The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Mrs G Norris]

It is well established that she was fully dresesed, hair done and make-up on when the first officers arrived.

I think while it may be proof that she never went to sleep that night, the fact that she put on clothes she wore the day before for about 5 hours does not necessarily raise any red flags for me. I live in the deep south and it would be nasty to try to wear the same sweaty, damp from humidity clothes 2 days in a row without laundering them. However I have spent quite a few fall seasons in the permafrost of northern Canada and wearing the same clothes 2 days in a row was not icky at all. The clothes did not get nasty from sweat or rumpled from humidity. It was the first time in my life that my clothes looked as fresh at the end of the day as at the beginning. Of course, tropical weather clothes are different from permafrost Canada clothes but I assume that Rocky Mountain winter clothes could be worn 2 days in a row or more without them looking bad or smelling.

I can 100% see myself jumping out of bed, pulling on last night's winter clothes, refreshing make up (maybe even over slept-in make up) and fluffing up last night's hair do in order to board my private plane to my vacation house. No one but family is going to see me. But for the private plane, I have done the exact same thing.

I don't think the clothes prove she was up all night even though she likely was. It just isn't something I would consider in making that conclusion. Rather I believe that once she discovered JBR's damaged body, she couldn't sleep if she wanted to. She may have laid on the bed, fully dressed until it was time to call LE.

I don't agree, because if I'm getting on a plane for travel I'm going to wear something other than what I would wear to an evening Christmas party. Also when she went downstairs it was only to make coffee, most people would only throw a dressing gown over their night clothes before doing so, especially before 6am! She only expected to see family, getting John and the kids ready at that time, and would be unlikely dressed. The 7 minutes between the call and police arriving is nowhere near long enough time to dress and put on makeup .. IMO she stayed up all night.

 

[mauidreemn]

The main problem with the CBS special is that every single person on the show had/has a stake in the case. They have stated his or her opinions years ago. They would look like fools if they are wrong

 

[Tortoise]

and, we cannot forget the crime scene photo where only ONE side of J&P's bed appeared to be slept in.....

I wonder if they ever asked John which side of the bed on which he slept?

They did, it was the north side, whichever side that is.

 

[Tortoise]

The main problem with the CBS special is that every single person on the show had/has a stake in the case. They have stated his or her opinions years ago. They would look like fools if they are wrong

every single person?

 

[mauidreemn]

I don't agree, because if I'm getting on a plane for travel I'm going to wear something other than what I would wear to an evening Christmas party. Also when she went downstairs it was only to make coffee, most people would only throw a dressing gown over their night clothes before doing so, especially before 6am! She only expected to see family, getting John and the kids ready at that time, and would be unlikely dressed. The 7 minutes between the call and police arriving is nowhere near long enough time to dress and put on makeup .. IMO she stayed up all night.

This is their private plane. They hardly pack any clothes as they have them in Michigan

 

[johnjay]

I don't agree, because if I'm getting on a plane for travel I'm going to wear something other than what I would wear to an evening Christmas party. Also when she went downstairs it was only to make coffee, most people would only throw a dressing gown over their night clothes before doing so, especially before 6am! She only expected to see family, getting John and the kids ready at that time, and would be unlikely dressed. The 7 minutes between the call and police arriving is nowhere near long enough time to dress and put on makeup .. IMO she stayed up all night.

Yes, I'm thinking she spent a long time sitting outside JBR's bedroom crying.

 

[AGettler]

Okay, you are attacking people's response to the evidence, but where is your counter evidence? Attacking an opinion isn't evidence either. Look at the evidence, then come back with your theory of the crime.

Yes, attacking people's responses without offering counter evidence is perfectly fine. It is called skepticism and is completely valid and appropriate. This CBS special upset me because it seemed there were no skeptics among the specialists. Granted the show had to be edited and they may have cut out such skepticism, but then the editing is poor as it makes all of the specialists all look like they had their minds made up a long time ago and were not going to budge on their beliefs regarding the case.

I would like Brendon to have been there in the room, not as an expert, but as a skeptic to poke holes in theories and opinions.

5 gold stars for you, Brendon, for being level headed.

 

[carolinea]

Burke stated that he liked having pineapple for a snack. Patsy's comments aren't worth taking into consideration, since she would lie to cover for him.

The size of the bowl and spoon also seems like a nonissue to me. It was just after Christmas and the housekeeper hadn't been in. Perhaps there were no other bowls/utensils clean, so whoever prepared the snack just grabbed what was available.

The green part of the pineapple was rind. It's stated by Kolar in his AMA that the bowl contained pineapple with rind on it. One of the studies also stated that the pineapple in Jonbenet's system had rind in it. This is from the "Bonita Papers":

In February, 1998, detectives from the Boulder police department asked their assistance in conducting an analysis of the contents from the intestine obtained during the autopsy. At the initial examination, Coroner Meyer had suspected that the retrieved substance was pineapple fragments. The bowl of pineapple detectives found on the dining room table at the Ramsey residence the morning of December 26 had been taken into evidence that morning and frozen for future comparison studies. After examining the two samples, the biology professors confirmed that the intestinal substance were pineapple, and that both this specimen and the pineapple found in the bowl contained portions of the outer rind of the fruit.

The theory that Jonbenet took some pineapple from Burke's bowl seems like a stretch to me. If indeed the pineapple came from a store-bought container, she could just as easily have reached into that and grabbed a piece. Presumably it would have been out of the fridge while the person was preparing the snack.

This is their private plane. They hardly pack any clothes as they have them in Michigan

Ah, but they had previously visited during the summer. Why would they have winter clothes there?

 

[mauidreemn]

every single person?

Yep. Google them. Who wants to be proved wrong when your bread and butter comes from being an "expert".

 

[johnjay]

The main problem with the CBS special is that every single person on the show had/has a stake in the case. They have stated his or her opinions years ago. They would look like fools if they are wrong

What exactly did you find wrong with the evidence they presented?

Do you think someone could have come in the basement window without disturbing the spider web?

Do you really believe using a stun gun on a 6 year old while her parents are in the house makes sense? Or that the marks match?

Do you not hear a child's voice on the 911 call?

Is it not obvious that the touch DNA is noise not evidence?

What evidence do you think they misrepresented?

 

[mauidreemn]

Burke stated that he liked having pineapple for a snack. Patsy's comments aren't worth taking into consideration, since she would lie to cover for him.

The size of the bowl and spoon also seems like a nonissue to me. It was just after Christmas and the housekeeper hadn't been in. Perhaps there were no other bowls/utensils clean, so whoever prepared the snack just grabbed what was available.

The green part of the pineapple was rind. It's stated by Kolar in his AMA that the bowl contained pineapple with rind on it. One of the studies also stated that the pineapple in Jonbenet's system had rind in it. This is from the "Bonita Papers":



The theory that Jonbenet took some pineapple from Burke's bowl seems like a stretch to me. If indeed the pineapple came from a store-bought container, she could just as easily have reached into that and grabbed a piece. Presumably it would have been out of the fridge while the person was preparing the snack.



Ah, but they had previously visited during the summer. Why would they have winter clothes there?

They had been to Michigan in the winter. They had clothes there. It isn't disputed.

As for the pineapple, did you see the crime scene photos? They never cleaned the breakfast dishes. And the way the bowl of pineapple and glass is on the corner of the table. Which indicates to me, it was grabbed during the day on the 25th.

 

[Tortoise]

They had been to Michigan in the winter. They had clothes there. It isn't disputed.

As for the pineapple, did you see the crime scene photos? They never cleaned the breakfast dishes. And the way the bowl of pineapple and glass is on the corner of the table. Which indicates to me, it was grabbed during the day on the 25th.

How do you know this? I ask because Patsy said in her police 1998 interview it was their first ever winter trip there. I'm not saying she tells the truth but I wonder what your source of information is.

And as regards the breakfast on 25th, they said they had pancakes with bacon. That is not to say pineapple wasn't an afternoon snack for the kids before they went to the White's.

 

[SecretaryGal]

I agree. PR and JR probably spent hours sobbing

 

[TheOtherChristina]

They had been to Michigan in the winter. They had clothes there. It isn't disputed.

As for the pineapple, did you see the crime scene photos? They never cleaned the breakfast dishes. And the way the bowl of pineapple and glass is on the corner of the table. Which indicates to me, it was grabbed during the day on the 25th.

If the pineapple and tea were simply breakfast remnants, why would John and Patsy both deny any knowledge of how they got there?

 

[WhoKnowsWhat]

You know what, I wasn't convinced by the train track idea either, and when they showed the wounds on the program the one to the right seemed to show signs of some healing so it didn't fit with their theory, I thought they could have been something else or an old injury.

Gosh aren't there any former Lionel train owners here? I keep waiting for one of you to speak up. My brothers had the Lionell trains and it seems like I recall the center prong came out very easily. I think the end ones may have been more fixed. Feel free to correct me

 

[carolinea]

How do you know this? I ask because Patsy said in her police 1998 interview it was their first ever winter trip there.

That's what I was basing my statement on, too. Patsy herself claimed this was the first time they'd be there for winter. Which means all their clothes in Michigan would have been summer clothing. And anyone who's been in Michigan in winter can tell you that wouldn't work. It's COLD there.

 

[TTF14]

If the pineapple and tea were simply breakfast remnants, why would John and Pasty both deny any knowledge of how they got there?

Exactly. One of them even said that nobody would prepare tea that way.....cold tea with a tea bag in it....am I remembering that right?

 

[Brendon]

Well there was a dead body found in their house and there is no evidence that points to anyone else being there. And they lied to police about very basic events in that house. There's no reason to suspect anyone but a Ramsey. And to decided which one, judgement must be applied.

The evidence that rules out an intruder is weak. And there is no proof of it.

Fibres consistent with the cord that was used to make the slip knots and garrote were found on JonBenet's bed. That in itself is reason enough to suspect an intruder and not any of the Ramseys. If someone they knew who had stayed at the house and was familiar with the house did it, then it explains a lot.

 

[johnjay]

Gosh aren't there any former Lionel train owners here? I keep waiting for one of you to speak up. My brothers had the Lionell trains and it seems like I recall the center prong came out very easily. I think the end ones may have been more fixed. Feel free to correct me

They all pop in and out. I browsed EBAY and it wasn't hard to find tracks with pins missing. More telling was how many people were selling bags of spare pins. I had HO trains not O gauge, it hurt when you got stuck with those too!

 

[Heymom]

The evidence that rules out an intruder is weak. And there is no proof of it.

Fibres consistent with the cord that was used to make the slip knots and garrote were found on JonBenet's bed. That in itself is reason enough to suspect an intruder and not any of the Ramseys. If someone they knew who had stayed at the house and was familiar with the house did it, then it explains a lot.

Give me one good reason why a grand jury would have charged Patsy and John with neglect leading to homicide if there had been an intruder. No parent could be charged with neglect unless their actions were purposefully negligent of a child's safety. If an intruder had come into that house through some kind of magic, there is no way it was either parent's fault.

John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey had not done enough to protect their daughter from someone else in the house who could hurt her. Only 4 people in that house.