The December 23 party

[PositiveLight]

PL, the boy who was supposedly under the porch with BR was his friend Evan, who Patsy also blamed the unflushed toilet in the basement on.


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Oh yes!
Thank you! Poor Evan! took the blame for everything.
I just remembered something someone on the threads mentioned but not sure if it was ever confirmed. Did DS spend the night with BR christmas night and rode home on his bike in the early hours? Not sure if that was a possibility, truth or theory. BUT after thinking about what could have occurred on the 23rd.... it could have possibly been repeated that night which led to her death? Curious! Does anyone have any info on that? Wasn't bike marks in the frost or something that morning? How far did the Stines live from the Ramsey's?

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

DS staying the night and biking home is a theory, I think one of BlueCrab's. There may be truth to bike tracks being found in the snow/frost but I can't recall. I think it was connected to the idea that the last stop the Ramseys were SUPPOSED to make that night was the Stines', but according to them they didn't bother because supposedly their house was too far away. But supposing they did stop they could have picked up DS for an impromptu sleepover and...etc. If he left in panic the next morning of course no one would mention it.

Personally I mostly discount it (they were going to drop DS back at home before rushing off to catch their flight to MI that morning?) but it IS a fantastic explanation for Susan Stine's over-involvement if true. However, that would indicate she was involved from almost day one, so I doubt she'd mention that disturbing convo between BR and DS about JB being strangled to another person and express concern about it.



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[PositiveLight]

DS staying the night and biking home is a theory, I think one of BlueCrab's. There may be truth to bike tracks being found in the snow/frost but I can't recall. I think it was connected to the idea that the last stop the Ramseys were SUPPOSED to make that night was the Stines', but according to them they didn't bother because supposedly their house was too far away. But supposing they did stop they could have picked up DS for an impromptu sleepover and...etc. If he left in panic the next morning of course no one would mention it.

Personally I mostly discount it (they were going to drop DS back at home before rushing off to catch their flight to MI that morning?) but it IS a fantastic explanation for Susan Stine's over-involvement if true. However, that would indicate she was involved from almost day one, so I doubt she'd mention that disturbing convo between BR and DS about JB being strangled to another person and express concern about it.



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It probably is just a theory.
But it would explain a lot. Is it possible that the whole reason SS mentioned the convo between the boys to someone else was to divert attention from her own son? When in reality they could have been discussing the crime and what they did. I could see a scenario when DS was sent off on his bike for his parents to pick him up down the street to get him away from the crime scene so they could do the staging.
IF the boys had previously attacked her on the 23rd and maybe at other times before then, they wanted to get revenge on her for telling on them. Maybe the boys got into serious trouble over it too. Payback for them getting in trouble. There's a damn good reason SS remains at the family's side and DS is still close to BR. They share in the murder and cover up of JonBenet. Was the Stine's at the White's dinner too? If so, it's quite possible the vaginal injury occurred at their party. Maybe that's why JonBenet wasn't feeling good? JMOO and curious.

ETA: don't forget JR's cell phone was wiped clean of phone calls. No telling who he called during those hours.

 

[PositiveLight]

I've been trying to find Blue Crab's theory. I have been unable to so far. Can anyone link me to it so I can read it please?

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

It probably is just a theory.
But it would explain a lot. Is it possible that the whole reason SS mentioned the convo between the boys to someone else was to divert attention from her own son? When in reality they could have been discussing the crime and what they did. I could see a scenario when DS was sent off on his bike for his parents to pick him up down the street to get him away from the crime scene so they could do the staging.
IF the boys had previously attacked her on the 23rd and maybe at other times before then, they wanted to get revenge on her for telling on them. Maybe the boys got into serious trouble over it too. Payback for them getting in trouble. There's a damn good reason SS remains at the family's side and DS is still close to BR. They share in the murder and cover up of JonBenet. Was the Stine's at the White's dinner too? If so, it's quite possible the vaginal injury occurred at their party. Maybe that's why JonBenet wasn't feeling good? JMOO and curious.

ETA: don't forget JR's cell phone was wiped clean of phone calls. No telling who he called during those hours.

My guess would be the Stines weren't there since the Ramseys were planning on stopping at their house after being at the Whites. And supposedly the Stines weren't even good friends with the Ramseys at that point. Seriously, how did they suddenly become bosom buddies after the murder!? And if you'll recall, SS was the link between the Rs and the notorious Jameson mere months after the murder. Jameson is just... idk how she even fits into this. And how did SS find her so quickly!?

I know there was a theory, not sure if it was BC's or not, that JB sustained her head injury at the Stines' and that's how they became involved. Fwiw.


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[singularity]

I've been trying to find Blue Crab's theory. I have been unable to so far. Can anyone link me to it so I can read it please?

I don't know if there's one single post that contains the entire theory. It was fairly elaborate and evolved over time. Most of the active members do not have a one post theory in the members theories threads. I don't have one either and cant imagine doing one. Too much evidence missing that could change the whole dynamic of the case...as we just witnesssed with these latest pics that surfaced.

Here's a BLuecrab thread I read not too long ago when searching for info on that babysitter.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...l-Foreign-Faction-quot-Was-Never-Investigated

 

[Heymom]

Here's what it says in DOI, pb, pg 101 (and this is all the Rs say about it.)

During the party Fleet White used our phone to make a series of calls, trying to get some medicine to his mother in a hospital in Aspen, Colorado. Apparently he dialed wrong and got 911. The police called back, but after checking with Fleet and the rest of the people in the house, Susan Stine informed them that the call was a mistake. The 911 call remains somewhat of a mystery.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-911-phone-call-during-the-party-on-the-23rd

This is probably one place that I saw something about FW having made that call on the 23rd. Later on, it is said that his mother was really out partying somewhere and there would have been no need to make a phone call about her medication.

Sounds like quote is the Ramsey's version. I don't know if FW actually said it at all but maybe he did. But if FW made the mistaken phone call, then he would have been right there beside the phone when 911 rang back to see if everything was ok. Instead, they only got voice mail and had to send someone out to the house.

To me, whether someone called 911 by mistake or not, they would have picked up the phone when it rang a few seconds later. That's normal. What happened is not normal. What happened is that no one answered it, the call went on to voice mail and still no one answered it, and then the pit bull, Susan Stine made up a story to tell the police to make them go away.

To me it could have been a cry for help. Then that cry was further stifled by someone who wouldn't allow the person (child?) to answer the phone when it rang again seconds later. Then a discussion was had about whatever happened and what to do about it. Susan Stine was appointed spokesperson who would tell the story/lie that would get rid of the police. (I'm sorry I called her Linda before; it's Susan.)

But it's suspicious to me, that strange 911 call two nights before the murder. First the 911 call, then no answer when the 911 operator picked up, no answer when the operator called back, and a probably lie when the police arrived. Apparently Susan Stine didn't even answer the door! She told the police through a speaker that everything was fine. (in other words--don't come in here. Go away.)

How is it a "mystery" when they've just explained it? You can't have it both ways. Either you don't know what happened, and it's a "mystery," or FW did it and it's not a mystery but a mistake. The White family sure took a lot of hits on various levels from the Ramseys - some way to treat your supposed best friends, eh? With friends like that...

 

[kanzz]

Oh yes!
Thank you! Poor Evan! took the blame for everything.
I just remembered something someone on the threads mentioned but not sure if it was ever confirmed. Did DS spend the night with BR christmas night and rode home on his bike in the early hours? Not sure if that was a possibility, truth or theory. BUT after thinking about what could have occurred on the 23rd.... it could have possibly been repeated that night which led to her death? Curious! Does anyone have any info on that? Wasn't bike marks in the frost or something that morning? How far did the Stines live from the Ramsey's?

As DFF said, it's just a theory. And here's why I don't buy it - if DS truly had been there that night, this whole thing would have gone a different direction. PR would have thrown him under the bus in a heartbeat, imo.

ETA: It's also important to keep in mind what Tricia posted:
[ http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...se-when-JonBenet-Died&p=12797134#post12797134 ]

Open for Discussion/ The 3 People in the House when JonBenet Died

Dear Websleuths Members,

Our rules at Websleuths are rarely black and white. Many time we have to adjust rules for certain forums.

One rule we do our best to follow is who is allowed to be discussed when it comes to the particular crime committed.

We discuss possible perpetrators based on the mainstream media and police reports.

We do not allow posters to drag innocent people into a discussion and accuse them of a crime.

Because of this rule, we only discuss John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey in this forum.

Those three people have not been cleared by the police and the current District Attorney.

There is nothing to suggest an intruder. The DNA is a red herring. Look at the note, the pineapple, all the evidence in the house, the behavior of the three people in the house, look at all these things. Until all of these things can be explained and logical evidence is offered to show an intruder we will not allow innocent people to be discussed as the possible killer. Just like any other forum on Websleuths.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com​

 

[CoreyRocks]

Interesting, write - do you have a source for BR and DS still being friends? I wouldn't be at all surprised but I've never heard that before. The Ramsey-Stine relationship is incredibly puzzling.

JAR and DS are FB friends. Does that mean anything?

 

[write]

As for Doug Stine and Burke remaining friends after all these years, I read that somewhere last night. Sometimes you just keep prowling around, reading, and you don't even know where you read it. Anyway I don't know how reliable it was. But someone on some site was saying that on facebook you could see that Burke was friends with Doug Stine and that Burke was replying to people, saying how much he missed his sister and what a sweet angel she was, thank you for your sympathy, etc. I think the post was from around 2012-14 so I didn't even bother checking FB to see if he's still there. It's not a truly reliable source but the person told people to go on FB and see for themselves. But I think there is something to the Stines getting so close to the Ramseys after the murder. BTW, apparently the Stines were not at the Whites' Christmas party but the Ramseys did stop by their house afterward to drop off presents. They were supposed to go to one more house but went home instead, if that means anything.

 

[Scandigirl]

Hi everyone, as I said on another thread, I've been reading through Blue Crab's posts, to try to understand what reasons he had for always being staunchly BDI back in 2004, way before all the recent CBD revelations. (I know many other posters were BDI back then, too).

I agree with singularity, that it's difficult to link a specific thread, as BC posted randomly, and his ideas evolved over time. I've dismissed his most "out there" ideas, such as the stun gun, but some of his other ideas do explain certain things and make some sense- it certainly makes you think. He was convinced that BDI with at least one other boy/child, and maybe even a teenager. He worried that an older teenager may have slipped unnoticed through the net, but wasn't sure. He did seem certain, however, that DS was involved, with BR. Could they maybe have been the "two people" in PR's quote?

BC's idea was that BR was up in the middle of the night, eating pineapple and waiting to let DS in and out of the house. His "evidence" of this "fifth person" was the fact that the outside security lights were turned off for the first time in years, the bike tracks leading away from the house, and even the two drink cans left in BR's bathroom sink. He also thought it explained SS's odd behaviour and closeness to the Ramseys after the killing.

BC even thought that JR and PR might not actually know which boy did what that night.

BC argued that the GJ knew both BR and DS were involved, and that there had been a legal coverup to protect them, as they were both under aged and could not be named or identified. His argument was to raise a fair question: as BR claimed to have been asleep that night, and saw and heard nothing, what did the GJ find to intensely question both him and DS about, for apparently over 5 hours?

I've no idea if there is any real truth in any of this. Some people wondered if BC had inside knowledge from somewhere. Although very interesting, and it does tie in to some aspects, I dismiss it, due to the fact that surely, if any fifth person was possibly involved at all in any way, other than JR, PR and BR, it would have come out by now. As far as I know, none of the well-known experts have ever spoken in any way of including a fifth person, whether DS or anyone else.

UkGuy had some good discussions with BC, and I'd be interested to know what he makes of any of BC's ideas now, in light of the recent BR media storm.

Anyway, just thought if I can't easily provide a link, this might at least explain some of BC's ideas regarding DS and SS.

 

[Heymom]

Hi everyone, as I said on another thread, I've been reading through Blue Crab's posts, to try to understand what reasons he had for always being staunchly BDI back in 2004, way before all the recent CBD revelations. (I know many other posters were BDI back then, too).

I agree with singularity, that it's difficult to link a specific thread, as BC posted randomly, and his ideas evolved over time. I've dismissed his most "out there" ideas, such as the stun gun, but some of his other ideas do explain certain things and make some sense- it certainly makes you think. He was convinced that BDI with at least one other boy/child, and maybe even a teenager. He worried that an older teenager may have slipped unnoticed through the net, but wasn't sure. He did seem certain, however, that DS was involved, with BR. Could they maybe have been the "two people" in PR's quote?

BC's idea was that BR was up in the middle of the night, eating pineapple and waiting to let DS in and out of the house. His "evidence" of this "fifth person" was the fact that the outside security lights were turned off for the first time in years, the bike tracks leading away from the house, and even the two drink cans left in BR's bathroom sink. He also thought it explained SS's odd behaviour and closeness to the Ramseys after the killing.

BC even thought that JR and PR might not actually know which boy did what that night.

BC argued that the GJ knew both BR and DS were involved, and that there had been a legal coverup to protect them, as they were both under aged and could not be named or identified. His argument was to raise a fair question: as BR claimed to have been asleep that night, and saw and heard nothing, what did the GJ find to intensely question both him and DS about, for apparently over 5 hours?

I've no idea if there is any real truth in any of this. Some people wondered if BC had inside knowledge from somewhere. Although very interesting, and it does tie in to some aspects, I dismiss it, due to the fact that surely, if any fifth person was possibly involved at all in any way, other than JR, PR and BR, it would have come out by now. As far as I know, none of the well-known experts have ever spoken in any way of including a fifth person, whether DS or anyone else.

UkGuy had some good discussions with BC, and I'd be interested to know what he makes of any of BC's ideas now, in light of the recent BR media storm.

Anyway, just thought if I can't easily provide a link, this might at least explain some of BC's ideas regarding DS and SS.

See the forum owner's message just above yours. We're supposed to stick to the 3 people left alive on the morning of 12/26 - John, Patsy and Burke Ramsey. Not draw in other innocent parties when there is ZERO evidence to support such theories. Maybe Blue Crab's insistence in promoting the theory that there was another person in the house that night is the reason he/she is no longer active on this forum?

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't know if there's one single post that contains the entire theory. It was fairly elaborate and evolved over time. Most of the active members do not have a one post theory in the members theories threads. I don't have one either and cant imagine doing one. Too much evidence missing that could change the whole dynamic of the case...as we just witnesssed with these latest pics that surfaced.

Here's a BLuecrab thread I read not too long ago when searching for info on that babysitter.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...l-Foreign-Faction-quot-Was-Never-Investigated

Thank you!
Good grief is it just me that's super over protective? I wouldn't let some other kid drive my daughter to school. JMOO but that's new to me.

 

[PositiveLight]

Hi everyone, as I said on another thread, I've been reading through Blue Crab's posts, to try to understand what reasons he had for always being staunchly BDI back in 2004, way before all the recent CBD revelations. (I know many other posters were BDI back then, too).

I agree with singularity, that it's difficult to link a specific thread, as BC posted randomly, and his ideas evolved over time. I've dismissed his most "out there" ideas, such as the stun gun, but some of his other ideas do explain certain things and make some sense- it certainly makes you think. He was convinced that BDI with at least one other boy/child, and maybe even a teenager. He worried that an older teenager may have slipped unnoticed through the net, but wasn't sure. He did seem certain, however, that DS was involved, with BR. Could they maybe have been the "two people" in PR's quote?

BC's idea was that BR was up in the middle of the night, eating pineapple and waiting to let DS in and out of the house. His "evidence" of this "fifth person" was the fact that the outside security lights were turned off for the first time in years, the bike tracks leading away from the house, and even the two drink cans left in BR's bathroom sink. He also thought it explained SS's odd behaviour and closeness to the Ramseys after the killing.

BC even thought that JR and PR might not actually know which boy did what that night.

BC argued that the GJ knew both BR and DS were involved, and that there had been a legal coverup to protect them, as they were both under aged and could not be named or identified. His argument was to raise a fair question: as BR claimed to have been asleep that night, and saw and heard nothing, what did the GJ find to intensely question both him and DS about, for apparently over 5 hours?

I've no idea if there is any real truth in any of this. Some people wondered if BC had inside knowledge from somewhere. Although very interesting, and it does tie in to some aspects, I dismiss it, due to the fact that surely, if any fifth person was possibly involved at all in any way, other than JR, PR and BR, it would have come out by now. As far as I know, none of the well-known experts have ever spoken in any way of including a fifth person, whether DS or anyone else.

UkGuy had some good discussions with BC, and I'd be interested to know what he makes of any of BC's ideas now, in light of the recent BR media storm.

Anyway, just thought if I can't easily provide a link, this might at least explain some of BC's ideas regarding DS and SS.

:tyou:

 

[zencompass]

When I came across BlueCrab's posts I was very impressed.

I was very impressed by his thinking "outside of the box", his intense investigations into certain aspects of the case but more importantly
it was evident in all of his posts that he cared deeply about little JonBenet and wanted answers and justice for her.

I only wish I had known BlueCrab. What a great contribution he made to these threads!

 

[Heymom]

As DFF said, it's just a theory. And here's why I don't buy it - if DS truly had been there that night, this whole thing would have gone a different direction. PR would have thrown him under the bus in a heartbeat, imo.

ETA: It's also important to keep in mind what Tricia posted:
[ http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...se-when-JonBenet-Died&p=12797134#post12797134 ]

Open for Discussion/ The 3 People in the House when JonBenet Died

Dear Websleuths Members,

Our rules at Websleuths are rarely black and white. Many time we have to adjust rules for certain forums.

One rule we do our best to follow is who is allowed to be discussed when it comes to the particular crime committed.

We discuss possible perpetrators based on the mainstream media and police reports.

We do not allow posters to drag innocent people into a discussion and accuse them of a crime.

Because of this rule, we only discuss John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey in this forum.

Those three people have not been cleared by the police and the current District Attorney.

There is nothing to suggest an intruder. The DNA is a red herring. Look at the note, the pineapple, all the evidence in the house, the behavior of the three people in the house, look at all these things. Until all of these things can be explained and logical evidence is offered to show an intruder we will not allow innocent people to be discussed as the possible killer. Just like any other forum on Websleuths.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com​

Just to emphasize....

 

[Scandigirl]

See the forum owner's message just above yours. We're supposed to stick to the 3 people left alive on the morning of 12/26 - John, Patsy and Burke Ramsey. Not draw in other innocent parties when there is ZERO evidence to support such theories. Maybe Blue Crab's insistence in promoting the theory that there was another person in the house that night is the reason he/she is no longer active on this forum?

Heymom, thanks for your reply. Your response is a valid one, and I agree that it's not right to promote wild theories about people (as well as the fact it's against forum rules). I said in my previous post, that I had read Blue Crab's theories, as part of my process of exploring BDI in general, but that I rejected them, due to lack of evidence and also because there has never been anyone prominently involved with the case who has put anything similar forward in any public arena.

Commenting upon BC's ideas, or explaining them to others, is not the same, in my view at least, of accusing anyone of anything. They were interesting to read, due to the fact that they included ideas for explaining certain circumstantial things that many of us have wondered about, but they were from years ago, and people's theories and ideas have now evolved and moved on so much.

I joined in to help out PL and others, who had asked about BC's ideas, and were also discussing things related generally to some of the views he held. I've no idea why Blue Crab no longer posts here, but I assumed it might be due to old age, illness, or something else in his "real life".

If discussing posters like BC is promoting his ideas, then that's noted for in future. I agree that the 3 people to focus on are JR, PR and BR, as I did say in my previous post.

 

[UKGuy]

Hi everyone, as I said on another thread, I've been reading through Blue Crab's posts, to try to understand what reasons he had for always being staunchly BDI back in 2004, way before all the recent CBD revelations. (I know many other posters were BDI back then, too).

I agree with singularity, that it's difficult to link a specific thread, as BC posted randomly, and his ideas evolved over time. I've dismissed his most "out there" ideas, such as the stun gun, but some of his other ideas do explain certain things and make some sense- it certainly makes you think. He was convinced that BDI with at least one other boy/child, and maybe even a teenager. He worried that an older teenager may have slipped unnoticed through the net, but wasn't sure. He did seem certain, however, that DS was involved, with BR. Could they maybe have been the "two people" in PR's quote?

BC's idea was that BR was up in the middle of the night, eating pineapple and waiting to let DS in and out of the house. His "evidence" of this "fifth person" was the fact that the outside security lights were turned off for the first time in years, the bike tracks leading away from the house, and even the two drink cans left in BR's bathroom sink. He also thought it explained SS's odd behaviour and closeness to the Ramseys after the killing.

BC even thought that JR and PR might not actually know which boy did what that night.

BC argued that the GJ knew both BR and DS were involved, and that there had been a legal coverup to protect them, as they were both under aged and could not be named or identified. His argument was to raise a fair question: as BR claimed to have been asleep that night, and saw and heard nothing, what did the GJ find to intensely question both him and DS about, for apparently over 5 hours?

I've no idea if there is any real truth in any of this. Some people wondered if BC had inside knowledge from somewhere. Although very interesting, and it does tie in to some aspects, I dismiss it, due to the fact that surely, if any fifth person was possibly involved at all in any way, other than JR, PR and BR, it would have come out by now. As far as I know, none of the well-known experts have ever spoken in any way of including a fifth person, whether DS or anyone else.

UkGuy had some good discussions with BC, and I'd be interested to know what he makes of any of BC's ideas now, in light of the recent BR media storm.

Anyway, just thought if I can't easily provide a link, this might at least explain some of BC's ideas regarding DS and SS.

Scandigirl,
Its IDI promoters Tricia wants rid off, those Ramsey sympathisers that post nonsense and dumb denials.

Way back when BlueCrab was posting there was a ban on naming children as suspects, but that was circumvented with the use of initials, so you see BR and DS mentioned a lot.

Back then we were working our way through all the theories, and it was open season, e.g. IDI, Pedophile Rings, Familial Abuse, RDI, etc.

BlueCrab's BDI and its variations are really an alternative to Lou Smit's IDI theory since they mostly explain away the same evidence, i.e. broken window, suitcase, size-12's, sexual assault, bike tracks, drink cans etc.

BlueCrab's BDI with an accomplice is a reasonably consistent theory, but falls down as there is no forensic evidence linking an accomplice to BR.

After checking out JDI, BDI, PDI, and IDI. I rejected IDI outright and eventually came down in favor of BDI since it was the most consistent theory out of them all, both JDI and PDI have holes in them, whereas BDI really just had the age factor as a negative, it also explained why the parents would collaborate to stage a crime scene.

BlueCrab was the only person to select BDI, he did a great job outlining all the main suspects and generating theories.

It appeared he was convinced the case was BDI, particularly after the GJ etc.

With no new facts or material to work on he likely became bored and got on with his life.

.

 

[Heymom]

I guess people can find a way to account for what we see as anomalies in the case - things that aren't explained or that we don't have any good explanation for. But you have to be able to think clearly and realize that if the Ramseys could possibly have thrown someone else under the bus for JonBenet's death, they would have done it in an Atlanta minute. They tossed several close friends under the bus even before JonBenet's body was brought up from the basement. And they continued to toss people in front of the bus as they needed to, in order to keep the distractions flowing. No consciences about this. If anyone else had been in that house, we'd have heard about him immediately - why would they hide/protect a non-family member? No, they'd try like hell to pin the whole thing on him.

I tell you what - I'd sell some dear possessions to get access to those case files.

 

[PositiveLight]

I guess people can find a way to account for what we see as anomalies in the case - things that aren't explained or that we don't have any good explanation for. But you have to be able to think clearly and realize that if the Ramseys could possibly have thrown someone else under the bus for JonBenet's death, they would have done it in an Atlanta minute. They tossed several close friends under the bus even before JonBenet's body was brought up from the basement. And they continued to toss people in front of the bus as they needed to, in order to keep the distractions flowing. No consciences about this. If anyone else had been in that house, we'd have heard about him immediately - why would they hide/protect a non-family member? No, they'd try like hell to pin the whole thing on him.

I tell you what - I'd sell some dear possessions to get access to those case files.

You and me both!
I'd love to see the evidence!
One of the reasons I was curious about DS is because SS is such a fierce protector of the Ramsey's and really didn't get so close until after JonBenet's death from what I understand. I was theorizing that may be why she seems to have a dog in the fight. The Stines know where the skeletons are as someone else said. I think FW and PW do too. The Stine's however have never been thrown under the bus like the White's were. Why?
Unless both sets of parents have equally disturbing dirt on one another. They may stand together in that situation to protect the boys.
Who I want to really hear from is the White's. I think they have a huge story to tell and would be pivotal in solving the case.