still wrong as it was physically impossible for RZ to hop forward 16 inches with ankles bound onto tippy toes and then hurl herself sideways and lopsided to the left over the 36" balcony railing from 6 inches behind railing and only scraping the railing 3 inches wide.

I really appreciate your info and analysis. I'm still not sure the door closed makes sense... still looking at the rope and such also. I haven't had time to look again at it all, there's just more there bothering me that doesn't add up, can't put my finger on it :waitasec: ... so I am going to reread what you've written later and see

 

[time]

Ok, just remembered one or two things that bother me. Maybe others can comment.

If Rebecca went off the balcony, the excess rope must have been bunched up on the floor in the bedroom (I can buy that). That bunch of rope was heavy enough that non of the excess ended up trailing on the balcony floor (hence no trail in the dust from the rope).

But, if the right door was closed/locked and she went over the balcony, was there signs of the rope creating friction on the door edge? Maybe this proves nothing one way or the other, but shows the mechanism in process. Also, I still think if she went over the balcony with the rope angling out the door from the bed, she would have ended up hanging center (stopped by the closed door... so the rope would have had to have pulled across the dust on the balcony edge quite a ways (say 9 inches

 

[lauriej]

..interesting new article today by Valhall.


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/10/rebecca-zahau-case-the-t-shirt/

Rebecca Zahau case: The T-shirt

 

[SunnieRN]

..interesting new article today by Valhall.


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/10/rebecca-zahau-case-the-t-shirt/

Rebecca Zahau case: The T-shirt

Snippet:


I began the wrappings with the body of the t-shirt to my front, like a bib, just as the autopsy report describes and wrapped the t-shirt sleeves around my neck three times, stretching them as tight as I could in order to try to get as many wrappings as I possibly could. I could, in fact, get the sleeves to meet up at the front of my neck as described in the autopsy report after 3 wrappings, but there was no way to tie a single knot with enough material left over to have a portion of sleeve (as has been reported) available to stick in my mouth. In fact, it would have been pretty difficult to get the single knot tied at all, and I had the sleeves stretched as far I could. (I’d like to add that this was uncomfortably tight to the point of beginning to block my airway.)

But there’s more of a problem here. Rebecca is accused of wrapping this t-shirt three times around the outside of the rope ligature on her neck, so that would have made it even more difficult to pull off what is described if she were using one of her own t-shirts that was her size (which should either be a small or medium in a woman’s size, depending on her breast size). In order to get a correctly-sized t-shirt wrapped three times around this ligature and her neck and still get a double knot (forget the gag for now), the t-shirt would have to be wrapped so tight that this binding alone would result in a significant restriction in airflow, and could very likely lead to losing consciousness. In fact, as tight as my t-shirt was in the multiple attempts I made, in which I couldn’t even get a single knot tied without getting too tight for my own good, I would have to have someone there to watch over me before attempting anything more for fear I’d pass out.

 

[stilettos]

Snippet:


I began the wrappings with the body of the t-shirt to my front, like a bib, just as the autopsy report describes and wrapped the t-shirt sleeves around my neck three times, stretching them as tight as I could in order to try to get as many wrappings as I possibly could. I could, in fact, get the sleeves to meet up at the front of my neck as described in the autopsy report after 3 wrappings, but there was no way to tie a single knot with enough material left over to have a portion of sleeve (as has been reported) available to stick in my mouth. In fact, it would have been pretty difficult to get the single knot tied at all, and I had the sleeves stretched as far I could. (I’d like to add that this was uncomfortably tight to the point of beginning to block my airway.)

But there’s more of a problem here. Rebecca is accused of wrapping this t-shirt three times around the outside of the rope ligature on her neck, so that would have made it even more difficult to pull off what is described if she were using one of her own t-shirts that was her size (which should either be a small or medium in a woman’s size, depending on her breast size). In order to get a correctly-sized t-shirt wrapped three times around this ligature and her neck and still get a double knot (forget the gag for now), the t-shirt would have to be wrapped so tight that this binding alone would result in a significant restriction in airflow, and could very likely lead to losing consciousness. In fact, as tight as my t-shirt was in the multiple attempts I made, in which I couldn’t even get a single knot tied without getting too tight for my own good, I would have to have someone there to watch over me before attempting anything more for fear I’d pass out.

I always thought that someone else would have had to wrap that t-shirt around her neck and bindings....and that it would have been a violent wrapping. JMO

 

[time]

..interesting new article today by Valhall.


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/10/rebecca-zahau-case-the-t-shirt/

Rebecca Zahau case: The T-shirt

Thanks! I'm glad she did another experiment!

In order to get a correctly-sized t-shirt wrapped three times around this ligature and her neck and still get a double knot (forget the gag for now), the t-shirt would have to be wrapped so tight that this binding alone would result in a significant restriction in airflow, and could very likely lead to losing consciousness. In fact, as tight as my t-shirt was in the multiple attempts I made, in which I couldn&#8217;t even get a single knot tied without getting too tight for my own good, I would have to have someone there to watch over me before attempting anything more for fear I&#8217;d pass out. Okay, so we are left with two options here: 1.) The t-shirt was not a t-shirt correctly sized for Rebecca, or 2.) the t-shirt was and it was so tight it could have been a strangulation device prior to her going over the rail

Interesting possibility.

From the coourtyeard pics, I'm having a difficult time seeing enough bulk for any size tshirt to have been wrapped around her neck 3 times, but especially a large one (more bulk)? The only thing I can fathom is that it was a long sleeve shirt out of extremely thin stretchy material. I have one like that, it looks like a tshirt sort of.

And, would an extremely tight tshirt tied around the outside of the ligature for any time period leave more pronounced rope marks on her neck?

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Thanks! I'm glad she did another experiment!

Interesting possibility.

From the coourtyeard pics, I'm having a difficult time seeing enough bulk for any size tshirt to have been wrapped around her neck 3 times, but especially a large one (more bulk)? The only thing I can fathom is that it was a long sleeve shirt out of extremely thin stretchy material. I have one like that, it looks like a tshirt sort of.

And, would an extremely tight tshirt tied around the outside of the ligature for any time period leave more pronounced rope marks on her neck?

A gag tied that way to stop her screams from being heard, so it won't fall out.

 

[sdcali]

Thanks! I'm glad she did another experiment!

Interesting possibility.

From the coourtyeard pics, I'm having a difficult time seeing enough bulk for any size tshirt to have been wrapped around her neck 3 times, but especially a large one (more bulk)? The only thing I can fathom is that it was a long sleeve shirt out of extremely thin stretchy material. I have one like that, it looks like a tshirt sort of.

And, would an extremely tight tshirt tied around the outside of the ligature for any time period leave more pronounced rope marks on her neck?

I have a super thin stretchy long sleeve T also and agree...would love to see a photo of the T-shirt.

 

[Zale]

Ok, just remembered one or two things that bother me. Maybe others can comment.

If Rebecca went off the balcony, the excess rope must have been bunched up on the floor in the bedroom (I can buy that). That bunch of rope was heavy enough that non of the excess ended up trailing on the balcony floor (hence no trail in the dust from the rope).

But, if the right door was closed/locked and she went over the balcony, was there signs of the rope creating friction on the door edge? Maybe this proves nothing one way or the other, but shows the mechanism in process. Also, I still think if she went over the balcony with the rope angling out the door from the bed, she would have ended up hanging center (stopped by the closed door... so the rope would have had to have pulled across the dust on the balcony edge quite a ways (say 9 inches

That's a good question! Were there rope fibers found on edge of right door where the rope would have made contact had the right door been closed when RZ went over balcony? If there weren't any, well, that surely would mean someone else closed the door AFTER she went over and if it wasn't LE who closed the door then it had to be the murderer!

Regarding the rope sliding across the balcony railing to create 9 inches of dust, well, from pic #3 on http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/14/rebecca-zahau-case-the-geometry-in-rebeccas-fall/ there is a gap with multiple clearings of dust from E to F to the final resting place of the rope which is unmarked in the pic but I shall call "Z". This gap of dust clearings appear consistent with the rope having skipped (rather than slide) many times across the railing when RZ's body went over, and the rope, once taut, her body then bounced around until the rope from her neck to bedpost re-aligned itself in accordance with gravity and forces exerted by bedpost to position Z.

Since the final position looks to be right around midline of balcony and midline between the two doors, that appears to fit with the right door having been closed at time of her death. However, I'd like to have forensics assert that they found fibers consistent with the hanging rope along the edge of the door to confirm that indeed the right door had been shut when she went over railing.

Here's a question I have. Looking at same pic#3, there are two relatively large, dust-free gaps at A and D only. To me, these gaps are consistent with someone having been thrown over from their side, with RZ's left thigh scraping against gap A and with her knee bent, her left foot scraping against gap D.

I'm curious to know whether forensics found dust on the outer edge of her left foot. I think if they did, this would be one clincher that someone else had thrown RZ over the balcony - because there is no physical way could she have jumped from her right tippy-toes to a full sideways position over the balcony railing.

 

[SunnieRN]

Read the comments, especially Playmuni's here:


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1367&start=500

 

[time]

I have a super thin stretchy long sleeve T also and agree...would love to see a photo of the T-shirt.

Yes, I think the thickness of the material would make a difference.

 

[time]

That's a good question! Were there rope fibers found on edge of right door where the rope would have made contact had the right door been closed when RZ went over balcony? If there weren't any, well, that surely would mean someone else closed the door AFTER she went over and if it wasn't LE who closed the door then it had to be the murderer!

Regarding the rope sliding across the balcony railing to create 9 inches of dust, well, from pic #3 on http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/14/rebecca-zahau-case-the-geometry-in-rebeccas-fall/ there is a gap with multiple clearings of dust from E to F to the final resting place of the rope which is unmarked in the pic but I shall call "Z". This gap of dust clearings appear consistent with the rope having skipped (rather than slide) many times across the railing when RZ's body went over, and the rope, once taut, her body then bounced around until the rope from her neck to bedpost re-aligned itself in accordance with gravity and forces exerted by bedpost to position Z.

Since the final position looks to be right around midline of balcony and midline between the two doors, that appears to fit with the right door having been closed at time of her death. However, I'd like to have forensics assert that they found fibers consistent with the hanging rope along the edge of the door to confirm that indeed the right door had been shut when she went over railing.

Here's a question I have. Looking at same pic#3, there are two relatively large, dust-free gaps at A and D only. To me, these gaps are consistent with someone having been thrown over from their side, with RZ's left thigh scraping against gap A and with her knee bent, her left foot scraping against gap D.

I'm curious to know whether forensics found dust on the outer edge of her left foot. I think if they did, this would be one clincher that someone else had thrown RZ over the balcony - because there is no physical way could she have jumped from her right tippy-toes to a full sideways position over the balcony railing.

Well said ... I think you are right, she was thrown over on her side. That makes sense also because of the way you would pick someone up. She could not have gone over that balcony front first, by herself without swiping a large clearing of dust. She could not get over herself sideways, swiping only her thigh.

Per the rope scraping across the doorway - seems it should show some wear signs also. It would be pulled across that door fairly fast and pulled into it when Rebecca reached the end of the rope?

 

[time]

Read the comments, especially Playmuni's here:


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1367&start=500

I think right on the money about the timeline!

 

[time]

Sunnie... back up a page on that link and there is an interesting discussion concerning Dina's timeline on the 12th. Hadn't heard the time for her was in dispute between 6-8pm.

 

[SunnieRN]

From Val Hall, did Rebecca have the ability to go over the balcony railing as LE stated?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7G8JN3IzVE"]RZAttempt1.MTS - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYn010FB8c8"]RZAttempt2.MTS - YouTube[/ame]