The Crime Scene and Investigation

[Chelly]

Excellent questions in #352 Dmacky. I love dealing with facts too and wondering about them. Somehow I can't wrap my head around CWW hating TS so much that he'd need to kill her to keep her quiet if MS was not somehow involved. It would be great if MS is innocent, but I can't overlook that close long-term and odd relationship between MS and CWW. There is a thread of connection there. We need to learn what it is.

 

[creepingskills]

I get hung up HERE, every single time. I keep finding myself going BACK to these few known "Facts"
TS was found murdered on Monday morning June 29th.
Her home on Jarvis Road is yellow taped off from the public from June 29 until the 3rd of July. (5 days) BUT yellow crime tape is put back up for one day.

Her funeral is held on Monday July 6.

No its Not's great sleuthing skills remembered that the yellow tape was put back up on July 6, the SAME day of the funeral
Video ~ Compliments go to No its Not for posting this. Go to 2:16

[video=youtube;T4EZOCpYxN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4EZOCpYxN4[/video]

Now, here is what is driving me crazy. One more FACT before I start with the What If's. CWW's house was raided on Sunday, July 12 at 6am. 6 days AFTER the funeral.

It tells me/us that LE was on to him pretty quickly. What if MS is totally innocent, and knew WW hated TS? Was she going to fire him or turn him in for something, that MS possibly MAY have inadvertently told CWW about? etc.
There are endless possibilities here.

Did LE already suspect CWW, when they attended her funeral? Was that a setup made between LE and MS? Did they have Mark call CWW and invite him to the funeral? Have him meet at the Siever house to get fingerprints to match latent fingerprints? Did they need for CWW to drink from a glass? Endless possibilities here.

The raid on CWW's house 6 days after the funeral also tells me that they had to find something in his house that led them to look at surveillance tape in THAT Fort Myers Florida, Walmart on June 28. They had to have found a Walmart receipt with a date and time? What good is a surveillance tape from ANY store if you don't know who you're looking for?

It's just so odd to me that they would put BACK up yellow crime scene tape on the HOUSE the very day of the funeral, ONLY.

From the surveillance they THEN got JR , whose house was NOT raided until late August. The 24th I think? Both were arrested soon after.

:dunno: Just some thoughts. I don't have to like someone for them to be innocent :wink:

I am on my daughters phone, so no re-reading for me. If it is full of mistakes on grammar and/or spelling, I apologize

Can't wait for the doc dump, we will have dates to piece all the events together. When/why LSCO sought the Walmart surveillance, what they were doing back on the Jarvis the day of the funeral. IMO, I think LSCO kept a close eye on the funeral and something was off about CWW. However, SMS said when LCSO flew to MO initially, the trip was expected to be 3 days. This made me think the July 12 raid was the result of some big discovery in MO. JMO.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

The raid on CWW's house 6 days after the funeral also tells me that they had to find something in his house that led them to look at surveillance tape in THAT Fort Myers Florida, Walmart on June 28. They had to have found a Walmart receipt with a date and time? What good is a surveillance tape from ANY store if you don't know who you're looking for?

RSBM

Someone explained about Wal-Mart security a million threads ago... Wal-Mart security is much, much more sophisticated than just pulling a security tape. As I understand it, it probably went like this...

LE finds hammer, as an example, at the scene. There's a bar code on it. LE takes it to Wal-Mart, who confirms its their bar code sticker. Wal-Mart scans the bar code and pulls up a list of every hammer of that brand sold recently. One of those sales occurred near TS's home the day before the murder. Wal-Mart pulls the details of that sale, if it was paid by credit card those details are pulled, giving LE his name. They match the time and location/register of the sale to their security tapes and gives LE a pic of the buyer. Wal-Mart had facial recognition software, so they can give LE video of the buyer as he walks through the store, as well as through the parking lot to his car, and video of the car from the moment it enters Wal-Mart property until the moment it leaves, probably with a nice beauty shot of the licence plate.

Even if they paid cash, by using facial recognition software Wal-Mart could tie that buyer to another sale where he did use a credit card and get his info that way... and tell LE what location he normally shops at to narrow down his home location.

So by choosing to shop at Wal-Mart, CWW and JR gave LE a red carpet right to their door.

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[Riversinthedesert]

I get hung up HERE, every single time. I keep finding myself going BACK to these few known "Facts"
TS was found murdered on Monday morning June 29th.
Her home on Jarvis Road is yellow taped off from the public from June 29 until the 3rd of July. (5 days) BUT yellow crime tape is put back up for one day.

Her funeral is held on Monday July 6.

No its Not's great sleuthing skills remembered that the yellow tape was put back up on July 6, the SAME day of the funeral
Video ~ Compliments go to No its Not for posting this. Go to 2:16

[video=youtube;T4EZOCpYxN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4EZOCpYxN4[/video]

Now, here is what is driving me crazy. One more FACT before I start with the What If's. CWW's house was raided on Sunday, July 12 at 6am. 6 days AFTER the funeral.

It tells me/us that LE was on to him pretty quickly. What if MS is totally innocent, and knew WW hated TS? Was she going to fire him or turn him in for something, that MS possibly MAY have inadvertently told CWW about? etc.
There are endless possibilities here.

Did LE already suspect CWW, when they attended her funeral? Was that a setup made between LE and MS? Did they have Mark call CWW and invite him to the funeral? Have him meet at the Siever house to get fingerprints to match latent fingerprints? Did they need for CWW to drink from a glass? Endless possibilities here.

The raid on CWW's house 6 days after the funeral also tells me that they had to find something in his house that led them to look at surveillance tape in THAT Fort Myers Florida, Walmart on June 28. They had to have found a Walmart receipt with a date and time? What good is a surveillance tape from ANY store if you don't know who you're looking for?

It's just so odd to me that they would put BACK up yellow crime scene tape on the HOUSE the very day of the funeral, ONLY.

From the surveillance they THEN got JR , whose house was NOT raided until late August. The 24th I think? Both were arrested soon after.

:dunno: Just some thoughts. I don't have to like someone for them to be innocent :wink:

I am on my daughters phone, so no re-reading for me. If it is full of mistakes on grammar and/or spelling, I apologize

Dmacky, maybe the reason for crime tape the day of the funeral was as simple as keeping any potential visitors out of the home (especially if any of them were potential suspects). Could have been family/friends/neighbors/deliveries arriving at the house and the tape would keep everyone out.

 

[creepingskills]

Dmacky, maybe the reason for crime tape the day of the funeral was as simple as keeping any potential visitors out of the home (especially if any of them were potential suspects). Could have been family/friends/neighbors/deliveries arriving at the house and the tape would keep everyone out.

Good point. Flower deliveries, family/friends/murderer in town.

 

[Chelly]

I often wonder if after a murder of this sort, LE checking WM surveillance is SOP these days. whether or not a WM connection clue is left at scene.

 

[Riversinthedesert]

Good point. Flower deliveries, family/friends/murderer in town. [\QUOTE]

Excellent cs!

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I get hung up HERE, every single time. I keep finding myself going BACK to these few known "Facts"
TS was found murdered on Monday morning June 29th.
Her home on Jarvis Road is yellow taped off from the public from June 29 until the 3rd of July. (5 days) BUT yellow crime tape is put back up for one day.

Her funeral is held on Monday July 6.

No its Not's great sleuthing skills remembered that the yellow tape was put back up on July 6, the SAME day of the funeral
Video ~ Compliments go to No its Not for posting this. Go to 2:16

[video=youtube;T4EZOCpYxN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4EZOCpYxN4[/video]

Now, here is what is driving me crazy. One more FACT before I start with the What If's. CWW's house was raided on Sunday, July 12 at 6am. 6 days AFTER the funeral.

It tells me/us that LE was on to him pretty quickly. What if MS is totally innocent, and knew WW hated TS? Was she going to fire him or turn him in for something, that MS possibly MAY have inadvertently told CWW about? etc.
There are endless possibilities here.

Did LE already suspect CWW, when they attended her funeral? Was that a setup made between LE and MS? Did they have Mark call CWW and invite him to the funeral? Have him meet at the Siever house to get fingerprints to match latent fingerprints? Did they need for CWW to drink from a glass? Endless possibilities here.

The raid on CWW's house 6 days after the funeral also tells me that they had to find something in his house that led them to look at surveillance tape in THAT Fort Myers Florida, Walmart on June 28. They had to have found a Walmart receipt with a date and time? What good is a surveillance tape from ANY store if you don't know who you're looking for?

It's just so odd to me that they would put BACK up yellow crime scene tape on the HOUSE the very day of the funeral, ONLY.

From the surveillance they THEN got JR , whose house was NOT raided until late August. The 24th I think? Both were arrested soon after.

:dunno: Just some thoughts. I don't have to like someone for them to be innocent :wink:

I am on my daughters phone, so no re-reading for me. If it is full of mistakes on grammar and/or spelling, I apologize

One thing I would really like to know and maybe it's already been mentioned. But when did CWW show up in FL after TS was murdered? Did he immediately insert himself into the investigation under the guise of caring best friend?

IMO, either some of the evidence collected was processed prior to the funeral causing LE to take another look at the house.

or

They had already focused on MS and friends. Within that first week MS had setup a page with an insane goal and it's possible that LE had already meant Mark's double, his BFF since forever. Maybe they secured additional warrants because he was now a POI. Perhaps entering the home during the funeral was strategic. Heck, maybe they were looking for something specific and hoped to make an arrest before CWW returned home.

 

[LvsAMystry]

IMO it does seem LE had CWW in their sights almost right away and I still wonder how they got to the home as in where did they leave a vehicle because they certainly didn't park out front. Was it at the dog park and that's why there was interest there? They parked somewhere in the vicinity so could the tie have been something as simple as an alert person having noticed a MO plate parked somewhere near that night and reporting it

 

[No it's not]

JR and CWW's prints and DNA should have been in the system. LE didn't need CWW to drive down to FL for his prints.

Unless, they did not find fingerprints, but (a)partial palm print(s) for example or a few Foot/ Boot/ Shoe prints. Sheriff Mike Scott emphasized that they - the perps- were very good not leaving evidence behind, but not good enough.
MS and family members checked the alarm system over the 4th of July weekend. If CWW was in town by then, I am sure he offered his assistance in checking it out due to his professional knowledge in the field of home security applications. And if that happened, LE would have been right there watching them all. Then on Monday the crime tape went back up. Hmm

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

Dmacky, maybe the reason for crime tape the day of the funeral was as simple as keeping any potential visitors out of the home (especially if any of them were potential suspects). Could have been family/friends/neighbors/deliveries arriving at the house and the tape would keep everyone out.

That does not make sense to me, as the crime scene had been released and the house had been cleaned over the weekend. I think it is the opposite, clean house and new old evidence! Cool!:happydance:

-Nin

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Unless, they did not find fingerprints, but (a)partial palm print(s) for example or a few Foot/ Boot/ Shoe prints. Sheriff Mike Scott emphasized that they - the perps- were very good not leaving evidence behind, but not good enough.
MS and family members checked the alarm system over the 4th of July weekend. If CWW was in town by then, I am sure he offered his assistance in checking it out due to his professional knowledge in the field of home security applications. And if that happened, LE would have been right there watching them all. Then on Monday the crime tape went back up. Hmm

-Nin

I wasn't suggesting that they did leave behind prints or DNA. If they had I'm sure the arrests would have been immediate. My point was that CWW's prints were already in the system and that LE didn't need MS to invite CWW to the funeral in order to get them.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think CWW'S wife put 2 and 2 together and told LE from the beginning that Cww was not at home that weekend and he may have been involved.

I only say this because 2 of her daughters passed so I doubt she would take the killing of her brother in law's wife lightly. Especially if hubby (cww) was strangely out of town on that weekend with his buddy jr.

Now maybe LE cuffed her during the home search to make it seem more believable. Because unless there was emails or a diary or a witness; How else would they have been able to secure a search warrant for a residents in another state. Just speculating of course.

 

[1&2&3]

Do we know if MS was in the Jarvis Road home with CWW while he was in town for the funeral?

If so, bet that was an awkward feeling for CWW and MS if he is also involved!

 

[mckazpm]

Do we know if MS was in the Jarvis Road home with CWW while he was in town for the funeral?

If so, bet that was an awkward feeling for CWW and MS if he is also involved!

I cannot say this as 100% accurate, but there was not much activity at that house at all. There were no vehicles at the home the day of the funeral...that were seen.

Also, I learned over the weekend that the dents in the back of the van were there well in advance (over a year) of the murder. We can scratch that from our speculation of theories.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I cannot say this as 100% accurate, but there was not much activity at that house at all. There were no vehicles at the home the day of the funeral...that were seen.

Also, I learned over the weekend that the dents in the back of the van were there well in advance (over a year) of the murder. We can scratch that from our speculation of theories.

Interesting, I wonder why MS didn't have the dents repaired?

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Interesting, I wonder why MS didn't have the dents repaired?

If it's an older car it may not be worth repairing.

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[FightTheOstrich]

If it's an older car it may not be worth repairing.

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Idk, I know minivans don't have great resale value but from a trade-in/resale perspective it's not a wise choice.

Did he take the insurance money for repairs and spend it on something else because he knew he'd be driving the Mercedes soon anyway?

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Idk, I know minivans don't have great resale value but from a trade-in/resale perspective it's not a wise choice.

Did he take the insurance money for repairs and spend it on something else because he knew he'd be driving the Mercedes soon anyway?

Lol... just speaking as someone who has an older minivan with a dent in the rear bumper! Not worth spending the deductible to fix it.


ETA wouldn't be much money after the deductible.

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[PeskySlueth]

I drove by the house yesterday. I felt so uncomfortable. There is a HUGE sign that says No Criminals Allowed and Trespassers will be prosecuted - just for driving down the street! I was surprised how there house was almost at the beginning of the street . For some reason i thought it was hidden in. Lovely street.