The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[johnjay]

I wish we could sticky this. I've been saying this for years! People think that because they haven't seen the evidence, it doesn't exist. ullhair:

Yes, we know there is evidence, we just don't know if it's strong enough to convict beyond reasonable doubt. Of course, we're not in a court of law and we're not held to that standard.

 

[Ambitioned]

At JonBenet's funeral, Burke showed no signs of distress or sadness. He did not cry, did not look visibly sad, or anything appropriate to a funeral. You can see clips of his behavior on Youtube. Before her casket was lowered into the ground, he left off what he was doing with his friend, went over to her casket, patted it a couple of times, and then went off with his friend, skipping through the cemetery. He was largely untroubled by what had just taken place.

Not only that, he chatted with Doug about her strangling as if it were a random person

 

[Brendon]

Respectfully snipped for focus:

If Burke killed Jonbenet, wouldn't she spend her remaining days angry at herself for not protecting Jonbenet? Burke was a child, albeit probably a mentally disturbed one (IMO); it was ultimately JR and PR's job to protect Jonbenet. I mean, if you had a family dog that kept growling at, antagonizing, and biting your child, but you keep the dog in the house with your vulnerable child, and keep leaving your vulnerable child alone with the dog unsupervised, and the dog eventually kills your child....who's ultimately to blame there? Clearly the GJ saw far more than we have, and they moved to indict the parents for exactly this.

I think the housekeeper said BR was always violent to JB, and that it was getting out of control. I can't remember how many times he hit her with the golf clubs, but I speculate it was often. The parents probably kept that hidden. That the parents kept the violence BR did to JB is enough to indict. jmo

 

[PositiveLight]

I think the housekeeper said BR was always violent to JB, and that it was getting out of control. I can't remember how many times he hit her with the golf clubs, but I speculate it was often. The parents probably kept that hidden. That the parents kept the violence BR did to JB is enough to indict. jmo

I wonder if that is why PR was so stressed in the weeks leading up to JBR's death. The house keeper said she was very stressed. Maybe it was due to BR violence increasing and her feeling out of control of the situation.

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[TeaTime]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but anyone else thinks this bed looks like it was possibly only used on one side?

-Nin

It did not go unnoticed by LE either.

 

[Whiteorchids]

The duct tape and cord around the wrists would have been part of the staging. She could have tried to undo the garotte or the cord used could have been from something of hers--just like the paintbrush was hers. I believe it was taken from a nearby tote that belonged to Patsy.

I think the intruder wore gloves and was in the house lurking around while the family was at the Christmas party. He familiarized himself inside the home. He made the items with what he found around the house. This case reminds me of Danielle Van Dam case killed by neighbor David Westerfield who went into the house while the family was there, She had been in bed sleeping before he kidnaped and left with her in his Motorhome and killed her. Also Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped taken while the family was sleeping. I think he was going to take her out the window using the suitcase but the plan fell apart and he had a backup plan to kill her. He probably found PR writings in a drawer and copied her penmanship. I don't buy this family coverup at all. I don't care if grand jury indicted parents or not. You don't think they make wrong decisions? They are chosen from the public and are just like you and I. I think they were pressured into it.

 

[PositiveLight]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but anyone else thinks this bed looks like it was possibly only used on one side?

-Nin

I like how at the bottom of the picture it says it's a crime scene photo and not to be published [emoji23] (I'm grasping for things that will make me laugh at this point...) don't ask me why this made me laugh! I can't help but wonder if maybe they didn't even sleep in the same room. They just were never affectionate imho.

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[Heymom]

I wonder if that is why PR was so stressed in the weeks leading up to JBR's death. The house keeper said she was very stressed. Maybe it was due to BR violence increasing and her feeling out of control of the situation.

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Well I can tell you that December is *always* stressful when you have young children....I found it to be so anyway. There are school programs, teacher gifts, decorating, cooking, planning parties, buying presents for service people, etc. etc. etc. At the best of times it's very hectic. And just look at all of the travel plans JR & PR had in place - the trip to Charlevoix to see the big kids as well as the cruise.

Now if you add in the fact that your son seems to be acting out and hurting his sister, and you are trying to portray a perfect family to the world, that adds an extra dimension into the mix. A perfect storm, if you will.

 

[Magdalyn]

I think the intruder wore gloves and was in the house lurking around while the family was at the Christmas party. He familiarized himself inside the home. He made the items with what he found around the house. This case reminds me of Danielle Van Dam case killed by neighbor David Westerfield who went into the house while the family was there, Shel was in bed he left with her in his Motorhome and killed her. Also Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped taken while the family was sleeping. I think he was going to take her out the window using the suitcase but the plan fell apart and he had a backup plan to kill her. He probably found PR writings in a drawer and copied her penmanship. I don't buy this family coverup at all. I don't care if grand jury indicted parents or not. You don't think they make wrong decisions? They are chosen from the public and are just like you and I. I think they were pressured into it.

From Websleuths Forum Owner Tricia:

Dear Websleuths Members,

Our rules at Websleuths are rarely black and white. Many time we have to adjust rules for certain forums.

One rule we do our best to follow is who is allowed to be discussed when it comes to the particular crime committed.

We discuss possible perpetrators based on the mainstream media and police reports.

We do not allow posters to drag innocent people into a discussion and accuse them of a crime.

Because of this rule, we only discuss John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey in this forum.

Those three people have not been cleared by the police and the current District Attorney.

There is nothing to suggest an intruder. The DNA is a red herring. Look at the note, the pineapple, all the evidence in the house, the behavior of the three people in the house, look at all these things. Until all of these things can be explained and logical evidence is offered to show an intruder we will not allow innocent people to be discussed as the possible killer. Just like any other forum on Websleuths.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-The-3-People-in-the-House-when-JonBenet-Died

 

[PositiveLight]

I think the intruder wore gloves and was in the house lurking around while the family was at the Christmas party. He familiarized himself inside the home. He made the items with what he found around the house. This case reminds me of Danielle Van Dam case killed by neighbor David Westerfield who went into the house while the family was there, Shel was in bed he left with her in his Motorhome and killed her. Also Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped taken while the family was sleeping. I think he was going to take her out the window using the suitcase but the plan fell apart and he had a backup plan to kill her. He probably found PR writings in a drawer and copied her penmanship. I don't buy this family coverup at all. I don't care if grand jury indicted parents or not. You don't think they make wrong decisions? They are chosen from the public and are just like you and I. I think they were pressured into it.

Actually I think the intruder theory is more crazy in this situation. Danielle I think was taken and smart was taken quickly. They did not stick around for 8+ hours. (That's if he was in the home before they got home). Also both victims were removed from their homes. Neither was found inside their home dead, with a ransom note. Nor had they been fed food from the home. JMOO but the intruder theory just doesn't make sense in this case. Yes there are kids that are kidnapped from their homes while family are asleep inside. But none have also been tortured and killed in their home. Granted, that house was massive but I don't think an intruder could get comfortable in the house that size and find the items he found to use during the crime. Are we to believe he also took the favorite blanket out of the dryer and wrapped her up in it also? And if an intruder did break in to the home, he would've known if the security system was working and would likely use a dang door to leave with her instead of a small weirdly angled window. It's just too bizarre in this situation to even think it's decent theory.

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[Linda7NJ]

I think the intruder wore gloves and was in the house lurking around while the family was at the Christmas party. He familiarized himself inside the home. He made the items with what he found around the house. This case reminds me of Danielle Van Dam case killed by neighbor David Westerfield who went into the house while the family was there, She had been in bed sleeping before he kidnaped and left with her in his Motorhome and killed her. Also Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped taken while the family was sleeping. I think he was going to take her out the window using the suitcase but the plan fell apart and he had a backup plan to kill her. He probably found PR writings in a drawer and copied her penmanship. I don't buy this family coverup at all. I don't care if grand jury indicted parents or not. You don't think they make wrong decisions? They are chosen from the public and are just like you and I. I think they were pressured into it.

There was no intruder -


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[PositiveLight]

Well I can tell you that December is *always* stressful when you have young children....I found it to be so anyway. There are school programs, teacher gifts, decorating, cooking, planning parties, buying presents for service people, etc. etc. etc. At the best of times it's very hectic. And just look at all of the travel plans JR & PR had in place - the trip to Charlevoix to see the big kids as well as the cruise.

Now if you add in the fact that your son seems to be acting out and hurting his sister, and you are trying to portray a perfect family to the world, that adds an extra dimension into the mix. A perfect storm, if you will.

Yes exactly. A perfect storm. Just reading their schedule made me tired! Supposedly PR was always over extending herself IIRC.

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[Heymom]

I think the intruder wore gloves and was in the house lurking around while the family was at the Christmas party. He familiarized himself inside the home. He made the items with what he found around the house. This case reminds me of Danielle Van Dam case killed by neighbor David Westerfield who went into the house while the family was there, She had been in bed sleeping before he kidnaped and left with her in his Motorhome and killed her. Also Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped taken while the family was sleeping. I think he was going to take her out the window using the suitcase but the plan fell apart and he had a backup plan to kill her. He probably found PR writings in a drawer and copied her penmanship. I don't buy this family coverup at all. I don't care if grand jury indicted parents or not. You don't think they make wrong decisions? They are chosen from the public and are just like you and I. I think they were pressured into it.

Did we suddenly beam back into 1998 or something? If so, my extra weight came with me, I want a refund!

 

[dizzychick]

Well you are assuming Burke did everything, and there is no evidence for that. But even if he did, why do you think it doesn't make sense for the parents to cover for him?

And why do you think it was planned?

im wondering what happened to some of the evidence like the duct tape roll and the rope ? Was wondering if that boiler is gas fired and therefore could have been used to burn the evidence?

 

[dizzychick]

The odds of an intruder are what 24 % and something like 76% of an inside job ( I read this somewhere) ? The ransom note IMO sinks their ship, who knew about the 118K? Only the payroll department and CPA's for Access Graphics besides the family ofcourse. This is always what I think about everytime some random ninja intruder is suggested as the killer. I wish I could see the full interview of John's taken I guess by the cops, its grainy and he is hinting at his own friends as possible suspects. If I were his friend I would have been livid that he was willing to throw anyone he could under the bus to save his family

 

[ThinkHard]

Just catching up.....but as I do I wanted to throw out this thought I had today.

Some people have speculated that it must have been Patsy because of the monologue she performed, and It being her favorite and the bits about the pineapple....etc. and summarized that this was an indication of it all being her.

BUT IF this book was a favored would this have been something that she would have introduced her children to? Would her children have been read this book? Would they have been familiar with the plot and details?

If you combine that with it also being tied to pageantry stuff, and possibly jealously over extra attention due to pageantry stuff.....then perhaps Burke could have associated that monologue and story with things he most hated.....I dunno just a thought.


Btw this also made me wonder if perhaps Burke ever tried to insert himself in the pageant stuff, I know sometimes little boys, even those who grow up cis-gender sometimes want to wear their sisters clothes. Which made me think for some reason of the pageantry stuff starting after she went through treatment for ovarian cancer, and I though oy vey, Frued would have had a field day with this one......anyway....sorry for that tangent at the end.

 

[Tortoise]

im wondering what happened to some of the evidence like the duct tape roll and the rope ? Was wondering if that boiler is gas fired and therefore could have been used to burn the evidence?

Does anyone know if they were allowed to take an overnight bag with them and if so was it checked?

 

[ThinkHard]

Sexual abuse isn't always motivated by sexual gratification... Power, control, etc. are often the motivation

You're putting words in my mouth, or your simply misunderstanding.

I said I don't see her getting a high from sexual abuse. I didn't say that meant a sexual high, nor did I say that sexual abuse was about sexual gratification. I'm well aware that sexual crimes are about control and power....which are both still types of highs.

 

[fedfan4life]

Is that Jacques2 that Burke is holding?

I'm DYING! You are devastated over that poor little dog.

Looks like a cat actually.

And, I'm still laughing.

 

[dizzychick]

Does anyone know if they were allowed to take an overnight bag with them and if so was it checked?

as far as I know the cops didnt do much to corral them those first few days, I think they did what they pleased. I hope someone checked the boiler room furnace cause its drving me nuts LOL I would have immediately ordered them all out and locked the doors even before her body was found, I thought all cops knew that