The Crime Scene and Investigation

[CoolJ]

This is hilarious. I thought Sheriff said they covered their tracks very well... Nobody sees the twist yet?

 

[beach]

This is hilarious. I thought Sheriff said they covered their tracks very well... Nobody sees the twist yet?

I'm not sure what twist you're referencing. :thinking:

To be fair, SMS made that comment about them trying to cover their tracks well, pretty early in the investigation. No, he never said they did cover their tracks well, he said they tried. I guess he could've added they failed miserably. He also mentioned they left a trail of digital footprints. So, considering the time frame, we know that by that time (July 1st) LE had downloaded the contents of Mark's primary cell phone and very soon after they had recovered the GPS data from both rental cars. I guess that was the goldmine of digital footprints he was referencing. Plus, he knew from the contents of what he already had that there were burner phones still to be found (or at least the #'s associated with each burner phone) and contents to be subpoenaed.

It takes a while for all these companies to compile the data and return it to LE. If we look at the dates when LE finally received what little we do have now, they haven't had the hard data that long. Hindsight is enlightening.

So, I believe when SMS said that they tried to cover their tracks, he knew about all the digital footprints (particularly phone & GPS) that left a trail from Hillsboro, MO to Bonita Springs, FL, Ft. Myers, FL, BACK to Missouri and yet BACK AGAIN to Bonita Springs.

 

[irishchook]

Not sure. Staging as intentional efforts (plural) to "change the environment before and after committing the homicide". The detectives do not provide the option of "before or after" and therefore differentiate between areas (and efforts) of staging.

So, what is the "before" other than the broken-in side door? Turning off the alarm would not be staging but a necessity to get into the house later to ambush the victim.

Perhaps they classify the "overkill" break-in with the crowbar- that was later discovered inside the MS motorcycle saddle bag - as staging? That door was not dead-bolted and could have been opened much more inconspicuously.

Wait a second, they purchased the lock picks at Walmart! Perhaps that's how they got in at around 6am in the morning!! If they went trough the main entry door they would have had for sure a delay of 30-45 seconds+ to disarm the system!!! After the homicide they staged the break-in through the side door!

Question remains, why was the garage side-door not dead-bolted being located so out of view behind an 8 feet fence?



Bates #54

Sorry for the late response. However, I still think they went through the backyard (via a neighbor's yard) and entered the house through the lanai with the lock-pick. IMO

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[irishchook]

i posed this question a couple of days ago and was referred to the video below
However:
the video doesn't answer the question
in my opinion, Teresa's mother is just relaying the information she was told by MS
jmo

from the video:

Teresa's mom: "The phone rings, and it's the office calling...where's doctor? she's not here yet - and so Mark says well geez, it's nine-thirty she should be there by now."

Trent Kelly: "She (Teresa's mother) says Mark then called a friend to go check on their Bonita Springs home, where a bloody crime scene was discovered."

I truly am afraid of this going down as circumstantial.
Let's hope and pray that justice will prevail.

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[irishchook]

I'm not sure what twist you're referencing. :thinking:

To be fair, SMS made that comment about them trying to cover their tracks well, pretty early in the investigation. No, he never said they did cover their tracks well, he said they tried. I guess he could've added they failed miserably. He also mentioned they left a trail of digital footprints. So, considering the time frame, we know that by that time (July 1st) LE had downloaded the contents of Mark's primary cell phone and very soon after they had recovered the GPS data from both rental cars. I guess that was the goldmine of digital footprints he was referencing. Plus, he knew from the contents of what he already had that there were burner phones still to be found (or at least the #'s associated with each burner phone) and contents to be subpoenaed.

It takes a while for all these companies to compile the data and return it to LE. If we look at the dates when LE finally received what little we do have now, they haven't had the hard data that long. Hindsight is enlightening.

So, I believe when SMS said that they tried to cover their tracks, he knew about all the digital footprints (particularly phone & GPS) that left a trail from Hillsboro, MO to Bonita Springs, FL, Ft. Myers, FL, BACK to Missouri and yet BACK AGAIN to Bonita Springs.

Beach, from your reply to CJ, I get an uneasy sense that you are a bit worried about the evidence that will be presented to the jury.
Then again, I'm not an Intuologist.

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[beach]

Beach, from your reply to CJ, I get an uneasy sense that you are a bit worried about the evidence that will be presented to the jury.
Then again, I'm not an Intuologist.

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No, I don't feel that way at all.

I'll be glad to clarify later. My internet has been down since I posted that. I'm typing on my phone now and I hate it. lol

 

[Bobbywoo]

I truly am afraid of this going down as circumstantial.
Let's hope and pray that justice will prevail.

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I completely share your fear IC. I think in most of our minds it seams like a slam dunk, but when it gets in front of the jury and the lawyers weed out what is admissible and inadmissible the jury may not be as convinced. Hopefully LE has more hard evidence they haven't released yet.

 

[No it's not]

This article talks about the practical aspects of collecting evidence at a crime-scene in connection with legal implications:

'Practically speaking ANYTHING and EVERYTHING should be considered as evidence until proven differently. You can never go wrong in over collecting. I cannot recall how many times I that and my detectives returned to a crime scene. This circumstance usually occurred after we received additional information from friends and or family, which revealed that some seemingly innocuous item in the crime scene was actually an important piece of evidence. That is why it is imperative to "hold onto" the crime scene as long as possible. Some item, which didn't seem significant on the first day of the investigation, may suddenly take on the intrinsic value of gold.'

..

'A SEARCH WARRANT SHOULD BE SECURED BEFORE ANY CRIME SEARCH IS UNDERTAKEN UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES DESCRIBED ABOVE.
THERE IS NO "HOMICIDE SCENE EXCEPTION" TO THE 4TH AMENDMENT. Any EXTENDED SEARCH of a HOMICIDE SCENE, without consent or exigent circumstances requires a search warrant.'

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/articles/LegalCS.htm

That explains the yellow tape going back up on the day of the funeral in case additional evidence was located at or around the house on Jarvis Road.
LE may have gotten tipped off about something or they may have plan and additional search due to MS being observed discarding computers and computer peripherals (searching for possible additional internal/external hard drives?).

-Nin

 

[freekobe0832]

It's not like the home was tucked in some corner far from view...it's very visible and stands out on the street.

This is what makes me wonder if they walked to the house from the opposite side of Jarvis, the side away from Terry.

 

[SurfieTX]

I'm not sure which thread to post this in, but what year was the house built?

 

[KateB]

I'm not sure which thread to post this in, but what year was the house built?

Post #11 of this same thread has NIN's wonderful floor plan, builder's website, public property appraiser and building department records links.
A quick glance back at those, I can see the permit was issued and finalized, both in the 4th quarter of 2006.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ene-and-Investigation&p=12035979#post12035979
Originally posted 7/29/2015 and copied forward.

 

[Legally Bland]

JN: Was -- I mean -- was she -- when -- I don't know how -- I don't know how well you know her, and know her habits. That's what I'm trying to work out. Would she have left her bag on the garage floor when she exited the vehicle?
MP: I thought that was weird.
JN: Okay.And--
MP: Now, uh, so the bag' exactly where it's at, uh, one of the paramedics, uh, had moved it when they had
come in because they came in, you know, their kits and everything like that --
JN: Okay.
MP: -- and I told them that she was dead. And, uh, one of them moved the bag further to the left of the
propped up -- of the doorway.
JN: Okay. So -- was--was it standing up?
MP: I -- I -- I don't think SO because I didn't move it or -- I just stepped -- there was a bunch of crap on the -- uh, I'm sorry --
JN: It's all right.
MP: -- things on the garage floor. And I just stepped right over it.
JN: There was a plastic bag with, uh -- (phone ringing).
MP: Well, this is her husband. Should I answer this or not?
JN: Not yet.
MP: Okay.
JN: No.
MP: Go ahead
JN: Uh, this plastic bag' with something that looks like makeup?
MP: Okay.
JN.. Ziploc baggie.
MP: Okay-
JN: Was that moved, do you know, by the paramedics?
MP: That l don't know.
JN: Okay.
MP: I didn't notice it.


#5289, #5290

Am I right in thinking TS was most likely initially engaged in the garage, then moved inside?

 

[Russian Blue]

Am I right in thinking TS was most likely initially engaged in the garage, then moved inside?

I think the description of the crime scene through MP's recounting would lead us to believe that. I am just going to keep in mind at this point that LE has said the scene was staged. So where that begins and ends is unclear at this point.

Did they (the murderers) want it to look like it was started in the garage?

Or, were they already in the house, because they had access from the security code, but wanted it to look like someone really broke in and got her when she arrived, hence the door made to look like they had broken in there?

More random looking.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I think the description of the crime scene through MP's recounting would lead us to believe that. I am just going to keep in mind at this point that LE has said the scene was staged. So where that begins and ends is unclear at this point.

Did they (the murderers) want it to look like it was started in the garage?

Or, were they already in the house, because they had access from the security code, but wanted it to look like someone really broke in and got her when she arrived, hence the door made to look like they had broken in there?

More random looking.

Excellent points!

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[Dmacky]

I think the description of the crime scene through MP's recounting would lead us to believe that. I am just going to keep in mind at this point that LE has said the scene was staged. So where that begins and ends is unclear at this point.

Did they (the murderers) want it to look like it was started in the garage?

Or, were they already in the house, because they had access from the security code, but wanted it to look like someone really broke in and got her when she arrived, hence the door made to look like they had broken in there?

More random looking.

I don't know, the reason I DO think it started in the garage...bear with me, it's hard for me to say....*but there was talk somewhere in the Doc's about some kind of DNA matter on the freezer and IIRC the freezer was in the garage. :cry:

* Please correct if I'm wrong on this, I am on my daughters phone and can't re-read it right now. I really HOPE I read it wrong.

 

[dmac55]

I don't know, the reason I DO think it started in the garage...bear with me, it's hard for me to say....*but there was talk somewhere in the Doc's about brain matter on the freezer and IIRC the freezer was in the garage. :cry:

* Please correct if I'm wrong on this, I am on my daughters phone and can't re-read it right now. I really HOPE I read it wrong.

you are correct

Bates#2
Scene Observations:

As you move forward through the garage, the entrance to the laundry room is straight ahead. Just before the entrance, it is evident the decedent's luggage was manipulated as there were several bags near the door and later found to have been rummaged through. There were also personal accessories to include a hairbrush, travel kit and protein cup on a rectangular storage freezer adjacent to the doorway. When examined closer, you can see obvious biological matter to the right of the freezer which was later confirmed to have been the decedent's blood.

 

[atthelake]

I don't know, the reason I DO think it started in the garage...bear with me, it's hard for me to say....*but there was talk somewhere in the Doc's about brain matter on the freezer and IIRC the freezer was in the garage. :cry:

* Please correct if I'm wrong on this, I am on my daughters phone and can't re-read it right now. I really HOPE I read it wrong.

Iirc it was her blood that was found to the right of the freezer. I'm not sure where the freezer was ( to the left of the right of the garage door?) but it could have been from gloves and a transfer?

If I recall correctly it didn't say anything about brain matter out in the garage, only blood ? I don't recall seeing in anything about brain matter in the garage.

:crying: that we know her family is reading all that we post

 

[No it's not]

Iirc it was her blood that was found to the right of the freezer. I'm not sure where the freezer was ( to the left of the right of the garage door?) but it could have been from gloves and a transfer?

If I recall correctly it didn't say anything about brain matter out in the garage, only blood ? I don't recall seeing in anything about brain matter in the garage.

:crying: that we know her family is reading all that we post

The freezer is in the garage to the right of the Utility door:

-Nin

 

[beach]

you are correct

Bates#2
Scene Observations:

As you move forward through the garage, the entrance to the laundry room is straight ahead. Just before the entrance, it is evident the decedent's luggage was manipulated as there were several bags near the door and later found to have been rummaged through. There were also personal accessories to include a hairbrush, travel kit and protein cup on a rectangular storage freezer adjacent to the doorway. When examined closer, you can see obvious biological matter to the right of the freezer which was later confirmed to have been the decedent's blood.

I tend to think she unloaded her suitcase, purse, etc from the van......As she unlocked the interior garage door to enter the home she probably just left her suitcase sitting in the garage, planning on coming back to retrieve it. Her purse was found on the kitchen countertop. I know how I operate and I would have put everything down except my purse & keys when unlocking the door, then put those down in the kitchen while greeting my dogs. Then I would have gone back into the garage and grabbed my luggage. I think she got ambushed and was attacked immediately upon entering the kitchen and never made it back to the garage.

The blood on the garage freezer was probably transferred by CWW and/or JR, IMO.

 

[Helper9693]

We'll never know if MS told TS that night... not to worry about the alarm being off ...because BS "couldn't get it armed" that afternoon.